I'd like some opinions on an incident that happened to me today and some reassurance please.
At 10.52 this morning I went to a cashpoint and drew out some cash.
At 11.59 I was in a local farm shop butchers department to restock the freezer.
I wanted to pay with my debit card but as soon as it was put in the machine it came up with PIN blocked.
The owner tried this three times with the same message each time.
I eventually paid with by cash, and as we're regular customers and are known to the Farm Shop, I left with his phone number and instructions to call him after I had got home and rung my bank.
On the way home we had to pass the same cashpoint as earlier so decided to try again and see what was going on.
At 12.24 the cash point worked without a problem.
When I got home I rang the bank to be told that there was no problem with my card and it wasn't blocked, and there was ample funds for all of the transactions.
I persistently had to ask what had happened and was told eventually that the farm shop terminal could have been faulty.
I then insisted they checked to see if the three attempts had been recorded.
I was shocked to find that all three attempts had been debited from my account without me even entering a PIN number.
I rang the farm shop who immediately reversed the transactions, but I still feel uneasy that anyone could have a faulty terminal and make repeated attempts to make it work, while knowing it would be debiting the account WITHOUT a PIN number ever being entered.
Has anyone else come across this and am I right to be concerned?
Pat
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The facility to process a payment without the account holder being present has always been there (that's how you buy stuff over the phone or t'internet) but does appear odd in a shop.
Has the farm shop had any visits to "upgrade" their equipment lately ? That's when the garage forecourts usually have problems.
What were the times of the transactions, do they match the time you were there or were they later ?
Last edited by: gmac on Sat 1 Oct 11 at 18:16
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Switch to Smile Pat - Human beings based in Manchester. Good bank.
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Mrs ON had a debit card indicate that it was blocked when she tried to use it, as she was near our bank she went in and queried it. They said that they had not blocked it, a retailers reader must have done it. The answer was to put the card in the banks ATM, enter its Pin No, select "Pin services" and "unblock card". This worked. There was always enough cash in the account to cover any transactions, and no unexplained transactions.
I would not have been pleased if there were any rouge transactions.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 1 Oct 11 at 18:46
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>> I would not have been pleased if there were any rouge transactions.
They're the ones that will put you in the red, presumably?
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>> >> I would not have been pleased if there were any rouge transactions.
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>> They're the ones that will put you in the red, presumably?
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I see you have escaped from the pedants playground.
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>> The
>> answer was to put the card in the banks ATM, enter its Pin No, select
>> "Pin services" and "unblock card". This worked.
>>
You mean a thief with a stolen card who knows the PIN can unblock it?
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Sounds like operator error. Were they small transactions (less than £15)? If it's a contactless card (it will say on the face) and terminal it's possible to transact without a PIN.
www.worldpay.com/contactless/content.php?page=how
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ive had this pin blocked fiasco too. cash machine in the shop worked fine but when i went to use the shop pin reader it came up blocked, i declined the use of their atm as there was a charge of £1.75 to get at my own cash...no thanks
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I can help here, Patty.
If you send me your card and PIN, I'll see if it works OK in some of the cash machines round here.
Or just your number, security code and expiry date will do ! :-)
Ted
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I bank with the Co-op, also based in Manchester and real live people on the end of the phone.
The transactions were just under £50, and there isn't any point in doing the cash machine unblock PIN thingy, because in the cash machine the PIN and card are working fine.
I had a phone call from the farm shop last night after they had cashed up.
Apparently they get a read out of all the days transactions on their terminal for the day and the three transactions using my card were listed as no money having been taken.
Her theory is that it's in what she calls banking no mans land and won't ever appear as a debit on my account or be creideted to them.
I hope she's right, but I shall be watching my internet banking closely this week.
I'm still concerned that a card put into a faulty machine can grab almost £150 of your money and put it somewhere where you can't access it, WITHOUT a PIN being used.
IMHO it makes a complete mockery of all the hype about protecting your PIN number.
Pat
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I'd have been worried as well Pat.
Other places where you don't need to enter your PIN are the M6 Toll and some of Reading's card park payment machines.
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When I bought a car, paying in person for the balance (over 10 grand), the chap I'd bought the car from used the "customer not present" method of debit to avoid the inevitable 15 minute phone call to India.
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Co-Op and Smile are the same - have you spoken to them yet ?
I think the farm-shop chap maybe right that the payments have been initially processed and they will be deleted.
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Yes, it's in my original post:)
I've also checked my account this morning and none of the transactions are showing, but neither is the Tesco home delivery showing that I had on Friday either yet.
Pat
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Pat,
Do Co-Op show an available as well as a ledger balance?
Find with Santander that available drops almost immediately a transactionis processed; certainly no later than overnight. The money's still in my account but it's been 'earmarked' for a transaction in processing and is no longer available to draw.
Can usually reconcile the two but it involves netting out my authorised overdraft and any credit cheques in clearing to get to the sum of outstanding debits. My guess is if you do that you'll find the Tesco shop and the failed farmshop x/actions.
What you describe happened to me once. Wouldn't have mattered for a bit of shopping but the transaction was my annual rail season!! so available balance went deep into o/d territory. Only lasted a couple of days as 'uncollected' earmarks expire but long enough without access to cash and with DD's bouncing. All were put right ans charges refunded but it took half a morning when I should have been working to sort out.
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There's a phrase, which I cannot bring to mind, used in the banking industry which describes what's happening here.
The 'banking no man's land' mentioned by the shop is along the right lines.
If today was a business day and Pat wanted to empty her account in cash, she would only be able to get the balance, less the farmshop transactions - and less the Tesco one for that matter.
But in two or three days she would be able to get the money from the false farmshop transactions, but not, of course, the Tesco one.
I would be concerned, same as Pat, but I think if she does nothing it will come right in a few days.
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>>Do Co-Op show an available as well as a ledger balance? <<
No they don't.
My Natwest business account does and it's very handy.
I'm sure it will come right and I have no worries with the Farm Shop either but I really didn't realise it was possible for that to happen.
Going to eat the roast beef quickly now today if it was that expensive:)
Pat
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Hello Pat we bank with the Co-op and have had no problems.We keep all the receipts and ring the bank if there is any problem.Like you say somebody to talk to on the phone.
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It might have something to do with the fact that (despite being a 24x7 international service) banks dont "work" on weekends. With a lot of British banks a debit taken out on a saturday, wont appear on a statement till Monday (with Saturdays date - if that makes sense)
So transactions, debits and credits, wont add up till Monday, when it all gets added up in the wash.
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For all their faults - and there are many- Spanish banks have a hugely better system of recording debits to one's account.
A grocery shopping trip, paid for by debit card for instance, would be showing as a debit on our bank account by the time we got home.
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Usually the same in France. And cheques are often cleared in a day.
All the toll machines I've ever used on French autoroutes, not to mention the car park at Limoges airport, which only operates with cards, don't take PIN numbers.
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Sun 2 Oct 11 at 10:41
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Debit card doubts. - ....
