| Non-motoring > Knights of the Road | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Pat | Replies: 34 |
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 18:21
Knights of the Road - Pat
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Well we used to be, but sadly that isn't how we're seen anymore. What went wrong? I'm sticking my head above the parapet here and asking for some answers. I'd like to do some research for my DCPC Training sessions. We do a section on customer care and the publics perception of a lorry driver. The old hands all say to me 'But Pat, we used to be seen as Knights of the road and now they all hate us' I can't in all honesty disagree with them, so what's happened in the last 20 years to change that image so much? I try so hard to explain how important it is to be seen as professional, I put it to them that at all times, they are representing the firm whose name is written on the vehicle, and on their uniform. I'm struggling to convince them though so where did we, as lorry drivers go wrong? Pat |
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 18:27
Knights of the Road - Zero
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You wont like this Pat, but in my 36 years of driving they have never been seen as Knights of the road by my peers and contemporaries. >I try so hard to explain how important it is to be seen as professional, I put it to them that >at all times, they are representing the firm whose name is written on the vehicle, and on >their uniform. >I'm struggling to convince them though Its quite simple really. Tell them - Transport is a cut throat business. If their employer looses a contract because of bad publicity or user experiences, their job goes west with it. |
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 18:30
Knights of the Road - Bellboy
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when wagons got more powerful and a large percentage of drivers started behaving as bullies im afraid a driver tried to run me off the road last year on the m62 for no other reason than i was in a strange car with trade plates on and wanted to do 60mph in it so the lorry driver had to overtake me,i still wonder why he wanted to run up my chuff rather than pass me? |
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 18:36
Knights of the Road - Pat
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>>>>If their employer looses a contract because of bad publicity or user experiences, their job goes west with it. <<< We do that bit...........68% of business is lost because of one single incident. We also do the bit about using the size of the vehicle to bully other road users. But they always say to me that way back when, we used to get a cheery wave if we pulled in to let a car pass, now we get a rude gesture if we're broken down and in the way. I'm trying to stay neutral here because I need to see this from both sides. Pat |
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 18:32
Knights of the Road - John H
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>> I can't in all honesty disagree with them so what's happened in the last 20 >> years to change that image so much? >> >> I'm struggling to convince them though so where did we as lorry drivers go wrong? >> >> Pat >> Do you have any statistics for the changing number of foreign plated lorries on UK roads in a given day, week, month or year over the last 20 years? Publish those here and maybe some link can be made there. |
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 18:43
Knights of the Road - Pat
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You may well have something there John. The average car driver wouldn't notice the difference between a british or foreign lorry, and the standard of driving of some countries is a lot lower than ours. I hope this is politically correct and allowed to say this on here, but British lorry drivers are beginning to realise that the simple good manners and willingness to get on with the job without complaint, that's the work ethic of EU drivers, has become a threat to their jobs. That in itself is helping some to modify their attitude. Pat |
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 18:47
Knights of the Road - Runfer D'Hills
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Well now, I've been sharing road space for around 1000 miles a week with truck drivers for a very very long time. By and large I have no complaints other than the stupid ten minute overtakes holding everyone else up. Apart from that little moan I find the majority are safe and courteous. As with any highly visible sub-group though the few can tend to spoil the reputation of the many. Most truckers are very good, some are not. In exactly the same way as other motoring stereotypes get a bad press ( Think BMWs, women drivers, sales reps, 4x4s....the list goes on... ) The few who live up to the negative prejudices in any group serve only to confirm and feed the willing suspicisions of the natural bigot. |
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 19:00
Knights of the Road - -
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The big change in the last 20 years is that trucks are no longer hard to drive, and you don't have to be a proper truck driver to operate one, as against drive it. I started on the big stuff in the 70's, tail end of the old era with rough old motors that had no air assistance of anything, no power steering, crash boxes and we roped and sheeted our loads often after hand balling 20 tons onto a flat deck in the pouring rain. There was also little money in it unless you were born into the right family to get one of the few dead mans shoes jobs going, to make good money you worked all hours God sent and lived like a tramp...hence the old term tramping. Fewer and fewer old school proper lorry drivers left out there, many of the newer drivers didn't come up through the ranks or the hard way, they used their redundancy money to get an easy well paid job as they saw it, and in some cases had their training paid for by the state. Many started driving trucks when it became easy, and don't have any pride in their job or their courteous treatment of other road users, and use the vehicle as a weapon in many cases to bully their way about. Not all obviously and there's some decent people still doing the job, but a badly driven truck stands out a mile and we all get tarred with the same brush. I suppose the standards of behaviour only reflect the standards of behaviour of car/bike/bus drivers and indeed pedestrians as thats what many present truck licence holders were but a few months previously, courtesy long gone and maybe seen as weakness by some, accidentally jostle someone in the street/pub where it would have been a mutual 'sorry' is now possibly a reason for someone to get violent, same on the road. Car drivers courtesy is disappearing too, make room, put yourself out for several car drivers and the chances are the driver of the 5 series Beemer is the only one likely to acknowledge, yes i find BMW drivers to be among the most courteous on the road. Situation, following a line of traffic t'other day behind a tractor, the tractor driver pulled into a clearing to allow us to go by, mine was the only toot of the hooter heard and mine the only hand i saw raised in thanks, reciprocated by the surprised chap. Courtesy and manners cost nothing and has it's own rewards, i doubt we'll see it's resurgence, but the odd times encountered are a treat. |
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 18:41
Knights of the Road - Iffy
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Firstly Pat, your post, as ever, has something of the bunker mentality 'everybody hates us' about it. That is simply not the case. Moving on to your question, I don't think lorry drivers have gone badly wrong. The change in peoples' attitude towards them is symptomatic of a general change in society. Rudeness, coarseness, aggression and deceitfulness are all more common in all walks of life than they once were. Swearing is just one example. We now have a celebrity chef whose stock in trade is not a brilliant execution of a tarte tartin, but the 'f' word. He even calls his television programme after it. That would have been unthinkable 20 years ago. Last edited by: ifithelps on Thu 18 Mar 10 at 18:41
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 18:47
Knights of the Road - Pat
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>>>Firstly Pat, your post, as ever, has something of the bunker mentality 'everybody hates us' about it.<<< This is the feedback I get from them though, and it's what I have to work hard to get rid of. If they respect themselves then others will respect them a little more. Pat |
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 18:55
Knights of the Road - Zero
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I have never seen a petrol tanker bully or tailgate anyone else. The driving by tanker drivers, seems, on the whole, to be exemplary. Ask your guys who think people hate them, how they justify blocking off the outside lane of a dual carriageway in a queue, preventing people passing and filtering in further down the road. And then ask them if they think that might have something to do with it. Personally, I think the "knights of the road" thing is a throwback to the 30's 40's and 50's. EDIT - I think the pressure of the job now shows in thier driving and road attitude. Last edited by: Zero on Thu 18 Mar 10 at 18:56
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 19:00
Knights of the Road - Pat
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They will tell me that when a car driver sees a queue in the nearside lane that car, and most of the others too, will go right to the front of the queue in the offside lane and then barge in front. This is fine for the car driver, but it renders the inside lane as nothing more than a car park and we sit there like lemons getting nowhere fast and a tacho clocking away at our driving time. Whether it good practice or not, as soon as a lorry pulls out and does that we all start to move again. Surely a case for merge in turn or zip merge signs to be placed at 2 and one mile intervals on the approach so we can all use both lanes and merge fairly. Pat |
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 19:06
Knights of the Road - Zero
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>getting nowhere fast and a tacho clocking away at our driving time and there, perhaps, you have one of the reasons for your dilema. |
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 20:03
Knights of the Road - Statistical Outlier
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Zero, I take my hat off to any truck that does as you suggest. It works wonders to stop the pushy idiots clogging the road up for everyone by forcing in at the front. It's a shame it's necessary, if everyone zipped properly it would all work much better, but it's better than nothing. Pat, as for your question, I think the answer is that everyone tends to forget their hours of positive interactions, and just remembers the idiot that tries to force them off the road in a SPECS limit, or spends 10 minutes overtaking on the A14 for a couple of seconds gain. It's human nature to dwell on the bad experience. What can be done? Well, possibly some sort of automated machine gun station for any truck 10 cm off the car in front's bumper in a SPECS zone? Although that might be a bit lenient? Failing that, we could actually have more traffic police to enforce things other than just speeding? A radical idea obviously, but it could work.. Would help drive the general standard of driving up, and not just in any one group of drivers. |
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 20:58
Knights of the Road - BobbyG
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Pat, there are a lot of jobs now that people look down on .Take a supermarket worker. Years ago in your local co-op they would have been one of your neighbours probably, could maybe get things on 'tic, everyone knew everyone else. Nowadays if you work in a supermarket most customers treat you like scum and I am guessing that part of that is they have had a bad day and need to take it out on others. But as has been mentioned, if you mention lorries to many folks, they will think of the long overtakes or the bullying. Very few realise that without them there would be no food on the table! But reassure them, its not just lorry drivers that are disliked! |
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New Thu 18 Mar 10 22:56
Knights of the Road - Badwolf
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Well, I see that you finally plucked up the courage Pat :-) |
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New Fri 19 Mar 10 01:41
Knights of the Road - Armel Coussine
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It may be different now, with different roads and bigger trucks, but I doubt if there's a real fundamental change from my youth forty-plus years ago when I did a lot of hitching and travelled in many trucks. Of course the drivers were very varied. Many were taciturn. Anyway much conversation was tiring because the noise level was high. Nearly to a man though - they were all men I'm afraid Pat - they had a responsible attitude to their work and other road users and were careful, canny, often quite rapid drivers. Some in fact were downright sporting (freewheeling well over the governed maximum of their steeds). There are so many vehicles of every sort these days, it must be a bit different. Lorries must be a lot more user-friendly too, quiet and with power steering and potentially quite fast. But no employer with half a brain is going to put n grand's worth of truck with their name on it and n grand's worth of cargo in the hands of some dodgy twerp. Stands to reason squire dunnit? My life, and certainly my car were saved once on the A34 by the quick thinking and amazing awareness of what was coming at him from behind far too fast in the rain and darkness (I freely admit although it was an honest mistake on my part rather than sheer recklessness) by aborting his emergence from a layby and bounding his heavily loaded truck over the high bumpy verge, I saw out of the corner of my eye, and heard, as I squeezed past braking as heavily as I dared... Wanted to stop and thank him, but thought better not. I posted this story on HJ once and Zero under one of his multifarious aliases argued that the lorry driver had nearly caused the accident. But he hadn't. It was me and the A34 evening eager beaver commuters going even faster than me, between us. The man saved my bum and I thank him again. Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 19 Mar 10 at 01:44
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New Fri 19 Mar 10 06:32
Knights of the Road - Pat
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Yes badwolf, I need some valid arguments for the 10 I have to teach today! Pat |
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New Fri 19 Mar 10 06:54
Knights of the Road - Pat
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There are some really good points above and a lot I hadn't thought of. I was around in the early days that GB talks of where you handballed your load on and then had to rope and sheet it. It was very hard and one thing we all had in common was the fact that we were totally knackered. So much so that we empathised with each other and helped out. It's long been my ideal for us all to do the job in a professional manner and to take pride in what we do, but sadly a lot of newer drivers will say that it's just a job, a way of paying the mortgage, and their idea is to do as little work as possible and earn as much money as they can. I've always thought that because I spend so much of my life at work, I might as well try and enjoy it and I have done. I've just been asked to teach roping and sheeting and safe loading for another much bigger training company because they have no-one who can do it. The arthritic hands will suffer because I won't be able to resist a dolly or pigs ear in demonstration, but I wouldn't miss the chance for anything:) A greater awareness for us all ( car, lorry motorbike, cycle) of others on the road would be a start with a far more active police force actually on the roads would help. I can remember when a police car would pull up a lorry driver and congratulate them on their good driving, no doubt they did it for car drivers too. It never happened to me but it was what we all strove to achieve. It's also a mark of the respect for the forum members on here that I feel able to ask these questions! Pat Last edited by: pda on Fri 19 Mar 10 at 06:56
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New Fri 19 Mar 10 07:47
Knights of the Road - L'escargot
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| I find that truck drivers are generally much more aware of what traffic is around them, and they are much more likely to show their appreciation (by use of winkers etc) of any courtesy afforded them by other motorists. I like truck drivers. |
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New Fri 19 Mar 10 07:50
Knights of the Road - Pat
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Thank you L'es, but it's so good for us too when a car driver does the same. A wave, flash of the indicators or even a toot on the horn is good. It doesn't matter if you don't get it 'right', we'll know what you mean! Pat |
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New Fri 19 Mar 10 08:48
Knights of the Road - -
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I had another little thunk back to my early days. I started with general haulage companies as most young drivers did, carrying all sorts of loads some of which needed special handling and securing and indeed driving techniques, and there would always be a mentor. Thats one important thing thats missing now, even older school mentor's, drivers that have been doing the job in all it's guises for most of their lives. Dennis Cowell took me under his wing in my first job and taught me much and i listened, he knew where the transport cafe girls sported seams, old Lymm cafe by the way..;) Most old school companies had these fellows who didn't mind showing us youngsters the ropes, hardly needed now not much to learn to fasten a container to a trailer, but it was an approach and a behaviour maybe that came across as we yearned to be accepted by these wise old hands, that came from the real Knights of the road days. I'd not have learned in quite the same way without this 'apprenticeship', i respected and wanted to be like him i suppose, he was popular with customers and had his own regular work which he made sure i covered when he was away. Dennis died of a heart attack a few years later, why is it the good ones? Armel's post about his days of hitching around does describe the older days well, we spent a lot of time in Irish overdrive, and got a move on but were far more aware of whats going on, swung the trailer a few times as well to see if a crafty plod had snuck up behind on a bike, generally didn't get nicked by the equally old school bobbies either, so long as you spotted them quickly and showed respect by slowing down gradually to the limit and passed the attitude test if stopped. |
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New Fri 19 Mar 10 09:01
Knights of the Road - L'escargot
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Maintaining my lifestyle depends much more on truck drivers than on car drivers. Without truck drivers, shops and stores would be empty. I need truck drivers much more than I need other car drivers.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 19 Mar 10 at 09:02
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New Fri 19 Mar 10 10:32
Knights of the Road - Badwolf
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>> Maintaining my lifestyle depends much more on truck drivers than on car drivers. Without truck >> drivers shops and stores would be empty. I need truck drivers much more than I >> need other car drivers. Excellent point, Les. I find that, on the whole, truck drivers are very good at their job. Almost as good as bus drivers... ;-) Seriously, I have a fair idea of how hard it is to manouevre a large, heavy vehicle around even if the ones I drive don't bend in the middle (if they do, something has gone badly awry) so I always try to give ample consideration to truck drivers, both Class 1 and 2. Generally, I find that this consideration is repaid in spades to me when I'm behind the wheel of my bus. I'm amazed, though, by the thoughtlessness of some car drivers. To me, it's fairly obvious that, if a lorry swings over to one side of the road with the hazards on then it's going to attempt a reversing manouevre. Sadly, so many car drivers just carry on a squeeze past the back end of the lorry even once it has started reversing. And that's not the only example of a lack of consideration. On the motorway it isn't unusual to see some numpty in a car dive into the gap in between two lorries trundling along in lane one, the driver blissfully unaware that the lorry he has just cut up can't stop on a sixpence. I've said it before but I do think that all learner drivers should have to have some experience of driving larger vehicles as part of their training. |
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New Fri 19 Mar 10 10:57
Knights of the Road - -
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>> that if a lorry swings over to one side of the road with the hazards >> on then it's going to attempt a reversing manouevre. Sadly so many car drivers just >> carry on a squeeze past the back end of the lorry even once it has >> started reversing. Thats always a problem BW, and if the reverse is into a dealer on the offide it's job to know once you start to bend it (ooer) if a car has closed up into the space you will need to straighten the front end up, as the car will be invisible for some considerable time/distance. My own technique is to approach the dealer (in my case) with right hand indicator flashing, i give a few hazard flashes interspersed during my approach, and switch to full time hazards about 5 seconds before the road clears and i'm going to make the move. Trouble is i have to swing over to right hand side and then as the back end passes the entrance start to pull the front end over the road, both to make the move and to semi block the road momentarily till i can persuade the automated manual box from hell to give me a reverse gear some seconds later when it feels like it. Best suicidal overtake whilst i was waiting for oncoming traffic to clear to offside reverse into dealer was at Citroen Shrewsbury, i'm at the point of no return with a line of vehicles behind me, the first of which has twigged and is holding back..top bloke..as my space clears a white van overtakes all the vehicles behind me and me and just misses the oncoming traffic...brilliant, never a plod around to see them is there cos they really need educating. |
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New Sat 20 Mar 10 04:17
Knights of the Road - Pat
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Well it would appear I've got the 'early crew' this week. I knew I shouldn't have uttered those fateful words 'I'll be flexible' when I asked them to vote on a start time for today! At 6am we will be discussing your points on customer care and the publics perception of a lorry driver. Back later! Pat |
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New Sat 20 Mar 10 06:50
Knights of the Road - L'escargot
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>> I've said it before but I do think that all learner drivers should have to >> have some experience of driving larger vehicles as part of their training. >> About ten years ago I was fortunate to be able to take part in a track day (organised by my employer) driving three types of HGV, one of them articulated with a full load of concrete blocks. It certainly opened my eyes. |
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New Sat 20 Mar 10 11:07
Knights of the Road - Zero
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I will be getting a few quid later in the year, and I have always fancied this idea - How much does it cost to take lessons and get your HGV these days? No intention of doing it for a living but it would be fun to get the license. |
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New Sat 20 Mar 10 11:19
Knights of the Road - -
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>> I will be getting a few quid later in the year and I have always >> fancied this idea - How much does it cost to take lessons and get your >> HGV these days? £1500 to about £2500 if you pass both first time assuming you want class 1, you are in a better position than many as you've got the funds and can take adavantage of any intensive courses on offer, good luck with it if you do. When times are good there's often weekend and night agency supermarket and similar work going should you fancy it, keeps your hand in and some reasonable readies to be made. Pat will no doubt advise maybe cryptically maybe straight who to avoid for training, as with many things some unscrupulous middle men about, via her forum i'd think she knows who the good and bad guys are. |
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New Sat 20 Mar 10 11:49
Knights of the Road - Zero
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>> When times are good there's often weekend and night agency supermarket and similar work going >> should you fancy it keeps your hand in and some reasonable readies to be made. Sounds like a plan if I get bored or want to fund an exotic holiday, I could cope with a couple of nights a week or the odd weekend a month. Last edited by: Zero on Sat 20 Mar 10 at 11:50
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New Sun 21 Mar 10 05:04
Knights of the Road - Pat
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If you do decide to go ahead Zero, just email me before you book anything. My email is available in my profile. There are those who make impossible claims, want you to pay upfront and then go bust. Always pay with a credit card for this type of thing. If, on the other hand you just want to have a bit of a drive in a fully loaded artic, I can help:) The PDA do an annual training day at my old firm. It's aimed at just passed, or wanting to try, lorry drivers. We'll get you driving up and down the yard, turning round, reversing and picking up and dropping off trailers. We'll teach you to rope and sheet, and master an assortment of gearboxes. ( we'll even guarantee you'll be able to swear like a lorry driver by the end of it!) We all give our time up voluntarily, and my old Boss gives us his yard and all his expensive equipment voluntarily too, and trusts us! You can even come incognito if you like, just hang a camera around your neck and you can be a reporter for the day. It's fun, it's rewarding and it's one way to get a little taste of driving an artic off the road. Pat |
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New Sun 21 Mar 10 10:07
Knights of the Road - Zero
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Hey Pat, that sounds like a good idea. I am often up round the flatlands (as you guessed) When is the annual training day? (oh I dont need the swearing module, I have a doctorate in "applied verbal abuse") |
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New Sun 21 Mar 10 10:16
Knights of the Road - Pat
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August 28th which is August Bank Holiday Saturday. It gives us all an extra day to get over it:) Pat |
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New Sun 21 Mar 10 11:32
Knights of the Road - Zero
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Thanks Pat - I will drop you a line. Might even deposit 50 quid into your favourtite charity. ToFNOLD is it? (the 'ome for knackered old lorry drivers) |
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New Sun 21 Mar 10 16:52
Knights of the Road - Pat
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That'll be the one:) I'll give you a nudge nearer the time! Pat |
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