Motoring Discussion > New car ordered...	Buying / Selling
Thread Author: Fursty Ferret	Replies: 87

New Mon 19 Nov 12 11:55   New car ordered... - Fursty Ferret

Bit the bullet and ordered the new car today - Vauxhall Insignia Elite Nav hatchback with the 160 ecoflex diesel engine in "waterworld" blue with beige leather. All the toys (Flexride, adaptive lighting, DAB, poncy sound system, adaptive cruise control, forward camera etc), and Vauxhall knocked a further £1000 off and include a £500 pre-paid credit card to spend on fuel. List price £31,870... I paid £26,150, which is on their five year 0% finance deal with no deposit. Since my pay tracks inflation, I'll actually pay a bit less in real terms over the five years. Will be delivered in February (annoyingly just before the 13 plate comes out) but you can't win everything. The sales-dude agreed to put mine at the bottom of the list for ordering so I get it as late in February as possible. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 19 Nov 12 12:41   New car ordered... - Alanovich

Congrats. Hope you enjoy it. So £436 per month for 5 years? I hadn't spotted the 0%, zero deposit offer before. That, and the fact you can get a proper factory fit DAB radio, might actually incline me to consider a Vauxhall for the first time ever, were I in the market for brand new. Stonking. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 19 Nov 12 13:06   New car ordered... - Focusless

Something like this FF? www.honestjohn.co.uk/specs/detail/?v=MVAXDINS0079 0-60 in 8.9s with 53mpg urban - impressive. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 19 Nov 12 13:10   New car ordered... - -

Sounds good, hope you enjoy. Lifetime warranty?...if so whats the likely dealer servicing costs over time and did they offer a package? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 19 Nov 12 13:50   New car ordered... - Clk Sec

Nice looking car, FF. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 19 Nov 12 14:09   New car ordered... - Lygonos

www.new-car-discount.com/car/vauxhall/insignia-diesel-hatchback/hatchback/diesel/manual/2.0-cdti-elite-nav-160-5dr/09/ £23,400 cash sale with most toys (maybe missed a few) - not sure what 5yrs 0% is worth though - presumably brings it to around what OP paid. Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 19 Nov 12 at 14:13 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 19 Nov 12 14:20   New car ordered... - Falkirk Bairn

tinyurl.com/c4q8esh £21,000 less £300..............not sure about the toys etc but still haggling to consider getting it below £20K Looks a nice car. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 19 Nov 12 21:57   New car ordered... - Fursty Ferret

>> www.new-car-discount.com/car/vauxhall/insignia-diesel-hatchback/hatchback/diesel/manual/2.0-cdti-elite-nav-160-5dr/09/ >> >> £23,400 cash sale with most toys (maybe missed a few) - not sure what 5yrs >> 0% is worth though - presumably brings it to around what OP paid. >> Link above with the options I have comes to £27,256. Add the 0% finance and £500 free fuel and it's actually better to order from a local Vaux dealer. Vauxhall servicing prices surprisingly competitive. They offered three years for £500, but didn't want to commit to a particular dealer. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 19 Nov 12 22:21   New car ordered... - rtj70

I hope you enjoy the car Mr Ferret ;-) I have this on here before. I had a low spec Insignia with a low powered petrol engine as a hire car and it was okay but I didn't like it. Last year I had an Insignia SRi Nav with the 160CDTi engine for a week or so and I enjoyed driving it. Did a drive back on the A roads from South Wales to the NW and it had plenty of torque/power. Rode well on 18" wheels. And I see you've gone for adaptive lighting (I chose that after testing on my current car) - a good option which I'd rank as a safety item. I also have adaptive suspension and tend to leave it in sport - comfy despite 18" wheels. The Insignia SRi Nav had normal suspension - firm but more than acceptable for comforty.... the Golf GTi MkIV I had in 1999 had only 16" wheels and was too hard. In some ways I was lucky it was stolen! Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 00:05   New car ordered... - Jacks

Cargiant have loads of 1 year old 2.0 diesel Insignia's (11 reg) for 10 grand-ish - thats a lot of depreciation coming your way. 3 year old Diesel Insignia's are being offered for sale at £5 -6K retail on Autotrader but probably making less on actual sale. Is yours a company buy FF ? J Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 00:32   New car ordered... - rtj70

Maybe he's factored in the depreciation and wants all the benefits from a new car with life time warranty. Who knows. If he knows your on his flight when he's flying I hope he makes you feel unwelcome too. I am sure he can live with the depreciation. Thanks for your negative comments ;-) Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 20 Nov 12 at 00:33 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 01:06   New car ordered... - VxFan

>> Maybe he's factored in the depreciation and wants all the benefits from a new car >> with life time warranty. I see Vauxhall don't offer the lifetime warranty on 2nd hand cars up to 1 yr old anymore. That's a pity as I usually go for cars up to one year old so that someone else has suffered some of the initial depreciation costs. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 07:25   New car ordered... - WillDeBeest

It would be interesting to hear what it is that you particularly like about the car. You've evidently done the sums on the finances, and there's a lot to be said for not paying interest (and for salaries that keep up with inflation, but that's another thread) but Sir Humphrey would undoubtedly describe this as 'a courageous decision, Minister', so there must be something pretty special about the Insignia to swing you that way. Given that you won't have a new-issue plate, I'm not sure what you gain by delaying delivery till late February. Wouldn't it be better to get it early and have the use of it for longer? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 09:11   New car ordered... - Zero

Its a nice looking car loaded with toys, but no way would I lash out over 25 grand for one. Its just not special enough at that money. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 09:18   New car ordered... - Focusless

Can you get a new 'special' car (of that size) for £25k, or would you go used? Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 20 Nov 12 at 09:18 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 09:31   New car ordered... - Zero

I would go used. That price point is a strange one for new cars, its a tad too low for new "special" cars and too high for "ordinary cars" This one for example. www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201233481779418 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 09:41   New car ordered... - henry k

>>This one for example. www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201233481779418 I like it but the first task would be to get rid of the Jaguar locking wheel nuts. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 17:40   New car ordered... - madf

>> >>This one for example. >> >> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201233481779418 >> >> I like it but the first task would be to get rid of the Jaguar >> locking wheel nuts. >> They are still using plywood veneers? Looks like it :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 19:03   New car ordered... - mikeyb

>> I would go used. That price point is a strange one for new cars, its >> a tad too low for new "special" cars and too high for "ordinary cars" >> >> This one for example. >> >> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201233481779418 >> Yep, that would see 25K of my money long before an Insignia. I've had loads as hire cars, and although they are competent I've never been sad to hand one back Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 19:46   New car ordered... - rtj70

The lower spec Insginia I had didn't drive that well and was not well spec'd and I didn't like it. The 160PS CDTi in SRi trim was rather good. A few things I didn't like but I could have lived with that car easily. But then I am happy with a Passat CC. It does not have stunning interior like an Audi... but the more boring interior it has is easier to live with IMO. The all black Audi reminds me of the controls on that space ship in hitch hikers. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 09:31   New car ordered... - WillDeBeest

My Volvo dealer wrote to offer me a new V60 D2 for £23,845, which is £6,000 off list. No 0% finance offer, but nor would I be spending five years with a car worth less than the amount outstanding on the loan. RTJ jumped on Jacks for being 'negative', but if we're sharing honest views here, I'd have to feel I was getting something pretty special to buy a rental fleet car without a rental fleet discount. That's what I'd like to hear from Fursty - he evidently feels this car is worth it. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 10:34   New car ordered... - Jacks

>> >> RTJ jumped on Jacks for being 'negative', but if we're sharing honest views here, I'd >> have to feel I was getting something pretty special to buy a rental fleet car >> without a rental fleet discount. That's what I'd like to hear from Fursty - he >> evidently feels this car is worth it. >> That was my point - I like the Insignia but the vast number of daily rentals & fleet cars mean that it will lose value quicker than any of the others listed by FF, except possibly the Citroen. That said car ownership is about enjoyment (and personal choice) as well as cost, but for me I'd go for a year old model and drive the car I wanted at half the money. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 10:15   New car ordered... - Fursty Ferret

>> Its a nice looking car loaded with toys, but no way would I lash out >> over 25 grand for one. Its just not special enough at that money. >> That's the million pound question though - what is? I test drove the Ford Mondeo, Audi A5, Citroen C5 and DS5, Honda Accord, Skoda Superb, VW CC, Seat Leon, and the Kia Optimia. I tried to test drive a Jag but wasn't allowed to by the dealer*; don't want another BMW, and can't bear to be inside a Merc (I dunno whether it's the smell, the bland design, or the fact that anything clever is a "something-tronic".) So, to synopsisize you: The Ford: I don't understand why people rave about the Mondeo. I thought it was fairly cheaply made, the gearbox was terrible, and you didn't get much for your money. Interestingly, the only diesels I see belching smoke nowadays are three year old Mondeos, which doesn't inspire confidence. The Audi: A5 is a very nice car, brother had one and drove it all over Europe. Liked the little colour screen on the dash and the power from the twin-turbo diesel. Didn't like the dated sat nav and ride quality. Considered A4, not a cheap car, didn't want to be tarnished as an Audi driver. Citroen C5 and DS5: Both nice cars - just not what they could be. The DS5 had some really innovative features (HUD etc) and some mind-bogglingly stupid decisions. Which to be fair, is very Citroen. Fuel economy was pretty shocking on a longer run. The C5 is a cracking car, let down by a terrible automatic gearbox. Ride is superb, lots of toys, comfortable seats, decent prices - but, that gearbox! When pulling away it's a bit like using the telegraph on a cruise liner's bridge to signal to the engine room for "SLOW AHEAD". Any slow maneuvers are actually performed in a series of abrupt lurches and moments of panic as the car rockets unexpectedly towards walls, other cars, pedestrians, lamp posts etc. The Honda: Can't put my finger on it, was just boring. And expensive. Skoda Superb: My dad has one of these which gave me the opportunity to get some fairly long drives in it. Nice car, excellent DSG gearbox, and good fuel economy. He's had it chipped to 205bhp. Crap sat nav. No DAB. It's almost as much as a Passat but has two-year-old technology fished out of the VAG parts bin. Close contender. Passat CC (or just the CC as it's called now): Very nice car. Brother has one (again, so extended test drive, albeit in the Czech Republic). Can't fault it really. Tiny bit boring inside, otherwise, an excellent car. However, to load it up with the same spec as the Insignia would have taken the asking price to over £35k. Seat Leon: It's like a Golf, but with the same comments as for the Skoda. There's a new one coming out next year but the local dealer was so useless I gave up. And it's made in Spain. The Kia: Now, this was a toughie. It's a really nice car. I'm not brand snobbish (as you'll no doubt have guessed from the Vauxhall) but it's hamstrung by the dinky little 1.7 diesel under the bonnet. It takes an age to get to 60 and you have to change down to overtake on the motorway. Which brings us back to the Insignia. I think they're great looking cars; it's loaded with technology (I only do my job because I like pushing buttons), fuel economy is great (it even shows you a graph of how you're doing - secretly, I'm James May), the "lifetime" warranty is tempting and it's actually quite inspiring to drive. At the same time, it can plod safely home up the motorway in comfort while I drift off to Radio 4. The dealer was friendly and let me take it for an unaccompanied test drive. I handed my BMW to their service department to MOT, which was quick, efficient, and cost £35. It's hard to describe. A lot of thought has gone into the Insignia - it's nothing like the Vectra of old. Even the fonts on the dashboard are nice. I wish it had keyless entry and the rear visibility is crap, but these are niggles. Oh, and it's made in the UK. * I've just emailed a copy of the invoice for the Insignia to Jaguar Land-Rover's head office. Though now they're shifting productions to China I wouldn't buy one anyway. Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Tue 20 Nov 12 at 10:17 Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Tue 20 Nov 12 10:20   New car ordered... - Zero

>> Oh, and it's made in the UK. Is it? where? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 10:23   New car ordered... - Fursty Ferret

>> >> >> Oh, and it's made in the UK. >> >> Is it? where? >> OK, maybe not. But it's basically a big Astra and that's built in Ellesmere Port. Remind me to go back and kick the salesman. Yeah, it's probably going to be worth less than I owe on it but equally my car costs for the next few years are now set (more or less) in stone. My insurance costs have plateaued, fuel cost is offset by the fact I can drive slower; the servicing is cheap, and if anything goes wrong it's covered. And it's £30 a year to tax. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 10:26   New car ordered... - Zero

Nice summary FF, Now, about that second hand jag........ Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 10:24   New car ordered... - Focusless

>> * I've just emailed a copy of the invoice for the Insignia to Jaguar Land-Rover's head office. Could have added a link to this :) www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQQK0VTTXvA Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 20 Nov 12 at 10:24 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 10:53   New car ordered... - John H

>> Though now they're shifting productions to China I wouldn't buy one anyway. >> Don't follow your logic at all. That would limit you to buying from a company that manufactures solely in the UK. "shifting production", as you describe it, does not equate to closing UK factories: "Manufacturing in China allows JLR to avoid significant import taxes, making its products even more attractive to a country that is now the largest car-buying market in the world. Sales of JLR models in China have risen by 80 per cent this year alone. The factory would also allow JLR to build cars designed specifically for the Chinese market, where the emphasis is on being driven, rather than driving yourself. JLR emphasised that cars produced in China would be in addition to existing output from the UK, and that there were no plans to move its manufacturing base out of Britain." Last edited by: John H on Tue 20 Nov 12 at 10:54 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 11:23   New car ordered... - Fursty Ferret

>> JLR emphasised that cars produced in China would be in addition to existing output from >> the UK, and that there were no plans to move its manufacturing base out of >> Britain." >> >> John - I'll buy from a company that manufactures outside of the UK, but not in China. It's a country with an oppressive, backwards and aggressive regime that controls through fear. Everything in China is geared towards economic output (ironic given it's still technically a Communist country), with IP laws and copyright falling at the side. You only have to look at eBay to see the amount of crap spewing out of China, where they've illegally taken reference designs for electronics, implemented them badly, and are selling them in bulk. Are they paying import duties? I think not. Give me one example of high quality original design from China, and you won't find anything newer than a sixth dynasty Ming vase. Or take a look at software - no original software comes from China, and the mobile app stores (just to give one example) are littered with hundreds of identical, crap, apps which are based on example source code. At the moment China, while big, lags behind the Western world (and Korea and Japan) because they're incapable of innovating. The moment that happens, we're toast. I think we'll always disagree on this but it would be interesting to consider the situation 5 years from now. China is JLR's biggest market and at some point it's going to be more cost-effective for them to produce the RHD variant in small numbers in their Chinese factories. How about the hypocrisy of a country that relies entirely on exports imposing massive import taxes and penalties? The human rights abuses? Tibet? The fact that baby girls are routinely abandoned or aborted - legally, willingly, or by the state all factoring? No, sorry, I want nothing to do with China. I accept that some components in items I own are made there - which is fine - but I will not buy from a company that manufactures in China. My laptop, phone, kitchen appliances, clothes, furniture and most other belongings are manufactured elsewhere. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 20 Nov 12 11:34   New car ordered... - Zero

Oh dear, Best be sending that GM car back then www.thereporter.com/business/ci_22031869/gm-opens-new-plant-chinese-budget-brand-baojun Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 11:40   New car ordered... - Fursty Ferret

>> >> Oh dear, >> >> Best be sending that GM car back then >> >> www.thereporter.com/business/ci_22031869/gm-opens-new-plant-chinese-budget-brand-baojun >> I reject your reality and substitute my own. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 11:47   New car ordered... - John H

>> I reject your reality and substitute my own. >> = blinkers on. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 20 Nov 12 12:16   New car ordered... - No FM2R

>>I reject your reality and substitute my own. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 11:44   New car ordered... - John H

>> No, sorry, I want nothing to do with China. I accept that some components in >> items I own are made there - which is fine - but I will not >> buy from a company that manufactures in China. My laptop, phone, kitchen appliances, clothes, furniture >> and most other belongings are manufactured elsewhere. >> You are kidding yourself. Dream on. Absolutely no way you can achieve your lofty ideals if you live the life you live. Even the planes you fly to earn your decent wage will have bits made by Chinese labour with indecent wages, or in one way or another even your employer will be funded by Chinese Yen. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 11:59   New car ordered... - Fursty Ferret

>> >> >> No, sorry, I want nothing to do with China. I accept that some components >> in >> >> items I own are made there - which is fine - but I will >> not >> >> buy from a company that manufactures in China. My laptop, phone, kitchen appliances, clothes, >> furniture >> >> and most other belongings are manufactured elsewhere. >> >> >> >> You are kidding yourself. Dream on. >> >> Absolutely no way you can achieve your lofty ideals if you live the life you >> live. >> Can't influence my employer's decisions regarding China - or the fact that Chinese money pays my salary - but it doesn't mean I can't try. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 20 Nov 12 12:06   New car ordered... - John H

>>> Can't influence my employer's decisions regarding China - or the fact that Chinese money pays >> my salary - but it doesn't mean I can't try. >> Ignore my posts. Otherwise the placebo effect will stop working for you. ;-) Last edited by: John H on Tue 20 Nov 12 at 12:06 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 21 Nov 12 06:32   New car ordered... - idle_chatterer

I wasn't going to comment but then I saw the OP's opinion of China, I have to ask whether the OP has ever been to China and/or had dealings with the Chinese ? The west has benefited from 15 years of price deflation in real terms, it has gorged itself on cheap credit and satiated its wants rather than addressed its needs. Now it has a debt problem and still people think that buying a car on the 'never never' which will likely be worth less than the money that is still owed to the finance company in 3 or 5 years time is a good idea...... Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 21 Nov 12 10:41   New car ordered... - John H

>> I wasn't going to comment but then I saw the OP's opinion of China, ..... >> .... to the finance company in 3 or 5 years time is a good idea...... >> There is no logic or rational thinking behind it, even ignoring the fact that Britain's lifestyle and deficit are financed by the oh so ethical Chinese, Indians, Saudis and Russians (where does the OP think his mortgage and car finance funds come from?). It just gives the OP a warm feeling; to not buy a car made in the UK simply because the company has decided to build a factory in China, but happily buy a car made abroad from a company which also has links with China. It would be interesting to know what these brand these products are that the OP mentions "My laptop, phone, kitchen appliances, clothes, furniture and most other belongings are manufactured elsewhere" but that is deserves another thread. As I said, best to let the OP continue to live under the illusion of his "placebo" beliefs and his substituted idea of reality. Reply to this message | Report message       2

New Wed 21 Nov 12 12:09   New car ordered... - DP

Worrying about the rise of China is like worrying about the tide coming in. Nothing you can do can influence it in the slightest, so focus your energies elsewhere. Nobody complains at the unbelievably cheap consumer goods, or the ready Chinese cash that finances our ever spiralling national debt. But they do complain about the lack of regard for environmental and human rights factors among other things, that make it all possible. Hypocrisy is a terrible thing. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 21 Nov 12 16:34   New car ordered... - Fursty Ferret

>> >> As I said, best to let the OP continue to live under the illusion of >> his "placebo" beliefs and his substituted idea of reality. >> >> Your point is that Chinese (and other disreputable countries) influence is unavoidable in life. I think that's obvious. But in some way it can be minimised. My current account and mortgage is with a so-called "ethical" bank. My phone, laptop, and television were manufactured in South Korea and Japan. Kitchen appliances in the UK and Italy. Furniture in the UK. Clothes - mixture, to be honest, some pariah states. I'm aware of the hypocrisy but don't care that much. Is it a placebo effect? Possibly. This clearly bothers you, as is evident from the passive-aggressive writing. Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Wed 21 Nov 12 17:00   New car ordered... - R.P.

No need to be quite as aggressive John, think of this place as a pub and what would happen if one was in a pub ! Keep it civilized please. Reply to this message | Report message       4

New Wed 21 Nov 12 16:38   New car ordered... - Fursty Ferret

>> I wasn't going to comment but then I saw the OP's opinion of China, I >> have to ask whether the OP has ever been to China and/or had dealings with >> the Chinese ? >> >> The west has benefited from 15 years of price deflation in real terms, it has >> gorged itself on cheap credit and satiated its wants rather than addressed its needs. Now >> it has a debt problem and still people think that buying a car on the >> 'never never' which will likely be worth less than the money that is still owed >> to the finance company in 3 or 5 years time is a good idea...... >> Slight correction here - I can afford to buy the car outright but save money using the 0% finance due to spiralling inflation. Instead the cash sits in a savings account and makes me money. Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 21 Nov 12 18:52   New car ordered... - Lygonos

>> Instead the cash sits in a savings account and makes me money. Unless your savings are beating inflation (after tax) you're better off paying the car off up front. not true ;-) Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 21 Nov 12 at 18:53 Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 22 Nov 12 02:19   New car ordered... - idle_chatterer

>> >> Slight correction here - I can afford to buy the car outright but save money >> using the 0% finance due to spiralling inflation. Instead the cash sits in a savings >> account and makes me money. >> OK, understood, so why the ire against China ? It has 1.4B people, most of whom are only slowly climbing out of abject poverty. Arguably China also has a democratic constitution, it has a huge logistical challenge (irrespective of the governing party) in governing over distances and massive population centres which I'd contend most Europeans cannot conceive. I am not an apologist for the regime and I-too went to live in the region carrying many of the same views as are asserted above. However experience with the people and their culture has left me feeling that it is rather more complicated than the picture you paint. IMHO, the real question is what does the UK do next, manufacturing has been lost, financial services won't plug the gap and the world's monetary wealth has (slightly) re-balanced. Your choice of car / laptop / phone isn't going to help unless you're prepared to pay more for it to be UK designed/manufactured so that UK firms can invest in innovation. As I understand it a Vauxhall Insignia won't be built in the UK and the profits will be appropriated in the US ? Furthermore - the price paid is comparable with a car manufactured (and possibly designed) in the UK which would likely hold its value much better even if the profits were still appropriated abroad (in India, Japan or the US) ? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 11:52   New car ordered... - WillDeBeest

Thanks, Fursty - that covers it pretty comprehensively. I hope you enjoy it. No further questions, m'Lud. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 14:32   New car ordered... - Alanovich

>> Citroen C5 and DS5: >> >> Both nice cars - just not what they could be. The DS5 had some really >> innovative features (HUD etc) and some mind-bogglingly stupid decisions. Which to be fair, is very >> Citroen. Could you elaborate on the DS5, the bits you didn't like particularly? I'm penciling it onto the list of possible Galaxy replacements, if I wait another few years. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 10:17   New car ordered... - VxFan

>> Will be delivered in February (annoyingly just before the 13 plate comes out) Someone with a crystal ball has forecast sales of 13 plate cars will be low because of it being unlucky 13, and also they will be harder to pass on 2nd hand (unless you give them away) for the same reason. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 10:38   New car ordered... - Haywain

Only last week, a friend was showing me his ex-demonstrator VW CC which, I think, could be described as 'fully-loaded'. A very nice car - it cost him just south of £20k. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 10:59   New car ordered... - Boxsterboy

>> Someone with a crystal ball has forecast sales of 13 plate cars will be low >> because of it being unlucky 13, and also they will be harder to pass on >> 2nd hand (unless you give them away) for the same reason. >> I think that was me? Turning to the C5 auto-box, FF, I presume that was the nasty EGS, rather than the proper torque-converter they do with the bigger diesels? I read somewhere that PSA engineers tried to stop the EGS box being introduced, but were over-ruled by the marketing guys (again!). Yes, it's a cheap auto, but it is also not a very nice auto! Apparently a better 8-speed auto is on the way from PSA, although who knows what will actually happen now they are getting into bed with GM? The biggest regret I have with the C5 is that they are slowly phasing out the hydro-pneumatic suspension. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 11:53   New car ordered... - Runfer D'Hills

Congratulations on the new car FF. Were you getting too many approaches of a sexual nature from female cabin crew or something? The Insignia will at least serve to deter all but the most determined of them I suppose. You could look upon it as a non-invasive contraceptive I guess...Only kidding, I'm sure it'll be er, um, nice... :-) Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 20 Nov 12 12:03   New car ordered... - Fursty Ferret

>> Congratulations on the new car FF. Were you getting too many approaches of a sexual >> nature from female cabin crew or something? The Insignia will at least serve to deter >> all but the most determined of them I suppose. You could look upon it as >> a non-invasive contraceptive I guess...Only kidding, I'm sure it'll be er, um, nice... >> >> :-) >> Most of them earn more than me, so it's either an Aston Martin or nothing. Besides, my experience of women and cars is that as long as it's clean they don't give a toss who made it. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 14:02   New car ordered... - R.P.

I think I was behind an Insignia in that colour today - looked pretty shaerp to me. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 14:12   New car ordered... - Runfer D'Hills

Photocopier rep's regular day in Anglesey then? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 14:51   New car ordered... - Clk Sec

Better or worse that the 'tweedy' Passat, Humph? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 15:40   New car ordered... - Runfer D'Hills

Both perfectly good ( yawn ) cars of course...zzzzzzzz I mean, twenty odd grandulacs for a Cavalier ! :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 14:03   New car ordered... - Dog

>> my experience of women and cars is that as long as it's clean they don't give a toss who made it<< So I heard, from an Iberia pilot when I lived in Tenerife!! Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 14:04   New car ordered... - DP

Nice car, FF, and a great finance offer. Hope you enjoy it. Coincidentally, a neighbour has just bought a similar car literally the weekend before last, but "nearly new". It's a 12 plate Elite Nav 160 CDTi in a dark metallic blue with 3,500 miles on it. I don't know the exact spec, but it does have DAB and adaptive forward lighting. He is well pleased, and I can understand why. It's a very nice car, and a quantum leap over the Vectra. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 16:13   New car ordered... - WillDeBeest

... and a quantum leap over the Vectra. A very small improvement, then. };---) Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 15:24   New car ordered... - oilburner

presume that was the nasty EGS, rather than >> the proper torque-converter they do with the bigger diesels? I read somewhere that PSA engineers >> tried to stop the EGS box being introduced, but were over-ruled by the marketing guys >> (again!). Yes, it's a cheap auto, but it is also not a very nice auto! Ho hum, not this one again.... From someone who actually owns a car with the EGS box fitted, all I can say is, give it a few dozen miles and you soon get used to it. After a while, yuo may even find yourself liking it. The EGS is not nearly as bad as is often made out. The people who haven't actually lived with it for a while (or even driven one) are the first to criticise it. As long as you don't push along too quickly and it's matched to a lower power engine (1.6 HDI is great) then it works very well indeed. >> The biggest regret I have with the C5 is that they are slowly phasing out >> the hydro-pneumatic suspension. >> Agreed. A real shame. Last edited by: oilburner on Tue 20 Nov 12 at 15:28 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 15:53   New car ordered... - Fenlander

>> The biggest regret I have with the C5 is that they are slowly phasing out the hydro-pneumatic suspension. >> Agreed. A real shame. Why? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 16:20   New car ordered... - R.P.

No Humph the Anglesey Photostat machine was fixed last week. A well spec'd Vectra passes me here quite regularly, it has an Irmscher body kit and looks pretty good - it's driven by a guy either with a sea captain's shoulder tab's or an airline pilot's tabs 0r perhaps customs. Whoever drives it owns a nice set of wheels. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 16:30   New car ordered... - Runfer D'Hills

I've had a few Vauxhalls over the years. None of them has ever failed to disappoint. Eventually they have all felt like they need a large magnet suspended from the towbar to catch the bits falling off. Must be me. dunno. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 16:30   New car ordered... - DP

>> >> The biggest regret I have with the C5 is that they are slowly phasing >> out the hydro-pneumatic suspension. >> >> >> Agreed. A real shame. >> >> Why? >> If I had to guess, it would be emissions. By losing the suspension, and going to electric PAS, that's a dirty great hydraulic pump and its associated energy requirement that can be taken off the engine. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 17:05   New car ordered... - Fenlander

I rather meant why was it a shame?? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 17:23   New car ordered... - DP

>> I rather meant why was it a shame?? Excellent ride quality combined with a level of body control that you simply couldn't achieve on conventional springs of the same initial soft rate. Self levelling too, which is handy if you carry loads. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 17:39   New car ordered... - Zero

>> >> I rather meant why was it a shame?? >> >> Excellent ride quality combined with a level of body control that you simply couldn't achieve >> on conventional springs of the same initial soft rate. Self levelling too, which is handy >> if you carry loads. Citroen? body control? it had worse body control than the fat rolling over vicky pollards waist band. Muffin top I think they call it. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 17:40   New car ordered... - PhilW

"The biggest regret I have with the C5 is that they are slowly phasing out the hydro-pneumatic suspension." Looks like a second hand oldish C6 for me then when the old Xantia Exclusive dies! Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 17:41   New car ordered... - Zero

>> If I had to guess, it would be emissions. By losing the suspension, and going >> to electric PAS, that's a dirty great hydraulic pump and its associated energy requirement that >> can be taken off the engine. If I had to guess its because they haven't made a centime in profit for decades. Its a unique system in a mass production car. For unique read costly. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 19:25   New car ordered... - mikeyb

You can still buy a C5 with hydractive 3+ but you have to go for top spec and to be honest the normal set up on the lower spec ones is fantastic so it has almost become irrelevant. Its something else to go wrong. Citroen have also fitted the larger alloys to the hydractive models so some of the comfort benefit is lost. FF - as others have said, you drove the wrong auto C5 - the 2.0 hdi 160 has a proper 6 speed auto. I've lived with the egs box in a picasso for 3 weeks, and although I got used to it its not a patch on the DSG or a proper auto. I had a 5008 with the egs box a few weeks back and had forgotten quite how compromised it is. Also agree with the comments about the mondeo - I just don't get it. I would say any of the others you tested have a better feel. Did you consider the 508? Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 20:21   New car ordered... - Fenlander

>>>to be honest the normal set up on the lower spec ones is fantastic so it has almost become irrelevant. As the man says.... The current C5 ( mikey and I of course having 6yrs combined experience of the model) with coil springs has one of the best ride refinements in its class and abilities in that area that exceed many (often over-tyred) makes in the class above. So the need now for the old suspension is fading, particularly in anything other that the very top of the market which is not a comfortable place for Citroen. And the thing is PhilW a well spec'd current C5 even on coil springs is probably a better car than the C6. Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 20 Nov 12 at 20:23 Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 21:31   New car ordered... - mikeyb

Fenlander - yours must be due to go back soon? Any plans for a replacement or would you consider keeping it? I wish I had stumped up and kept mine :-( Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 22:08   New car ordered... - Bromptonaut

I too regret the slow passing of hydropneumatic sus. Accept that coil springs/dampers can now achieve same ride (though not necessarily under all load conditions). But the self levelling with tent, luggage and 100 bottles of beer/50 liters of wine in boot ain't coming with steel. Neither can if obligingly kneel to load or rise to clear rutted tracks. And so long as you don't let amateurs monkey with it it's damn reliable and not too costly if it does go wrong. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 20 Nov 12 at 22:10 Reply to this message | Report message       1

New Tue 20 Nov 12 22:40   New car ordered... - rtj70

>> But the self levelling with tent, luggage and 100 bottles of beer/50 liters of wine in boot ain't coming with steel. Many estates come with the option of self levelling rear suspension. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 23:50   New car ordered... - Fenlander

>>>Many estates come with the option of self levelling rear suspension. Indeed... my Mondeo Ghia X Estate had self levelling rear dampers. Not instant and impressive like an old Citroen but they worked fine. And doesn't Humph have them on the MB... sometimes! Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 23:54   New car ordered... - Dutchie

Waterworld blue nice colour Fursty.Enjoy your new car with all the buttons. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 20 Nov 12 23:58   New car ordered... - Fenlander

>>>Fenlander - yours must be due to go back soon? Yes in 5 weeks. I was offered it and, I guess as it was a Tourer with Nav with 9k less miles than planned, they wanted about £700 more than they did for yours. Self and Mrs F decided it wasn't what we wanted for the next X years so declined. Too complex to explain everything but my mileage has halved, I no longer travel the bumpy fen roads daily and having given up the rural life 95% of our need for a larger estate has gone. We are going to take a few months to decided where things are going and what we might need/want next. You may have missed a thread where I was asking about an old Honda HRV 4x4 which I rather fancy as a cheap temp vehicle. If the next permanent vehicle is new it will be a lease... and from Ling again dipping into her bargain bucket... there are always a few real bargains if you are flexible. Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 21 Nov 12 at 00:00 Reply to this message | Report message

New Wed 21 Nov 12 18:01   New car ordered... - mikeyb

>> If the next permanent vehicle is new it will be a lease... and from Ling >> again dipping into her bargain bucket... there are always a few real bargains if you >> are flexible. >> If the Volvo wasn't already on the drive then one of those sub 300 quid SLK's would have been Reply to this message | Report message

New Thu 22 Nov 12 16:01   New car ordered... - Fursty Ferret

Update: Dropped back into the dealer to ask a question about the FlexRide suspension - according to the Vauxhall website it's standard on the Elite, but their pricelist and brochure show it as a £790 option. Explained situation to dealership - they went straight into the order on their system and added it as an option, saying that Vauxhall will either reject it as "already fitted" or definitely include it in the build. Cost to me? Nada. Nil. Nothing. Very impressed, though not so much at Vauxhall for having about a million different variants of the same car! Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Thu 22 Nov 12 at 16:02 Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 7 Jan 13 18:05   New car ordered... - Fursty Ferret

It's in the post! Due in two weeks... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 7 Jan 13 18:13   New car ordered... - rtj70

Postman will have a heavy bag then. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 7 Jan 13 18:27   New car ordered... - Londoner

>> Postman will have a heavy bag then. >> Touche! *Chuckles* Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 7 Jan 13 19:11   New car ordered... - Clk Sec

Special Delivery... Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 7 Jan 13 19:11   New car ordered... - Zero

It'l get bounced around on the lorry. Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 7 Jan 13 19:35   New car ordered... - Fursty Ferret

I looked for it in the Opel carpark last week when I nipped over to Frankfurt but couldn't pick it out. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 7 Jan 13 19:41   New car ordered... - Zero

Hope you didnt dump a load of fuel over it? Reply to this message | Report message

New Mon 7 Jan 13 21:43   New car ordered... - Boxsterboy

>> Ho hum, not this one again.... From someone who actually owns a car with the >> EGS box fitted, all I can say is, give it a few dozen miles and >> you soon get used to it. After a while, yuo may even find yourself liking >> it. >> I have tried, believe me. I had a Smart, then a C4 Coupe (1.6 HDi), then a Grand Picasso (2.0 HDi) all with automated manuals. I found none to be satisfactory, and certainly not a patch on a twin-clutch automated box (DSG, Ford Powershift). Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 8 Jan 13 10:17   New car ordered... - Fursty Ferret

^^ What Boxsterboy said. I test drove a C5 with this gearbox and swore I'd never go near one again. The DSG gearbox feels like a generation or two ahead. I have one of the appalling old slushy torque-converter gearboxes in the BMW which I'm looking forward to binning. Albeit for a manual gearbox, but at least this one won't argue with me about which gear we should be in. Reply to this message | Report message

New Tue 8 Jan 13 11:11   New car ordered... - Bromptonaut

>> Albeit for a manual gearbox, but at least this one won't >> argue with me about which gear we should be in. Which is why I'd always go for a manual. Reply to this message | Report message