***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 3 *****
Ongoing debate regarding the threat of a possible fuel strike
Volume 1
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 31 Mar 12 at 11:51
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Filled up this morning - just behind one car. In spite of price being lower (139.9 unleaded) compared to other pumps nearby (141.9) and still there was not much crowd.
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I think we have all moved on from the old "Don't panic" days, when we all pretended it was immoral to stock up with things rumoured to be getting short, but then secretly sneaked along and filled up anyway.
Nowadays we assume, rightly, that all statements from all politicians are either meaningless or mean the opposite of what the words purport to mean.
There is no problem = there is a problem
There is no shortage= there might be a shortage
Don't panic buy = go and top up quickly
It's a new dimension when the PM advises people to panic buy, but probably not now a significant one. We know that, we are already ahead of him in the game.
The jerry can advice was a bit of a fiasco, because it is so blatantly what people would like to do anyway, and some of us always have.
Plus the inconvenient complication that you are not supposed to fill jerry cans with 20 litres of petrol, let alone store them and then go back for more. Possibly illegal, certainly contravening some kind of regulation.
But then in an emergency all regulations are open to revision, and if a government minister now advises me to hoard 10 jerry cans of petrol in my wooden shed, that's fine by me.
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I think what the government has done is ever so slightly clever on balance.
People were always going to panic buy, thats a given.
What they have done is take control of the making of chaos which is the reason for striking.
The fear of chaos is the lever unions like to use, but their bluff has been called somewhat.
By the time the strike actually happens, not only will it be less impactful, but people will be well prepared for it and unless it goes on for an extended amount of time, its not going to have the shock effect thats intended.
Very curious how things are panning out. I heard today that this morning there arent really many queues about anymore. I guess there are only so many cars that need filling up in a panic.
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Price of eating oil is going up and up and up etc.. etc.. etc.. www.boilerjuice.com/heatingOilPrices.php
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I think many people panicked because they thought strike will happen during Easter breaks - when many people are going on driving holidays.
But as strike has not yet been announced and there has to be at least 7 days warning, it seems Easter will be fine. After that it will be business as usual and people are accustomed with not going to work/school/etc. for few days (like during big freeze).
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Well if this weather holds, its hardly a chore to stay at home is it?
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Next 2 weeks are school holidays. So many cars will be off the road anyway.
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seems some garages are running short. Plenty of queues across loads of petrol stations.
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>> Price of heating oil is going up and up and up etc.. etc.. etc..
Thank you Dog. That's all I need to be told, as if my financial misery wasn't bad enough already.
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>>Thank you Dog. That's all I need to be told, as if my financial misery wasn't bad enough already<<
I keep putting it off in the hope it'll come down (Haha!) I'm down to 2 on the Richter scale (Watchman)
I just use the boiler for hot water in the morning, if it comes to it I'll stick in an electric shower rather than have to fork out for 1000 ltrs with those sort of prices.
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>>I think what the government has done is ever so slightly clever on balance.
I too think it's quite shrewd.
After the ballot, we are in a 4 week period where a strike can be held.
If people's tanks are full now, the union must delay the strike towards the end of the four week risk period to have any impact.
This buys the army 2 or 3 weeks more to conduct their training and to develop their plans to keep the country moving however long the strike may be.
As for the striking drivers, contemptible is the word which springs to mind.
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I agree. And there's a second strand to the shrewdness, because the 4 weeks phoney war gives a chance for all the slow readers to catch up and go out and stock up too.
In fact with a rolling programme of stocking up there will never be an opportune moment to strike effectively.
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According to the Beeb petrol sales up 80% and Diesel sales up 40% on normal yesterday. The oil companies must be really happy !
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>>As for the striking drivers, contemptible is the word which springs to mind.<<
Nothing more middle class than people on £45k striking. Out of touch with reality and a slap in the face of 2.6 million unemployed who would be delighted to have a job paying 1/2 that amount.
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of course they would, but that's not really the point.
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Actually its exactly the point.
Those who dont know how easy they have got it, dont deserve it.
At a time when people are struggling anyway, this kind of action hits them hardest, not company bosses.
Treading on poorer people to further your already comfortable position is disgusting.
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i disagree i'm not sure how it affects the unemployed. I've never done the job so i can't comment how easy or not the job is. I'm sure there's always someone who'd do pretty much everyones job for less. But that's not much of an arguement. There's plenty of money in the oil industry fair play to them getting a bit of it. Although the reasons seem at the moment seem to be more about conditions.
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I didnt say it affects the unemployed. Im saying its an affront to someone who cant even get a job that people who are very generously paid think they have anything to complain about. Its about perspective.
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even if they are well paid that doesn't preclude them from having any issues or trying to solve them. You did mention that they had it easy, it's in your post above.
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I said dont know how easy they have it, in terms of the wider employment perspective.
I didnt say their job was easy. For £45k I should hope its not at all easy.
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Strikes are never helpfull it is a last resort .The drivers action is not just about money they are problaby worried about their jobs.Employers know they have their change now to bring in new rules which suit them and will cost the drivers.High unemployement people are scared losing their job and you have a recipi for trouble.Of course Cameron knows what he is doing Governments don't make statements willy nilly.Not sure about tanker drivers having it easy or that they are disgusting.You never know Stu.If its that easy to be a tanker driver give it a go,you are still young enough.
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>>Not sure about tanker drivers having it easy or that they are disgusting.<<
I said neither of those things, please refrain from misrepresenting what I did say.
>>If its that easy to be a tanker driver give it a go,you are still young enough<<
I didnt say it was easy, I said if you have a job and a well paid one, now, when many people are unemployed and others are financially struggling on low, inflation hit wages, splitting hairs over conditions is insensitive at best. Now is not the time at all.
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its all hype, the tories want to get the revinue reciepts to look good for end of year (april)
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Well I've filled up my pit with 5,000 gallons of diesel. That will stop me worrying about fuel prices for a month or two for the next decade.
The lawnmower is catered for by 20 jerrycans: enough to cut my grass and the neighbourhoods for the next decade.
And I've bought a huge condenser to store electricity in case of an electricity strike.
The 100,000 litre tank for gas is taking longer as I have to excavate the lawn.
PS don't tell the HSE.
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I need to mow the lawn but I'm damned if I'm going to take a jerry can to the petrol station at the moment.
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>>I need to mow the lawn but I'm damned if I'm going to take a jerry can to the petrol station at the moment<<
Wise Ferret:
www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/fuel/9173598/Fuel-strike-Police-close-petrol-stations-as-tempers-flare.html
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>> I'm damned if I'm going to take a
>> jerry can to the petrol station at the moment.
>>
I'm damned if I'm going to have anything to with the result of one of Adolf Hitler's projects. tinyurl.com/blc8886
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"Nothing more middle class than people on £45k striking"
Typical DM statement. They're not all on that figure. The older drivers on older contracts are. Many of the newer drivers are earning in the 20s. I thought some of the truckers on here would back that up.
Last edited by: Mr. Ecs on Thu 29 Mar 12 at 14:14
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>>Typical DM statement. They're not all on that figure. The older drivers on older contracts are. Many of the newer drivers are earning in the 20s<<
One does try :-p
My wife had changes put upon her contract which reduced her hours in the last few months, but she took the wider view that the company was trying to decrease its wage bill to make her club viable so she took the hit. In the end it was worth it as the club has started to perform strongly and the hours have gone back up, higher than they were when she was employed.
She earns £6 odd quid an hour, maybe she should have gone on strike? Red Len would have had her out with a banner before lunch. :-)
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There won't be a tanker driver earning anywhere near £20k.
Don't forget the £45 is before overtime and there getting plenty of that at the moment.
The lowest paid will be around £38k before overtime.
The vast majority of the rest of us do around 70+ hours a week for £26K...can you see the difference?
We don't complain, we're just happy to have been able to hang on to our jobs during the last few years, and that's how it should be.
You and I don't always agree Stu, but your bang on with this one!
Pat
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Apologies if this has been covered already but why the difference - is the tanker driver work that much harder? Presumably if not all the non tanker drivers are queuing up to become one?
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I think other arms of trucking will have had pressure to cut costs. The oil industry doesn't really suffer from that (to the same extent), it's hugely cash rich.
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>> Apologies if this has been covered already but why the difference - is the tanker
>> driver work that much harder? Presumably if not all the non tanker drivers are queuing
>> up to become one?
>>
It has, but to sum it up briefly;
1) It's traditionally been a dead mens shoes job. I would suggest that to get in your face would have to fit. It's not the sort of thing you see advertised in the Jobcentre, or indeed anywhere else; in other words there's never, to my knowledge, been a shortage of applicants.
2) It's not hard work, nor dirty, but as you'd expect there's a lot of Elf and Safety to consider.
3) They do work what some would call unsocial hours, but they're well rewarded for it.
4) The drivers in question deliver mainly to garage forecourts; level, well-lit areas on or near public roads. The most physical thing they have to do apart from actually driving the lorry is couple up the pipes.
I for one do not begrudge them a decent wage; I have to admit it is not a job I would choose to do myself, but that is largely down to the fact that firstly I'm a smoker, and secondly I'd die of boredom doing the job because it's far too repetitive for my liking.
What I do object to is the way their union has used this dispute as a way of creating mischief and unrest ahead of the Olympics and Jubileee; the avowed intention of Len McCluskey.
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>> ..... and there getting .... >>
>> ... but your bang .... >>
You're dropping your standards!
:0
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>> >> ..... and there getting .... >>
I'll give you that one but I'm like Z & Rattle;)
>> >> ... but your bang .... >>
On re-reading it, I might even give you that one too....then again I might just have a flounce!
>> You're dropping your standards!
Impossible...lorry drivers standards can't get any lower;)
Pat
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>>You and I don't always agree Stu, but your bang on with this one!<<
I think the polarity of planet earth just shifted. What have we done :-p
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>> Well I've filled up my pit with 5,000 gallons of diesel. That will stop me
>> worrying about fuel prices for a month or two for the next decade.
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>> The lawnmower is catered for by 20 jerrycans: enough to cut my grass and the
>> neighbourhoods for the next decade.
>>
>> And I've bought a huge condenser to store electricity in case of an electricity strike.
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>> The 100,000 litre tank for gas is taking longer as I have to excavate the
>> lawn.
Let's just hope that you live long enough to benefit from all this!
;-)
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Let's just hope that you live long enough to benefit from all this!
As I plan to live until 2100...
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Tempers flaring at Sainsburys at Sixfields, Northampton according to my nans care nurse, huge queues.
Market Harborough on the otherhand was pretty good at the small Tesco station. Just 6 pumps but queue was only 2 cars deep and very orderly.
Last edited by: FoR on Thu 29 Mar 12 at 14:37
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I have just been reading an alternative to the fuel problem
news.sky.com/home/strange-news/article/16198409
No queuing now.
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>> Tempers flaring at Sainsburys at Sixfields, Northampton according to my nans care nurse, huge queues.
Doesn't surprise me at all. See my post yesterday in previous volume. The layout there while theoretically facilitating a free flow is banjaxed by motorist's inabilty to (a) fill wrong side and (b) manouevre into spaces two cars lengths long.
Queue gets jumped by the frustrated at best of times.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 29 Mar 12 at 15:27
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We returned home from a pensioner roam around yesterday evening. I filled the car in the Manchester area a couple of days ago, the fuel station there was busy but nothing unusual for a densely populated area. I filled up again this morning as I do every Thursday while Mrs ON is in the supermarket doing the weekly shop. The supermarket fuel station was marginally busier than usual but with a faster throughput as two cash desks were manned (womaned?) as opposed to the usual one. The staff said they were only slightly busier than usual but at the current rate of sales would not run out of fuel.
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I notice this morning that our local garage is limiting sales to 20lts per fill so supplies must be starting to get tight!
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Official advice today Roads Minister Mike Penning(CON) is to have enough reserve fuel in your car, and Energy Minister Ed Davey (LIBDEM) said not to allow your tanks to go below 2/3rds full. The thinking behind that is that it transfers the stocks from fuel depots to the tanks of vehicles on the road, and dilutes the effect of a strike. The tanker drivers would then have to strike for longer before sever impact is felt by the general motorist, and the tanker drivers would face losing more pay than they may be willing to sacrifice.
However, the Guardian sees it differently:
www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2012/mar/29/fuel-panic-live-updates-petrol
"..... there could be political benefits to scenes of panic. The government is not reacting in a vaccum. It is reacting to a strike ballot by drivers affiliated to the Unite trade union, Britain's largest union and the biggest donor to the Labour Party. Anti-trade union legislation and proposals are bubbling around various political figures - from Francis Maude to Boris Johnson and Eric Pickles - and disruption caused by a strike ballot, whether the mandate is used or not, could be a further spur to clunking the unions with some heavy-duty legislation. ... "
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Why not put a minimum charge of, say, £30 per garage visit? That's about 20 litres and should stop the panic to replace the 2 or 3 litres used to go to the shops and back.
Obviously motorbikes would have to be exempted.
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And some vintage cars - mine only has a 3.5 gallon tank.
Nice idea, but unworkable.
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Not really IIRC it happened in the last fuel shortage, signs saying minimum £20 or similar.
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The good news is that the car is knocking on empty, so I have an excellent excuse for not being at work on Saturday.
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I wonder what the passengers will think :-) Are you still working out of Manchester at the moment though? Isn't there a bus that goes through Didsbury to the airport?
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>> I wonder what the passengers will think :-) Are you still working out of Manchester
>> at the moment though? Isn't there a bus that goes through Didsbury to the airport?
>>
One doesn't do public transport. I might catch something.
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Quite right FF. There are "people" on buses. Not nice.
:-)
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Nice bit of 'divide and rule' by Mr Cameron, get people to drain the forecourts dry when there's at least 7 days before a strike could be called.
Get reactionaries like those here jumping up and down quoting figures from the Daily Mail about wages, and calling the tanker drivers all sorts of names...because they the sheep were daft enough to fall for the Cameroons cry of wolf...result the tanker drivers are the bad guys and they are still working normally, nice one Dave.
I hope the tanker drivers have filled their Bentleys, if not they'll have to get their chauffers to queue up with the plebs who know more about tanker driving than those who do it.
You read some tommy rot now and again , but this thread takes some beating.
Led by the nose.
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>>quoting figures from the Daily Mail about wages <<
Im happy to take Pat's word as gospel, I dont believe she would mislead on something like this.
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I can assure you I wouldn't Stu and if GB would like to look at the link I posted earlier from the Unite website I believe it is on there.
I'm certainly not a reactionary but I do believe we all have to pull our weight in a recession.
No matter how much they say it isn't about wages, a settlement will come with an increase under the guise of 'terms and conditions'
Almost all of us have been hit one way or another whether working, retired, on benefits or ill during the last few years and I see no reason why one small part of the industry I love shouldn't shoulder the burden without complaint, just as everyone else has done.
Call me right or call me wrong, but those are my views.
Pat
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'I see no reason why one small part of the industry I love shouldn't shoulder the burden without complaint, just as everyone else has done.'
What burden and to what end?
Is the oil industry struggling that much?
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The burden of the recession and cutbacks we've all had to face sooty, and no, the oil Industry isn't struggling that much but the rest of the haulage industry is just like many other sectors are.
Pat
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That was my point, if their particular part of the industry isn't struggling, why should they cut back?
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It isn't an industry specific recession that's caused everyone else to accept cut backs, is it?
Just because they have the ability to ground the rest of the industry that supplies and transports the rest of the goods you use, why should they hold us all to ransom?
You'll soon complain when the cost or fuel goes up yet again because it costs more to transport it to the fuel pumps.
...and the cost of everything else goes up, including food because the cost of haulage has gone up to cover the cost of deisel.....to cover the wage rise...
It will be all of us who pay for this, one way or another.
Pat
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that's all well and good. But it still seems to be my part of the world is doing badly so everyone else should be. You haven't told me why they should cut back if there's no need for them to do so.
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>>You haven't told me why they should cut back if there's no need for them to do so.<<
Because it's morally wrong to demand a rise on an already very adequate salary in a recession when in this case, others harder hit, will ultimately suffer for that rise.
Pat
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Blimey - I agree with Pat :-)
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i wasn't aware of the pay rise. What are they asking for? My feeling is that the pay is a red herring. Even if they took a cut to min wage i doubt it would even take 0.1p off the price of petrol.
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Stifling one of the few indistries which isnt struggling as we dip back into recession is hardly a sound economic idea either.
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I don't really care who's fault it is but it sure isn't mine and I'm liable to be at least inconvenienced and indeed likely to have my income reduced as a result.
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>>because they the sheep were daft enough to fall for the Cameroons cry of wolf...result the tanker drivers are the bad guys and they are still working normally, nice one Dave.
<<
So it's all right for the tanker drivers to threaten people with the possibility of not getting to work, away at Easter or to visit the sick, but their not on strike YET so it doesn't matter.
When Cameron uses the same tactics and call their bluff, he's wrong though?
What's good for the goose....
Pat
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I genuinely think, on reflection that Unite are using these tanker drivers to show a bit of muscle and actually their employment is not what this is about at all.
I think its about the Olympics and its Len taking a shot across the bow and nothing else.
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Right well, I've got just over half a tank as I type and I'll do 370 miles tomorrow. Should just about wing in on the fumes...
:-(
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17552928
"Aerial footage shows long queues for fuel in New Malden"
You have to believe what the BBC reports.
The queue shown is a combined queue of shoppers wanting to get into Tescos, those wanting fuel plus towards the end of the shot someone wanting to turn into the car wash holding up the tail enders .
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I am currently in new Malden, consuming some McDonald's.
The press is calling it right, queues of cars trying to get petrol at tesco are now jamming up back into raynes park.
This morning it took me 30 minutes to travel 200 yards on the lower Richmond road due to people queuing to turn right into a sainsbury local filling station.
It's causing genuine chaos in west London and its all that p rick Cameron's fault. Don't give me this old reverse physiology flannel, or being ultra clever it was sheer ruddy stupidity and an inability to keep his stupid flapping gob shut.
There was a good chance the strike would have been a damp squib, but no, balls for brains Cameron and his shower have cost the country millions in lost productivity.
You see he didn't have the brains to panic the country over a holiday but wrecked a working week. My contempt for his level of brainlessness is boundless
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McDonalds? Is that wise in your, er, condition?
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>> McDonalds? Is that wise in your, er, condition?
It could be the cause of it.
;>)
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Comfort food, plus the roads were jammed, so why not chill out at a maccy d.
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Passed 3 local petrol stations all empty at 3pm Asda was queing like crazy.
Can we legally use red diesel if the duty is paid to the tax man ?
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He wanted to cause a panic, thats the whole point, get the sheeple up in arms against the tanker drivers.
For crying out loud, the sheep are trumpeting from their keyboards about a fuel strike which hasn't so far happened.
It certainly worked with general haulage, staffed predominately by good people but couldn't agree with themselves if its day or night, they can't stick together to save their lives and petty jealousy has them, guided by govt propaganda, bickering that X is doing better than Y, so therefore X should come down a peg or two to Y's position....
...in the best socialist tradition but only for the proletariat eh! guided by those who are slightly more equal, apparatchiks...
...instead of doing the right thing and defending their own jobs in recent years by standing together.
As i said before, its not the fault of the tanker drivers if general haulage drivers are daft enough to work 70 hour weeks living in a tin can to earn less than the tanker boys will for a 48 hour week and home in their own beds after their shift.
Amazingly many general ghaulage drivers actualy include their night out money when they talk about their wages, you really have to hear it to believe it sometimes.
As for wages, i don't know how the tanker drivers pay is made up and maybe someone here could lay it down for us instead of quoting Daily Mailesque top lines..several companies involved and they won't all be paying the same or the same way...still no smoke without fire.
I do know how transporter drivers wages are made up though and some of my ex colleagues were knocking up over £50k a few years ago, whilst most of us were around the £40 to £47k on the better companies, the smaller companies paying lower.... i won't tell you what the top two companies pay.
Now those wages sound great don't they, 'cor wouldn't mind some of that' or 'should working class people get paid that much'...however when push came to shove those who begrudged the pay often couldn't hack the work and few of the jealous mob wanted to live in a small cab, or any other of a multitude of excuses.
The basic pay was usually shocking bad, and if you could only cope with one load a day you'd struggle to earn £20k.
You doubled your wages by doing two weeks work a week every week, if i told you what a days work involved you probably wouldn't believe me, but often involed multi drops 2 or more loads, up to 720kms of hard bleeding graft, or doing 2 multi loads out say 100 miles radius, and 2 ferry loads back...PER DAY..
I give this insight because quoting top lines is misleading, the tanker drivers won't be doing a nice steady 7am start and knocking of at 4pm monday to friday.
If its as easy as seems to be the general consensus here, there is nothing to stop you all going out and getting qualified, then going to drive for A N Other companies for 10 years accident free to get some driving experience under your belts, then applying.
Excellent politics though, buried the news about the slight miscalculation on growth heard earlier, appears we might be headed for a recession, who'd have thought.
And you though NuLab were a cynical bunch of dishonourable spinners, liars and cheats.;)
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>> He wanted to cause a panic, thats the whole point, get the sheeple up in
>> arms against the tanker drivers.
But they are not are they, they are gunning at that fool Cameron
>> For crying out loud, the sheep are trumpeting from their keyboards about a fuel strike
>> which hasn't so far happened.
>
Trumpeting at the government, not the tanker drivers. The gov are being heaped in ridicule for stampeding the herd for no reason.
All he has managed to do is cost the country money and fill the yet to strike tanker drivers pockets with fat bundles of overtime, that should finance their strike, no problem.
Here you are david Take this gun, stick out your foot, and pull.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 29 Mar 12 at 19:46
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>> But they are not are they, they are gunning at that fool Cameron
>>
So far you are one of very few that can see the wood through those trees.
Politicians should stick to what they know best, doing Americas bidding, fiddling the expenses or donations, and setting themselves up to call in all those favours when they retire...kerching.
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>>and petty jealousy has them, guided by govt propaganda, bickering that X is doing better than Y, so therefore X should come down a peg or two to Y's position....
<<
Let's get this myth out of the way once and for all.
'Other drivers' are not jealous or consumed with envy at the wages of tanker or transporter drivers. Yes, there may be a fleeting moment when you look at the wage and think 'I wouldn't mind some of that'
Then we look at all the H&S, red tape and the type of work it is and like Harleyman, it would be far too repetitive for me.
Most of us who live in a tin can and tramp all over the place all week do it because we love it, love the daily challenge and the anticipation of never knowing where we're going to bed that night.
That's just choices that drivers make and is not wrong to want that freedom, just as it isn't wrong for you to want the high wage, but it isn't for everyone taking into account what goes with it.
>>so therefore X should come down a peg or two to Y's position....
<<
I never heard another driver say that, and don't know of anyone who would want to see that happen, so to give that impression on here is very wrong.
This isn't about jealousy or envy, it's about greed by a few who will give the general public the impression we're all like that and do us no good whatsoever.
Quite rightly, we resent that.
To be on their wages and want more when every other part of the community has faced cutbacks is wrong, which ever way you look at it and the Union is so misguided to even contemplate it.
UNICEF see it as their chance to gain the power to represent all the smaller companies as one entity, to negotiate in the future and hold the whole country to ransom at will.
Without fuel we all stop...they know that.
They never stop to think about those who go out of business because of their actions though.
Pat
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seems at some odds to your first post. if you say it isn't about wanting them to take a pay cut what burden did you want them to take?
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Sooty, I think you know exactly what I mean.
However I expect them to pay the increases in food bills, energy bills, fuel bills without expecting a rise to cover it, just like most people have had to do.
Not to mention accept reduced pensions and benefits.
Pat
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no i didn't if i did i wouldn't have asked. I guess we'll have to disagree on that. I don't see any reason why they should. There's plenty of money to pay for a pay rise. Just because others have so they should have to put up with no cost of living rise seems to be, to me, a very odd way off looking at things. To look at things from a different angle that no one has covered yet. Do the companies want to risk a strike for a couple of grand each? (assuming that what this is all about)
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by the by, is the fuel distribution industry some sort of cartel ? It's just that there seem to be a limited number of companies involved, and I struggle to see the current situation occuring if a certain large company with lots of green lorries were involved.
I know they can't make tankers materialise and intrude themselves into the business overnight, but I just wondered.
Now I wonder why they aren't in that line of business - anybody know ?
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>> by the by, is the fuel distribution industry some sort of cartel ?
It was for years, by the refiners and hence the oil companies. Thats where the large wages and closed shop for jobs grew up.
Since then the major oil companies have outsourced the operation to haulage companies and some independent fuel brokers have stepped in. Selling the refineries has broken it a little too, but by and large its still a cartel and a closed shop tho that is changing slowly. This is one of the things the tanker drivers are trying to stop.
They are acting rather like the print unions.
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Went to daughter's late morning. One of the roads we use has a small roundabout. We go straight on, Morrison's to the left and a main road coming in from the right. All single carriageway, urban road.
The slip down to Morrison's pumps was blocked back to the main road at the same time blocking access to the store. I'll bet the manager was pleased ! Cars from the right were wanting to get across to fill up but were backed up as far as you could see.
I bet the ' non-fillers ' in that queue had a few choice words to say as well. Fortunately, the roundabout had been left clear and we were able to go through without a problem.
I did all my ' panic buying ' a couple of weeks ago. Always have some in the workshop anyway.
Madness reigns, but you can't blame folk. Dog eat dog out there ! Sorry Perro.
Ted
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Wasn't this the sort of restricted practice that workers such as the dockers, river pilots and steel workers enjoyed? All these have been broken in one way or another so that the employees no longer abuse the systems that had been created. Eventually the employers got to grips and introduced competitive market forces to cut their costs. The employees having had it good for so long and basically extracting the urine did not like it one jot. I see shades of these practices with the tanker drivers.
I was listening to the local radio station this morning and the presenter was interviewing a union rep and a driver. Blah blah, not about money but safety, working too many hours and so on. One driver claimed he was training a new driver and had worked 20 hours yesterday. I emailed the show outlining what follows in respect of drivers hours. My comments went out on air (well everyone has their moment of fame). Now I'm no real expert on driver hours but I know that drivers are expected to keep records of work in the form of tachographs. Those hours are regulated. Operators, namely the tanker companies, have a responsibility in law to monitor and not cause or permit drivers to enfringe those regulations.If they do they could loose their Operators Licences.
Am I missing something here? Surely the authorities ie VOSA would soon be dealing with Operators who had enslaved their drivers and eventually bring the employers to task.
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A fuel station franchisee was explaining his business to a Sky News reporter today.
To fill up his underground tanks would cost him over £100,000.
Most stations don't have the regular turnover to justify full tanks so they never have more than necessary. He worked on 25%.
Panic buying pushes up the wholesale price by as much as 10p/L.
When the panic has finished the wholesale price drops again.
He can't afford to take a gamble on filling up his tanks and then find himself with overpriced stock if a strike doesn't happen.
So, if HM Gov. thinks that stations are going to act as a buffer they might be disappointed.
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Kevin, interesting info. I can see supermarkets will benefit and always did.
Fuel around here about 1-2p/litre cheaper at say Tesco. And queues at Tesco fuel station today - I needed a few things (not fuel) but checked it out. Some vehicles seemed to be turned away etc. I didn't want fuel but the queue was the same one.
Why do I say the Tesco benefitted? Those that got fuel might have gone to the store. Those that gave in probably did too. And they sold a lot of fuel. And they sell a lot anyway. Often a queue at the weekends.
So why did I go... to gauge panic buying locally.... I go to the Lakes tomorrow and will do at least 350 miles at a guess and maybe more. This includes 200 miles there and back from home.... so when I get back next week I will need diesel for the working week that follows.
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If tankers for fuel are moving bombs:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17525461
Then is that poor design or crap reporting? Most likely the latter?
Yes they could explode but I'd hoped the design of the tankers meant this was unlikely.
I think the notion of the knock on effect of responsibility is interesting. Mentioned this before but working in IT the effect of mistakes could be worse. e.g. Nuclear power stations, water supply (quality needs to be guaranteed).... the list would go on.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 30 Mar 12 at 00:51
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>> Most stations don't have the regular turnover to justify full tanks so they never have more than necessary. He worked on 25%.
So only 25% of the their tanks were filled with fuel?? Should they not make it 100% when wholesale price is cheaper? Or that means fuel will evaporate before they are used up?
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No Strike over Easter
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17558294
As I 4cast earlier - strike / no strike brought to a head early - then UNITE says no strike during Easter. Unite /Labour could not afford to get the negative publicity of spoiling people's Bank Holiday.
Coalition ploy, intentional / otherwise, of causing mayhem yesterday in some quarters has worked.
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Sometimes its worth shaking the tree, see if theres really any loose fruit.
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So maybe Mr Cameroony was right after all...and played a blinder. Waiting for Zero's assessment to help me make up my mind :-)
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If they now change their minds about striking, they will never admit the government action had anything to do with it so it will be difficult to quantify how positive the intervention was.
Id bet that Labour, behind the scenes, are on bended knee asking Len to cut them some slack because the focus will swing right back to them should it go ahead. Cameron fired a bit early though in terms of hitting Labour with this. Should have waited for a date to be set, then fired all guns relentlessly.
I think its unlikely the strike will happen now.
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>> I think its unlikely the strike will happen now.
They don't need to do they, the chaos happened without them going on strike. I bet they get a large proportion of what they wanted.
He fired all guns at too long a range, the zulus kept on coming.
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>> So maybe Mr Cameroony was right after all...and played a blinder. Waiting for Zero's assessment
>> to help me make up my mind :-)
You are trying to find a bright brain cell in what looks like a dead wasps nest.
Its bought the government NOTHING, except universal bad publicity, in what has turned into cock-up week. No point shaking the tree when all that happens is the squirrels and birds poo on you.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 30 Mar 12 at 12:47
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-17560534
This really looks good for the Government.
Bang shot in foot.
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more like a good (but failed ) attempt to enter this years darwin awards.
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is this how terrorists work from home ?
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There are too many union bashing right wingers on here. Whenever there is a dispute in the news another thread springs up denouncing those nasty unions and the majority of posters take the employers or government stance. I suppose because they don't have the luxury of being in a union and are under the thumb of their employers or more often are self employed. Which only means that they're jealous. Union membership is not free. For £22 a month I get representation when the dirt hits the fan. Or my conditions are erroded. Unless you stick together you will get steam rollered by management. I suspect I'll be the only one on here that supports union action when it's needed, bearing in mind, these "strikes" are imposed following a democratic ballot, introduced by the Cons, and when the management and workforce break down in negotiations. Going on strike is not taken at the drop of a hat and it costs the individual worker money in their pockets.
The likes of Bob Crowe are paid by the membership to do the best job they can. If that sticks in the throat of managers or some of the red necks on here then tough. I bet you'd all like for someone to bat for you when being unfairly sacked, conditions changed or mistreated by management. That's what they do for my money. They earn it on my behalf.
God forbid if I had to work for some of you on here. You know who you are!
As I'm probably the sole poster with such an opinion on this site, I'll done the flake jacket, tin hat, bale out and wave cheerio.
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There needs to be a balance of power. One man's pay rise is another man's tax or price increase. On the other hand, before unions those without capital eked out a life often in desperate need.
That said, regulation now provides much of what the unions were formed to achieve, though workers in some industries are still unfairly exploited - that probably doesn't include the tanker drivers.
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>> There needs to be a balance of power. One man's pay rise is another man's
>> tax or price increase.
>>
Not neccessarily. One man's justifiable pay rise in response to rising productivity is to everybody's advantage.
One man's unjustified pay rise is the same man's company or industry declining and his job disappearing.
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>> For £22 a month I get representation when the dirt hits the fan. Or my
>> conditions are erroded. Unless you stick together you will get steam rollered by management.
When my pension was being attacked, I, and a large number of people, joined a union. It was a union chance to get into a completely union free environment.
They did nothing, even tho we offered to start a section.
Unions only exist to provide power, jobs and some of political influence for the union leadership. they have, almost universally in modern times, only achieved huge job losses and company liquidations.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 30 Mar 12 at 14:09
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Tanker strike - Volume 2 - movilogo
