www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17478331
Is this a true reflection of poor trading conditions or more because of the shift to internet retailing and the dominance of giant supermarkets (who are also expanding via the Interweb)?
Are town centres inevitably going to fade away?
I hope not, but on reflection most (probably way over 90%) of our household spending is done in supermarkets or 'mall' type shopping centres (other than energy/motoring costs obviously).
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It's a combination of stupid councils whacking up business rates and simultaneously driving away potential customers by making it impossible to park anywhere near a shop and internet retailing.
Town centres need to be somewhere to go for something other than shopping too.
I barely bother looking on anywhere other than amazon these days. It's just less trouble to buy anything from them than to schlep to a shop to pay more and be served by some uninterested youth.
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Walking around any town centre now has become like visiting an upmarket car boot sale.
Charity shops are side by side the length of many streets and whilst there is certainly a place for them, there still needs to be the ability to buy something new as well.
Town centres have become unpleasant places with the remains of the late night drinking culture all around, the probability of being relieved of your purse or wallet and the never ending collecters tins being rattled in front of you.
Why would anyone choose to visit?
Out of town centres provide parking free of charge, employ their own litter collectors and make it possible to buy a range of goos in one place.
Internet shopping does it for me though and I use it for almost everything I buy. The supermarket I use is an 18 mile round trip away and if I choose my time carefully I can have it delivered into my kitchen for £3.
Amazon has a great choice and a no quibble returns policy, all done politely and by email and money returned immediately....they still believe the customer is always right.
Unlike many town centre shop assistants who appear to be doing you a favour by serving you.
Pat
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I do use the local high street shops, but what puts me off more than anything else is the cost of using the local council's car parks and the cynical way in which perfectly safe, obstruction-free on-street parking was relatively recently removed in order to force shoppers to pay for their parking. There are still a few free on-street spots which I use if at all possible.
In town centre on a typical visit I use the bank (having a preference for paying cheques in to a real person) and often visit places like W.H.Smith, Boots and Holland & Barrett. I may have coffee at Caffe Nero. I do use the internet a lot for shopping and carrying out some financial transactions and probably I could get by without going in to town.
I also use out-of-town shops a lot - supermarkets, B&Q, Wickes, Homebase.
Probably my habits reflect my ambivalent attitude to buying stuff. Being male, I hate "shopping" for the sake of it and "retail therapy" I don't get at all. Being reasonably comfortable with technology I'm happy using the computer and being a mean old git who loves saving money I'm prepared to spend hours comparing prices. But I'm also old-fashioned enough to appreciate dealing with real people and seeing what I'm buying before I actually part with my money.
My town is Hemel Hempstead; it certainly has its share of empty shops and the number is definitely going up. I put this down to the fact that there's not a lot of money here and the hard times are biting, but shopping habits are changing too. However, pop over to nearby St Albans, with a different demographic, and you find very few closed shops and the thriving twice-weekly street market - surely one of the most old-fashioned ways to buy stuff. St Albans is also stuffed with pubs, bars and restaurants which seem busy during the day as well as at night.
What a contrast! I used to live in St Albans and sometimes wish I still did.
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>>>Walking around any town centre now has become like visiting an upmarket car boot sale.
Charity shops are side by side the length of many streets and whilst there is certainly a place for them, there still needs to be the ability to buy something new as well.<<<
FPs point of St Albans vs Hemel H is well made. The variability between different town centres in a relatively small area is surprising, but does tend reflect the (very) local demographic.
If you think Hemel H is bad, try Hatfield town centre - still waiting for the much deferred redevelopment. Most car-boot sales round here are a 'better' experience, with a better 'class' of customer and seller than Hafield!
Last edited by: pmh on Fri 23 Mar 12 at 07:16
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"If you think Hemel H is bad, try Hatfield town centre..."
I haven't been to Hatfield for ages and have little cause to. When I lived in St Albans (on the east side) the Galleria at Hatfield was the most convenient cinema location.
What Hemel Hempstead and Hatfield share is a common history of having once been charming little old towns which were blighted (some would say) by the New Town experiment of post-war years and now consist largely of acres of featureless, relatively cheap housing with satellite shopping centres.
I imagine Hatfield is further blighted by the indecision regarding the redevelopment of the town centre which you describe. But at least Hatfield is redeemed a little by the Galleria (a temple to consumerism if ever there was one), the University and Hatfield House. What has Hemel Hempstead got in comparison? Debenhams, the HH campus of West Herts College (which is largely moth-balled) and ... well, I can't actually come up with any stately home, museum, or historically significant building here. (Well, possibly St Mary's church, with its rather fine spire.)
Last edited by: FocalPoint on Fri 23 Mar 12 at 07:31
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>> Walking around any town centre now has become like visiting an upmarket car boot sale.
Not ours.
>> Charity shops are side by side the length of many streets ............
Not ours.
>> Town centres have become unpleasant places ...............
Not ours.
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Probably not L'es but not too far from you try taking a look at Kings Lynn, Dereham, Swaffham, Wisbech, March, Chatteris, Ramsey, Downham Market all smallish towns.
Bordering those are Cities...Lincoln, Peterborough, Norwich and Ely which seem to fare better.
One up for St Aphas, lets hope this pretty little town goes on to benefit the same way from it's City status.
Pat
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In our local town, in north Nottinghamshire, the relatively new shopping centre is rapidly losing shops, as one after the other, the owners give up. There is a very good traditional butchers shop there, though!
We have a market in the main street a couple of times a week, but it is mostly tat on sale. There are a plethora of charity shops and several different pawnshop/payday loan places, plus the awful Brighthouse shop conning un-creditworthy punters into unaffordable purchases.
The latest folly is a brand new cinema complex with 8 screens - this to serve a smallish town with higher than average unemployment, drink & drugs problems. (We are in an ex-mining area with high unemployment).
The local council persist in slapping potential town centre visitors with high parking charges - is it any wonder that serious shopping is done only a dozen miles away in Meadowhall, Sheffield, with abundant free parking and more national chain shops than may be counted?
Last edited by: Roger on Fri 23 Mar 12 at 07:49
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There are a plethora of charity shops
Oops - I'm going to be a pedant about my own grammar.
There IS a plethora......"
Duh - posting while eating bacon & eggs is my only excuse!
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Note to Pedants: Don't you dare...I will flounce;)
Pat
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Now I need to re-read what you put...
Ah... oh! And what on earth..? Really!
Sorry, Pat - I came over all schoolmasterish again! :-)
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No good complaining about the demise of town centres if you don't support them. Use them or lose them. It's that simple.
I remember sci-fi stories from my childhood which predicted the human race evolving into jelly-like beings in glass jars with no means of self propulsion because they had lost the need and will to do so.
Watch this space as they say...
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Years ago I went to a very pleasant market town on the Welsh border, Kington. All parking in the town was free and it still is, except that one car park charges £1.20 a day. I feel the same about parking charges as I do about 0845 phone numbers; if I am trying to spend money I don't like paying for parking or 5p a minute to discuss things!
www.herefordshire.gov.uk/council_gov_democracy/news/34460.asp
That's the way to do it!
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>> or 5p a minute to discuss things!<<
I expect you are aware of this website, but just in case you aren't...
www.saynoto0870.com/search.php
Plenty of 0800 numbers listed, as well.
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Oh Yes - I always go there but quite a lot of organsations don't feature
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It all depends on where you are. Here in well off Zeroville, Surrey, few empty shops, those that are get filled within 3 months. Tho it has to be said the last one empty is sticking empty.
Few charity shops to blight the district.
The same can be said for much of Surrey, and other richer areas. Take pats stomping ground for example. MArch is becoming a ghost town, but Stamford is still thriving. Oakham is starting to struggle since the nearby RAF base closed.
Its the length of the current economic downturn thats hurting.
Tho it has to be said, its a good chance to clear out those chains that were started, bought out, or running on borrowed money. Game is the latest "management buyout on borrowed money" failure.
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Two more internet shoppers here, if it wasn't for the independent butcher, Lidl and Morrisons we'd rarely visit the town, any town come to that.
Parking, driving within, ne'er do wells etc...no thanks.
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>> we'd rarely visit the town, any town come to that.
>>
>> Parking, driving within, ne'er do wells etc...no thanks.
For a man who dislikes his fellow man so much, we must be pretty honoured that you talk to us ;-)
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No complaints about the demise of town centres here.
Things evolve: why not shopping practices?
Why is it such an article of faith with some people that "traditional" town centres in the 21st. century are a good thing?
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You need to provide a pleasant experience, Coffee shops for example. Why do you think they are springing up everywhere. Shopping now includes a nice cup of coffee and a nice cake-y
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We try to support our local shops whenever we can, but with the superb service offered by Amazon and other internet based companies, increasingly more of our hard-earned is heading in that direction.
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You're lucky.The only decent town centres near(ish) me are Nantwich and Shrewsbury. With fuel prices being what they are it has become too expensive to visit the latter often even though the shopping is loads better there. Plenty of independent small shops and a good variety. The former isn't too bad and has decent cafes but the parking charges are creeping up if you can find a space at all as it the only decent place to shop locally.
I don't think people have the disposable income that they used to. They probably look more than they buy.
All the other nearby towns are just hideous. Empty shops, charity shops, gangs of weirdos and ne'r do wells hanging around, litter.
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>> It's a combination of stupid councils whacking up business rates and simultaneously driving away potential
Get your facts right Teabelly!
Local councils don't set the business rates. An executive branch of HMRC, The Valuation Office Agency determines rateable values and central government provide a rating multiplier by which rates bills are collected by the council.
Typically councils raise and collect the revenue which is passed straight to central government who in turn redistribute the wealth in the form of government grants to help boost the revenue collected by Council Tax payers based upon population.
An average council may raise £38 million in business rates but only receive £8 million back from the goverment in the form of grants. If Rate bills are putting business out, its your elected representitives who are to blame.
Interestingly, if a localism bill is passed in Parliament, then by next April local councils could have powers to set and collect a local rate and keep a higher proportion of it too. Locally set rates may then reflect local conditions and keep businesses alive.
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>> Are town centres inevitably going to fade away? I hope not, >>
No use hoping. Nostalgia won't save these expensive unsustainable relics of a bygone age. Town centres are doomed for all the reasons given by you and others in this thread.
Planning regulations need to change to allow these empty properties to be converted to housing use.
The wheels of bureaucracy grind very slowly in Britain, and by the time Councils and Government wake up and take positive action, it will be too late to save the derelict buildings. Enough of negativity, here are some images to cheer you up:
New Town - www.paperclip.org.uk/Cumbernauld/abronhill.htm
www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=3e72c1948aa3b29f2c779951addd67e9&t=484897
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You might think Bath (where I work) would be ok, but:
wosland.podgamer.com/this-is-bath/
I certainly miss the music shop, which was about 20 yards from the office - used to get cheap clarinet reeds there. Very 'traditional' shop, which perhaps is why it failed.
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According to Sky News, about one in seven high street shops is standing empty and it's going up. The actual figure is 14.6% and that is an all-time high, the article says.
tinyurl.com/7llout6
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Record number of empty shops - teabelly
