| Motoring Discussion > Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: tyrednemotional | Replies: 11 |
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New Fri 15 Nov 24 17:08
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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The Smart is coming up to its 7th birthday and, whilst it might be seen as a bit of an extravagance at that age, it was booked into the local Smart (read Mercedes Benz) dealer (the original supplier) for its annual service and MOT. The car costs us very little else, with zero VED and low insurance, and the dealer service gives a year's complimentary extension of the breakdown/roadside assistance, which helps defray the cost a bit. Dropped off in Sheffield at 09:30, with a request to have it done by 15:00,and SWMBO and myself took the tram into the City centre. Partaking of a lunchtime coffee, I got a 'phone call to the effect that the technician doing the work couldn't get the bonnet open, and they'd like to charge me diagnostic time, minimum charge one hour, to ascertain why. "I had the bonnet open this morning", I said, "so there shouldn't be any problem". Then I thought "Has he unlocked it?" That elicited the response that he'd go and check with the "technician" and call me back. Five minutes later he followed up with "He says there are catches either side of the bonnet; the RH one moves with no problem, but the LH one won't move, and he doesn't want to force it". "Yes, but has he unlocked it? That catch is the one the lock works on. There's a flip-out cover next to it that exposes a keyhole that accepts the ignition key". "I'll go and check again and call you back". That was followed by complete radio silence, though by now I was fully expecting a call saying they'd got the bonnet open but couldn't find the engine! (it being rear-engined). I subsequently, after a delay, checked the MOT online to find it had been done, so relaxed somewhat. That bonnet lock is a standard fitment on all Smarts of that vintage, and it was at the Smart main dealer! And people sometimes wonder why I choose to do as much work on my own vehicles as I feel comfortable. (When I picked it up, I told the reception guy that my diagnostic time isn't cheap, and it comes at a minimum of an hour - to be fair, he was a bit sheepish). |
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New Fri 15 Nov 24 17:42
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - Lygonos
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Mercedes "diagnostic time" was the reason I punted my B250e before its third birthday. Sitting with my nice cup of coffee I would time-and-again hear one of the reception ladies telling a customer "there will be an £xxx diagnostic fee to look at the problem". |
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New Fri 15 Nov 24 17:54
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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I can think of circumstances where diagnostic time might be merited......but not to find the manufacturer's standard bonnet lock ;-) ((And I made a mistake. It's coming up to its eighth birthday). |
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New Fri 15 Nov 24 18:27
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - Kevin
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| What is the hourly rate for a highly trained main dealer technician in Sheffield these days? |
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New Fri 15 Nov 24 18:33
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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I think the rate for a Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Fri 15 Nov 24 at 18:34
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New Sun 17 Nov 24 16:58
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - martin aston
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Not quite as bad but I’ve had to correct main dealer Honda, VW and Suzuki dealers about what is in (and out) of the standard manufacture service schedule. Assuming of course the handbook and manufacturer’s webpages are correct. My indie on the other hand works on any car brand and must use a pro database and never been wrong. He even orders engine oil on a per job basis. He gave me a choice of three for my last Golf service. |
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New Mon 18 Nov 24 13:03
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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TBH, that's about the worst I've had, though my experience of so-called Fiat "Professional" dealers (i.e. those that maintain commercial vehicles) has repeatedly been so bad that I prefer to do as much work myself on my motorhome as I can. Over the years, at varying locations I've: Had a heated argument with the workshop foreman at one outlet about the service schedule (he was adamant it was annual, whereas the clearly documented Fiat schedule is 2 years 30,000 miles - the engine shared with the Iveco is annual servicing in the latter, and they also serviced Iveco). Had the brake fluid changed and none of the bleed screw dust caps replaced (And I mean left absent, not that no new ones were supplied). Had the service interval not reset. There are two intervals on recent Ducatos, one for the general servicing interval, and one for oil service (which depending on usage patterns might not be in synch - for most motorhomes oil and general service will coincide at every two years). The service was, of course, done by the "YTS" trainee, but the lead Fiat technician didn't know that there were two items to reset, and didn't know how to do it until I walked him through the software (and didn't believe me until we found it). Not resetting the oil service interval leads fairly rapidly to "limp mode". This is a site that services a large fleet of Ducato ambulances with nominally similar requirements. Same site, after service the vehicle wouldn't rev above idle. Completely impossible to drive away (so obviously hadn't been road tested). After much head scratching the same lead tech as above redeemed himself somewhat. In front of a gathering audience of other mechanics, he finally put diagnostics on the vehicle, watched a few values, said "that doesn't look right", removed the air filter, delved his hand in the bottom (it's a large filter box) and pulled a large leaf out. All was then well. The bonnet air intake, when the bonnet is open, is ideally positioned to drop any detritus straight into the air filter box, which it had done (sloppy work really) and there was virtually no air getting to the engine. When you have such experiences, it does make you wonder what else is going on behind the scenes. |
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New Mon 18 Nov 24 17:17
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - legacylad
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Rightly or wrongly, I’m keeping my GRYaris serviced within the main dealer network in order to maintain the 10 year warranty, although I cba reading the small print of aforementioned. It’s a small garage, sales and service, no longer independent but part of a group. When I rang to enquire the cost of a small service...oil change, I did tell them that I was shopping around. The price dropped at that point, as I had done when it had a major service the previous year. When I took it in I asked to see the tech doing the work, and would it be ok for me to look underneath whilst up on the hydraulic ramp ? They were ok with that, but politely told that next time I should wear steel toe cap boots. Fair enough. The tech showed me all the ‘bits’ underneath which they check, the normal stuff, in addition to another item which was on their ‘to watch’ list...a particular screw adjacent to the exhaust. It cannot come off, but may need tightening at some point, especially if the vehicle has been on a circuit. I was duly impressed and will continue to use them....for the previous years major service they gave me an almost new Aygo X as a courtesy car. Vitara will continue to go my my pal who is chief MOT tester at a large indie on the outskirts of Leeds...he’s a time served mechanic and runs Honda & Toyota cars for himself & spouse. |
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New Thu 28 Nov 24 17:47
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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Following my tangle with Mercedes/Smart, I now have another (unavoidable) opportunity to try out glass (well, in this case as it's "commercial", more plastic but at a similar cost) palaces and diagnostic charging. We've been mulling over changing the motorhome and nearly "pulled the trigger" last week but on reviewing our options we decided that the current 'van, though 6 years old, fits us like a glove, and resolved to run it somewhat longer. That, the current state of the tyres (3mm all round at 33,000 miles! - legal but at my limit) and a Black Friday deal that meant I could get £200 off (actually, around £100 less fitted than the cheapest I could source unfitted) led to a £200 a corner appointment yesterday. When I picked the 'van up, I got a glowplug warning on starting, and it has persisted since. Can't really blame the tyre fitters as they went nowhere near anything involved, though I raised it with them before I left (and they did offer to put it on diagnostics for me). I'm not a great believer in coincidences, but they do sometimes happen. Ducatos are notoriously difficult to work on, though my own diagnostics confirmed a glowplug system problem. Could be the relay, wiring, or glowplug(s) themselves. The relay would have been the best option, but over the various versions it has disappeared further and further into the depths of the engine bay. I couldn't see it (even with inspection light and mirror), and couldn't feel it behind the main engine-bay fusebox, despite postings saying that was possible with the fusebox cover off. In the end, I was convinced that the stated location was correct, and it looked like removing the headlight might give access. I dreaded that, but checking Youtube (well you do don't you) it appeared to be the simplest of jobs (very non-Ducato). Two hex bolts and remove the one wiring loom quick-connector and it slides out! Still took me some time to find the relay (it's secured to the wheelarch by a bolt that is hidden on the other side, and would require the wheel arch liner to be completely removed). With a bit of dexterity, and notes on how the relay locks to its socket, it was however possible to separate them and get access to the socket. That gave the ability to check resistance back through each glowplug by using a multimeter on the respective socket connections. 3 provided resistance readings roughly in spec, the 4th (no. 1 cylinder) was "open circuit" so either wiring issues, or most probably a failed glowplug. I was rather hoping for a relay issue, as it would still have been awkward, but within scope of my DIY skills. Replacing a glowplug is a fraught business at the best of times (when aged, they have a propensity to break on attempted removal), on a Ducato, the access to do it requires a significant amount of dismantling. So, it's booked into a Fiat Professional garage. Mucho diagnostic time will, of course, be charged and then the work itself (assuming my own diagnosis is correct) will also be costly. (I could look for an Indie to do it, but given the nature of the work I'd rather have it with someone I can claim from if it goes wrong). Following on from £800 of tyres, the cost is probably going to mean "Bread and Scrape" for Christmas Dinner in nEmotional Towers. (It could have been even more embarrassing if we had pulled the trigger on a new 'van. It's hardly in a state to p-ex at the moment, though it's quite happy to start immediately on 3 glowplugs at -3C). |
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New Tue 3 Dec 24 16:56
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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>> >> So, it's booked into a Fiat Professional garage. Mucho diagnostic time will, of course, be >> charged and then the work itself (assuming my own diagnosis is correct) will also be >> costly. (I could look for an Indie to do it, but given the nature of >> the work I'd rather have it with someone I can claim from if it goes >> wrong). >> I've said before I've not much use for any of the local Fiat Professional garages. The one I booked with above I've used before for minor work, and is really no better than the others, but they have more space and a good secure compound (It may well end up being a multi-day job, especially if the plug(s) break). The receptionist left a sour taste last time with a complete lack of customer facing skills, and a perception on both occasions of me talking directly to a cash register. This time - "6 year old vehicle - that age will mean a minimum of two hours diagnostic time, not one". At £140 p/h +Vat, that looks more like a "booking fee" than a diagnostic charge. Some more of the conversation went a similar way. Anyway I banked the appointment and went looking elsewhere. Whilst it took some time for them to respond, one of the reasonably close motorhome dealers got back to me. They are Fiat Professional qualified, patently equipped to handle motorhomes, and I know they have big workshop premises and secure storage. Labour rates are some 20% lower. Though it means a couple of weeks more to wait (The 'van wasn't intended for use Christmas/New Year anyway) I've switched allegiances. I've actually bought a 'van from them in the past, and am much happier using them (especially as they have a unit in at the moment having glow plug attention). The attitude of the Service Adviser couldn't have been more different. Knew what he was talking about and "We charge for diagnostics at £114 an hour, but try to keep it below that". Then it will be an estimate and a further wait for the work. The 'van is still driveable, (as long as it continues to start!) so we may get a few days away before Christmas anyway, but I now feel much more relaxed about where it's going. (Changing glow plugs on the Ducato is a big job that not all garages can do, and quite a few don't want!) |
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New Sat 30 Nov 24 21:59
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - Bill Payer
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>> Not quite as bad but I’ve had to correct main dealer Honda, VW and Suzuki >> dealers about what is in (and out) of the standard manufacture service schedule. Assuming of >> course the handbook and manufacturer’s webpages are correct. Have had various VW Group cars i the family over the years and they do change the work required over time / mileage from time to time. They have an internal software system which should produce the correct info but I've still been told the wrong thing by delaers and even by VW directly. Currently in the process of buying a Hyundai EV and dealer salesman told me service interval was 10K/ 1yr. Bit of an issue for us as the car will be doing 20K/yr. I know the interval is 20K/2yrs so queried this again. What bemuses me is there's no doubt in his mind he's correct so he won't even check. So I grabbed the service manager. She said the same thing! I gave up at that point and ordered the car through a broker. |
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New Sun 1 Dec 24 09:49
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - Zero
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Service intervals vary by country. BMW's for example halve the service intervals in the USA. Nothing to do with environment or climate, merely to pander to the yanks motoring folklore and are obsessed with 3k mile 'cheap lube jobs', taking their car to a "jiffy lube" where they often use nasty cheap oil, rarely change the filter, and sometimes get charged without even changing oil. Meanwhile everything else gets ignored and they end up driving with no brake disks, drop links, split CV joints. et etc |
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