Non-motoring > Coronavirus - Volume 34
Thread Author: VxFan Replies: 103

 Coronavirus - Volume 34 - VxFan

Ongoing debate.

626647
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 24 Mar 21 at 12:17
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - No FM2R
Chile is going back into Quarantine. So far this week about 14m out of 19m are now in quarantine, I guess the rest will follow shortly.

The reason for this is that there are almost no ICU beds available. Not surprising.

What is surprising is that there is nobody over the age of 70 in ICU. Patients under 50 in the ICU have grown by 94% in the last month and they represent 24% of the beds in use.

Each day of the new patients entering ICU 42% are under 50.

Now that's not good news since they are 2 or 3 weeks from vaccinating 40 - 50yrs and then you can add a few weeks for protection to be achieved.

www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/2021/03/21/1015522/pacientes-uci-menores-50-anos.html
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Lygonos
>> What is surprising is that there is nobody over the age of 70 in ICU

Very ill over 70s either don't get in in the first place, or die quick, as well as having vaccine protection (and at least in the UK do a better job of keeping away from covidiots).

Under 50s can last months on a ventilator.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 23 Mar 21 at 21:26
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - No FM2R
>>Under 50s can last months on a ventilator.

That is a point I hadn't considered. Is there any information on length of COVID-19 ICU stay?
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - tyrednemotional
>>Is there any information on length of COVID-19
>> ICU stay?
>>

It takes a bit of wading through, but the regularly updated Icnarc report I've referenced before gives quite a lot of insight into the statistics for England, Wales and NI.

www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/8b3a0f95-de88-eb11-912e-00505601089b
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - No FM2R
b***** hell, there goes my afternoon. From first look it appears very good though, so thank you.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - tyrednemotional
...be aware that, while it spills out over the edges, its main focus is ICU, rather than general healthcare experience.

Updated daily, I think, with the latest downloadable from the link on this page:

www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Terry
If ICU is close to full capacity, a way to decide who gets the available beds is needed.

So do the doctors decide - or in some places it may be whoever has the biggest wedge or influence.

I suspect using scarce ICU beds for those most likely to recover would be the rational choice - I assume the under 50s have a far better outcome than the over 70s!
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - No FM2R
>>If ICU is close to full capacity, a way to decide who gets the available beds is needed.

There is no chance of a decision process working or being accepted in Chile. It will be first come, first served.

And I think it's probably better that way.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Lygonos
>>I suspect using scarce ICU beds for those most likely to recover would be the rational choice - I assume the under 50s have a far better outcome than the over 70s!

I would expect a combination of risk/survivability factors are taken into account, including discussion with the patient.

A large number of people with severe Covid are entirely alert despite being at death's door.

Very old/frail patients may/should be offered palliation rather than a protracted ICU stay with the possibility of survival and the likelihood of being increasingly disabled after even if they survive.

"Ceiling of Care" is the euphemism that appears to be used these days (eg. "ward level" would mean not for ICU). The same decisions are made every day, to be fair, even in General Practice - a failing care home resident may have a slim chance of recovery with full bhuna hospital care but it might not be in the patient's best interest (transfer to acute ward, different environment and staff, unpleasant treatments, etc). Best practice is of course to discuss with the patient, or to know the patient's wishes if they are unable to make an informed decision.

Almost everyone on a ventilator for any length of time suffers pneumonias and many suffer clots/strokes/sepsis/kidney failure before they perhaps recover, to wake up having had a tracheostomy and their bodies generally pretty wrecked.

 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - No FM2R
There is a fundamental difference between deciding which of two patients should be transferred to ICU [a decision no doubt made often with beds, organs etc. etc. and related to the best survival rate for the moment] and whether or not a particular patient should be transferred to an available bed in ICU because he might be blocking someone with a better chance tomorrow. [which is a deliberate guess, or playing of God because of the rules].
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Lygonos
>> There is a fundamental difference....

Indeed - I'm not privy to the guidelines followed by ICU consultants in managing their units. I suspect a "freedom of information" request for such would be kicked into the long grass until after the pandemic has receded.

Nothing normal about the impact of Covid in ICU - even the worst Flu years don't come close to the devastation (at least in my memory - wasn't here in 1968/69).

General practice has come through relatively unscathed compared to some hospital units and their staff.


www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56472115


"There have been times when I've come home and had a good cry, because we have witnessed so much… we're at the patient's bedside 12 hours a day and they haven't had that usual psychological support from their families.

"So we've been there… and got to know them as people, their likes and dislikes, their dreams; and then they've become really unwell and been placed on ventilators and quite often they haven't got through that.

"And that's been difficult because personally I've felt a bond to my patients, and to witness them not progress as we would wish, that's been really hard."

She has now described seeing coronavirus patients die as a "burden" she has to bear. In normal times, she might lose a patient in intensive care once every two weeks, but during the pandemic several were dying every day.

In the last wave over winter, she said more died than survived.

"I was once working in a pod where there were four patients with Covid," she said.

"I left my shift at 20:00 in the evening. When I returned the next day all the patients had died, and were replaced with different people… although it's hard bearing this burden, you don't become desensitised - if you do, it's time to give up the profession."



"1% is all we can afford" yet we can buy more Trident we'll never use.

The PM really is a complete dick.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 25 Mar 21 at 00:50
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - No FM2R
>>The PM really is a complete dick.

Sadly, he really is.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Haywain
" The PM really is a complete dick. ...
Sadly, he really is."

But the EU incompetents succeed in making him appear a genius ...... (from the Telegraph)

EU's 'most embarrassing' day: How the story behind the vaccine factory raid unravelled
Italian elite unit found millions of AstraZeneca doses thought to be meant for the UK - but their destination was the EU itself

It was an extraordinary story – the European Commission had turned detective to find AstraZeneca's secret stockpile of vaccines reserved for Britain.

During a surprise raid over the weekend, an elite unit of Italian military police acting on EU orders discovered 29 million jab doses hoarded at a factory near Rome.

The discovery appeared to confirm the EU's long-held suspicion that AstraZeneca was giving the UK special treatment, secretly exporting doses to its home country while failing to deliver on contracts agreed with Brussels.

Yet, as EU officials admitted on Wednesday, the allegation, briefed to the Continental press, simply wasn't true.

In fact, most of the doses discovered in the Italian factory were destined for the EU itself, with the remainder headed for poorer countries across the world.

One former Europe minister called it possibly the "most embarrassing day in the EU's history".

Fidiots indeed.

 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - sooty123
I think this bit 'most embarrassing day in the EU's history" is a bit strong.

However this bit 'Yet, as EU officials admitted on Wednesday, the allegation, briefed to the Continental press, simply wasn't true' is the worst bit. Embarrassing.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Thu 25 Mar 21 at 09:41
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - CGNorwich
AstroZeneca has run into one problem after another. All the stories have proved groundless but have damaged the reputation of the Company . Its almost as if it is in someone's interest to blacken their name. I wonder who could be responsible what with them looking set to dominate the field with the cheapest, most easily handled and equally effective vaccine

Surley he possibility that if Astro Zeneca become the dominant player thier competitotrs could lose billions of dollars.has nothing to do with it.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Haywain
"AstroZeneca has run into one problem after another"

So, is it EU incompetence, or EU corruption?

or both?
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - CGNorwich
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56521166
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - smokie
I've hidden some responses to this as it strayed off topic too far - so don't go looking elsewhere for them at the moment.

Feel free to mail the mods if you feel aggrieved by this and I'll call a mods meeting to review.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - No FM2R
That seems a sensible decision that shouldn't cause anybody to feel aggrieved.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 25 Mar 21 at 13:59
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - sooty123
www.france24.com/en/europe/20210322-lockdown-confusion-france-s-new-covid-19-rules-raise-questions-satisfy-few

An article about the situation in France, I thought it pretty good. The Fr Gov does seem reluctant to call this a lockdown, I would imagine they are worried about riots etc as they have form for it over there.
They have switched from not wanting mass vaccination centres to now being in favour, similar the French government advice has switched to AZ only being for over 55s instead of the under 55s.

Everything points to them getting hit pretty hard over the next month or so.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Falkirk Bairn
Micron says the EU moved too slowly
Praises the USA but could not mention the UK efforts


Daily Mail

Emmanuel Macron has delivered an humiliating mea culpa on the EU's vaccine bungling as leaders gather for a crunch summit today.

The French president admitted that the bloc did not go 'fast enough or strong enough' on the drive for jabs, saying it thought they would take longer to develop.

But Mr Macron seemingly could not bring himself to praise the UK's stunning progress on vaccines, instead heaping praise on the US for 'shooting for the stars'.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - No FM2R
[If I might suggest, I think Haywain's note about the vaccine and all the replies should be moved to the vaccine thread rather than this one.]

I am really surprised to be saying this, but the following link is to a reasonable and interesting Daily Mail article though it couldn't quite stop itself falling back to a very tabloid remainer comment at the end which should be ignored.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9401147/Macron-delivers-humiliating-vaccine-mea-culpa-amid-EU-summit.html

The EU's approach of central vaccine procurement was the right approach. It's the one that made sense for *all* countries of the EU - either because they needed the support or because they needed to show their commitment to the EU.

The train wreck as not because of their strategy, it was because of their attitude and implementation and that, so far, seems to have escaped criticism.

They took the standard, bureaucratic, safe and standard approach to procurement. And make no mistake, that is exactly what the UK has done on every other contract they've ever signed - just not this one. We're all aware of NHS, Infrastructure and Financing contractual nightmares that the our various Governments have brought us over the years.

I think they were all so scared about what was happening that the nice safe world of Government procurement was like a comfort blanket and they shut out the pressure secure they were doing a good thing.

They got two things wrong;

- They didn't realise that it was the apocalypse

- They thought they had more time because whoever heard of a vaccine in 7 months? They didn't realise that logistics and manufacturing would be on thr critical path. They thought development and field testing would be the hold up.

They would still have been ok except that many other places, the UK a leading one, did realise it was the apocalypse and pulled out every stopper, bulldozed every obstacle and broke every rule in a headlong charge to the goal.

t was not that the EU was particularly wrong, it was that the UK and the Pharmas were spectacularly right.

Everything since then has been panicking headless chickens trying to cover up and dodge responsibility for the situation that the EU finds itself in. They're politicians, what did we expect them to do.

Had AZ vaccine failed and Sanofi succeeded it could so easily have been the other way around.

One has to be careful of stones when one so nearly was living in a glass house.

The UK needs to stop rubbing it in and start to be the bigger person. If we think that we're that big/good, then let's prove it.

Let's genuinely sit down with the EU and work out what can be done to help.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - No FM2R
Apparently there are currently more than 5 million doses of the AZ vaccine unused in countries across Europe.

Now that is a pretty small number in the scheme of things, but it does rather suggest that the EU's problems go beyond supply and into the vaccination program itself.

Some combination of the program being crap and anti-vaxxers I suspect.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Haywain
"Some combination of the program being crap and anti-vaxxers I suspect."

It will most definitely not help when a country's leaders declare that a particular vaccine is not very good; those statements will bleed on to other vaccines as well.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Terry
The proposition that joining forces to demonstrate the EU can work harmoniously to solve joint problems may be right, but implementation was unquestionaby completely flawed.

The British think the EU are a bunch of incompetents desperate to blame someone else for their inadequacies. It reinforces the wisdom of Brexit even amongst remainers (like me).

The EU want to blame somebody else. The Brits are a good target and they would dearly like to demonstrate that we have malicious intent. We left their club, already caused them budget problems, and undermined the solidity of the EU.

Boris and his team are the only ones I have seen referring tpo them as "our friends"!!

 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Zero
>> "Some combination of the program being crap and anti-vaxxers I suspect."
>>
>> It will most definitely not help when a country's leaders declare that a particular vaccine
>> is not very good; those statements will bleed on to other vaccines as well.

You cant diss a solution to the point where people dont want it, and then complain you are not getting enough which will only go into a stockpile. The danes are still banning it over none existent bloodclots!
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - No FM2R
Chile's progress with vaccinated is being touted in the Daily Mail I see.

Officially confirmed today was that with the Sinovac vaccine protection is only achieved 14 days after the second jab. Which currently means that only 7.4% of Chiles, or 1.4m people, have any vaccine protection.

Consequently Santiago has now gone into total quarantine. Everything closed from 5:00am Saturday.

No leaving the house at the weekend at all. You can apply twice a week to the Carabineros to be issued a pass to leave the house for permitted activities for 2 hours.

 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Mapmaker
I understand that the Spanish are not giving AZ to the over 60s. So if You're 60-70 years old you're waiting for Pfizer, whilst the youngsters are getting the AZ shots. You couldn't write this stuff. If anybody (me) thought leaving the EU was a mistake, it seems it probably wasn't.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Bromptonaut
Let me get this right. Different EU countries have come to different conclusions as to efficacy of the vaccines in different age groups and to the risk of side effects.

You might think they were Sovereign....
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - No FM2R
>>You might think they were Sovereign....

I don't think anyone was saying that they didn't have the right to do as they wish, just that what has been said that they will do appears illogical.

It may be to do with the efficacy, but I suspect not. More likely a reaction to public perception/resistance or a strategic decision given their supply chain challenges.

Difficult to know.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 27 Mar 21 at 17:21
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - CGNorwich
"You couldn't write this stuff."

Do you you have a link to anyone who actually has?

As far as I am able to find the Spanish have resumed the use of Astra Vaccinaiton with no restrictions as to age.

english.elpais.com/society/2021-03-23/spain-on-track-to-vaccinate-70-of-adult-population-with-at-least-first-dose-by-june.html

 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Terry
The EU management of the vaccine rollout has been an unmitigated shambles.

They contracted too late. Different countries have imposed different policies for the AZ vaccine, and even changed policy mid-stream. They have consistently ignored evidence of efficacy in the UK and Israel.

Their rhetoric is almost entirely politically motivated in a belated effort to cover a**es and persuade their electorates that they are really on top of the issues (which they clearly are not).

Blame the Brits (an easy target) as they had the temerity to actually leave the EU club, messed up EU budgets, and have actually managed an excellent rollout.

 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - No FM2R
>>Blame the Brits (an easy target) as they had the temerity to actually leave the EU club, messed up EU budgets, and have actually managed an excellent rollout.

They don't care about Brexit and certainly don't care about revenge. Only [some of] the Brits are still obsessed.

It is, as you say, politically motivated rhetoric designed only to cover their a***s and hopefully prolong their political career.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Haywain
"They don't care about Brexit and certainly don't care about revenge."

Yes they do - because, if nothing else, they don't want any others to leave.

Revenge? We have now moved on from project fear to project spite.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Zero
>> "They don't care about Brexit and certainly don't care about revenge."
>>
>> Yes they do - because, if nothing else, they don't want any others to leave.

Brexiteers always seem to live under the misapprehension that the EU is / was going to collapse. Seem to recall Greece was first out under the brexiteer creed. It hasnt happened and it wont.

However, there has to be some truth in the "the uk left and has now made us look bad" feelling.

But its mostly about Ursula von der Leyen who has screwed up royally within months of being in charge and is lashing out. In a Petty Patel kind of way
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 28 Mar 21 at 20:06
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Bromptonaut
>> Different countries have imposed different policies for the AZ vaccine, and even changed policy mid-stream.

As you might expect; each country has its own rules, processes and politics.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - No FM2R
>> >> Different countries have imposed different policies for the AZ vaccine, and even changed policy
>> mid-stream.
>>
>> As you might expect; each country has its own rules, processes and politics.

As you would absolutely expect. It was only procurement that was intended to be centrally controlled. And I guess distribution to an extent.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Zero

>> As you would absolutely expect. It was only procurement that was intended to be centrally
>> controlled. And I guess distribution to an extent.

And countries that failed to order enough through central procurement, are using them as a scapegoat. Has strange parallels in big business.......
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - No FM2R
As is typical with all politicians, blame is far more important than doing the right thing. Which is indeed sadly common in big business, especially the older companies.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Ambo
It was rife in my company and very short-sighted. CYA was immediately deployed as staff scurried to cover themselves, so that the cause of the problem was concealed or made much harder to discern.
 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Duncan
Couple of interesting Youtube videos. Prof Chris Whitty talking to the Royal Society of Medicine

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W6-aq8KhNQ

Dr John Campbell giving his usual daily roundup of recent coronavirus news which includes references to Chris Whitty's talk.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxIIjQqSgkA

CV deaths in the UK are now running at around 50 a day. That is a very similar figure to the deaths from flu in a normal winter - so around 7 - 8,000 per year. That doesn't make the newspapers. There was a mini flu epidemic during the winter of 2017/2018 when 25,000 died in the UK - that didn't make the newspapers either.

Perhaps we are approaching the point where 50 deaths a day during the winter is acceptable and barely worthy of comment? The weather is (should be) getting warmer, evenings are lighter. We can get outside, get some sun (vitamin D) on our bodies. that will keep Covid at bay.

Will we have a jab every Autumn, a combined Covid and flu jab? Just learn to live with it?

 Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Duncan
Some pretty horrific figures for Brazil and some European countries - deaths and new cases.

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
 Social distancing ..... - Haywain
There's a not-very-socially-distanced party going on in Bristol at the moment; it's on Youtube funded by RT ..... I wonder how it'll end.

youtu.be/58MkOPuqUGM

 Social distancing ..... - Duncan
Why Bristol?
 Social distancing ..... - Haywain
"Why Bristol?"

It seems to be the hotbed of protest currently. RT label it 'LIVE: Bristol residents take to the streets in "Kill the Bill" protest'

What caught my eye was that RT was taking an interest, and that the caption could give the impression that the protesters were regular Bristol residents and not just a disaffected crowd from rentamob.

 Social distancing ..... - Zero
How RT ever got a license for UK TV broadcast is beyond me.
 Social distancing ..... - Duncan
>> "Why Bristol?"
>>
>> It seems to be the hotbed of protest currently. RT label it 'LIVE: Bristol residents
>> take to the streets in "Kill the Bill" protest'

Who or what, is RT?

Rodney Trelawney?

Radio Tamar?
 Social distancing ..... - Haywain
TV station - used to be called Russia Today.
 Social distancing ..... - Zero
>> Why Bristol?

Not much else to do there.
 Social distancing ..... - Clk Sec
Not far from Weston, though...
 Social distancing ..... - tyrednemotional
....Weston-Super-Mud....?
 Social distancing ..... - Ambo
We Ambos got our first Pfizer jabs on January 21 with no reaction apart from a sore arm. We had the second on April 3, with sore arms but both also experiencing a low feeling, difficult to define but involving depleted energy. Have any other "two-timer" posters experienced this?
 Social distancing ..... - Fullchat
I had the second Astra Zenica jab a week last Sunday. I was out tinkering in the garage yesterday and it was cold. Felt carp in the evening. Hot bath and felt carpier so an early night. Fine today.
I recall having a similar day sometime after the last jab.
I think it may be a spin off from the jab.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - smokie
I read earlier that Chile's infection rates are on the rise, despite a successful vaccination programme. The charts are here.

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/chile/

I hope Mark is OK. He's not been around since March.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - John Boy
>> I hope Mark is OK. He's not been around since March.
>>
Neither has Zippy.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - helicopter
Chile shows ‘quick jab rollout doesn’t mean lockdown ends’

digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/562/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/562/pub/562/page/5/article/159822

I hope Mark is OK as well, situation in Chile absolutely disastrous despite the high vaccination rate.
Last edited by: helicopter on Tue 6 Apr 21 at 19:38
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Zero
I have enquired of his health.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - No FM2R
I am fine, thank you.

Vaccinations continue apace here, but we are in total quarantine, the ICUs are on the edge of broken and the figures continue to rise.

Even on the ground it is difficult to be sure what is going on.

Firstly we are being vaccinated with Sinovac. In the UK it would appear that the figures started to drop about 20 days after vaccination accelerated. That aligns fairly well with the statements that AZ & Pfizer begin to give protection 14 days after first jab.

However, here that has not happened. Not even slightly.

Firstly we are led to believe that Sinovac begins to give protection 14 - 21 days after the second jab. Disappointing, but even then we should have started seeing some impact 2 or 3 weeks ago. We didn't.

Obviously that leads to worry about Sinovac especially given that we do have P1 here and Sinovac doesn't distinguish itself against P1. However, Turkey, which has a fine and sophisticated medical, health and science infrastructure says that Sinovac is 85% (ish) effective. And they're not usually wrong. It is unclear how much P1 we have here, other than the fact that it is more than none. However, it doesn't seem to be a particularly dominant strain, just a nasty one.

However, if we consider the public statements in Chile that Sinovac protection is 3 weeks after the second jab, then three weeks ago they were giving 60+ their second jab. (They're down to 50+ first jab at the moment).

It would appear that most infections are in the 25 - 55 age group. So that might fit with the delay. We can also see that >50% of people in ICU are under 55. So that might fit also.

What we can't see is the age distribution of hospital admissions at this time. And that would be really interesting.

Additionally in Jan and Feb the Chileans sod off to the beach. In their entirety for as long as they can. The Chileans are funny about their holiday period. In a not funny at all sort of way.

For example we had the horrendous riots, burnings, military on the street etc etc. 18 months ago. Millions of protestors swearing this was the most inportant thing they'd ever dealt with and they would die for the cause (literally).

And it was awful, until W3 December. And then it stopped dead. They might be prepared to die for the cause, but they weren't going to give up their summer holidays.

Last year the Chileans were being pretty sensible about COVId-19 overall. Until W3 December, when care stopped dead and they all pssed off to the beach and rubbed up against each for weeks on end.

Then a bunch of things happened together. W3 & W4 Feb everybody returns to the cities to start the new year. Schools returned with kids on W1 March. Autumn started and daily temperatures dropped from mid 30s to low 20s (unusually low for this time of year, and W4 Feb the Government allowed bars & restaurants to open for service *inside*.

So, unsurprisingly, COVID-19 exploded and continues to explode. Hospitals are overloaded, ICUs are all but full. Last report I saw said they had 4 days capacity left.

For Easter, and this is a lip-service Catholic country, The Government said that each person could apply for one pass to go out once. 6.5 million passes were issued - that's 35% of the population! How that is supposed to help I just don't know.

12,500 cars were prevented from leaving the city and 4,000 people were arrested. You couldn't make it up.

The only glimmer of hope is that yesterday and today the 7 & 14 day Case averages and the 7 & 14 day fatality averages both dropped slightly. So slightly that it could mean nothing.

On the other hand it is the first time the figures have done anything other than climb exponentially since 20th Feb.

We sit, we wait, we watch and we hope. But right now it is not great.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - smokie
Thanks for the detail and, believe it or not, glad to see you back here :-)

Stay safe...
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - No FM2R
Thanks, I think.

I must admit I am finding the lockdown more difficult than I expected.

I think we were locked down for 4 months last time, and by the end it had started to get to me.

This time rather than starting from the beginning again my emotions appear to have simply picked up where they left off.

Additionally one of my daughters is not doing all that well.

And at least we're in a spacious house with both our own space and outside space. I cannot imagine how it is for hose in crowded apartments. Equally, a friend of mine who lives alone in an apartment block where he knows nobody is also suffering.

I think if things don't get better soon and a light at the end of the tunnel does not appear then quarantine is likely to collapse here as those in a much worse situation finally decide just to go out anyway. And once the seal is broken.......

And that's never mind the ones who cannot eat if they don't go out to get money one way or another.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - sooty123
Is there any feeling in Chile that the wrong vaccine has been bought or much /any significant vaccine hesitancy?
What's the general feeling with increases despite the roll out going pretty well?
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - No FM2R
>>Is there any feeling in Chile that the wrong vaccine has been bought or much /any significant vaccine hesitancy?

My sense is that there is not much in the way of vaccination hesitancy though there is still lots of conspiracy talk about how COVID-19 is a Government invention. However, it seems to me that those beliefs are not strong enough to keep anyone out of the vaccination rooms.

Certainly as they lower the age that may get vaccinations each day then the centres are getting busier and busier. (Bearing in mind that the lower the specified age then the more there are in that group.

There is increasing concern about the vaccine. But what can they do? If they decide to go out and buy a first world vaccine now there is one hell of a waiting list.

#1 daughter got the Pfizer vaccine, but she is the only one I know of that who has been offered anything other than Sinovac.

Chileans generally don't have very inquiring minds. They are generally likely to accept what is put in front of them unless there is a more attractive conspiracy available. They rarely consider that someone is simply wrong and just choose between the truth and a lie.

My personal feeling, perhaps hope, is that it is a timing thing. That it takes longer to protect people and it is younger people who are getting sick.

We shall see.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - sooty123
Yes true they've no other choice, I just wondered if some form of criticism of the government was bubbling away as Chile is, from what you've said, no stranger to riots.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - No FM2R
>>, I just wondered if some form of criticism of the government was bubbling away as Chile is, from what you've said, no stranger to riots.

Without doubt there is. Not for any specific reason though, just generally because they are the Government.

The social unrest is still there and the general belief is that as the apocalypse passes then the peasants will rise up once more.

Though in the case of Chile the 'peasants' are mostly students. Everybody else is working.

Particularly because one of the things that was promised was a new constitution and those responsible for writing and agreeing it were supposed to be chosen in a countrywide election in 3 weeks time. The elections have just been cancelled/delayed.

There is a sector of the population that sees the delay of those elections as irrevocable proof that COVID-19 is a Government conspiracy designed to keep them downtrodden.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Zero
Zippy has been carted off by the ole bill
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Lygonos
I heard he was a special witness in the Floyd case.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Zero
I always knew he was a BLM agitator
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Kevin
Bald Lives Matter?
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - legacylad
Blue lives matter ( if you’re a Smurf)
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Zero
>> Bald Lives Matter?

No Zippy was the BLM. With mark its OGM


Only Gin Matters
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Duncan
The situation in Brazil

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/brazil/
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Manatee
Not good, but they still haven't reached the UK's total death rate. And Brazil's current daily death rate is still below what the UK's was at its peak I think. If we believe the figures.

 Chile (and where's Mark?) - No FM2R
>> Not good, but they still haven't reached the UK's total death rate. And Brazil's current
>> daily death rate is still below what the UK's was at its peak I think.
>> If we believe the figures.

I think you are mistaken.

UK Total deaths 127,000
Brazil total deaths 340,000

60,000 died in March alone. 2,000 per day ish, and I think the UK's highest ever 7 day average was about 1,300.

Brazil has vaccinated about 6% of it's country. It has authorised AZ & Sinovac/Coronavac but essentially just has Sinovac. It also has P1 and Sinovac is not particularly effective against P1 though information is limited.

They have limited supplies of oxygen, broken hospitals and corruption.

Brazil is more fckd than a fckd thing and there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Peru is sinking with it.

Read more of the sorry tale here.

www.wionews.com/world/brazil-is-brilliant-at-vaccinations-so-what-went-wrong-this-time-367135

 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Bromptonaut
>> I think you are mistaken.
>>
>> UK Total deaths 127,000
>> Brazil total deaths 340,000

I think the subject was deaths per 100k population.

UK 191.17
Brazil 158.85

It may of course be that the UK figures are broadly accurate and that Brazil's are as crooked as a very crooked thing.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - No FM2R
Ah, thanks, I didn't realise that.

Brazil's figure are probably not corrupt, but I guarantee they are wildly inaccurate. They just don't know what is really happening and Bolsonaro is a nutter.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Zero
>> Ah, thanks, I didn't realise that.
>>
>> Brazil's figure are probably not corrupt, but I guarantee they are wildly inaccurate. They just
>> don't know what is really happening and Bolsonaro is a nutter.

I doubt that any countries figures are directly accurately comparable, for reasons varying from deliberate state conspiracy, through corruption, inability, ineptitude to valid but varying criteria and parameter choices.


But of course its all fake anyway
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - No FM2R

>> I doubt that any countries figures are directly accurately comparable, for reasons varying from
>> deliberate state conspiracy, through corruption, inability, ineptitude to valid but varying criteria
>> and parameter choices.

And Brazil is a very big place run by incompetents.

A few years ago there was a break out of Sao Paulo prison through the subtle application of a JCB digger at full speed into one of the walls. Not only did they not have any idea who had escaped, they found quite a number that had not escaped that they didn't know they had imprisoned. Including one guy who should have been released 10 years beforehand but somehow wasn't.

So when they come up with "figures" you know it's a guess. There are parts of Brazil which are a very long way from a city and they have no idea what is occurring.

 Chile (and where's Mark?) - No FM2R
This is the current state of play in Chile.

The text and titles are in Spanish but I don't think that will matter, it's all pretty obvious.

www.emol.com/especiales/2020/internacional/coronavirus/casos-chile.asp
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - No FM2R
There are 180 ICU beds available in the country. That's more than 96% occupancy.

15.5% of tests given yesterday were positive. (35,604 given. Previously that has been as high as 90,000, I don't know why the drop)

There were 5,134 new cases yesterday 940 of which were asymptomatic.

FYI, Chile's population is 19.3 million. Well, a bit less than that by now I guess.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - No FM2R
>> Bald Lives Matter?

So cruel.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - John Boy
>> Zippy has been carted off by the ole bill
>>
Was that a joke?
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Zero
Yes

At least I thought it was, but it might be true
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Bromptonaut
>> Yes
>>
>> At least I thought it was, but it might be true

I hope he's OK. He's also an occasional poster on HJ but I've not seen him there for a while.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - sooty123
Probably been transferred to a black site in the mountains in Albania.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Zero
>> Probably been transferred to a black site in the mountains in Albania.

CIA rendition perhaps?
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Dog
Should auld acquaintance be forgot:

Dutchie

Pat

Iffy

Ted

Cliff Pope

Lud

Roger

Stu

SteelSpark

Londoner

Statistical Outlier

Westpig

Badwolf

Midlifecrisis

L'escargot

Bellboy

Etc.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Dave_
>> Should auld acquaintance be forgot

I stay in touch with Pat. Ted's still knocking around too.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Robin O'Reliant
>>
>>
>> I stay in touch with Pat. Ted's still knocking around too.
>>

What happened to Cliff pope, he just disappeared? Hope he's ok.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - Dog
>>I stay in touch with Pat. Ted's still knocking around too.

Bueno - I have a nose around her FB page now and again. Pleased to hear Teddy is still about.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - No FM2R
>>I hope Mark is OK. He's not been around since March.

Meh, 'ok' about covers it but at least I am well. Thank you for asking.
 Chile (and where's Mark?) - VxFan
>> Meh, 'ok' about covers it but at least I am well. Thank you for asking.

Ah, the clot has returned ;)
 Coronavirus - Volume 34 - No FM2R
I wish all the demonstrating anti-lockdown, anti-mask, anti-vaccine t***s could be forcibly shipped to Brazil.

Some COVID-19 reality for you, from this side of the world.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-latin-america-56723439
 Coronavirus - Volume 34 - No FM2R
www.bbc.com/news/av/world-latin-america-56668196
 Coronavirus - Volume 34 - No FM2R
50% of the people who died in March did so without being able to get into ICU. No space.
 Coronavirus - Volume 34 - Bromptonaut
>> 50% of the people who died in March did so without being able to get
>> into ICU. No space.

Which of course, together with the prospect of being unable to 'process' the dead was why Western Democracies imposed lockdown.
 Coronavirus - Volume 34 - legacylad
7 of us, from 5 households, are driving to Scotland on Monday April 26. Eight days walking a National Trail, three accommodations en route, mini bus taxis booked.
It’s been a nightmare to arrange....the hotels and pubs say it’s ok to share a room from different households, the minibus taxis think it’s ok, and we are car sharing on the journey and shuttling cars between start & finish points.
Obviously we’ll wear masks in the taxis and when car sharing ( as we did in Spain for 3 months).

What can possibly go wrong.
 Coronavirus - Volume 34 - RichardW

>> What can possibly go wrong.
>>

It hasn't rained much here for the last few weeks, and there is little rain in the forecast out to about the 26th, which almost certainly means it will lash down after that!

I am away to Inverness over the May BH weekend for some cycling, fully expecting to get a soaking....
 Coronavirus - Volume 34 - Dave_
I heard on Twitter late on Monday evening that the NHS website was accepting vaccine bookings for 45-49 year olds, and that an announcement would be made in the morning.

I tried the website and was able to book a jab for yesterday morning, and a second dose at the end of June. I hear the booking website fell over when the announcement was put out yesterday - that would explain why I was the only patient in the place at 11am.

I had the AstraZeneca. This evening my arm's a bit sore, but I have no other ill effects.
Last edited by: Dave_ on Wed 14 Apr 21 at 22:17
 Coronavirus - Volume 34 - No FM2R
Why are so many babies dying of Covid-19 in Brazil?

www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56696907
 Coronavirus - Volume 34 - bathtub tom
SWMBO had her hair cut (done?) today. She's now wearing a scarf indoors, as she reckons her neck feels cold.
 Coronavirus - Volume 34 - No FM2R
Right now, in Chile, the ICUs are overloaded. More than half of the occupants are under 40.

I do hope the UK keeps on vaccinating until everybody is done, and the idiots are not tempted to assume that because they're young they're safe.
 Coronavirus - Volume 34 - sooty123
The UK is going pretty well, due to be a slow month though due to the lack of vaccine. Supply this month is described as 'lumpy' although the third vaccine has arrived and is being used.
 Coronavirus - Volume 34 - sooty123
Anyone else get asked if they could go short notice for their second vaccination? Seemed to have a surplus round here over the next 72 hours.
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