The Panda 1.1 is now down to £6395 from the dealer I have ordered from. I will be getting the car next week after a 9 week wait.
I am paying £6850 and the car is status 60 which means it is going to be delivered to the dealer at any moment.
Now I assume if I say I want it for £5995 they will tell me to f off? I do want this car as I can't wait another 9-14 weeks but in my mind I will have always paid £450 to much for it.
The problem also is the dealer is 90 miles away (at the time it was the cheapest dealer) and they are taking the car up to Manchester for me to collect. All contact with the dealer has been via telephone.
So how should I haggle? I don't want to say knock the price down or I will cancel because I do want this car, but at the same time I want it cheaper. What would you do? I don't have any idea how all this works.
The other issue is credit, although I have not signed anything the credit has been accepted but the more I cancel orders and have new checks it might get declined.
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you have signed up to buy this car at that price. Did you pay a deposit? if you back out you will loose it.
what type and how much finance have you signed up to? who was that through?
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 6 May 10 at 17:38
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Yep but when I signed up I was lead to believe the prices will not come down any further. Two days later they did (but at other dealers).
I paid £100 deposit so its not a fortune compared to £350 I would save.
The finance is a PCP scheme via FIAT as I can't get standard bank loans as I have no property or certified accounts. The deal is £128 a month for 45 months then a baloon payment of I think £2000 at the end. So not the cheapest deal but much better than the carcraft outfits.
I am not expecting the dealer to do it for £5395 but some where in the middle will be nice. I suspect I will end up just asking them for free mats or something.
To avoid confusion the cash price is £6395 but I am paying an extra £400 for the paint. So any prices other people see you need to add £400 to that.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 6 May 10 at 17:45
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As you have signed a PCP deal, you are stuck with that. The only way out of that is to cancel that PCP. You havent bought the car, you have bought the PCP.
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I haven't actually signed anything yet. All I have done is paid £100 deposit.
I agree to finance the day I collect it but the finance company have accepted me if that makes sense.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 6 May 10 at 17:50
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ah ok then, you will loose your 100 quid and you will have to go for a new PCP, so that will mean another credit check.
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You have entered a contract to buy at the agreed price. If you back out it will cost you.
If the situation was the reverse and the dealer wanted another £500 would you be happy?
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No but I have heared of that happening.
I guess what I am asking in this situation is the price I pay the one I agreed to 2 months ago, or is the one the price is the day I buy the car?
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you havent bought the car. Its not yours till the ballon is paid. You are buying the PCP, so thats what needs to be renegotiated.
you are buying gap insurance yes?
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I am buying GAP but arranging myself as it is £75 instead of the £300 the dealer wanted.
It is a tricky situation because the sales man is also driving my car to Manchester so I don't want to annoy him too much!
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 6 May 10 at 18:06
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Think you are stuffed - do you have any order form or anything with their t's and c's on it?
IMO you agreed to buy (and were happy with) that price
£6195 from fiat super saver with paint - one of the disadvantages of waiting so long I guess.
Why has it taken so long to get it - local dealer is offering them from stock
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I've been told several stories but I know when I phoned broadspeed they said it would be 14 weeks. I ordered mine late march so it is probably only been 6 weeks, it just feels much longer.
I will mention the price to them on the phone and see what they say. I guess it depends how desperate they are.
The other problem is the longer I go on without a car the more it is costing me. My dads Fiesta is costing me in insurance and 25mpg. I suppose it is only a few hundered quid it might not be worth all the agro.
Next time I buy a new car I shall be more savy though.
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you left £100 to buy a car not yet made
its now made and on its way to you
you pay
or we send the boys round
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Unless there's a clause in the contract allowing you to cancel (unlikely), the dealer would be entitled to sue for his losses from you not completing.
He's expected to 'mitigate his losses' - ie to sell the car. But he can come after you for the difference between your contract value and what he sells it for.
He may not, of course. But that's the basic legal position.
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Thanks Tigger thats all I wanted to know. I wasn't going to cancel anyway but it means I am not really in much of a position to start bargaining now :( I suppose it just a another expensive lesson learnt.
Edit although there is no contract, I've had no paper work at all, everything has been verbal over the telephone.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 6 May 10 at 22:03
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Rattle, don't worry about it. You agreed the price, waited for it to be built and you're about to get your new car. Relax, be happy and enjoy your new motor.
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>> Unless there's a clause in the contract allowing you to cancel (unlikely) the dealer would
>> be entitled to sue for his losses from you not completing.
>>
>> He's expected to 'mitigate his losses' - ie to sell the car. But he can
>> come after you for the difference between your contract value and what he sells it
>> for.
>>
>> He may not of course. But that's the basic legal position.
>>
As the price has dropped £350 the dealer would lose at least that amount so he most likely will come after his losses, so it's a case of keep to the deal and pay £350 more than the car costs now or try to cancel the deal and lose your £100 deposit AND possibly £350 or more (+ court costs ?) that the dealer could sue for.
I'd bite the bullet and stick to the deal, less hassle and probably less costly in the long run.
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Would the price the dealer paid not have dropped though? I have no idea how the new car market works as I don't have any experience in it.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 6 May 10 at 22:07
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rattle,
you have been on here jumping up and down like a kid in a sweet shop because you couldnt wait for your new car.
Now you have decided you have paid too much and you want to renegotiate the deal.
why do you make things so complicated?
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I accidently clicked on a link to the dealer I am buying it off and noticed the price change. I knew the price had gone down at Lookers but I wasn't too impressed with them so I was not too bothered.
I just don't want to feel ripped off otherwise it will be hard to enjoy the Panda as much.
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>> I just don't want to feel ripped off otherwise it will be hard to enjoy
>> the Panda as much.
>>
Your not being ripped off, you were happy with the deal offered, or you wouldn't have agreed to it.
the price agreed was the price of the car you ordered.
the price of a similar car today is lower. that's life.
If I agreed a price with you to fix my computer would you be happy that I started complaining in 2 months time (when the part you replaced has gone down - as is normal with computers) that you ripped me off?
course you wouldn't!
the cars you are looking at now could be a different spec, or a cancelled order the dealer is stuck with, and is using the deposit he held to reduce the current selling price - maybe its old stock - maybe he needs to liquidate stock, there are many reasons for the apparent lower price.
Just enjoy the car when you get it.
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Maybe, maybe not, it depends whether he has to buy it at the price when he ordered it.
There may be other ways out of the deal because you ordered by telephone and have not signed a contract, but is it worth the hassle of having to order another car, from somewhere else, and waiting again.
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It is not worth the hassle, I had no intension to pull out but I wondered if I could still get a bit of a better deal. On the plus side I suppose I am not being ripped off with the GAP so that will reduce the price a lot :).
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Have you even spoken to the dealer yet? I'd just give them a call and tell them that you have noticed that the price has been cut since you placed your order, and that you're a bit disgruntled, and what can they do about it? They may even be slightly embarrassed and toss in a freebie of some kind as compensation...
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Thats exactly what my mum said. Rather than say what you going to do about it just say causualy I am aware the price has gone down :). Will just have to wait and see, I will mention it when they ring me about the delivery date.
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Mother sounds a very sensible woman - go with it.
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Blimey, R&S - you haven't even got the car yet, but already have problems!!
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When a deal has reached the point of a verbal or physical handshake both parties should feel honour bound to stick to it. Moving the goalposts after that event is at best very bad form. Whatever the legalities involved our culture needs to re-address this failing. Too many times in the field of commerce I have seen promises broken and in extreme cases businesses ruined as a result.
You make a deal, you honour it. It should be the law if it is not already.
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Is it worth the hassle to cancel the deal (if you can) for the sake of £350. I doubt they will reduce it by much if any but I would try and get them to chuck in free mats and a tank of petrol. Get the car and enjoy it.
Remember price cuts happen all the time. My mate moved into house last month and they are selling the last house/plot for £10000 cheaper than what he bought his for. Now that is something to worry about. But as he says thats life some you win some you lose.
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Rattle, this is part and parcel of the modern culture of buying an item at the cheapest price. The internet has made this so much easier, you have shopped around, found the best deal at a dealer 90 miles away and you have chosen that option. I assume you have never went to the dealer or met face to face the salesman.
I would say you need to go with what you have, the dealer is making his profit from you, I daresay he knows he is not going to make any more through servicing etc. If you had picked a local dealer, with a more personal involvement, you might have had some come and go, mats, free service etc.
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Don't sales contracts for new cars usually specify that the price to be paid is the price at time of delivery? Dealers are all to happy to pass on cost increases and logically should also pass on cost reductions. Of couse, the real world doesn't work like that, unfortunately.
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I spoke to them casually about it, I just mentioned I know the price has come down a bit, he said the price I pay will stay the same because it is a PCP he also said the terms are better than what I would have got at £6400 so it works out about the same. Either way I guess life is too short.
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Just got the form from in my inbox. The car is now registered in my name, I have the chasis number and everything. I just now need to sign it so they can send it off to DVLA.
It has quite a nice registration plate but I am surprised it is legal it almost spells "sex"
They have spelt my surname wrong though which is a bit daft but they know about that so will correct it.
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>> I spoke to them casually about it, I just mentioned I know the price has
>> come down a bit, he said the price I pay will stay the same because
>> it is a PCP he also said the terms are better than what I would
>> have got at £6400 so it works out about the same. Either way I guess
>> life is too short.
>>
>>
>>
Thats an excuse. If you havent signed the paperwork then I dont see it makes any odds, but as the loan would be less than the rate may be higher, so in the scheme of things it probably dosent make much difference.
Just try and forget it and enjoy the car
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Great news Rattle. Hope it lives up to your expectations. Good wee cars I gather.
Sorry....no I really am, for thread drift but some of the comments made in this thread where some feel it is acceptable to go back on a deal worry me and touch a raw nerve.
The reality of modern business life and not just the motor trade is more like this....
Raw materials supplier gets screwed by manufacturer
Manufacturer gets screwed by wholesaler
Wholesaler gets screwed by retailer
Retailer gets screwed by customer
All down the chain goalposts get moved, promises get broken, people get exploited and usually someone ends up with a bad deal or worse.
We seem to have forgotten the meaning of the word "honour". Its importance needs to be raised again at all levels and links in the chain. Sadly, it's probably too late. Resultantly, trade moves around the globe chasing cheaper and more exploitable labour just to meet the needs of the developed world and its obsession with saving a few quid often at the expense of the integrity and quality of the end product.
Conscience, honour and integrity seem to be yesterday's values. Well woe betide us.
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>> The reality of modern business life and not just the motor trade is more like
>> this....
Not disagreeing Humph, but no harm in asking, is there?
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>> no harm in asking, is there?
The harm in my view lies in when the question is asked. When a deal is done and the agreeing parties have bargained and settled that should be the end of it.
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Exactly and I have honoured the deal :).
The car comes with 7 days free insurance but I am still paying insurance twice as my current one is supended. I will arrange insurance on this car over the weekend and cancel the insurance on my dads.
No doubt there will be much more hassles ahead with insurance.
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Good man Rattle ! Not having a go at you I do hope you understand ? Just using the platform of your thread to make a more general point about the culture of dishonour and self-interest which pervades modern business in my sad experience.
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>> ? Just using the platform of your thread to make a more general point about
>> the culture of dishonour and self-interest which pervades modern business in my sad experience.
I see what you're saying. But if was in Rattle's car salesman's position, I don't think I would think any less of Rattle for casually mentioning the price drop, as long as when I said 'no' for whatever reason he was happy to leave it at that (as he has done). If he came in demanding satisfaction or tried to wriggle out of the deal then obviously that would be different.
Perhaps if I was in the business trying to make ends meet it would be different though.
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To the best of my knowledge most new car orders will have a contract term of this sort "If after the date of this order and before delivery of the goods to you, the Manufacturers or Importers recommended price of any goods is changed, we shall give notice of any change to you. If the Manufacturers or Importers recommended price for the goods is increased you will be notified of the amount of the increase we intend to pass on to you. You have the right to cancel the contract within a reasonable time of receipt of this notification."
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>> The car comes with 7 days free insurance but I am still paying insurance twice
>> as my current one is supended. I will arrange insurance on this car over the
>> weekend and cancel the insurance on my dads.
thats probably the Aviva 7 day dealers drive away deal. Give Aviva a bell, they are very cheap when moving onto a years insurance from this deal. (I have no doubt it goes through the roof after a year tho)
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100% agree with you Humph... I may have sold my Mondeo estate but I'd never sell out on my values... a deal is a deal... end of.
Thing is Rattle had you walked into that dealer with a stock car that you wanted and £6k+ in your current account that could pay for the car in 3 days when it was prepped then you'd deserve the best deal on the day.
But by your own admission you are not a householder and are self employed with no accounts to prove income so I think they've done well to finace you at all.
So just relax and enjoy the car as others have said.
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My credit history is exellent, I have one credit card which I use and always par more than I need to. I have two contract phones, I have never gone over my overdraft limit etc. So any credit check will show that I have never had any trouble paying loans.
The other thing is I have been self employed for four and a half years so it is unlikely I will be going bust any time soon and I am also a graduate which also reduces risk slightly.
I've also been a customer with my bank since 1987 and lived in the same house for 27 years.
However I am still very pleased I got credit and for self employed it is quite cheap.
I am paying £700 more than Fiat Supersaver but over four years it is not a massive fortune. I spent nearly £2k in one year on that flaming Corsa.
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Oh well sorry if that touched a nerve rattle but above you stated...
***The finance is a PCP scheme via FIAT as I can't get standard bank loans as I have no property or certified accounts***
so your credit history may be good but the credit score obviously isn't or you could get a loan from any source which would have opened up the options to drop on the best deal. Not trying to be negative about you... it's just a factor of youth.
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When i last checked with Experian it was 950 out 1000 so it and it said it higher than average. I will never have any trouble getting car loans etc because they are secured against the car.
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"My credit history is exellent, I have one credit card which I use and always par more than I need to. I have two contract phones, I have never gone over my overdraft limit etc"
Thats not a good credit score.
Two credit cards, two store cards (none with missed payments) A mortgage, at leats one loan, married, living at the same address for more than 5years and a salary paid into a maintream uk bank.
thats a good credit score.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 7 May 10 at 14:38
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SQ
>> thats a good credit score.
>>
My credit score must be fantastic then!
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 7 May 10 at 18:51
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>>>My credit score must be fantastic then!
Has to be to fit the profile of a dragon lady customer!
Last edited by: Fenlander on Fri 7 May 10 at 15:19
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thats a good credit score.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>you forgot to add everything maxxed up too and more than 50% on the mortgage outstanding
now thats a good credit score coz the lenders know your going nowhere...............fast
good posts humph i totally agree with you again no offence to rattle but an agreement for me is either verbal or written,i will never change these after the event even if it hurts and woe betide anyone who tries different terms after the event with me,ive been known to turf customers out of test drives before now and let them walk back to my place if they start bartering after terms agreed
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Comparing the nominal (or notional, maybe..) price of two cars several months apart in different parts of the country with different (probably) finance types and/or rates seems spurious & is bound to lead to feelings of 'inadequacy'.
Cars are advertised with their 'best foot forward'. The price you see, waiting time, 'extras', payment/delivery options etc. etc. won't be dwelled upon in adverts if they're at all contrary to kerb appeal.
So, like comparing apples & oranges - even if the cars are the 'same'. More important, to my eyes at least, is the stonking final cost - via credit (or PCP which is credit in a prettier dress)
- what £7,760 or something to aactually own the car ? Do you intend to find the £2000 after 45 months? - if you don't you're effectively renting the car.
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Rattle - save some money into a good ISA product to pay off the Balloon figure - 2000 quid over a year is about 45 quid a week or 25 quid a week over two - one night out less a week.
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Good advice from PU... the balloon always comes at a bad time... we've had a couple in the distant past and have always cursed that final lump.
That's why I went for full lease this time... known fixed monthly outgoings, no balloon, no responsibiliy, hand it back and get another.
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The reason I went for the baloon payments is the lower monthly payments, my insurance is still very expensive (£800 a year+) so that really eats into the monthly cost of the car. It may be in four years time I am bored of it (I have already owned four cars in 3.5 years, this is my 5th)
You are right though, the last thing I want to do is end up wanting a mortage or what ever, happy with my car and suddenly need to find £3k.
I wonder if it will be possible to pay the baloon early as by the end of this year I should have the money to pay it off, but over the next couple of years that will just get swallowed up. Anything in my ISA just ends up being used to pay inland revenue.
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>>I wonder if it will be possible to pay the baloon early as by the end of this year I >>should .have the money to pay it off,
Well, it's none of my business, but...
You're suddenly able to find 2K at the end of the year, but still yoke yourself into a ~4year
credit agreement, paying well over the odds (when you add the credit/PCP costs..), but think the real problem is paying a few hundred quid over list price!
You also add that you're taking money out of an ISA to pay tax... my mind is boggling at all this - are you serious? Money out of an ISA can never be put back - that year's allowance is gone... and you'll end paying more tax on any money you do so save in future...
The sensible thing (too late now of course..) to do would be buy a used Panda/whatever when you could afford it, i.e. pay cash - maybe by the end of the year or so. Then, no credit costs, less car cost & the freedom to change it when you got bored/whatever.
Anyway, last post from me on this or similar topics/posters.
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And in the mean time waste £100's on yet more old bangers?
I need a car for my business, I have been using my dads but he is using it more and more and its soon it will be fit for the scrappy.
I didn't know just how much my parents owed me until yesterday, me and my sister had been lending them a few hundered quid here and there. The ISA is purely for tax reasons and I do gain a bit of interest from it.
It may be an expensive way of doing it compared to paying cash but it is still much cheaper than contract hire.
The most important thing is to keep my monthly costs as low as possible but I am self employed and by that very nature my incomes changes from one month the next.
The grand total cost of finance is £7888 so when you consider the official list price is £8100 for the exact model I am getting it is not too much of a bad deal.
God knows I have probably wasted over £3k on cars in the past three years.
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Can you put the car against tax ?
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Yep well most the car usuage will be business usage so I certainly can claim the costs/fuel etc.
I need to read all the exact rules on it as it is a bit more complicated when its on finance. It certainly makes the car a lot more affordable but then if I worked in an office in town I wouldn't bother owning a car full stop as there wouldn't be any need.
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"I didn't know just how much my parents owed me until yesterday"
One's parents are never in debt to their offspring FULL STOP.
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How to haggle when you want the car - dilema - Zero
