| Non-motoring > Credit Ratings | Legal Questions |
| Thread Author: rtj70 | Replies: 165 |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 00:40
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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I checked my Experian (Credit Expert) rating earlier today (it's free to check Experian credit report with my insurance but I did pay for the credit rating, couple of quid).... So like a lot it's pretty good and it makes me wonder what effect this really has on borrowing. You could get a top rating, borrow money at a good rate (or a large amount) and vanish! So why are credit ratings important - or are they? Mods, I am not thinking of disappearing with a large loan! Might reduce my credit rating from the 999 that it was. |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 01:12
Credit Ratings - RattleandSmoke
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Because it shows you have been making good payments for years and probably less likely to vanish. There is always a risk but the risk is lower. Its just like car insurance. I have a friend who has defaulted on just about every time of credit she has taken out so much so she cannot even get 10000% APR loans. |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 01:20
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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House aside (so I won't leave the UK still owning it with unpaid debt etc.).... I could transfer a significant amount to my account tonight and withdraw in cash tomorrow. The other reason for wondering was catching a bit of crimewatch earlier. A bank robbery involved an insider who'd been rewarded with employee of the year so an unlikely suspect who was also kidnapped. But was involved. So you could spend time building up a good credit rating and overnight practically disappear with £100k or lots more! I don't have instant access to £100k tonight but might stretch to £65k thinking about it! A couple of credit cards and instant approval of a loan possible at the bank.... for fraud reasons I need to make sure this is not possible by even me!! Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 9 Sep 10 at 01:22
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 01:26
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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Does anyone know if reducing credit card limits affects credit ratings? I have a horrible feeling I could spend £15k tomorrow on one and never spent more than maybe £1500 on it! Now the Diners Club card I have for work is another matter - charge card. And never asked for the limit to be so high. I think I've left it as if just in case before, e.g. emergency on holiday. Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 9 Sep 10 at 01:27
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 01:32
Credit Ratings - RattleandSmoke
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Not sure if it reduces ratings but certainly not spending on them does. Since using my credit card my credit rating has sky rocketed and my bank was trying to push a new one on me with a £5000 limit. They were so pushy I complained as what they did is clearly against the law. Am I right in thinking you're worried about ID theft because you have too easy access to credit? |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 01:43
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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>> Am I right in thinking you're worried about ID theft because you have too easy access to credit? Not that worried because these are credit cards. But when I got back to the UK in May someone had spent a couple hundred quid on a credit card (all refunded without question and it was Barclays that alerted me). Someone had used details they got from a card maybe 2 years previous. Its why in a restaurant I would only ever use cash or credit card - never a debit card. Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 9 Sep 10 at 01:45
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 01:29
Credit Ratings - RattleandSmoke
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Don't worry just get a couple of 100% APR credit cards, spend £200 in stores and don't pay the bill. That will soon sort out your credit history :). I also have a very good credit history but my access to money is limited to my income but I could easily borrow £10k on credit cards/loans with no easy means of paying it back. I got my £8000 car loan without them even asking what my income was because my credit history is so good. They did seem to want to know a lot about my university life though I suppose to make sure I was telling the truth. Some lenders see graduates as less of a risk. A credit history is no guarentee of anything it simply reduces the risk. Just like having 10 years no claims discount is no guarentee you're not going to fall asleep behind thw wheel and drive into the back of a lorry it just reduces the statistical risk to insurance companies. |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 01:47
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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>> I could easily borrow £10k on credit cards/loans with no easy means of paying it back I could theoretically send you £60k tonight at a guess. Possibly more. With fast bank transfer you could have a good night. Edit: With savings make that more than the figure above. Which is why I am concerned at how easy this could be. Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 9 Sep 10 at 01:49
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 07:51
Credit Ratings - smokie
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I've been trying to move money (not cash) around between banks over the past few weeks and I can't believe how difficult it seems to be now. I've even had cheques returned (2) on accounts that I've had for 30+ years stating signature doesn't match. I think there is a welter of money laundering regs which might make it hard to access large amounts of money quickly - but I haven't tried so could be wrong. On the other hand I got a new credit card the other day in about 5 minutes flat. I know I have a good score. |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 09:14
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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When we sold the house last December, putting a lot of money into a new joint account was very easy. Getting it out was more difficult because of money laundering type checks. Had to go to the bank with photo ID to transfer the deposit money and again to pay the balance. I suppose the logic is the government doesn't mind you paying money in. Getting at it again in large chunks (over £10k I think) is then checked/regulated. |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 09:14
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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I can't imagine why the OP is the least bit interested in his credit rating, other than idle speculation. We have someone here with a good wedge in the bank and a house that's paid for - it's hard to imagine a person less in need of credit. Happily, I have no need for credit either, although I do use a credit card now and again for hotel bookings and the occasional large purchase. I wouldn't want my credit card taken off me, but other than that, my credit rating is irrelevant, as it is to the OP. |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 09:15
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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It was curiosity, and signing up is to do with ID/credit fraud rather than anything else. But access to credit so easy did make me wonder all the same. Someone could in theory borrow a lot of money in my name. I also pay for things on the Internet and holidays with the credit card. Both for the extra protection offered. Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 9 Sep 10 at 09:16
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 09:22
Credit Ratings - Zero
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I have an experion account, with my son at the same address and a builder who woned the house before me fleeing to ireland to escape HMC&R, it makes sense. Your credit reference is not about how much you owe, but how you use credit. For example, Mortgage good payment history - Good MOrtgage paid off - bad My rating dropped 100 points when I paid off my mortgage. Three credit cards - good Five credit cards - bad 1 credit card - not so good. Credit ratings are strange beasts - highly complex and fluid depending on how the risks are calculated depending on market conditions. I had a great credit rating - 900+ when I went to get the new Iphone, but O2 still insisted on 250 quid deposit because I had no previous phone contract. While they were in short supply, people were making off with them fraudulently. Last edited by: Zero on Thu 9 Sep 10 at 09:22
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 09:31
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...but O2 still insisted on 250 quid deposit because I had no previous phone contract... My post about irrelevant credit ratings was slightly hasty - I did 'use' mine when I got the Orange phone a month or so ago. I was asked a couple of questions about my existing credit card, how long I'd had it and what its limit was. No deposit or anything like that, but it was only a 'free' Nokia phone on a basic tariff. |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 09:36
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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| Interesting zero. No doubt mine will drop now I don't have the mortgage. |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 12:05
Credit Ratings - Zero
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| Yeah, the daft thing is that the normal credit check does not check the status of your abode and if you own it, only if you have a mortgage on it. So you loose that big chunk of points. |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 12:32
Credit Ratings - movilogo
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>> So why are credit ratings important - or are they? If you are not going to borrow money, it doesn't matter that much. But sometimes your credits are checked while taking monthly phone connection etc. So, it is worth keeping a good credit rating. If you paid off all your credit card debts without paying interest, you are actually a bad customer to credit card company. MSE forums have good discussion about credit rating. >> I suppose the logic is the government doesn't mind you paying money in. Getting at it again in large chunks (over £10k I think) is then checked/regulated. That is true for many countries around the world. |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 13:25
Credit Ratings - Zero
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The government is much concerned about those who pay in large sums of money as well. They have a desire to know the source. |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 13:39
Credit Ratings - Bellboy
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They have a desire to know the source. > >>>daddies? |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 23:28
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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I'm at the other end of the credit rating scale to most people here... My excuse is that I spent the last 5 years trying to keep the then SWMBO happy by, er, borrowing more than I could afford (culminating in taking out a £3k loan at 59.6%APR - paid off £1800 and still owe £4800 now) and spending it on her. I'd love to go bankrupt - I've been to see the Citizens Advice Bureau about it and they agree that bankruptcy is my only real option - but I stand no real chance of raising the £510 cash County Court deposit to do so, having tried desperately for the last 15 months. It's my only real chance of creating a decent future for myself and my daughter who lives with me. I know it's a bit cheeky, but if anyone feels like lending me £510 to be paid back at a tenner a week - email address is in my profile :) You'd make a big difference to a normal guy who's simply been dealt a rubbish hand in the game of life. Figures, dates and amounts all collated and available. You don't ask, you don't get, right? Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Thu 9 Sep 10 at 23:32
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 23:34
Credit Ratings - Ted
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Well, if 50 more of us can do it, I'm up for a tenner ! Ted |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 23:40
Credit Ratings - Skoda
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| I'm in. Setup a just giving page or a paypal and i'll fire over some mullah. |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 23:45
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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I'll give £50. And none of us are saying it's a loan I hope!
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 9 Sep 10 at 23:46
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 23:54
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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| Can I suggest Dave starts a thread for this. If people want to treat it as a loan etc. I suppose fine. But this could make a big difference to one person. I realise we don't know them but he's mentioned titbits of his life for a while on here and I'm sure on HJ before. So far I think we have £70. |
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New Thu 9 Sep 10 23:55
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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Wow... er... Justgiving and Virgin Money Giving seem to only accept donations for registered charities, and Paypal clobbers you with charges. I've got a Paypal account set up on my personal e-mail address, which I've just put in my profile. I really didn't expect anyone to say Yes like this, thank you. I'll have a hunt around now for other donation sites to see what their Ts & Cs are... EDIT: Thanks rtj, I was about to email the mods to clear this with them because I understand it's asking a bit much on here. CAB suggested I ask friends and family to club together, but I have very few of either :( Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Thu 9 Sep 10 at 23:57
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 00:00
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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| Anyone know if best sent via pay pal as a gift or other? I sent an email via the previous email address in the profile so could do via bank to bank transfer. That way it would get there immediately or as good as. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 00:01
Credit Ratings - Skoda
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After i posted that i thought neither suggestions any use :-) Bank transfer costs nothing, unless anyone can think of a reason not to send money that way? My feelings are exactly the same as Rob said + you're a top notch contributor on here. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 00:06
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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There are at least 50 regulars on here (double that I think) and we came from the HJ site. If we all gave a tenner he's sorted. If a 100 of us gave a tenner then so what? I'd not miss £10 if I am honest and it is probably the same for many on here. I think this is a one off. I've read many posts from Dave on here and actually felt guilt a bit. I'm lucky to own a house mortgage free and he's been dealt a few duff cards. I hope the mods are okay with this? |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 00:08
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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| We need to get £600 for Dave BTW. The cost went up in April 2010. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 00:22
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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| I have the paperwork sent from Leicester County Court for me to fill in, at the start of April. I applied to the British Gas Trust in April for a grant to pay the bankruptcy fees but my application was unsuccessful. I wasn't aware the cost had risen as I've been trying to raise the fees myself since then... |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 00:30
Credit Ratings - Skoda
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Bank transfer sent.
Last edited by: Skoda on Fri 10 Sep 10 at 00:31
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 00:35
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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My £50 also sent - Dave gave me bank details via email. So that's £60 so far? And we need only £600 total to make a big difference. Next appeal will be Rattle's Panda key :-) (sorry Ian). I cannot remember the amount Dave says he has to spend on food per week.... my shopping on a day might come close if we're having a nice meal. Can we split this into a new thread? Either via Dave_TD himself or the mods? I still assume this is all okay. Dave joined HJ in 2002. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 00:42
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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I can't thank you both enough. I've emailed the mods to run this by them, and will leave it in their hands for now as I don't wish to presuppose anything on what is, after all, someone else's forum. Thanks once again, Dave. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 00:44
Credit Ratings - Skoda
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>> So that's £60 so far? A bit more, but folks shouldn't be put off contributing a tenner if that's what they can set aside. Also no need to mention on a thread if they don't want (daves email public on his profile). |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 00:45
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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I've suggested that the most painless, bank charge-free way would be to do as rtj70 and Skoda have done, and email me for bank details. I trust the posters on here enough to give them individually. Thanks once again, Dave. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 01:02
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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All the best Dave_TD. I hope his helps sort out (a) the initial application and (b) if enough of us send some money maybe a short holiday for you and your daughter. Again I think as a long standing member, and with what has been said, a new thread may be of use? I feel humbled to be financially safe at the moment. Being mortgage free helps. Being out of the UK permanently is the plan. Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 10 Sep 10 at 01:03
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 09:01
Credit Ratings - Zero
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>> Being >> out of the UK permanently is the plan. I'll chip in for that if it would help. second thoughts, the internet is cross border. Cancel that. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 01:13
Credit Ratings - crocks
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| I'll keep the ball rolling too. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 08:26
Credit Ratings - Pat
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Me too. Pat |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 08:57
Credit Ratings - Skip
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Count me in. Andy |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 10:55
Credit Ratings - Bromptonaut
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Dave, I'm sure I'm stating the b obvious but have you explored fee remissions? Link below to the HMCS website guidance. www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex160a_web_0709.pdf |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 08:46
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...Iffy's account's been hacked.... ...I'm in. Setup a just giving page or a paypal and i'll fire over some mullah.... A Scotsman giving away money? I think Skoda's account's been hacked as well. |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 13:55
Credit Ratings - Skoda
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>> I think Skoda's account's been hacked as well. Ho-ho v good :-P |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 11:01
Credit Ratings - Suppose
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>> happy by, er, borrowing more than I could afford (culminating in taking out a £3k >> loan at 59.6%APR - paid off £1800 and still owe £4800 now) and spending it >> on her. >> >> I'd love to go bankrupt - I've been to see the Citizens Advice Bureau about >> it and they agree that bankruptcy is my only real option - but I stand >> no real chance of raising the £510 cash County Court deposit to do so, having >> >> I know it's a bit cheeky, but if anyone feels like lending me £510 to >> You don't ask, you don't get, right? >> So let me get this right. you took out a loan of your own free will to spend on ex-SWMBO. Now you can't afford it and don't to pay it back, and so you are asking this forum to lend you money so that you can declare yourself bankrupt to get out of your obligation to the lender? Sorry, but I think that is morally bankrupt. As for rtj70, why do you constantly feel the need to boast about your internet speeds, your Mac computer, your car, your top notch credit rating, your mortgage free house, your plan to move abroad? Mine is bigger than yours and I can pence or p higher up the wall than you. Somehow I don't think the Mods will like my contribution to this thread, despite their claim to be tolerant of all views. Last edited by: Suppose on Fri 10 Sep 10 at 11:06
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 11:28
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...Sorry, but I think that is morally bankrupt... Dave made a few foolish financial decisions a while ago. I know what it's like to have creditors pressing - people have topped themselves due to the pressure. Dave's had that pressure for some time, he's paid his dues if not his debts, and he's now looking for a legal way forward. Far from being morally bankrupt, he would be failing in his duty as a parent not to look to find a way out of the mess he's got himself into. Others on here have put their money where their mouth is, and so have I. Dave is now £50 richer, and I'm £50 poorer. For those thinking of making a contribution, I can report it's very easy. Just take the account details Dave supplies into your bank and ask them to do a transfer - there's not even any need to fill in a form. My banking brother tells me it's called 'fast pay', which the government pressed the banks to bring in after concerns about payments being held in limbo for days at a time. Last edited by: ifithelps on Fri 10 Sep 10 at 11:29
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 11:36
Credit Ratings - Pat
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It also bears the question why suppose feels the need to judge anyone else? The morally correct thing to do would be to just ignore this thread both financially AND verbally. Pat |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 11:42
Credit Ratings - crocks
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>>Just take the account details Dave supplies into your bank and ask them to do a transfer - there's not even any need to fill in a form. ... or do it online by the same method. Five minutes and totally painless. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 11:44
Credit Ratings - Mapmaker
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I'm not convinced that bankruptcy is a sensible solution. The oustanding amount is scarcely more than the court fee. We can debate the morality of lending money at 59.6% APR, but the fact is that it was borrowed by somebody acting under his own free will. I'm bemused that a reasonably intelligent poster here fell for it. Any chance of pointing out to the lender that you're considering bankruptcy - following which they won't get any of it back, and that you'd be happy to settle with repaying the £1,200 balance of the outstanding 3k at £10 a week for the next two years. As it is, they'll see a loss, and banks HATE making losses, but if they can break even they might be happier. I'd feel a lot happier about the munificent rtj70 lending Dave £4,800 at 10% APR over 5 years. He's certainly in a complete mess, and I certainly feel sorry for him. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 13:47
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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Bromptonaut: Thank you for that link. I was working on figures of £360 for the cost of managing bankruptcy plus £150 court fees. I understood the court fees could be waived when I was on benefits but I believed that I would have to pay them now I’ve started work again. However a look through the guide to fee remissions shows that I could qualify for “Remission 2”, ie a remission of the £150 court fee by reason of low income. Whilst I’m understandably reluctant to disclose figures on here, my income (including tax credits) is well under the £15,930 threshold in the table on Page 10. However, as rtj70 points out, the full cost of bankruptcy has now risen to £600, which is made up of £450 bankruptcy management costs and £150 court fees, so it looks like I’d need to find £450 with full court fee remission. Mapmaker: Again, I don’t think this is the right place to put all my figures on display, but suffice to say the original amount of the loan I took out comprises around a sixth of my total debt. That’s why I can’t go down the route of a DRO or an IVA – they are both suitable for debts of up to £15,000 only. Suppose: >> Now you can't afford it and don't to pay it back, and so you are asking this forum to lend you money so that you can declare yourself bankrupt That’s about the size of it, yes. As this forum is similar to the social side of a pub in terms of the groups of people here and the conversations that take place, what I’ve asked is hardly any different to a regular member of such a group admitting to falling on hard times and asking friends to help if they are able to do so. I’ve tried everything within my means to sort it out myself, and failed. So if asking for help means changing some people’s opinion of me for the worse then so be it. As ifithelps says above, I’d be failing in my duty as a parent not to explore every avenue out of this situation. I don’t want to have to say “no” to every single thing my 10-year-old daughter asks for from now until after she’s taken her GCSEs. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 13:59
Credit Ratings - Mapmaker
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My God you are in a mess. Did you manage to borrow all this money without lying to any of the lenders and with telling them the full extent of your debts? (I'm not suggesting for a moment that you did, merely expressing incredulity that they thought they had any chance of getting the money back.) Or were you earning much more in those days? And you've had 25k worth of plasma TVs, cars and holidays, and hope the courts will write the lot off. I honestly don't know what to think. I cannot decide whether or not to send you a contribution. Have you nothing you can ebay? (the ex wife, perhaps?) Part-time jobs? |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 14:13
Credit Ratings - Clk Sec
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Mine will be on its way as soon as I have your details, Dave. All the best to you. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 14:22
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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>> you've had 25k worth of plasma TVs, cars and holidays I wish I had. All my furniture has been passed on to me from family and friends, as have most of my daughter's clothes. I haven't had a holiday in 6 years and my car's value fluctuates wildly according to the level in the petrol tank. I ebayed everything with a value a year ago and raised just over £100. I didn't lie to any of the lenders, only to myself in as much as I was convinced I could handle the repayments, it wouldn't get out of hand, etc etc. 19% credit card, 29% overdraft, 59% loan, all to keep the girlfriend happy. It's frighteningly easy, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, and it didn't work anyway. Got to fetch daughter from school and go to work now, will look in late tonight. Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Fri 10 Sep 10 at 14:23
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 15:02
Credit Ratings - crocks
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Let's re-cap a bit. In a thread about credit ratings someone mentions his is not very good and in order to sort his and his daughter's life out, and to do what the CAB suggest is his best option, he needs £510. He just happens to ask if anyone will lend him this money, more out of desperation than expectation. Some posters say they will help by giving him some money. This is not what he asked for but he is very grateful. Others also say they will help. Now I have a clear mental picture of the lives of some of the more regular posters but not of Dave. And I am a bit uneasy about bankrupcy. But I am a regular reader of C4P and have gained much pleasure and useful information for no charge whatever. So I consider this, in a small way, to be payback time. So if you want to help someone try to get their life back on track - click on Dave's name to get to his profile. - send him an email to get his details. - send him a small gift. If you don't want to help then just carry on with the rest of your life. Of course there is a small chance that this is all a five year long confidence trick and Dave will never be heard of again but I'm willing to take the risk. :-) Last edited by: Crocks on Fri 10 Sep 10 at 15:05
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 15:34
Credit Ratings - Suppose
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>> 19% credit card, 29% overdraft, 59% loan, all to keep the girlfriend happy. It's >> >> be it. As ifithelps says above, I’d be failing in my duty as a parent >> not to explore every avenue out of this situation. I don’t want to have to >> say “no” to every single thing my 10-year-old daughter asks for from now until after >> she’s taken her GCSEs. >> In reply to all those who suggested that I should shut up if I do not agree with something in a thread, well I think that says volumes about your character. First the girlfriend, now the daughter. Your life, your money, but I sincerely hope your daughter does not learn the wrong lesson from all this. I know how to say "no", and I am saying "no" to you. My tenner is going to www.dec.org.uk/ |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 15:59
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...In reply to all those who suggested that I should shut up if I do not agree with something in a thread... Suppose, I don't think anyone has suggested you shut up - certainly not me. Your point of view is just as valid as all the others, and the forum would be poorer without it. I can't agree with you about Dave, but I was beginning to wonder about some of rtj70's recent posts meself. :) |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 16:23
Credit Ratings - Suppose
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>> >> I don't think anyone has suggested you shut up - certainly not me. >> Thank you for that. I know you are a kind soul who likes to give money to strangers, you gave some cash to someone in a lay-by IIRC. :-) >> Your point of view is just as valid as all the others, and the forum >> would be poorer without it. >> Let me try and make it a little clearer. DaveTD says "You don't ask, you don't get, right?" when he asks to borrow money from forum members to get himself out of his debt problems. He says he got in to this problem because "I was convinced I could handle the repayments, it wouldn't get out of hand, etc etc. 19% credit card, 29% overdraft, 59% loan, all to keep the girlfriend happy. It's frighteningly easy, " So he borrowed some money, then more at higher rates to pay of the initial debt, then at extortionate rates to pay off that. It was frighteningly easy because as he now says ""You don't ask, you don't get, right?" So he is now doing the same, except he wants to borrow from the forum and he has discovered that "It is frighteningly easy because he asked only for a loan but got gifted the money instead." He therefore gets his belief reinforced that to solve one debt, you borrow from another source "You don't ask, you don't get, right?". IMO, the DaveTD was doing the best thing for himself and his daughter by virtue of his hard slog to pay his own way, from the pittance of an honest wage that he is earning. >> I was beginning to wonder about some >> of rtj70's recent posts meself. :) >> Not forgetting that he is going to get a BMW M5 next year. :) Last edited by: Suppose on Fri 10 Sep 10 at 16:25
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 16:44
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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| BMW 520d SE if I get one actually. But I might decide to trade down and save the difference in money. ;-) |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 16:45
Credit Ratings - Zero
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>> >> I was beginning to wonder about some >> >> of rtj70's recent posts meself. :) >> >> >> Not forgetting that he is going to get a BMW M5 next year. :) Dont worry, I have plans to scupper rtj70's gazziliabyte broadband, I have the expanding foam, just waiting to track down the correct node cabinet. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 16:47
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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| I'm about half way between two cabinets so it's 50:50 for you to guess the right one :-) |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 16:48
Credit Ratings - Zero
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| Its ok, I have two cans and I dont mind some collateral damage. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 16:54
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...He therefore gets his belief reinforced that to solve one debt, you borrow from another source IMO, DaveTD was doing the best thing for himself and his daughter by virtue of his hard slog to pay his own way, from the pittance of an honest wage that he is earning... Suppose, The above point - eloquently put if I may say so - was concerning me. I've no direct counter for it, although I do think Dave's already put in a fair bit of 'hard slog'. As of today he owes, I dunno, about £25K, and there is no realistic prospect of him paying that back in much fewer than 10 or 20 years. Does his previous stupidity warrant a near life-sentence of debt repayment? I don't think so and the existence of the bankruptcy option supports my view. Easy for me to say, because I'm not one of those who's going to be knocked. One of the things that tipped it for me was the 60 per cent loan. Any institution that signs people up to those terms is little better than the cowboy builders who charge the elderly £5,000 to replace a slate. That's not business, that's taking advantage, and the lender deserves all they are not now going to get. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 17:41
Credit Ratings - paulb
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>> One of the things that tipped it for me was the 60 per cent loan. >> Me too. As some may have guessed from a few things I have said on here and in the other place, I have some professional involvement in matters of insolvency. Sadly - based on my experience of dealing with them after the event - your average high-APR lender will not be bothered in the slightest by being told by a borrower that he/she intends to petition for bankruptcy. What they'll do is send in a debt collection agency or three, to try and strongarm a few quid before it happens. They will probably still do it once the bankruptcy order has been made - seen that many a time. Simple fact is, our man here has made a few financial decisions which (in hindsight) weren't right. If that results in him being unable to pay his debts (and he is able to satisfy a judge in that respect) then he is entitled to the protection from his creditors that the Insolvency Act allows. Personally I prefer this kind of system to the earlier one where we used to bang people up in the Fleet or the Marshalsea, but that's just me. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 21:04
Credit Ratings - swiss tony
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I would love to donate to Dave's fund, but due to my own financial situation I am unable. I can understand how it is very easy to get into dire money problems, and not be totally to blame. Good luck Dave! Here follows a brief explanation of how I got to where I am (broke) Wife and I have a joint account, that we share - I pay my wages in, she spends it. we end up with a fairly large overdraft, credit card bill etc. We split up, she has the kids, she gets rent paid etc, and pays nothing into our joint account, the interest charges stack up, increasing the debt. I am effectively homeless, and end up living with my parents. CAB and everyone I ask cannot/will not help, other than telling to to contact all the people I owe money to, and come to agreements. All those people don't care about me, or the others i owe, all they want is their money NOW. I end up having a nervous breakdown, and in a moment of clarity(?) stop paying creditcard... get taken to court, and the interest stops accruing - light at the end of the tunnel! court agrees to take what i tried to offer the CC company. move forward a few years, debts paid, I start to save. smelly brown stuff hits the fan, for reasons Im not stating here, I end up with the kids. As a single man, I find it impossible to get a council/HA roof over our heads -me being classified as a single man unless the kids are under the same roof as me (my parents cannot house me and the kids) - I end up paying over 1/2 my wages on private rent, the other bills take up the best part of the other 1/2. (by the way, CSA wont help me, as my ex doesn't work.....) So... where do I go from here? all my wages spent before I get them - some debts beginning to form on the horizon.... Aw well... the kids will grow up soon..... (some facts foreshortened / adapted for ease of explanation/hide my identity but mostly as is. ) |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 18:03
Credit Ratings - Manatee
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>>That's not business, that's taking advantage, and the lender deserves all they are not now >>going to get. It's a bit steep for £5000, I'll grant you, but it was a high risk loan (as has now been shown). Assuming it was granted by a regulated institution that doesn't recover money by threats and violence I've no problem with it as such. That said, Dave is where he is. Feckless he may have been but I suspect lesson learned. He sounds wise enough to me to at least be wise after the event and he has my sympathy. "I Suppose" has a point - but perhaps a contribution to DEC as well, rather than instead of, is a charitable idea. I'm ashamed to say I hesitated initially regarding the Pakistan emergency, aware that the country is spending on nuclear weapons etc., but that is hardly the fault, or in the control of, the poor blighters whose land and houses have been washed away. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 18:08
Credit Ratings - Pat
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Suppose Can I just say that none of us are condoning what Dave has done and everything you say is right in a perfect world. Sometimes though, that perfect world you thought you had forever comes crashing down around you, through absolutely no fault of your own. This morning life is perfect, this afternoon you're in a totally different place. Once that happens it all goes on around you as though you're not there, your life spirals downhill fast, the changes, the effects, the shock all take their toll. You think you're coping, you're not. Everyone tells you there's light at the end of the tunnel, there isn't at least until you've recovered sufficiently to take charge of things again. It can take a long time sometimes, months, years, and you hit rock bottom. It must have taken some guts for Dave to ask for a loan on here, and I respect him for that. Bankruptcy will be the best thin g for him, it's a fresh start, a new beginning. No more looking his daughters in the eye telling them they can't go on that school trip and feeling a total failure. None of us think we'll ever go to that place until it happens, when it does we don't think we'll ever get out of it. Dave has that chance, let's show some compassion and help him. A little help means so much .........I know. Pat Last edited by: pda on Fri 10 Sep 10 at 18:09
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 19:33
Credit Ratings - Manatee
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Well said Pat - anyone enjoying schadenfreude here might reflect that a great many people have borrowed recklessly over the last 10 years especially, and many have got away with it by good fortune more than financial acumen. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 15:42
Credit Ratings - Perky Penguin
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Dave have a look at this plus e mail me your bank details. uk.zopa.com/ZopaWeb/ |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 15:50
Credit Ratings - R.P.
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Dave, You've got an e-mail from my personal account (Alfie P) Rob. |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 17:17
Credit Ratings - Ted
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Dave, You should have one from me too. Regards Ted |
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New Fri 10 Sep 10 20:40
Credit Ratings - Redfire
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Dave you should have an email from too Chris |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 09:30
Credit Ratings - Statistical Outlier
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I'm on the side sympathising with Dave. I was extremely lucky that when I got myself into snowballing and unsustainable debt through stupid borrowing (mostly to financeliving costs and travel to see my gf) I was able to rescue myself. Through sheer good fortune I had been able to buy a student house cheaply by piggy-backing my parents mortgage, paying my share. The house went up in value by 150% in the five years I lived there, and even after splitting the profits with my folks, I could pay off the snowballing debts. I dread to think what might have happened otherwise. So, Dave, count me in. You have mail. Gord |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 14:27
Credit Ratings - borasport
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Dave - I'll chuck my two pennorth in as well. |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 15:53
Credit Ratings - Perky Penguin
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| I want to help Dave but he isn't answering my e mail; is anybody else getting communication from him? |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 16:38
Credit Ratings - Ted
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Nowt here either, Percy. Ted |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 17:20
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...Nowt here either, Percy... I had an email from Dave yesterday afternoon to say he was off to work until the small hours. Surprised he's not replied to either of you by now. I have his bank details if that's all you seek, but I imagine you'd rather hear directly from him. |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 17:36
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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Sorry for not being able to answer any emails today. I was unable to get on here until very late last night as I now work part-time and was unloading trucks until 4am. My daughter’s school has been taking part in a parade and gala today and we’ve only just got home. I didn’t expect unanimous support on here, this is after all a “forum”, i.e. a place to debate the rights and wrongs of a subject. I am, however, overwhelmed and humbled by the displays of generosity shown to me by those in a position to do so. I received 8 very kind donations yesterday, and I’m now virtually halfway to the target amount. To my continued amazement, there are another seven offers of help in my inbox today – I’m taking the time to write individual replies as I want to properly express my thanks for everybody’s kindness. |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 17:39
Credit Ratings - R.P.
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| Just to let you know there is "Official Support" for Dave on the site. |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 20:44
Credit Ratings - Perky Penguin
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| Please may we have a link PU? I want to send something before the HMRC c*arp reaches me. BTW did you hear that arrogant man on the radio this am? No apology called for - it was just a reconciliation! Well I don't fancy him and a reconciliation is highly unlikely! |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 20:48
Credit Ratings - Focusless
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>> No apology called for - it was just a reconciliation! Changed his mind after seeing the reaction he got: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11272622 |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 20:58
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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I like the guy's attitude, or at least I think he's got the right attitude for a tax man. There's no room for sentiment in that job. |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 22:23
Credit Ratings - Focusless
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>> I like the guy's attitude, or at least I think he's got the right attitude >> for a tax man. Even after changing his mind and apologising, or not changing his mind and just saying what people want to hear? :) |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 13:02
HMRC Arrogance - Perky Penguin
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Maybe the right attitude for a taxman but it is a snip poor attitude for a human being! He is the head of an organisation that admits to making 6 million mistakes! Just as well he's not building aircraft or in civil engineering!
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 13 Sep 10 at 00:35
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 21:27
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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I couldn't find any link but I think PU is saying the site supports him. Dave_TD's email address is visible in his profile. I've asked Dave_TD to do this but he's not done it.... can this bit of the thread be made into a standalone thread? A bit of a task for the mods but probably no more than five minutes. Dump replies to my other musings on credit ratings as you go. I am sure some think this could be a scam... well I've been reading threads from Dave her and on HJ for years so this would be a really long time in planning for relatively little gain. I think he's been dealt some bad luck and made decisions that he and his ex should not. And I am not judging him. I hope he can turn things around. Anyway should/could this bit be all made a new thread for Dave? |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 22:16
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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Sorry for the long time between postings over the last day or two. As a parent, I've spent the day, well, parenting! But I'm here now. >> can this bit of the thread be made into a standalone thread? I'm rather reluctant to have a standalone thread devoted to this - I really don't want it to snowball into some kind of concerted money-raising effort because that it is not. The entirely voluntary whip-round that it is, is far closer to something I'd feel some degree of comfort with. I've made the mods and the site owner aware of this. I've now received almost half the sum needed and been pledged some more besides. I've sent emails thanking the fifteen forum members who've offered help, and once I have initiated the bankruptcy process I'll send members a link to the relevant entry in the gazette of insolvencies - to reassure them of my bona fides. |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 22:43
Credit Ratings - swiss tony
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| Good luck Dave, I hope this gets you back on track. |
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New Sat 11 Sep 10 23:17
Credit Ratings - Ted
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I don't seem to be one of those 15, Dave. perhaps you didn't get my EMail. Rob, could you send me the details just in case jowettland@ntlworld.com I used a different EMail address when I moved over to C4P but I can't seem to access it now. It just keeps flirting me back to the above one. Ted |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 09:36
Credit Ratings - Statistical Outlier
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I got a reply last night. All the best Dave, hope this works out for you. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 12:06
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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If we had a Thread of the Year award, I think this one would be a major contender. Whilst I much enjoy the chat elsewhere - even my childish spats with Zero - this has taken my internet forum hobby to a new level. It's also a good advertisement for letting things flow and drift a bit. When the thread started, I thought we were going to be hearing a rather too large amount about the OP's rather large bank balance. Which we did for a time, but to be fair to rtj70, as soon as Dave posted, he was first to suggest a whip round, and one of the first to put his hand in his pocket. It has been fascinating to see who followed, who didn't, who posted in the thread, who didn't. I'd love to see Dave's full list of donors (wouldn't you?) - not that he's going to show me. Forum member Suppose bravely, and very fairly, put the other side of the argument. One of the great strengths of this thread is it's about people, one in particular, but also the rest of us. Cars are ultimately boring - the producers of Top Gear know that - which is why the show is more about presenters and guests, than it is about motors. And there's something compelling about another's misfortune - rather like rubber-necking at a road accident. I was a bit uneasy at first about assisting Dave to go bankrupt over the internet - I couldn't get the concept of 'assisted suicides' out of my mind. I've made it clear to him my gift is for him to do with exactly as he pleases, although he was good enough to outline his thought process to me. Dave has considered this matter very carefully, and I trust him to make the right decision. He also told me he's run out of ways of saying 'thank you'. Well, I've got quite a lot out of this thread, one way and another, so I would like to say 'thank you' to Dave for having the courage to open his problems to the forum. And thanks to the management and mods for exercising good judgment in letting the thread develop. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 13:03
Credit Ratings - Ted
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My bit we be in on Tuesday, Dave...for some reason tomorrow was not a good day for my bank. Probably too much to chat about over the weekend's football and other events ! I have a condition to impose, if I may...tell us about your daughter, to whom you are so obviously devoted. I have two of these expensive items......and a son to mop up any change left over. All left home now but the Bank of Dad still has to be kept open ! I remember having to search all my pockets for coins to buy a paper early in marriage so I guess it's a case of There but for the grace, etc. My son had a partner who was a complete waste of space. They had a son together and eventually she chucked my lad out because he didn't earn enough to satisfy her drug habit. She now has 3 kids by about 6 different fathers ! My boy has his son every weekend and, with his new partner, they go camping and do all sorts of ' family ' things. My eldest daughter recently had her husband walk out on the marriage due to another girl. She's got the house and their daughter but it's quite a struggle for her So, there's always something to smack you in the face as you go through life. Good luck to you and the girl....back on track soon...I really hope. Ted |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 13:36
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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>> large amount about the OP's rather large bank balance. Who said I had a large bank balance? :-) I fairly recently got rid of a mortgage and had to cover temporary accommodation for around 6 months before we bought this house. Anyway I'm glad my silly thread was of some use in the end. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 13:40
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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| I notice too that iffy as some of called him has adopted our form of his old name ;-) |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 13:46
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...Who said I had a large bank balance?... rtj, You did, actually. Quoting from this thread: "I don't have instant access to £100k tonight but might stretch to £65k thinking about it!" But hey, we're only funnin, so I'll leave that one there. As you say, the main thing is a slightly unpromising thread has turned out to be of great assistance to one member. And of great interest to a lot of others. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 14:48
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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| I was talking credit... my bank for instance keep telling me I can borrow £25k instantly. So £65k in total using a couple of credit cards and my savings too. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 15:00
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...I was talking credit... Ah, gotcha. Forum Member in Slight Misunderstanding Shock. :) I imagine one could borrow quite a bit against a mortgage-free house, although the lender ought to want to know how he's going to get his money back, other than calling in the security. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 15:17
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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I was not talking against the house although all loans are ultimately against a house. I rarely have more than a few hundred on a credit car (holiday bookings etc.) but one keeps upping the limit. Hoping I bite I guess! Obviously we do have plans to save now and possibly escape the UK. The person that bought our old house I think had a mortgage of £300k!! |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 13:53
Credit Ratings - Fenlander
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>>>It has been fascinating to see who followed, who didn't, who posted in the thread, who didn't. I'd love to see Dave's full list of donors (wouldn't you?) Good post Iffy... apart from the above which 100% goes against the goodwill present on the thread. I've not posted and not donated so far... do tell me how that fascinates you? Having said that the family have had an interesting teatime discussion about Dave's plight.. particularly as we have two early teen girls with friends who are so strapped for cash they can never give birthday presents.... they are very sensitive to their lack of family cash but we have managed to subsidise many outings for them without them realising the extent of costs involved. Of course too, as with many folks, there is a sense of *there but for the grace of God*. I did have a way I might help Dave in mind but any perceived audit trail on my actions are far more likely to make me walk away. Last edited by: Fenlander on Sun 12 Sep 10 at 13:57
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 14:05
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...I've not posted and not donated so far...do tell me how that fascinates you?... Fenlander, It just does, not you individually, but the general concept fascinates me. I bet a lot of members have thought: "I'm surprised XXXX hasn't had something to say on this one", or: "YYYY has shoved his oar in - no surprise there", when looking at this thread. I'm just being honest, and certainly not critical of anyone. After all, there are some members who have donated, but not posted, and I don't support 99.99999 per cent of good causes. Give or take the odd immigrant in a lay-by. :) |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 14:13
Credit Ratings - Fenlander
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The post I had in mind a couple of days ago was 100% support for Dave mentioning the issue and 100% support for him taking whatever steps needed to get some kind of settled future to support his daughter. I wonder if she has reached the teen stage yet.... we are certainly finding the demands of our two hard to keep up with. I think direct support for folks in this way actually has a great deal of credibility compared with throwing a tenner into a flood appeal... cuts out the middle man in a big way. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 13:28
Credit Ratings - Perky Penguin
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| Me too and I've done an on line transfer. I like the way that this has gone, nobody is being too judgemental and things are more tones of gey than the extremes of black and white! |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 13:30
Credit Ratings - R.P.
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| Wonders never cease Perky ! |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 16:36
Credit Ratings - Runfer D'Hills
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OK Iffy, I'll bite. Dave, I do very much synpathise with you. The feelings of financial hopelessness are no stranger to me. I've been so close to the edge on a number of occasions. Some more recently than you might imagine. I didn't shut down my business and take a job last year for the hell of it.... But....as for the going bankrupt thing. Please do think long and hard before taking that step. Not just for what it means for you and your ability to get future credit etc but also the moral issues here. The main reason for my having experienced periodic financial hardships has been people who owed me money failing to pay it and in many cases going bankrupt to avoid their debts. The reason I no longer have a pension and will have to work until I drop is because I had to cash it in to cover a rapid succession of bad debt from both large businesses putting themselves into liquidation and sole traders declaring convenience bankruptcy. Now I'm not suggesting any of this applies in your case. maybe you are simply a victim, but failure to pay debts creates further victims. Whether a lender is a large business or an individual the principle is the same. I do though wish you luck. Sometimes clouds genuinely do have silver linings and this period in your life will make you stronger as a man if you can find a way of untangling it and moving forward. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 18:49
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...OK Iffy, I'll bite... Humph, I'm not trying to make anyone 'bite' - I have my serious, considered head on for this thread, as indeed do you. Can't disagree with a word you say, although I don't think Dave has been recklessly running up debts in the last few months to deliberately go 'pop'. His recklessness ended a year or two ago. But as I said in an earlier post, it's fairly easy for me to support him because I'm not one of those who's going to be knocked. His conduct will also be examined by his trustee in bankruptcy and a district judge. That examination may not be as rigorous as some would like, but it will discover if he's been playing 'fast and loose' with lenders. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 19:48
Credit Ratings - Suppose
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>> But....as for the going bankrupt thing. Please do think long and hard before taking that >> step. Not just for what it means for you and your ability to get future >> credit etc but also the moral issues here. >> >> a victim, but failure to pay debts creates further victims. Whether a lender is a >> large business or an individual the principle is the same. >> I agree fully with your post, Humph. When a bankruptcy is declared, there will always be innocent victims at the end of the chain. The victims will usually be at the "bottom of the food chain", and they will share the burden as they pick up the cost of the reckless spending habits of someone else. Someone, who, of their own free will, found it all too easy to borrow money, albeit at what other may consider to be extortionate interest rates but the rates still appealed to the borrower. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 20:14
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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Instead of lending to someone seen as a bad credit risk at a high interest rate, is it not better all round not to lend large sums at all. They possibly won't be able to afford to pay it back and could end up not doing so. The companies that charge high interest rates factor in defaulters hence the high interest rates. Do you think a company like Provident lends to many/any with good credit histories? |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 20:26
Credit Ratings - Manatee
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>>Instead of lending to someone seen as a bad credit risk at a high interest rate, is it not better all round not to lend large sums at all. No. The problem is that you can't stop unregulated lending. One of the proposals that comes up from time to time is APR caps. But a cap of say, 25% would mean that most of Provi's customers couldn't borrow legally. Inevitably loan sharks would prosper. The "responsible lending" measures coming in soon are well-intentioned, but will also have unintended consequences. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 20:21
Credit Ratings - Manatee
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A thought provoking post Humph. The retailer pre-pack administrations of 2008, 2009 were appalling, legal no doubt but morally fraudulent in my opinion. Debts to suppliers were just dumped, often deals were done with landlords, themselves large companies. The suppliers and contractors had usually built up higher than usual debtors and many of them were small companies. If you were one, you would have have every right to be angry. I do wonder sometimes whether it is worth trying to provide for oneself and one's family, paying one's way and what to me are large amounts of tax, and still looking at a penurious retirement, when others are feckless yet able to walk away from their debts. Even more so if I then have help to support them on benefits. But I'd still rather be in my position than theirs. |
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New Sun 12 Sep 10 20:35
Credit Ratings - -
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I've not been reading this thread until today. I respect all opinions here as most if not all of you know a hell of a lot more than i do about such things. There's a huge difference between a normal working person whose got himself into a pickle, there's often a sponge around somewhere (no offence to anyone here) who's wiled the poor blighter into it, and the sort of going bust that Hump speaks of. I've seen a lot of that in the transporter industry over the past few years, companies knowingly running up huge debts with smaller companies and then regularly in some cases going broke and starting up again the following day with the same trucks and drivers and contracts (except one that i know of and well done that NW manufacturer for telling them to clear off), leaving as Hump points out smaller companies reeling. Interestingly from the transport game these shyster here today back tomorrow with an extra letter in the company name types never fail to pay the fuel companies...odd that, couldn't be anything to do with their strength could it? |
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New Mon 13 Sep 10 01:59
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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I'm amazed by the generosity and insightfulness of all the contributors to this thread, and I appreciate that it's not something many people would entertain. In fact I wouldn't blame most people for thinking "bankruptcy - woaah" and backing away. It still holds a stigma, and although it is the best way forward in my situation it will nonetheless be a source of shame for me for a long time. My debts are with huge financial corporations that can generate profits equal to my total debts in ten minutes flat*, but that fact doesn’t make the sums I owe any less real. However, as paulb says some distance above, despite some years of trying, I’m unable to pay my debts (and will be able to satisfy a trustee judge in that respect) so I’m entitled to the protection from my creditors that the Insolvency Act allows. The Act is in place for, among others, folk like me. I can scarcely take in how benevolent people on here have been to me, and I will keep those who've donated, informed of how things progress. Rest assured I’m respecting people’s privacy and will not share details of other benefactors either in public or in personal emails. I hope I can be as altruistic one day in the future when someone worse off than me needs a hand up. Dave TD. *£1.2bn pounds a year = £2,281.59 per minute. |
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New Mon 13 Sep 10 09:42
Credit Ratings - Runfer D'Hills
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Dave, I wish you all the luck in the world. I mean that sincerely and what follows is not a personal attack on you. Your circumstances are your own affair and I don't presume to make any comment or judgement specific to them. I do hope that is crystal clear. You must of course do what is right for you and your family. What I am interested to explore though through the discussions on this thread is our attitude to debt and its impact on the innocent. As stated above, my future and my family's future has been stolen by bad debtors. Goods and services I provided have not been paid for and many have quite legally wriggled out of their obligations by use of voluntary liquidation, bankruptcy or indeed the pre-pack arrangements Manatee describes. I was forced to shut down my business into which I had ploughed everything but I am pleased to say I managed to do so without owing anyone anything in the end. There is though nothing left to show for all those years. My sales and expenditure were healthily in balance but bad debt got me in the end. It's the casual attitude to this which angers me the most. Only last week a guy who two years ago took me personally for an admittedly relatively small amount in the scheme of things ( £8000 ) had the audacity to call me up as if I was his long lost friend asking me to supply his resurrected company in my capacity as a director of a potential supplier. Well, I leave you to figure out what I told him he could do. |
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New Mon 13 Sep 10 09:49
Credit Ratings - R.P.
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I know what I would have said. Hope you left him in no doubt. I was miss-sold an endowment policy, I complained and after some delay caused by the seller not co-operating with the company involved in not returning pro-formas which resulted in a personal visit to his gaff to er..persuade him, I eventually got my money back and some compensation. I phoned him to tell him of the settlement and he had the cheek to offer me his advisory services on how to invest it ! The neck of some people !
Last edited by: Pugugly on Mon 13 Sep 10 at 09:50
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New Mon 13 Sep 10 10:07
Credit Ratings - Zero
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>> to offer me his advisory services on how to invest it ! The neck of >> some people ! Its called optimism, all salesmen need it or they would slit their throats. |
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New Mon 13 Sep 10 10:15
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...What I am interested to explore though through the discussions on this thread is our attitude to debt and its impact on the innocent... I think there is a danger of confusing business and personal debts. Humph, From what I can gather of your posts, you were a one man band, but it was a properly constituted business. To be owed money, I'm assuming you supplied goods and/or services on credit. It is not compulsory to do that, although my limited knowledge of business tells me it might as well be, because no one will deal with you in any other way. In hindsight, do you think you let your debtors' book get out of hand? Would it have been better to look into credit factoring - I think that's what it's called - at least some of what was owed to you? |
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New Mon 13 Sep 10 10:23
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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>>I think there is a danger of confusing business and personal debts. When it comes to personal debt, and borrowing for large financial institutions. I always thought they only offered high APR terms to those with poor credit knowing some would never repay. The high APR covers the risk. A lot of those taking out these loans would repay them. In he case of Dave in this thread, I am sure if he was able to work full-time he'd be paying his back. For various reasons including being a single parent he is unable to. The way some businesses can close down with debts and reopen with the same people, a similar name and possibly the same premises etc is criminal and should not be allowed. |
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New Mon 13 Sep 10 10:34
Credit Ratings - Fenlander
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>>>The way some businesses can close down with debts and reopen with the same people, a similar name and possibly the same premises etc is criminal and should not be allowed. Builder down the road did this a few years back owing money to both larger suppliers and local private folks. Opened up the next day with just one word changed in the company name, same premises, same stock... kept his Rolls, his house and the Mrs kept her Mercedes. I see a big difference between this type of situation (particularly when done at the £million+ level) and Dave's. |
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New Mon 13 Sep 10 10:27
Credit Ratings - Runfer D'Hills
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| No, I'm not at all confused. I am though, I hope, much wiser. Let life's next chapter begin....... |
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New Mon 27 Sep 10 14:18
Credit Ratings - Mapmaker
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>> In fact I wouldn't blame >> most people for thinking "bankruptcy - woaah" and backing away. It still holds a stigma, >> and although it is the best way forward in my situation it will nonetheless be >> a source of shame for me for a long time. And quite rightly it should hold a stigma. Defliberate failing to pay back money that has been borrowed is - under any circumstances other than bankrupcy - theft. >> My debts are with huge financial corporations that can generate profits equal to my total >> debts in ten minutes flat*, but that fact doesn’t make the sums I owe any >> less real. That is absolutely irrelevant, and though I was vaguely tempted at the time to contribute to the fund is the reason I did not. And who do you think owns the huge financial corporations? 1. The taxpayers - you and me and everybody. Every penny not repaid to a taxpayer-owned bank is money stolen from the people of the UK. 2. Anybody who has money in a pension. Every penny not repaid to a pension-owned bank is money stolen from the working people and pensioners of the UK. 3. Anybody who banks with the same organisation. The more people who wriggle out of paying their debts, the more expensive it is for people with poor credit ratings to borrow. It's the same thought process that says shoplifting from Tescos is OK but mugging grannies is not. Shoplifting from Tescos is mugging grannies. |
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New Mon 27 Sep 10 14:44
Credit Ratings - Clk Sec
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| I hope your situation is improving, Dave. You have the support of many on this forum. |
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New Mon 27 Sep 10 14:58
Credit Ratings - Zero
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>> Shoplifting from Tescos is mugging grannies. Yes - have you seen the age of the checkout girls these days? 65 if they are a day. |
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New Mon 27 Sep 10 15:15
Credit Ratings - Clk Sec
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>>Shoplifting from Tescos is mugging grannies. >>Yes - have you seen the age of Give me a shout when they next have their 2008 Chateau De Ligny Chablis on offer at £4.99. Bought a case last time; should have bought more. Thought I'd ask - nearest Tesco is some distance away. |
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New Mon 27 Sep 10 15:36
Chateau De Ligny at Tesco - Perky Penguin
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www.tesco.com/Wine/Product/Details/?id=265540866 Under £40 for a case of 12 |
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New Mon 27 Sep 10 15:56
Chateau De Ligny at Tesco - Clk Sec
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>>Under £40 for a case I think that's for a case of 6, Sir. But many thanks for the info. Clk Sec |
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New Mon 27 Sep 10 15:57
Chateau De Ligny at Tesco - Zero
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>> >>Under £40 for a case >> >> I think that's for a case of 6, Sir. But many thanks for the info. Indeed, Pffftttttt Damn part time drinkers, what do they know? |
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New Mon 27 Sep 10 17:43
Chateau De Ligny at Tesco - Perky Penguin
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| Soirry! To me case is always 12! Hope the price is right, even for 6, if it is what you wan |
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New Mon 27 Sep 10 19:13
Chateau De Ligny at Tesco - Clk Sec
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>>To me case is always 12! And to me, Sir. No idea how long they've been 6 to a case. Elf 'n safety, I guess. |
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New Tue 28 Sep 10 06:23
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...Every penny not repaid to a taxpayer-owned bank is money stolen from the people of the UK... Strong stuff, but what actually happens when someone such as Dave defaults on, say, a £1,000 loan? Either the bank posts profits reduced by £1,000, or it finds a way of recovering the money by charging 1,000 good customers £1 each. It's probably a mixture of both, but more of the former - bad debts impact on profits more than anywhere else. Put another way, would borrowing be significantly cheaper if there were no bad debts? I doubt it, but bank profits would be higher. It's also worth considering the actual loss to the bank by a personal bankruptcy. Dave, in common with most people in his position, has struggled to make payments over a few years. Much of what he now owes is interest, which bears little resemblance to the original sum borrowed. Let's say the example £1,000 loan is repayable by 12 monthly payments of £100 - total £1,200. Dave makes eight payments and defaults. The bank hasn't lost £1,200, or even £1,000, it's lost £200, but the bank's claim will be much higher than that because of compounded interest. In some cases, the bankrupt will have repaid a sum equivalent to the original advance and owe only interest. Personal bankruptcy may have some adverse impact on lenders, but calling it 'theft' is inaccurate. Last edited by: Iffy on Tue 28 Sep 10 at 06:24
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New Mon 13 Sep 10 19:41
Credit Ratings - Roger.
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Have a look here, Dave. Very helpful & genuine. www.theba.org.uk/index.php Last edited by: landsker on Mon 13 Sep 10 at 19:42
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New Mon 13 Sep 10 20:56
Credit Ratings - mikeyb
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A good friend of mine had his business go bust last year. He ran an employment agency when one of his bigest customers folded. He tried to trade out of it, and the taxman did give him more time, just not enough. When the writing was on the wall he made sure all the staff were paid upto date when he shut up shop. The iritating thing is that he has personally lost a 6 figure sum, and is now possibly going to lose his home (he has 4 young children) but the customer who went bust on him appears to have suffered no personal loss, and is still driving around in the same Merc |
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New Mon 13 Sep 10 21:20
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...www.theba.org.uk/index.php... Years ago, I spoke to the guy who now runs this site. Didn't quite take to him, he had a chip on his shoulder and was quite militant - the bankrupts equivalent of Stonewall. I did have a quick look at the site a few days ago, and didn't see anything that would directly help Dave, who has already researched the topic thoroughly. Dave wants to get the job done and move on - I'd recommend he steers clear of this site, which is more for those who want to wallow in their bankruptcy. Just my opinion, obviously. Last edited by: Iffy on Mon 13 Sep 10 at 21:21
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New Mon 13 Sep 10 21:53
Credit Ratings - Bagpuss
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Come to this thread very late. Dave, I hope you can find a way out of your predicament. I've had financial ups and downs and times when I really didn't know how I was going to dig myself out of the financial hole I'd got myself into. I've learned to appreciate the economic good times knowing a repeat of the economic bad times is only a bad decision away. I struggle with the idea of voluntary bankruptcy though. My brother ran a software business which he eventually had to wind down due to his customers (small businesses) going "bankrupt". He lost all his savings and it took him years to pay off his debts, which he did without declaring himself bankrupt, but which certainly killed off his entrepreneurial drive. The sharp practices he encountered were virtually as bad as what I encounter in my dealings with Russia. |
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New Mon 13 Sep 10 22:41
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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>> Dave, I wish you all the luck in the world. I mean that sincerely and what follows is not a personal attack on you. >>Your circumstances are your own affair and I don't presume to make any comment or judgement specific to them. >> I do hope that is crystal clear. >> You must of course do what is right for you and your family. Thank you Humph. As one of the forum members with whom I’ve shared banter on a number of occasions, I appreciate you taking the time to differentiate between my situation and your own adverse experience from the other side of the fence. Landsker, thank you for the “theba.org” link. I’ve read it all through (whilst Iffy was posting on it, as it turned out) and I found the point of view expressed there to be of someone who’s been successful in building up their assets and lifestyle and then ended up losing them all through bankruptcy. I’m in a different boat, having never really had any assets to speak of – the only decent cars I’ve owned were used for my taxi work in the early 2000s and I’ve never owned a house or taken foreign holidays. I think/hope I will find bankruptcy less devastating than the guy who has lost his house, boat and Porsche. I decided when this first took off that I’m not going to give running totals, nor go into great detail to justify myself (no lamenting about low pay or descending into pathetic “we lived in shoebox in t’gutter” territory), rather I put forward my situation as it stands and left it up to others to decide whether they wanted to help out. Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Mon 13 Sep 10 at 22:43
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New Fri 15 Oct 10 17:37
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...update... I received an email from Dave to say C4P donations reached £480, enough to cover the £450 county court deposit. It has taken a while to get his paperwork in order, but he plans to start the bankruptcy process within a few days. Dave tells me he will send each benefactor an email after he has been to the court. |
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New Fri 15 Oct 10 18:15
Credit Ratings - Ted
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Thanks for that, Iffers. It's good to know he's in a position to get things in order. Good luck, Dave , hope it all goes smoothly for you. Ted |
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New Sat 16 Oct 10 14:29
Credit Ratings - Clk Sec
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>>I received an email from Dave That's a bit of good news. |
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New Sat 16 Oct 10 16:15
Credit Ratings - L'escargot
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>> I checked my Experian (Credit Expert) rating earlier today ............ Just out of interest I might check my credit rating. I'm only curious to know what form it takes ~ a written report or just a percentage? The only credit I've ever had has been mortages, and it's too late for me to change the habit of a lifetime. My parents drummed into me that it's daft to buy things on credit because it means you're paying more for them than if you saved up and then paid outright. Last edited by: L'escargot on Sat 16 Oct 10 at 16:17
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New Sat 16 Oct 10 16:31
Credit Ratings - Falkirk Bairn
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The credit rating on the site I visited gave a score out of 1000, I got 995. The free check on the site is free for 1 month IIRC, the credit score is not free £5.00 IIRC |
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New Sat 16 Oct 10 18:21
Credit Ratings - Manatee
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>>Just out of interest I might check my credit rating. I'm only curious to know what form it takes Your credit reference agency (CRA) file only reflects what you already know about yourself, unless there's something wrong with it. If you suspect there is, it's worth checking; otherwise be prepared not to be astounded. If you have a mortgage, it will show the balance and the monthly payment. Ditto loans, credit cards or mail order accounts, limits and utilisation. Payment history for accounts is usually shown as a series of numbers, each representing the arrears status for successive historic months - so a string of 0s indicates payments are up to date and being made monthly. 654321000000 would indicate that a payment was first missed 6 months ago and nothing has been paid since. The CRAs also derive a generic credit score and it is a version of this that is given as 995 or whatever. The key to a high score is several recent or current accounts that are conducted satisfactorily (for "non-credit users" this may be mortgages and credit cards that are paid off monthly). Overlimit accounts or arrears will knock it down; recorded default notices or County Court Judgements will slaughter it. If you haven't had a mortgage for years, have no loans, mail order account, credit cards or overdraft limits, then your score may be a bit lower - you have what is called a "thin file" which limits the usefulnessness of the CRA data; if you are not on the electoral roll either, you may encounter problems or delays with credit applications, as there is potentially no data that even ties you to the address you give a prospective lender. That's about it really - I've worked in the sector for over 30 years, but I haven't bothered to check my own record for at least 20. Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 16 Oct 10 at 18:23
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New Sat 16 Oct 10 19:52
Credit Ratings - rtj70
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| I only did it myself out of curiosity - you will all probably have seen the advert. The access to the service is free (credit rating check isn't) via my home insurance. It flagged up via an email a change a few weeks ago which was a valid change - I got a new mobile phone on contract. |
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New Mon 1 Nov 10 22:58
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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Time for an update: My bankruptcy is underway now, thanks entirely to the generosity of a number of contributors to this forum in having a whip-round to raise the Official Receiver's fees. I still maintain it's the best thing I could do in the circumstances, hopefully it will be reasonably painless to go through and will let me move on and do what's best for my children over the next few years. All my benefactors have an email with more details, I can only thank everyone so much I guess. On with the show.... Dave TD |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 04:47
Credit Ratings - Pat
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Good to hear it's all gone according to plan, Dave Now it's time to make a fresh start and that includes not being a stranger on here. Pat |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 07:09
Credit Ratings - Clk Sec
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| That's good news, Dave. Best of luck for the future. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 07:26
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...Now it's time to make a fresh start and that includes not being a stranger on here... That's quite right, Dave, you've been neglecting your forum responsibilities for too long. You are almost certainly no longer the poorest person on here now your balance is zero - there will be plenty in nett debt - so you've no excuse for not joining in. :) |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 07:43
Credit Ratings - Buddy
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that's good news for you, Dave - and should make for a happier Christmas for you and the kids. PS tried to reply to your email, but "failed" message came up! |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 09:39
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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>> PS tried to reply to your email, but "failed" message came up! Oh gawd, they haven't frozen my hotmail account as well have they?? ;) |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 09:42
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...but "failed" message came up!... I didn't know hotmail commented on recipients. :) |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 10:12
Credit Ratings - Buddy
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| what a sad jibe, not even funny |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 10:14
Credit Ratings - Pat
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I think it's called humour. Pat |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 10:22
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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Don't worry, it was taken in the manner intended. That's what the smiley at the end is for. I've kept my head down lately because, well, until I'd got the bankruptcy process in motion I was effectively sitting on a pile of other peoples' money with no proof that it was still there or being used in the right way. Now it's done I know I can contribute to the banter on here without worrying that my presence will raise questions in others' minds. This place is great for relaxing and chatting, so I'm glad to feel comfortable doing both of those again. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 10:42
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...Don't worry, it was taken in the manner intended... Thanks for that, Dave. Even I thought twice before pressing the 'post' button, but the most casual of glances at the thread shows where I really stand. ...This place is great for relaxing and chatting, so I'm glad to feel comfortable doing both of those again... Pleased to hear it. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 21:07
Credit Ratings - -
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I was effectively sitting on a pile of other peoples' money with no proof >> that it was still there or being used in the right way. I doubt anyone normal here ever gave that notion a second thought. Pleased to hear that things are looking up for you. And yes get posting, it's about time we had some common sense opinions here...besides mine that is..;) |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 21:27
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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>> And yes get posting, >> it's about time we had some common sense opinions here Make your mind up! ;) |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 21:44
Credit Ratings - RattleandSmoke
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Hope you get it sorted, I would have donated a small amount but with similar problems but not as bad problems as home it would have been a bit strange. My parents situation is very different as they do have a lot of equality in the house though. At least you can now slowly start again and not have to worry about all the debts. Good luck with everything and I am sure long term it was the best solution. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 22:00
Credit Ratings - scousehonda
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| I think that there is an awful lot of ignorance on this thread about the implications of going into bankruptcy. It's not just a case of being declared bankrupt and then forgetting about the past and starting again. Ramifications will be present for many years. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 22:03
Credit Ratings - RattleandSmoke
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Yep such as having a basic band account and not been able to get credit etc. But it has to be better than the constant letters and threats all the time. If you have no assets then it is often a good idea. As far as I am aware all Dave owns is an old Mondeo which he needs for work so that asset is safe. I am sure Dave didn't go down this route lightly. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 22:14
Credit Ratings - scousehonda
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| I don't think that even a 'basic' bank account will be available and, as for the letters and threats disappearing, I think not. Debt collectors are ruthless beyond comprehension and even though they might eventually realise that they are banging against an open door the intrusions into Dave's life won't just stop because he has become bankrupt. I hope that he is able to get himself back on track but it certainly won't be easy and, I repeat, bankruptcy is not an easy get out option. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 22:16
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...I don't think that even a 'basic' bank account will be available... scousehonda, As a matter of fact, a basic bank account is a available to a newly-declared bankrupt. As a matter of opinion, I think the rest of your post is spot on. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 22:24
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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>> a basic bank account is a available to a newly-declared bankrupt. It should be Iffy, but alas that's not the case. Very few of the High Street banks feel the need to comply with the Government's request for non-credit-scored accounts open to all so far. Certainly my Yorkshire Bank basic account is being closed and I'm unable to open even a new, completely separate one with them. I've got my interview with the Official Receiver next week, I will ask then what the correct course of action is re bailiffs. Up to now I have received only letters and phone calls, but no visits. This feels like it should be on moneysupermarket's forum, not C4P! :) |
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New Wed 3 Nov 10 04:07
Credit Ratings - Pat
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The law changed quite a lot in 2004 to prevent this sort of thing happening. Dave will now be appointed a Trustee in bankruptcy who will deal with everything for him. He will be told that he is only obliged to inform anyone of his case number and location of the court. After he's done that they cannot contact him again. Here is the official stance 'Both bailiffs and creditors will be advised of your bankruptcy but it does take a certain amount of time for them to receive this information. Once you show them the Bankruptcy Order or advise your creditors of the Bankruptcy Order Number over the telephone, they must back off immediately. If for any reason you do receive a visit from a bailiff all you need to do is show them your bankruptcy order or confirm to them that the order has been granted. They have a duty to leave you alone, and if they persist then they are in breach of their official guidelines which is a criminal offence' The Trustee will advise that no payment can be made to any creditor and they have to be informed of any request for payment. Pat |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 22:15
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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It's an Escort, not as nice as a Mondeo. But still nicer than a Fiesta ;-p I *had* a basic bank account, but it's been frozen and will now be closed. I've opened another one with a different bank after trying the "recommended" banks and being turned away from all of them. I did wonder why so many websites exist that offer to arrange a bankrupts-accepted current account for a fee, now it's becoming clear. I've also found today that banking hall reception desks are not designed for discretion. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 22:40
Credit Ratings - scousehonda
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Dave and Iffy My recent posts have not been made without a degree of experience. I worked in the world of consumer credit for 20 years and saw both sides of what, at times, was a seedy business. In times of perceived affluence credit is made available to all and sundry. The bubble bursts and then the problems begin. Debt collectors, in their recent guise, are an unwholesome byproduct of the recent credit crunch (or credit squeeze as it used to be called) and the recent 'remedy' of becoming bankrupt is only a short term fix. Dave's experience of having his 'basic' bank account frozen more or less backs up my earlier comment and I sincerely hope that he doesn't get back into a spiral of getting involved with unscrupulous financial organisations that will put him back to a situation from which he is trying to escape. Best wishes, Dave. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 22:46
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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Thanks scousehonda. I have no intention of going anywhere near any credit for a very long time! I've managed to run a household on benefits and then part-time wages for the last year and a half without borrowing, so I'm well set to continue in that vein for the foreseeable. Looking at other forums connected to money management, it seems a lot of people can't wait to get themselves in hock again at the first available opportunity. I'm well out of all that and I intend to stay out - it's a horrible place to be. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 22:46
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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Happily Dave says (above): "I've opened another one with a different bank." So he has got a basic bank account up and running, which is a good start. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 22:56
Credit Ratings - scousehonda
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"Happily Dave says (above): "I've opened another one with a different bank." So he has got a basic bank account up and running, which is a good start" Iffy and Dave My sincere hope is that the 'basic' account that you, Dave, have opened is not one with another unscrupulous financial organisation who will take advantage. I am sure that your recent experiences will hold you in good stead and prevent you from falling into the same trap again. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 23:05
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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>> not one with another unscrupulous financial organisation who will take advantage Santander. Read into that what you will, given their reputation on the internet... Still, beggars can't be choosers. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 23:07
Credit Ratings - Zero
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> unscrupulous financial organisation who will take advantage Santander are not that, merely a bunch of incompetent useless bankers. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 23:10
Credit Ratings - Dave_
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So I've heard, and read, and seen today when I went back into the branch. EDIT: The trouble with "basic" no-frills bank accounts is that by definition (no overdraft, no fees) they cannot make any profit for the banks offering them. Therefore the banks have no business incentive to offer them, and until they become mandatory they won't start to. |
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New Tue 2 Nov 10 23:16
Credit Ratings - Iffy
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...Santander are not that, merely a bunch of incompetent useless bankers... They made enough dough to buy Abbey National. In banking terms, I suspect they are more than competent. In customer service terms, they may leave a bit to be desired. In Dave's terms, they are a safe haven and a decent enough start on his road to financial rehabilitation. |
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