Well after 43 years with a clean licence I got a NIP in the post yesterday.......
Apparently doing 57 in a 50 mph on the final approach to the tolls at the Dartford Tunnel Saturday lunchtime .....
........ It was a momentary distraction by my BiL pointing out that the toll was now £2 rather than £1.50 that SWMBO had prepared and as I asked if anyone had another 50p I spotted the 50 signs by which time it was too late....not an excuse but it still hit my pride in maintaining a clean licence for such a long time.
Hopefully I will be offered a speed awareness course and I would enjoy and learn from that rather than £100 fine and three points .
So I wondered .....What is the record for the longest held clean licence on here ?
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39yrs for me... either massive luck or as I tell Mrs F my eyesight,awareness and anticipation is top notch.
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47 years, fingers crossed.
I sympathise with you - I get very fed up with the sanctimonious d*ckheads who whine on about 'all you have to is keep within the limits'. All it may take is a perfectly explicable split second's inattention.
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49 years and counting. (I have been lucky with empty cameras tho)
Last edited by: madf on Thu 5 Dec 13 at 09:36
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I think I lasted 24 months before getting points for speeding. Pure luck as I thrashed every car I had within inches of its life in my first 10 years of driving. Golf Mk1 Gti, 205 Gti, RS2000. Amazing I never had any major shunts, especially in the Marina TC!
No points currently on my licence, but I'm pretty sure that situation will change sometime. Most probable at night, unmarked car lurking somewhere, just when I think the roads are deserted and I give it some beans.
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You'll get an eye opener if you do get offered the Speed Awareness course.
I got nipped in September and offered the SAC in October. I checked every county in England and Wales, the majority were booked up one month in advance with some in the SE booked up two months in advance.
There are around 5-8 centres / county running two or three courses / day over three, four or five days per week with around 20 to 25 people on each course at around £84 per person. Those numbers soon add up to £££££'s
Your 57 in a 50 would get you a fine of around 30€ in another European country, no points and no course.
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It is easy to get caught out in these "Countdown" sections. Typically, approaching the pay booths in the A14 toll. One slows from 70 to 20 but not at the required rate and ticket follows. I got one in germany years ago for not slowing at the required rate on an exit slip road.
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The AA run them around here.
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That's right RP, they go under the name of AA drivetech in England and Wales. If you live in the north of Scotland the nearest pace you can do the course is Berwick upon Tweed.
Last edited by: gmac on Thu 5 Dec 13 at 10:25
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I would suggest that if you have only had one speeding ticket in 43 years you are not going to learn much on a speed awareness course. Don't waste your time - pay the fine and forget about it.
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I got my one and only 'endorsement' (so far) in '65, £7 fine for speeding.
Had several FPNs.
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Passed my test in May 77 so 36yrs and 6 months with a clean license.
Been lucky at least once with a filmless camera though. Clocked the reduction from NSL to 40 joining the A428 from a lane but missed the almost immediate drop to 30 entering a village. Got the odd warning flash of blues on the M/way too, he turned them off and wagged his finger before going on his way.
I don't think 'copter would be wasting his time on a SAC. Mrs B cetainly learned a lot from hers.
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Clean license held for 21 years almost to the day.
Been NIPped once for a 34 in a 30 on a fixed camera, but took the course. Otherwise never been so much as pulled over.
I don't pay a great deal of attention to speed limits outside of towns and villages, so have clearly been lucky.
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15 points in total, and one ban.
Only nicked for speeding once tho. I tend to go for the more dramatic offences.
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In answer to CGN , a speed awareness course rather than points and a fine hopefully will mean that my insurance is not affected.......and may be I can learn something interesting.
The annoying thing is that I do have a plug in speed camera warning device for when I am travelling areas that I do not normally go to .... ....... but I took it out for a recent trip to France ( where they are illegal ) and forgot to put it back in the car .
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3 points alone won't affect your premium. Depends on what you call "interesting" I suppose but I doubt it
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>>15 points in total, and one ban.
Ruddy hooligan.
;>)
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I suspect H might learn a lot about some of the people we share the road with - I hope he will report back
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I suspect that those who do get offered the SAC are not generally going to be the sorts you see on Police Camera Action as the offer is only made to those who have not previously attended one or you have further offences being considered against you......
I am always happy to learn and if I do get the offer I will report back here ....
Last edited by: helicopter on Thu 5 Dec 13 at 11:41
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SFAIK, if you have done one Speed Awareness Course you cannot do another one within 3 years but the fact that they are done regionally without a central databasemeans one might get offered a 2nd one.
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>> SFAIK, if you have done one Speed Awareness Course you cannot do another one within
>> 3 years but the fact that they are done regionally without a central databasemeans one
>> might get offered a 2nd one.
>>
That was before most. if not all, the Police forces use AA drive tech now who administor and deliver the courses therefore it is now centralised.
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The PENTIP national database has been created for all forms of motoring offence disposal so the chances of getting two speed awareness courses have been drastically reduced,
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>> SFAIK, if you have done one Speed Awareness Course you cannot do another one within
>> 3 years but the fact that they are done regionally without a central databasemeans one
>> might get offered a 2nd one.
My lad gone done twice in 12 months, both by Thames Valley Police, and he got the speed awareness course both times....
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>> My lad gone done twice in 12 months
Sounds like you need to lend him the Lancer a bit more often, that'll put a stop to it.
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Yes but the fine goes with points and a licence endorsement, which some people may not want.
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49+ yrs driving and still clean, fingers crossed.
Cannot afford to be caught as I disapproved of 1 x son picking up 7 points in as many months. The last one was a court appearance - he described as chilliing.....4 points & £300 fine for speeding. He is a lot more cautious driver now - it's amazing what a seat in a police car/court appearance can do!
ANOther D-i-L has the same court, for the same offence on Jan 7th - first offender.
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One speeding offence in 51 years of driving - 46 mph in a 40 limit. No speed course offered. Pretty certain I've been flashed by (presumably empty) cameras at least twice. Once warned by police for speeding when I was 19 - long before the days of radar speed cameras.
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47 years.
A technical point occured to me the other day, as I passed one of those signs that flash your speed in green if below the limit and red if above.
As my speed flashed up (37 mph Green) a car came past in the opposite direction. Momentarily my "speed" flashed 60-something.
Presumably the device had captured a momentary image of the other car reflected in my windscreen, hence adding our speeds together?
Is that how a speed camera works?
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>> Presumably the device had captured a momentary image of the other car reflected in my
>> windscreen, hence adding our speeds together?
>> Is that how a speed camera works?
No
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>> No
>>
Would you care to explain then what was going on? How did a car coming in the opposite direction manage to double the speed displayed on the indicator on my side of the road?
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>> >>
>> >> No
>> >>
>>
>> Would you care to explain then what was going on? How did a car coming
>> in the opposite direction manage to double the speed displayed on the indicator on my
>> side of the road?
Thats not what you asked, you asked if the indicator works in the same way as a speed camera, and the answer is no.
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>> Thats not what you asked, you asked if the indicator works in the same way
>> as a speed camera, and the answer is no.
>>
I asked whether the effect I observed with a speed indicator board, ie of getting a spurious result from a passing car, would work in a similarly misleading way with a speed camera.
So if you need it spelled out, there are two questions:
1) What caused the speed indicator board to respond to a car coming in the opposite direction? Was it, perhaps, a reflected signal from my own car?
2) Can the same effect, or similar, happen with a speed camera?
There are supplementary questions, depending on the answers to the above;
3) If the mechanism is different, in what way?
4) if the same effect can happen, what are the implications for innacurate bookings by speed cameras?
5) If this effect is impossible with a speed camera, how has it been achieved?
Any other information you would care to impart, apart from the enormously illuminating "No", would be gratefully received. You appear to be an expert in these matters, as in everything, so naturally I turn to you.
:)
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>> I asked whether the effect I observed with a speed indicator board, ie of getting
>> a spurious result from a passing car, would work in a similarly misleading way with
>> a speed camera.
No you didn't, you never asked any of that,
you asked a classic example of a closed question, so you got a closed answer.
>> So if you need it spelled out, there are two questions:
I don't need it spelled out, you need to ask the right questions in the right way.
>> 1) What caused the speed indicator board to respond to a car coming in the
>> opposite direction? Was it, perhaps, a reflected signal from my own car?
Possibly or a cumulative effect of general movement
>> 2) Can the same effect, or similar, happen with a speed camera?
Another closed question - Closed answer - No.
>> There are supplementary questions, depending on the answers to the above;
>>
>> 3) If the mechanism is different, in what way?
The Christmas tree sign is not radar, its Infra red. So it has no doppler shift sensing, no discrimination circuits and its not calibrated.
>> 4) if the same effect can happen, what are the implications for innacurate bookings by
>> speed cameras?
It can't - see 3 above. Plus a speed camera takes two photos so there is a time difference between the too as corroboration.
>> 5) If this effect is impossible with a speed camera, how has it been achieved?
See 3 above.
>> Any other information you would care to impart, apart from the enormously illuminating "No", would
>> be gratefully received.
See 3 above.
>> You appear to be an expert in these matters,
Me I know nothing, but thats a barrel load more than you in this matter it seems.
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>> :)
;p
>>
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>> The Christmas tree sign is not radar, its Infra red. So it has no doppler
>> shift sensing, no discrimination circuits and its not calibrated.
>>
Thank you very much indeed, Prime Minister.
If you ever did visit my constituency of Great Wittering, I am sure the residents would be greatly relieved to learn that speed camera readings are accurate, and cannot be influenced by the movement of other vehicles.
Phew - we got there!
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I must have led a charmed life because I've only been pulled for speeding once in 50 years or more, by a traffic car on the M40. The old bill were very nice and kindly clocked me at only 88mph. The fine was affordable and the points were only 3.
I've had points once or twice for other naughty things like running red lights, but nothing serious. And these days I am usually somewhere around the speed limit if not below it...
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Probably 51 yrs with a clean license if my moped days started at 16. Been stopped a few times but always blagged my way out of it in the past. Mostly with a big trailer on the motorway which was rated for 70 mph at the time. The Feds didn't know the laws but I had a letter from the head honcho of , I think , Lincolnshire road patrol explaining it all. He just happened to be my sergeant on the Manchester motor patrol some years before. In fact, he turned up at our wedding in 1969 in a force Jag 2.4 and put the sirens on outside the church when we were coming out.
My only fines were for parking.....one was £2 and the other couple were not too long ago.. Oh, and a sneaky bus lane one as well.
Ted
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>> Well after 43 years with a clean licence I got a NIP in the post
>> yesterday.......
>> Apparently doing 57 in a 50 mph on the final approach to the tolls at
>> the Dartford Tunnel Saturday lunchtime .....
I am just amazed that the traffic was moving at that speed on a Saturday lunchtime, normally you are lucky to get out of first gear if you are moving at all that is !
Last edited by: Skip on Thu 5 Dec 13 at 18:29
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£40 and 3 points in 1990, £210 and 5 points in 2005 - both SP30s.
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>> >> Apparently doing 57 in a 50 mph on the final approach to the tolls
>> at
>> >> the Dartford Tunnel Saturday lunchtime .....
>>
>> I am just amazed that the traffic was moving at that speed on a Saturday
>> lunchtime, normally you are lucky to get out of first gear if you are moving
>> at all that is !
>>
You beat me to it, Skip!
I must make about 8 trips a week across the Dartford Crossing at various times and never seem to make it out of second in the 50 mph average speed zone....
You must have completely missed the signs, helicopter, as the 50 section is average speed cameras so you must have been going well to average 57!
Just shows though that the most careful of us can get caught through a momentary lapse; they haven't got me, yet, after 39 years but I'm sure there's one out there with my name on it somewhere.......
Last edited by: Cockle on Thu 5 Dec 13 at 20:33
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A mere 25 years for me - which may be why I've had mine out (missus) recently enough to know how to spell 'licence'. }:---)
There have certainly been times - one I remember in Bracknell, another leaving the M25 for the M40 - when I've thought, whoops, should have been ready for that, but so far, no envelope. I suspect the nerdy pub quizzer in me would quite enjoy an SAC but I hope he has a bit longer to wait.
Bad luck, Copter.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Thu 5 Dec 13 at 20:52
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I think I once managed an 18 year gap in my 33 years of driving.
Last one was in 2005, so I'm 8 years into a new stretch.
If I got another so be it although luckily I'm fairly aware, but I don't want to tempt fate.
Where does FC work?
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Can I offer the 'opposite' record ?
I managed to pick up the equivalent of a NIP in Victoria 2 days before my Victorian licence was even issued. Luckily there is an appeal process for 'first offences' if you're less than 10KMH (6MPH) over the limit and my 25+ year clean UK licence was deemed sufficient to allow me a warning.
My circumstances were similar to the OP, coming from a 100KMH into a 60KMH limit I was distracted and still doing 67KMH, the 'sneeze factor' here is 3KMH at any speed, that's less than 2MPH over the limit even at the equivalent of the UK 70MPH (110 or 120KMH) limit. It's all about revenues really as many other forms of bad driving seem to go completely unpunished.
Separately (and I think I can support this), Police don't have to have a reason to stop and breathalyze motorists, therefore (at this time of year and often after a bank holiday) there are police checks at the side of the road and you are 'waved in' randomly to be checked for alcohol and drug intoxication.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Thu 5 Dec 13 at 22:34
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>> Police don't have to have a reason to stop and breathalyze motorists,
I was once stopped because the BIB said : You were the only one going slow enough I dared step out in front of.
I was schlepping it out of the crypton tune-up centre, who were diagnosing an intermittent misfire at 4k and above (Triumph Vitesse - dodgy condenser).
It turned out he and I stood side by side, throwing up, into a ditch after dealing with a particularly nasty RTA a few days previous.
He never booked me.
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I got pulled over one night on the way home. The bobby said ' I want you to blow into this bag, sir '.
I told him I hadn't been drinking.
He said ' I know, sir. It's me chips...they're too hot '.
I'll get me nighty on...nite all.
Ted
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A thought occured to me the other week. It came to me in quite a rush actually. I was on a stretch of the M6 which now has variable speed limits monitored by gantry cameras.
Anyway, they were set to 70/NSL and I was at a velocity near enough not to be concerned. However, just as I was about to pass under one of the camera gantries the limit changed to 40mph. I simply couldn't have got the car down to 40mph before passing under the camera, or even close to without emergency braking and potentially contributing to/causing an accident in the process.
I didn't see a flash and it's long enough ago that I'm pretty sure I'll not hear anything but I wonder how long it is between the limit being altered and the camera being re-set. Surely they must have thought of that.
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>> not hear anything but I wonder how long it is between the limit being altered
>> and the camera being re-set. Surely they must have thought of that.
They have, there is a gap between speed change and enforcement camera activation. Don't ask me specific details of the gap tho
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48 years SO FAR!
A couple of years back though I did get a letter from Wiltshire police suggesting I shouldn't go at 26 through the 20 limit in Tollard Royal. Citizens/busy-bodies hiding behind a building with a radar gun clocked me going downhill. Was threatened that if it happened again I'd be logged as a "persistent" offender, although they never asked who was driving at the time... Haven't been back there since.
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Seeding cost me £5 in 1970. Okay since then....
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>> Seeding cost me £5 in 1970. Okay since then....
Grass still growing well, then? :-)
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You don't usually get an NIP for grass
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Well I got the Speed Awareness Option and have booked a course next month.... it costs £85 but better than points and £100 fine.
I will update with my views on the course when I have been on it...
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It would be fairly cool to arrange to arrive there in a helicopter if you can organise that !
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Just don't be late.
The start proper of the one I was on was held up for about five minutes to give any late arrivals a bit of grace. Two more came in that time, but a woman arriving ten minutes later was not admitted and I got the impression she would lose the fee, and cop the points and the fine.
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Well I did the Speed Awareness Course yesterday and was quietly impressed with the instructors and the course.....and I enjoyed it.
20 'naughty' people on the course including a lady I used to work with , we were all treated as adults , registered , given tea / coffee and biscuits.
What impressed me was that we were not talked down to and ended up enjoying a good repartee with the ex Copper who did two of the three sessions whilst being educated in some facts about the effects of speeding and our attitudes to speed by a pleasant lady who challenged us as to our attitudes in certain driving situations such as being tailgated. The most common phrase they used was 'does that make sense?' to which we all had to say 'Yes'.
What did nark me was that he did say that normally the allowance before they sent a NIP was the speed limit plus 10% plus 1 so in a 50 mph limit , over 56mph and I was travelling at 57 mph.
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>> What did nark me was that he did say that normally the allowance before they
>> sent a NIP was the speed limit plus 10% plus 1 so in a 50
>> mph limit , over 56mph and I was travelling at 57 mph.
What's to be narked about? They give you a 10%+ margin for error and you just cross it. Surely you cannot expect another margin on top???
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>> I was travelling at 57 mph.
So your speedo was probably reading 60 mph then?
That in itself should have given you a clue that you were speeding.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 7 Feb 14 at 12:43
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>> What did nark me was that he did say that normally the allowance before they
>> sent a NIP was the speed limit plus 10% plus 1 so in a 50
>> mph limit , over 56mph and I was travelling at 57 mph.
Oh, that. i thought it was 10% +2. I ave been driving through the 50mph roadworks specs cameras at 57mPH (true as per sat nav)
Now I know those cameras don't work.
edited - you know why
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 7 Feb 14 at 13:59
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This information is publicly available, google ACPO Guidelines.
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>> This information is publicly available, google ACPO Guidelines.
And has been discussed many times both here and in the other place.
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Nipped....... - Fenlander
