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What would happen if Germany dropped the Euro and reverted to the Mark?
WW3?
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 13 May 12 at 00:11
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As the mark would probably become stronger they'd find themselves doing a Japan and struggling to export out of Germany.
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Are they planning to?
It would be the death of the euro.
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There was a news story a few months ago to say they were printing Marks again...
www.arabianmoney.net/us-dollar/2011/11/27/germany-printing-deutsche-marks-british-foreign-office-warns-of-euro-chaos/
Last edited by: R.P. on Mon 7 May 12 at 23:24
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Highly unlikely I think
It's new currency would be worth more than the Euro so no problem with the German National Debt but its banks would be left with assets in the old devalued currency and the Government would have to pour in billions to bail them out. Germany's exports would also collapse as the value of its currency rose.
Probably cheaper to bail our Greece although they wouldn't want to admit to that!
WW3? Ironically perhaps Germany is one of the the least martial countries in the world.
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Germany is one of the main problems with the Euro for the others. They are the strongest economy and won't let it devalue too much. If it devalued then other countries would benefit with exports.
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>> WW3? Ironically perhaps Germany is one of the the least martial countries in the world.
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>>
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WW3 will be (is) the economic war and all the money has gone East.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 8 May 12 at 07:42
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>> WW3 will be (is) the economic war and all the money has gone East.
WW3 will start (has started) over access to resources, its armies will be (are) economic and cyber.
The Chinese are already mobilised and active in both.
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...its armies will be (are) economic and cyber...
There was a time when foreigners had to come over here to pinch our jobs.
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It appears that the problem faced by any country contemplating leaving one currency and joining or starting another is how to get their money back out of the old one.
It's easier for a country in debt - just repudiate it and start again. But Germany would presumably want to get its loans repaid, which will be impossible unless they want a load of worthless old Euros. And obviously no one will have any new marks yet because they don't exist.
Really it seems to be a one-way ticket. But then they all knew that when they joined, didn't they?
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Its quite simple really, you just peg the value of the euro to the dollar, and convert all the loans into dollar loans.
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>> and convert all the loans into dollar loans.
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But then everyone would want their money back in dollars. How would a country like Greece get hold of trillions of dollars in order to do that?
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So peg the Euro to another failing currency with trillions of debts too.
Rather have the Yen.
The house of cards doesn't look so rosy now does it....good.
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>> >>
>> >> and convert all the loans into dollar loans.
>> >>
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>> But then everyone would want their money back in dollars. How would a country like
>> Greece get hold of trillions of dollars in order to do that?
They owe trillions of euros, that has to be paid back, they might as well pay dollars instead.
They can't get either but hey.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 8 May 12 at 12:06
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>>
>> They owe trillions of euros, that has to be paid back, they might as well
>> pay dollars instead.
>>
Imagine we are playing Monopoly, and as people often do, we are cheating and allowing ourselves to borrow from the bank instead of sticking to the rules.
As it happens, I am winning, and Zero owes me £100,000(monopoly).
Now someone suggests that we abandon monopoly pounds and convert to a real currency, say the dollar or the yen.
I would jump at the chance. But Zero would have to go home and confess that he had just gambled away all their savings.
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I borrowed 100k monopoly pounds, which I borrowed from the bank of monopoly. The bank of monopoly now says I pay them 100k real dollars instead of monopoly pounds.
I still borrowed more than I should, I still have to repay, its just the colour of the notes has changed. As it happens I can't pay either colour back, i have nothing.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 8 May 12 at 12:55
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>> WW3 will be (is) the economic war and all the money has gone East.
>>
It's begun already and it's not economic but, in order not to be called Islamophobic, let's say it's cultural.
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Good time to have a holly day in the €urozone (or, buy an owse!)
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Curious what is going to happen when the new French president Hollande is going to meet Mrs Merkel.Bussiness as usual?
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I think the big catalyst will be the Greeks. There is surely no way they can stay in the Euro now. Once one country has fallen, others will follow.
The French are not going to go all out to keep the project afloat now, are they?
And there's a good argument that the Germans (along with the Danes and other northern countries) could leave the Euro.
That they won't get their money back is irrelevant, as they won't get it back anyway.
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They are talking about the Deuro.Sounds appropiate>:)
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It could be called the Reichsmark.
If i was Francois Hollande I would be looking at refurbishing the Maginot Line (and extend it across the Belgian border to the sea this time)
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If Germany dropped the Euro, the Euro would fall and the DM rise.
As Germany is one of the major contributors to bailing out the Greeks and the Italians etc, and they of course could and would not repay,,, most German banks would go bust... Anyone who lends money denominated in Euros would see HUGE bad debts..
So that's the end of the IMF then and the Global Financial System.
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>>I think the big catalyst will be the Greeks. There is surely no way they can stay in the Euro now. Once one country has fallen, others will follow<<
Not necessarily, it would make the €uro stronger for one thing and enable the ECB to concentrate on less terminal cases.
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>> Not necessarily, it would make the €uro stronger for one thing and enable the ECB
>> to concentrate on less terminal cases.
You mean like the major economies that are bankrupt?
The Italian tax authorities have taking to assuming that Italian companies are declaring only a proportion of their earnings. Accordingly they slap an assessment on a company for tens of millions of euros. The only way to defend this is through the courts, and the Italian judges are politicised so you cannot guarantee a straight one.
This is the experience of well-run Italian companies owned by British companies that are subject to proper audits/corporate governance. It is essentially fraud on the part of the Italian tax authorities.
The Spanish tax authorities have, contrary to EU law, suspended the repayment of VAT on a monthly basis. Now, if you are in a net repayment position you are only allowed to submit your returns quarterly, with the consequent cash flow advantage to the Spanish Government.
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>> Good time to have a holly day in the €urozone (or, buy an owse!)
Yule bee heading back to the dogging aisles then Perro?
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>>Yule bee heading back to the dogging aisles then Perro?<<
I'm looking at Uruguay now bathtub, but keep it under your hat, like, we don't want every Tom, d*******, and Harriet finding out abow tit ;)
Stupid blimmin swear filter!
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If you want to keep it under your hat surely you should be looking at Panama?
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Very good Crocks, yule go far (the further the better!)
:o)
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Greece 70%cut in pension and poverty.I blame the banks,you got to blame somebody shoot the lot.<:
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Angela Merkel overheard at Athens' Airport immigration.
Imm. Off. "Name ?"
A.M . "Angela Merkel"
Imm Off. "Occupation" ?
A.M. "No, a holiday...."
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Naughty but nice RP ! Reminds me of the reason oft given as to why France's roads are tree lined. So the Germans can march in the shade...
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I think the intention in the beginning was a good one.No more wars between the European nations.Travelling in Europe without money exchange etc.Where did it all go wrong?The unification of Germany was a triumph for people which the Russians allowed.The Germans did well,in a matter of ten years they brought East Germany up to scratch.I don't think that many West Germans where all that keen paying a hefty price for the East Germans.The Euro was decided by the German and French political leaders maybe the Bilderberg meetings had something to do with it as well.German industry is powerfull they have invested in young people and they are reaping the benefits.Strange old world.
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You gotta love hindsight...luckily a lot of us are gifted with it.
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An Englishman arriving at Sydney airport some years ago was asked at Immigration if he had a criminal record. He replied that he didn't know that it was still a requirement for entry to OZ which didn't go down too well!
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Spain looking to part-nationalise one of its major Banks tonight.
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>>What would happen if Germany dropped the Euro?
Hopefully it would fall like the wall, break the Continental Plate, and the rest of Europe, and all the troubles it brings would just float-off into oblivion.
Leaving us the little, nice, quiet, sensible island we used to be.
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clearly you forgot your history lessons at school, its never been like that
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>> Leaving us the little, nice, quiet, sensible island we used to be.
>>
Gradually sinking under an unsustainable and still growing population.
Country, as we knew it, will never recover from the last 30 but especially the last 15 years, its all over bar the shouting.
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yeah, 15 years of doom mongerers talking the place down will do that.
You can always gather up your family and leave, if its that bad.
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Years of seeing it happen, watching the brainwashed elect con men and women, from the same mould and aims but branded differently, to lead them and their country ever further into the toilet.
My life's fine as it is thankyou, not p'ing it up the wall has resulted in reasonable financial security, doesn't stop me seeing the general picture though, as some others, doing very nicely thankyou, seem to be blinkered to what has happened.
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Quet nice sensible island we used to be? I remember the miners strike,the three day week.Winter of discontent and people couldn't be buried.It wasn't always that quet and sensible.>:)
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Lokking through a glass half empty the good old days will always be better:(
Looking through a glass half full the present isn't so bad, and the future is full of new and exciting things.
For me, you can keep those supposed good old days, I'm happy with the present!
Pat
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My wife had to go to hospital for a pre-op yesterday and she had to regale nurse with her medical history. All those problems post WW2.. now basically medical history...
Got to agree with Pat: things are much better.
One thing has not changed : people always want something for nothing..(see the Greeks and austerity... They have a history of defaulting when times get bad and never repaying.. Why anyone lends to them I do not know)..
Anyone who trusts ANY Government to honour its promises - when they involve spending money - is seriously deluded or just thick.
It's all going to go mammaries up - eventually.
Last edited by: madf on Thu 10 May 12 at 11:02
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>>I'm happy with the present!
Even with all the new-fangled Political Correctness and over-bearing do-gooders screaming "Human Rights" when so-clearly bad `uns are playing this tune full blast whilst costing Honest, decent, hard-working rich and poor alike thousands in tax?
The Country I used to know is Lost, and whether I`m looking back through rose-tinted pint-glasses or not, I know which times I prefered! even the Turbulent Thatcher years!
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I'm with devonike, and I'm planning my escape as we speak!
An example: www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-property/property-20289699.html
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>> I'm with devonike, and I'm planning my escape as we speak!
Could end up neighbours then dog. Peloponnese is on our list to visit as somewhere we might want to eventually move. I know Greece is messed up at the moment but things will improve. Planning to do our bit to help them by going there for two weeks shortly.
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>>Could end up neighbours then dog<<
My friend in Plymouth sent me that property Rob, his wife is half Greek, half Egyptian (and not alf bad either)
I seem to be drawn to Cyprus at the moment, although I've been looking at Crete: www.creteproperty.co.uk/
the Canaries (again!) and even Uruguay: www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/offshorefinance/9242821/British-expats-flock-to-cheap-and-cheerful-Uruguay.html
www.expatforum.com/
Last edited by: Dog on Thu 10 May 12 at 17:47
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>> I seem to be drawn to Cyprus at the moment,
Most of the Greek Cyprus banks will go bust if Greece leaves the Euro: they have big loans to Greece..
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>>Most of the Greek Cyprus banks will go bust if Greece leaves the Euro: they have big loans to Greece<<
That should make the property on the Island even cheaper then, and its cheap enough in the Med already but, the reason I'm basically boracic is that I'm not ruthless in-any-way, so, I sincerely hope folk don't lose their shirts etc. in the coming months/years, but then again many already have, alas.
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>> I'm with devonike, and I'm planning my escape as we speak!
>>
I would wait until it settles down after the next military coup.
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>> >> I'm with devonike, and I'm planning my escape as we speak!
So you think this country is heading for a mess, and you are planning to escape to GREECE???
wot a bleedin looney!
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>>wot a bleedin looney!<<
Monster raving, and always have been - tbh though I'm sick and tired of this bleedin climate.
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>> >>wot a bleedin looney!<<
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>> Monster raving, and always have been - tbh though I'm sick and tired of this
>> bleedin climate.
>>
So you want to swap green for semi desert.
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>>So you want to swap green for semi desert<<
Absolutely! - I'm rather fond of Succulents ;)
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>> >>So you want to swap green for semi desert<<
>>
>> Absolutely! - I'm rather fond of Succulents ;)
>>
I once spent a year in various Mediterranean area dust bowls, that makes you appreciate a green countryside.
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>>I once spent a year in various Mediterranean area dust bowls, that makes you appreciate a green countryside<<
Of course I realise that O/N - we lived in Tenerife about 15 years ago and it certainly hits you when you arrive back in blighty - just how green it actually is.
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But a lot of Greece is also very green. Where I am off to on Saturday is very green (Lesvos) and so is Parga (September's holiday). Rhodes on the other hand is not as colourful.
We're going to Lesvos a week later than we'd have preferred so a lot of the beautiful flowers will have probably gone now.
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My Sister is orf to Lefkada at the end of May, is that in the same area as Lesvos (I don't know Greece too well) she goes there quite a lot actually.
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>>Even with...<<
Yes, all of that, and more.
You've had a job all of your life, food to eat, a carpet on the floor to stand on and are now wrapped up safe with the DWP and the NHS. It is very unlikely you will ever suffer any extreme hardship such as cold, starvation, poverty or war.
It hasn't always been like that, and still isn't in a lot of countries.
Whatever happened to being 'satisfied'
I fear we've bred a generation of over 50's who have short memories, and nothing to do but criticize the country we live in, instead of counting their blessings.
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Thu 10 May 12 at 16:06
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"You've had a job all of your life, food to eat, a carpet on the floor to stand on and are now wrapped up safe with the DWP and the NHS. It is very unlikely you will ever suffer any extreme hardship such as cold, starvation, poverty or war."
But isnt the point that all those good things are now under threat - do our children have the prospect of the same ? If not why not .............. (fill in the blank depending on you pov)
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I guess GB is talking about something quite different.
The unspoken words that GB cannot bring himself to use: non-white immigration.
>> I fear we've bred a generation of over 50's who have short memories, and nothing to do but criticize the country we live in, instead of counting their blessings. >>
True.
However, the last 20 or 30 years are likely to turn out to have been the best 2 or 3 decades that years Britain has ever had. Our debt mountain (which is still growing despite the cutbacks) and the combination of future costs that have not been planned for (loss of UK exports, pensions/longevity issues, and health/obesity/old-age-care NHS costs) will prove to be a millstone around our neck that drags down our standard of living.
Glass was full definitely in the past, but the glass is less than half full now, I fear.
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I reckon you're right John - my generation had the best of it - but I don't think it's just the UK though.....
ON may have a point, Greece for some reason has a disproportionately powerful Army (despite it's arguments with Turkey) always spoiling for a coup....
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>>Whatever happened to being 'satisfied'
Ah! - but thats a different point! - I am satisfied (with my life and what I`VE made of it!).
What I`m unhappy about is the "State" our wise and wonderful Leaders have let this fine Country decline into Whether this coincides with our entry in to the Common Market, and being pelted with all kinds of bureaucratic crap from Brussels is open to debate, but For ME, life prior "seemed" preferable. Yep, I`m over 50 and my memory may have clouded slightly, but put the "Bobby" back on the street (with his lug-clipping powers), banish this "Naughty-step" nonsense, discipline kids properly! bring back the decency values that our parents installed in us. Compare the morals of todays youth, thier big-mouthed attitudes, care-less, uneducated standards, and tell me this is preferable! - yuz nos im right dont yu !
(this, by the way is the "new" Queens English today! - street version!) Pah! this Dinosaur would still go back!!
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>>bring back the decency values that our parents installed in us. Compare the morals of todays youth, thier big-mouthed attitudes, care-less, uneducated standards, and tell me this is preferable! - yuz nos im right dont yu !
<<
WE are todays 'our parents' and it is WE who instilled the values you despise in the youth of today.
You can't deny it!
WE all voted for the political parties that, according to you, got us into this state, we didn't refuse the good things they bestowed upon us, we took them with open arms.
GB persistently decries the youth of today, forgetting they have been brought up by us, and the values we coveted.
Pat
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>> GB persistently decries the youth of today, forgetting they have been brought up by us,
>> and the values we coveted.
>>
The issue is not as cut and dried as you make out, Pat. Modern research highlights the role of Peers in the development of the child, and it is plausibly claimed that the influence from this group exceeds that from the parents.
This webpage ( www.mindpub.com/art273.htm ) cites the book ""The Nurture Assumption" by JR Harris, for example.
"According to Harris, children are most influenced by their peers. They adopt many behaviors of their peers in social settings in order to be accepted by their peers. She goes on to say that children's interaction with their peers permanently modifies their inborn psychological characteristics. Thus, what they learn outside the home remains steadfast with them thorough adulthood. So, if there is a psychological characteristic or behavior that you don't like about yourself, don't blame your parents because you might have acquired it from your peers. "
"Who Shaped Our Behavior? Peers or Parents?"
The truth, as ever, probably lies in the middle.
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>>tinyurl.com/cyjok7j<<
That is exactly what I was trying to tell the ole woman this morning (as she was drying her hair)
Its not un-like what Kenari stu said once about the benefits that claimants receive going straight back whence it came.
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Coo i like this thread, i don't need to post any more as a couple of failed mind readers are doing it all for me, do carry on...:-)
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I don't think we have to read your mind GB, you make your stance perfevtly clear.
Pat
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Good, if you know my stance you won't need to keep having little digs at me then will you.
If you have a problem with me personally spell it out, i don't agree with your view of the state of the country but you are perfectly entitled to hold it, just as i.
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Do forgive me GB, I really thought the idea of a forum discussion was to discuss alternative and opposing views.
Others opinions have differed from yours, but not been accused of 'having a dig at you'
May I suggest that shows the problem is yours?
Either that, or a soapbox would be a more appropriate place to a discussion forum, for you.
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Fri 11 May 12 at 04:34
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There are a lot of over 50s on here. The country is as we made it, if you want to blame anyone, blame us. If I was leaving school I would be cursing the previous generations for their "I'm all right Jack" attitude.
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I can't disagree with that, Zero.
Our country is as we have made it.
With hindsight - a wonderful thing - I think I would have been more interested and active in what was happening around me, although there was a period in my early 20s when I was interested in politics and involved, too.
I guess the minutiae of every day life earning a living, keeping a roof over one's head and raising children took our eyes off the ball.
Most of us just enjoyed our good fortune during the "golden years".
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>> I guess the minutiae of every day life earning a living, keeping a roof over
>> one's head and raising children took our eyes off the ball.
There's much in that first sentence, most of us were indeed working all hours the good Lord sent to provide for our loved ones and some sort of future for ourselves, we didn't have the time to get involved, maybe stupidly in our innocence assuming our leaders might actually have our country's best interests at heart as they promised-;), extremely naive we were.
>> Most of us just enjoyed our good fortune during the "golden years".
Not so sure about the golden years bit, those prepared to get off their fat backsides and do some graft instead of expecting the state to pick up the bill are still doing ok.
It never was the case for ordinary people that a 35 hour week would provide a good standard of living to enable the raising of a family and buy your own home without handouts, there seems to be a lack of the will or stubborn pride to stand one ones own feet now.
Not all of us were fortunate enough to be in at the right time or worked for the right companies to be in the final salary pension umbrella, i'm not in that happy band, but hold no envy or bad feeling towards those who were fortunate enough, makes a change for common man to get a bite at the cherry instead of it being the sole preserve of apparatchiks.
I don't quite understand the animosity towards those who managed to get their feet under that confortable pension table, there's always been winners and losers, some of those who slipped in tend to forget that others of their generation didn't fare quite so well for a variety of reasons.
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>> The country is as we made it, if you want to blame anyone, blame us<<
I don't agree with that statement one iota, most people put faith in the government that they elected - to run Great Britain PLC in a somewhat competent manner but, from my personal experience they have done nothing of the sort in my lifetime, sure I could have voted for opposition, but they are just 2 cheeks of the same rear end!
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 14 Jun 16 at 01:39
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>> >> most people put faith in the government
>> that they elected - to run Great Britain PLC in a somewhat competent manner but,
>> from my personal experience they have done nothing of the sort
>>
Exactly. If they really thought I wanted to do the job myself they should have asked me, and I would have been happy to do so, or at least advise.
But they said they were the experts, so I elected them to get on with the job.
Electorates always have unfounded confidence in governments, and a belief that the impossible is actually possible. Apparently in 1945 most people thought they were voting for a Labour government but with Winston Churchill to lead it.
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>>But they said they were the experts, so I elected them to get on with the job.
<<
Three times, after 18 years of the other lot....do we never learn?
Pat
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>>do we never learn?<<
Its not too late m8 - even now!
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>> >> The country is as we made it, if you want to blame anyone, blame
>> us<<
>>
>> I don't agree with that statement one iota, most people put faith in the government
>> that they elected - to run Great Britain PLC in a somewhat competent manner but,
>> from my personal experience they have done nothing of the sort in my lifetime, sure
>> I could have voted for opposition, but they are just 2 cheeks of the same
>> rear end!
You are passing the buck, slippery shoulders job, "not my fault guv"
Cobblers. You have had the vote for over thirty years, of course its your fault, and mine.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 14 Jun 16 at 01:40
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>>You have had the vote for over thirty years, of course its your fault, and mine<<
I didn't vote for:
The Schengen Agreement
The Maastricht Treaty
Mass immigration
The invasion of Iraq
The invasion of Afghanistan
The bombing of Serbia
Raising of the retirement age
Same sex marriage
Tony Blair
Gordon Brown
or Uncle Tom Cobbley
The only reason I voted for the Eton mob is to get the other crooks out.
Anyway m8 – cop hold of this ~ www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm9-PZJ3buk&feature=related
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>> Others opinions have differed from yours, but not been accused of 'having a dig at
>> you'
Others, apart from the JohnH and his thinly veiled Islamaphobia, don't make it personal.
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GB, I'm at a loss as know what your problem is, but whatever it is, it seems to be with me personally so can I suggest you email me at pat.nicholson@tiscali.co.uk with the details.
Let's leave the forum post for others to discuss their opposing views, as it seems I'm not allowed to do that if they differ from yours!
Quite why, I really am intrigued to find out.
Pat
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>> Others, apart from the JohnH and his thinly veiled Islamaphobia, don't make it personal.
>>
>>
1. No mention of any religion in my posts in this thread, I think.
2. if you want to get a Government that is to your liking, you need to be able to debate your views, express them clearly, and get people to understand and support your views. Otherwise you and your supporters will remain a minority. Would you care to expand and explain what you mean by the statements below, and what you think should have been done differently to achieve your aims for the country.
a. "Country, as we knew it, will never recover from the last 30 but especially the last 15 years, its all over bar the shouting."
b. "Gradually sinking under an unsustainable and still growing population."
c. "Years of seeing it happen, watching the brainwashed elect con men and women, from the same mould and aims but branded differently, to lead them and their country ever further into the toilet."
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1. didn't stop you adding your version of my apparent unwritten thoughts though did it, not so funny when someone returns the favour.
2a. Country continued down the road of declining manufacturing and put most of its eggs in the financial and service sector.
Continued borrowing untold billions to fund an overbearing state, entered several wars for no good reason, paid Billions of borrowed pounds into the EU, still giving money hand over fist to foreign nuclear powers for a variety of reasons.
Continued selling the nation silver, or gold, everything privatised on the pretence of removing state inefficiency but was really to raise money to temporarily stave of the inevitable bankruptcy of the country....none of them wanted to be holding the baby when the chickens came home...to mix a few sayings.
2b. Country full to bursting and in severe financial crisis and still no sensible solution to massive and continuing immigration....colour or race despite your remark earlier in the thread is not an issue for me, its the cramming of a quart into a pint pot with the economy able to support half a pint.
No meaningful checking or deportation of illegals whatever they happen to do here, however evil any crimes they commit might be.
No system in place to ensure any and all immigrants will not be a burden to their host country...this is not a charity island, so long as we continue to subsidise and actually pay people to do nothing constructive, they will continue to take advantage...that applies equally to natives.
2c. George Galloway has the ideal terminology for the situation, three cheeks of the same backside, but he puts it rather better without a swear filter.
Millions voting for the least worse of the three factions, its become the equivalent of a one party state.
For years now its become increasingly apparent that there isn't a scrap of difference between either of the three main parties, we have been promised referenda on membership of the EU, propaganda with no intention of ever being fulfilled.
We now have the unenviable situation of still spiralling borrowing, a govt supposed to be cutting back and spectacularly failing to do so...fiddling as Rome burns and taxing its own people ever more to make up the shortfall.
Meanwhile still pouring money into the EU and other equally failed projects such as wind farms and don't forget the olympics.
The toilet is where we are headed unless we put some life and business experience at the helm of the country, and actually do something about cutting costs.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Fri 11 May 12 at 11:54
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-1,000,000,000,000 billion trillion gazillion googlions (real billions and trillions, not American).
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>> unless we put some life and business experience at the helm of the country >>
At the pay scales of MPs, business leaders are not interested in running the country. They get paid more ruining (intentional spelling, not a typo) the companies the run.
So let's try what would your manifesto heading might say:
No immigration, population control, no benefits scroungers, growing manufacturing industry, no wars, no aid to India and Pakistan as they are nuclear states, not a member of the EU, ....
China!
That is what we want. A communist dictatorship. That will also remove Islamaphobia as no religions will be allowed.
Increase (or try to stop decline of) UK manufacturing base - Tory policy.
Get out of Afghanistan and Iraq - Tory policy.
Cut borrowing - Tory policy.
Cut non-EU immigration - Tory policy.
Cut benefits - Tory policy.
Cut aid to India - Tory policy.
Reduce EU influence - Tory policy.
Whose policies are the following:
1. leave EU - ?
2. stop wind farms - ?
3. stop Olympics - ?
4. stop children (forced birth control) - ?
5. cut UK labour costs to make UK industry competitive - ?
6. ban trade unions - ?
7. stop all international aid - ?
8. stop all imports (and face losing all exports) - ?
9. stop all benefits - ?
10. kill the NHS - ?
12. only allow British companies to operate here - ?
11. deport all non "British" companies/employers, employees and residents - ?
12. force investors (private or pensions or whoever) to invest in British industry and not in the financial sector - ?
The problem with a democracy is that even within a party there will be people with differing views who are all vying for their "pet" policy to be given priority, and there will be "enemy within" the party who disagree with the majority and try to sabotage the party's aims. In an established democracy like Britain, it is difficult to make changes and there is a limit to what the politicians can do anyway when a great deal is outside their control and is governed by what the world is doing.
Take what Mapmaker said earlier:
"The Italian tax authorities have taking to assuming that Italian companies are declaring only a proportion of their earnings. Accordingly they slap an assessment on a company for tens of millions of euros. The only way to defend this is through the courts, and the Italian judges are politicised so you cannot guarantee a straight one.
This is the experience of well-run Italian companies owned by British companies that are subject to proper audits/corporate governance. It is essentially fraud on the part of the Italian tax authorities."
Another example is the new UK Bribery Act (2010) passed by Labour. [*]
That goes beyond the American "Foreign Corrupt Practices Act". The US allows "facilitation payments" but the UK has banned them.
As a result, US companies with UK presence who also have subsidiaries in other countries are facing great difficulty conducting business abroad.
[*] may explain why Britain lost out to France in this contract bid:
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/140389a8-4c0f-11e1-b1b5-00144feabdc0.html
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Oh dear, why did i waste my time thismorning, lesson learned.
I won't bother trying make head or tail of the rest of the post, what are you on, what has China got to do with anything, or banning imports?
The 'Tory Policy' examples you give, most of which they aided and abetted to get into in the first place and failed to do anything about since say enough.
What your heroes might waffle about to get soundbites and media coverage doesn't translate into action or intent, much the same as the opposition, if it wasn't so laughable it would be a tragedy.
can i have another offensive face please..;)
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>> Oh dear, why did i waste my time thismorning, lesson learned.
>>
So you shall forever remain a one-man-party with one declared voter (Roger).
>> I won't bother trying make head or tail of the rest of the post, what
>> are you on, what has China got to do with anything, or banning imports?
>>
I am too simple and stupid a person to make head or tail of your manifesto, whatever it might be.
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Politicans haven't got the answer problaby none of us do.That is why we have recessions depressions and wars.If there is no solution lets kill each other.>;)
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I rather liked the " Manifesto", (with the exception of 7, 9 &10 )then you appeared to lose the plot and go off the rails somewhat. Up until that point, a lot of it made sense, regardless of Who`s Policies they were!
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Well, I've given this the whole day and I've had no emails from anyone so I think it's best I make myself clear on here once and for all, to put this to bed.
I've never been in the habit of pussyfooting around men's opinions or ego's, specially other lorry drivers, and I'm not about to start now.
I shall continue to pass an opinion whenever I see fit, if it happens to differ from anyone else's then debate the point with me, but don't complain that I'm getting 'digs' at you personally.
I'm not... If I was, I would certainly make that clear via an email to be passed by the mods.
Pat
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Your opinion is valued Pat.We all get carried away sometimes its the way of the world.
Who am I to talk a immigrant from the lowlands.>:)
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>> Your opinion is valued Pat.We all get carried away sometimes its the way of the
>> world.
+ 1
Well said, Dutchie. I value the opinions of all posters, even if I get (temporarily) a bit hurt sometimes. That's one of the ways to learn. In fact, I sometimes find myself supporting one side of an argument that, years ago, I was a supporter of the other side!
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I've come back from Coventry.>:) My uncle used to live in Black Heath Birmingham,he was a Navy man met my aunty during the war in the UK.He passed away,still have a cousing living there.All we can hope and battle for is a fair soceity Londoner we all change our minds from time to time.
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Wake up!, to see the farm, is to leave it - - - The Story of Your Enslavement:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A&feature=related
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Anarchist propaganda. Stefan Molyneux's kind of society with no rules or authority would be a "Lord of the Flies" type existence.
These Utopian dreamers cause more suffering and hardship than any existing system that they choose to attack. e.g. The French Revolution, Fascism, Communism, the EU.
As the saying goes: "The road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions".
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Democracy only results in a mirror of peoples' opinions.
Watch Greece: no-one WANTS austerity,no-one votes for it, the politicians who had no choice but to implement it have lost out at the ballot box.
BUT eventually money - or its lack - talks...
As for the UK, we are going through a century long realignment from world super power to benefits beanfeast back to economic reality.. It's bound to hurt.
Criticising politicians is easy: voting differently or trying to persuade them to do something else is very difficult.
Remember, no democracy can change overnight: it takes mass agreement. Given that half the UK population believes that the state ie. taxpayers .. owe them a living, it's not going to be easy. There are NO easy solutions.
Last edited by: madf on Sat 12 May 12 at 08:35
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The biggest problem with democracy is that so many decisions end up under the heading "seemed like a good idea at the time".
Hindsight is a wonderful gift, and I look forward to using on the current goings on in a few years in the same way that the Thatcher era of my youth now makes more sense.
Germany dropping the Euro? Would the first result be an uosurge in demand for presses to print banknotes? The sort made by German companies probably. What an export drive that would be :)
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I remember the Thatcher era well Mr PDA.I was lucky just started a decent job with BP.At that time everybody had lost the plot in the UK.After the miners strike.
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Thatcher was the UK's barmaid at the last chance saloon
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Good interview between John Humphreys and his Greek resident son on the radio just now (R4 PM) - scary stuff. 2 Euro litre diesel, doubled in in twelve months.
Last edited by: R.P. on Sat 12 May 12 at 17:47
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If the Greeks leave the Euro, they will be lucky to have food, let alone diesel... No money to pay civil servants , or pensions .
The Drachma would collapse and import prices rocket...
It would be an interesting lesson to politicians who believe you can borrow for ever with no reckonning...
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Its time they were thrown to the wolves. Everyone seems pretty cool now about ring fencing them as some kind of pariah state, dump the bubbles and concentrate on saving Spain Portugal and Ireland, at least they seem serious about stuff.
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What would happen if Germany dropped the Euro? - Lygonos
