Today, in my ongoing search for a knockabout motor, I drove a 2005 Alfa 156 Sportwagon with the 140 or 150hp 'Mjet' 1.9 diesel engine.
I really like them and the car itself was excellent - the best example of care I've seen in France - although the dealer couldn't show me a stamped service book, which is normal for here. It was, extremely unusually for here too, right on the money. It was turned in by its only previous owner at the local Mercedes dealer and traded out to another local firm.
It drove OK, everything worked fine and the seats seemed comfortable, if a bit high but I'm sure when I've driven this engine with a six-speed gearbox (which I dislike) it has been surprisingly smooth, powerful and quiet. But this one was very peaky, although fast when the turbo caught up, had no 'go' at all to speak off in fifth and sixth and to me sounded quite gruff right through the rev range. I was quite disappointed but is this what one should expect?
The computer, when I managed to squint at the read-out, was showing an average fuel consumption of around 44mpg.
It has just had a cambelt and water pump, as they do, but does anyone think it perhaps needs expert tuning or something? A few recent bills don't spell service history to me, but a once-in-a-lifetime oil change just before sale isn't unusual in this part of the world.
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No go in higher gears would equate, in Ford TDCi terms, to leaking intercooler pipes.
Might be worth having a poke around under the bonnet to see if all the hose clips are tight or if there are any obvious splits.
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Thanks for that - trouble is, the whole engine is covered with one of those plastic things.
Here it is anyway...
www.leboncoin.fr/voitures/311916913.htm?ca=14_s
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Sounds a good car MH but gruffness and breathlessness could indicate problems. What you really need is to run it past an Alfa expert you can trust.
I know it's a different machine but my daughter had a petrol 147 that drove beautifully and went well but couldn't be cured of drinking oil and displaying warning lights. Everyone liked it as a car but it wasn't very good for a busy car-trashing young mother.
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You should be able to see the intercooler itself. The bottom third of mine had a crust of oil that had escaped through the multiple tiny fatigue tears in the pipes.
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...trouble is, the whole engine is covered with one of those plastic things...
Taking the dustbin lid off the top of the engine shouldn't be too difficult.
Underneath you'll see lots of oily bits, most of which you will recognise.
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Think you answered your own question Mike, you've driven other models with this engine which appeared to be smooth, powerful and quiet....this one appears to be none of those things.
I'd want a Diesel specialist to cast his eye expertise and box of tricks over this if i was still interested.
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I have not driven a Fiat Multijet of that vintage so I don't know. Some Diesels have a lot of lag and very narrow powerbands so it might just be a characteristic of this engine. If you are not happy with the car walk away, especially if it doesn't meet your previous experience of the motor. If it is more grunt you want they did do a 2.4 five pot :)
Last edited by: mattbod on Thu 10 May 12 at 18:53
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you sure your previous drive wasn't the JTD engine?
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If you had Lud's sort of money, you could afford one of these:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201218467474098/
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Hmmm. I think I prefer a low profile...
Having said that, partly deliberately when I went to drive the Alfa today I took the Beast (because the sun was shining) and the guy nearly licked my boots! I think he realised that, mostly, I know what I'm talking about.
It's very difficult isn't it - there's a Fiat/Alfa dealer just up the road but I can't very well take the car there and get him to give an opinion. He knows me anyway - he personally owns a really nice Lancia Beta HPE that he inherited from a customer and he has refused twice to sell it to me!
As we (Brits) say in France, 'je reflechi'...
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The cam-belt change.... Sounds as if it could be a mis-timed engine. Just a thought.
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If it's the 1.9 Diesel isn't that the generic GM engine that's known to have host of troubles? Like a cheap French wine - best avoided.
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Funny how we've been hypnotized by the Italians.......we've been looking at Moto Guzzi bikes here - ideal for the female frame, fine handling, beautifully designed - a bike for the heart and then you start thinking.............
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>>we've been looking at Moto Guzzi bikes here
I never felt comfortable with the way the rear suspension rose on acceleration.
Do they still do that?
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>> I never felt comfortable with the way the rear suspension rose on acceleration.
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>> Do they still do that?
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That's a characteristic of all shaft drive bikes.
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I dunno, I looked again yesterday and I'm still humming and hahing.
My friend is on his second Astra with that engine and he likes it - but that might say more about him than anything.
I can't really be bothered with the six-speed manual. I drove my pal's Freelander a few years ago that had a quite good 2.2 diesel but I now remember having to row it up and down the box all the time because the power band was so narrow. Maybe diesel fans just accept that this is the way it has to be?
I saw a lovely Accord 2.4 petrol auto tourer the other day - it was a bit leggy and bigger than I want really but if it hadn't been for the mileage I would have gone over the edge. Virtually every one you see over here is an oiler.
I guess all this is why I don't suppose I'll ever buy a new or even newish car again. If nothing at say 5-7k sterling appeals then what if I wanted to spend real money?
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I now remember having
>> to row it up and down the box all the time because the power band
>> was so narrow. Maybe diesel fans just accept that this is the way it has
>> to be?
This is the thing i've detested about so many modern Diesels, and probably the underlying cause of why i am so underwhelmed by Mondeo and Focus in particular, in a minority here as most seem to rate them very highly so maybe its me, i can't abide the complete lack of any torque whatsover until spool up occurs and then whoosh off we go, rinse and repeat, i hate it, and the ease which which they stall.
Diesel autos with a proper gearbox are the most pleasant to drive of the Diesel variants IMO.
Have you tried something like a recent MB C Class 220d or a BMW 320d Mike?
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>> This is the thing i've detested about so many modern Diesels, and probably the underlying cause of why i am so underwhelmed by Mondeo and Focus in particular, in a
>> minority here as most seem to rate them very highly so maybe its me, i can't abide the complete lack of any torque whatsover until spool up occurs and then whoosh off we go, rinse and repeat, i hate it, and the ease which which they stall.
Im with you there Gordon.
A PROPER Diesel will climb walls on tickover......
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>> Im with you there Gordon.
>> A PROPER Diesel will climb walls on tickover......
Test drove a PD130 golf mk4 a couple of days ago. It was a bit worn inside and lived in, a bit like the dealer. When I let up the clutch, it caught me a bit unawares as it was biting right at the bottom. But no way that was going to stall, even with me being a bit abrupt, it just jerked forward. I like that - the way you can trickle forward on idle in traffic. Have to say it's a bit pointless if you have to rev a diesel to stop it stalling.
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>Have you tried something like a recent MB C Class 220d or a BMW 320d Mike?<
German cars are off the radar I'm afraid, for reasons with which I won't bore you.
I had a Mercedes 280 coupe years ago and liked it very much, but I don't much like the look of the new smaller conventional ones with the flattened grille. My brother's new E320 (I think it is) is impressive but a bit OTT for me anyway. A friend has one of those new 4-door coupes that slopes at both ends, which he likes but, again, a bit OTT for me. And I wouldn't want a BMW. I know they are admirable motors - I did quite a lot of miles with a friend's 5-series last year - but I just don't want what everyone else has got. Years ago I bought a Cavalier SRi because I thought it would be a good idea to be one of the crowd. I hated it and not just because it was carp at going round corners. Sold it within a few months and breathed again.
Ho hum.
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>> German cars are off the radar I'm afraid, for reasons with which I won't bore you.
You then proceed to bore us with 107 words!
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you counted them? wow is that sad!
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...You then proceed to bore us with 107 words!...
Not half as boring as you must have been while counting them.
And I'm interested why Mike won't buy a German car.
I reckon it's got something to do with the war.
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>>> German cars are off the radar I'm afraid, for reasons with which I won't bore you.
You then proceed to bore us with 107 words!
Sorry you were bored - the 107 words was meant as more general comment - I like to be different.
Here's what I wasn't going to bore you with:
SWMBO is Jewish. Many of her parents' immediate families died in the camps.
Her father was a master printer and was imprisoned in 1938 (for part of the time in Colditz, no less) by the Nazis for publishing an underground newspaper, until he was helped to escape to the UK via Denmark. Her mother was jailed for distributing the newspaper until she, too, was helped to escape.
We still have part of a copy of his newspaper, which SWMBO thinks the Imperial War Museum might like, as well as ancient copies of the fake documents her father was provided with for his escape.
Her great-uncle, who ran the escape line, was once Mayor of Berlin. He managed to get almost all his family (and others) out of Germany. He and his wife didn't make it.
So I respect her wish.
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...So I respect her wish...
A relative of mine was very anti-Japanese cars because he'd had some mistreatment from Japs during the war.
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I once - completely unthinkingly because my father had no problem with it - turned up with my brand new Honda Accord to pick up my parents in front of everyone at the annual Burma Star Association dinner. It still embarrasses me a bit.
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Very little on the GS Boxers, some torque reaction on when blipping the throttle when waiting at junctions - reminds me that the bike is a living thing ! The new shaftie Triumph in less obtrusive than the GS according to ride reports I've seen. Intend to take one for a bimble over the next few weeks to find out for myself.
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...ideal for the female frame...
I saw what I believe was one of these a week or so ago:
www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2011models/2011-MotoGuzzi-V7Racer.htm
Looked small and very neat parked next to a couple of Jap sports bikes.
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That is totally and oh so Italian.....
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...That is totally and oh so Italian...
You mean the Jap bikes were parked, but the Guzzi was broken down.
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Seems to be something unique to the Ford Diesels. We've gt them at work and no, they won't move off at idle whereas all the VW group cars I've driven will. Entering a roundabout in second gear at walking pace will definitely catch you out in the Ford, but the veedubs just steam off. It is the one thing that would cause me to say no to the Ford. In all other respects the Focus is a sweet driver.
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I've had two diesel Focuses, and neither seem to me to be easy to stall.
Apart from anything else, the anti-stall software is quite aggressive, so the engine fights back, unless you dump the clutch at tickover.
My first was a 1.8, the CC3 is a 2.0.
Maybe the 1.6 is easier to stall - it is the most petrol-like of the three.
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>>Diesel autos with a proper gearbox are the most pleasant to drive of the Diesel variants IMO.
+1. Spot on GB, provided you mean one with torque converter and planetary gearset.
>> Have you tried something like a recent MB C Class 220d or a BMW 320d Mike?
Even the 318d would be OK. These days you can get it with an automatic gearbox if you like, or just stick with the manual of course. Either way, a very wide powerband.
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I had a 320 Touring with an autobox from my local pusher when the X1 was in for something, an absolute delight - gives autos a good name !
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provided you mean one with torque converter and planetary gearset.
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Only proper auto box i know of London.
The wierd and wonderful new ones are just devastating delayed invoices waiting to be goggle eyed at once the short warranty has expired.
Used to shift a lot of 318d autos for those credit hire get rich quick merchants, excellent car as you say, but with ridiculously wide elastic bands on massive wheels, shifted hundreds in weeks of snow and ice, they were hopeless, but better than Minis with painted on tyres.
Corax said... ''drove a PD130 golf mk4 a couple of days ago. It was a bit worn inside and lived in, a bit like the dealer. When I let up the clutch, it caught me a bit unawares as it was biting right at the bottom''
My lads 110 (i think) Toledo was like that, superb tractable motor that pulled like a train from tickover.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sat 12 May 12 at 20:01
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>> If it's the 1.9 Diesel isn't that the generic GM engine
GM have used it, but it's not theirs.
IIRC, belongs to Fiat.
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The 320d is quite easy to stall. In fact, SWMBO stalled it only today. I did it two or three times in the first week, but I've now adjusted to it. It doesn't need a bootful of revs to pull away, but it needs some throttle, just as most petrol engines do.
The PD130 Golf, as Corax says, is very difficult to stall. Just chugs away unless you all but sidestep the clutch at idle.
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I think I may have found The car for you Michael, its an automatic with 70k smiles on the clock.
Its got 3 of those funny SU thingies under the bonnet as well :)
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2140784/Aston-Martin-DBS-Estate-goes-sale.html
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Mike might need someone who knows how to tune the SUs to give it the once over and deliver it to France for him.
Any takers? ;-)
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Two's company, but three's a crowd :)
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Love it. (The Aston). And I have two good friends who know all about SUs. Even I can deal with them - one at a time.
Of course, if I was in that league rather than looking for the modern equivalent of a Honda Aerodeck or a Lancia HPE - both of which I've owned and miss - I would much, much rather have a Lynx Eventer like this:
tinyurl.com/7t35hm3
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Very nice! - actually looks better than the coupé IMO.
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Alfa Romeo 156 - Are all diesels like this? - Iffy
