....and the sourest?
Someone remarked to me the other day how smooth and quiet the CC3 was for a diesel.
It's certainly quieter than that rather loud bag of nails which goes by the name of a VW PD diesel.
I walked past a 10-reg BMW diesel 3 series in traffic recently, and that was also making a rattly racket.
So I reckon the Ford 2.0ltr TDCi is one of the sweeter sounding diesels.
Do you agree?
And what's your nomination for the car with the loudest diesel clatter?
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mine when warmed up. very nice and quiet (until a service is due).
hydraulic engine mounts as well.
Noisiest is the wife's Astra 2.0l dti (sounds like a tractor)
Last edited by: diddy1234 on Fri 30 Apr 10 at 15:32
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>> here, here!
>>
here, here, here! Thrice here!
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My ole Citroen AX 1.4 DERV took some beating - it was quieter than many petrol engines hot or cold.
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Sweetest sounding Diesel has to be Landcruiser V8 though the RR V8Diesel is sweet too, I've never heard a 4 pot engine that sounds nice.
The pulsing note of a V8D reverberating back through the car is quite addictive in a hooligan sort of way.
You've got to go back a model or two to find a clattery Diesel now, VW's old school ones were always noisy.
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>> I've never heard a 4 pot engine that sounds nice.
>>
I'd second that. I've NEVER heard a four cylinder diesel that sounded pleasant and that includes BMW - who apparently know a thing or two about engines - and Mercedes.
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How about confining the discussion to four-cylinder diesels? My five-cylinder Volvo sounds nicer than any four I've heard, and no doubt the devotees of the BMW sixes would say the same about those.
Of modern engines (since 2000) I've tried, the nastiest by far is the VW-sourced 2.0 PD 140 in the Mitsubishi Grandis; it really was enough to scrub the whole car off my shopping list.
That horror apart, the other medium-size fours I've tried (Ford, Mazda, Citroen, Toyota) don't really stand out in my memory, except for sounding like four-cylinder diesels. A 2004 BMW 320d and a 2005 Saab 9-5 1.9 may be the nicest I've tried, although that may have as much to do with the installation as the quality of the engine itself.
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Do BMW make a V6 diesel engine ?
I bet that sounds nice.
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Scania 142 with Eminox stacks:)
Pat
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>> Scania 142 with Eminox stacks:)
>>
>> Pat
You beat me to it Pat! I was going to nominate whatever engine they put in the Alexander Dennis Dart SLF - very throaty and quite sporty sounding.
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They don't know what a proper deisel V8 sounds like with their little Tonka Toys, Badwolf :)
Pat
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>> Do BMW make a V6 diesel engine ?
>>
No straight 6.
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I think I am right in saying that Euro V emission regulations has meant changes to diesels which means they are no longer as refined as Euro IV engines. I might be talking nonesense though ;-)
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Hmmm you really don't like the PD do you ifithelps! I have not heard the Landcruiser v8 but the TDV8 Land Rover sounds lovely. The new 3.0 Jag Landrover v6 is lovely too as is a straight six BMW. Don't know about the new emissions levels but the VW CR 140 engine is very civilised but then no 4 pot oiler is characterful. The old 1.4 PD 3 cylinder had a nice growl when revved and the old 2.5 TD5 Land Rover engine sounds great too.
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330d sounds nice both at tickover and when revved (nice 6 cylinder 'howl') and certainly not much diesel clatter - if any. Similarly the V6 in JLR products is very refined.
I rather liked the sound of the Volvo D5 when I had one one briefly back in 2003, IIRC that has a nice 5 cylinder 'thrum'.
With 4 cylinders then you have to accept a little more noise, however the Honda 2.2 CTDi is pretty refined although it does make a peculiar 'wheezing' sound.
Newer VAG CRs are OK - doesn't the 2.0 CR have balancer shafts on it? Then there's the Ford/Peugeot HDi/TDCi engines which all sound nice enough.
VAG PD engines are distinctive if nothing else, I can't say I like their gruff sound though.
My 1.9 XUD (?) in a Citroen ZX 17 years ago was pretty refined.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Fri 30 Apr 10 at 16:41
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>>Any switched off<<
I'll second that...
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any renault diesel sounds much better than the ford one.
the VW PD unit does not sound like a bag of nails, its sounds "characteristic" and "unique"
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...Hmmm you really don't like the PD do you ifithelps!...
Never owned one, so I don't really know enough to comment, which doesn't usually stop me, so here goes...
The PD engine sounds harsh and noisy, certainly from the outside, and I do think that's not good enough for what are supposed to be executive expresses such as the Passat and A4.
My car has a not unpleasant growl when pushed, but I agree it could not be described as 'characterful'.
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>> any renault diesel sounds much better than the ford one.
>>
Which Ford one?
Renault CR diesels are refined, a Laguna III 2.0 is the only 4 cyl I have driven that gets close to the Mondeo III TDCi. The Mondeo is EuroIII and as per rtj70's point above I reckon Euro IV and V has proven a challenge.
>> the VW PD unit does not sound like a bag of nails its sounds "characteristic"
>> and "unique"
>>
Just shows what you know ;-)
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My "Queequod" actually manages to sound quite sporty when asked. It's all puff and wind of course, a bit like a practised pub singer but pleasing enough.
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The Renault 1.9dCi is smoother, sweeter and less gruff over 4000 RPM than many petrol engines I've experienced. It just doesn't have that deep, gruff "grumble" that most diesels have when pressed. Lovely turbo / wastegate noises too, with a deep "sigh" when you lift off.
I find the BMW 4 pot diesels to be very ordinary in terms of refinement. My brother in law had an E90 320d and it would send odd vibes through the gear lever and pedals, and sounded very clattery and grumbly.
Sweetest of all though would have to be the 175 bhp 2.4 Multijet 5-pot that Alfa used in the 156. I know some consider the idea of a diesel Alfa to be sacrilege, but really it was everything you'd imagine Alfa's take on diesel power to be. Didn't half go, as well. This engine of course lives on in the 159 (with 200 bhp), but I haven't experienced it.
I agree the VW PD sounds like a bag of nails, but it goes like stink and returns fuel economy to embarrass anything short of a hybrid. It's forgiven, in my book.
Last edited by: DP on Fri 30 Apr 10 at 19:25
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I second the opinion on the Ford TDCI diesel.
I have had petrols for the past 20 years due to wanting a quiet engine but since buying my Mondeo diesel i have to say i'm converted.
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I'd agree about the Renault diesel - the TD in the R19s I had sounded much like any other 4 cylinder diesel at idle, but the turbo made a wonderful note when you really pushed the throttle.
And before anyone says it, no, it was not the death note of the turbo bearings :)
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Flat-four diesel:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo9wRfd4QkI
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIDKSbBSIz4
Still a little sewing machiney with the lack of rpms )
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My CR 170 in the Octavia is quiet and refined, but perhaps 'sweet-sounding' is pushing it a bit!
The sourest was definitely the combinatrion of four cylnders and CVT transmission in the Mercedes B-class I had - similar sound to a London taxi but louder.
The most memorable - undoubtedly the 1950s Commer lorry. Anyone old enough to remember that noise?
Last edited by: Avant on Fri 30 Apr 10 at 21:32
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My new petrol sounds like a diesel at idle (the joys of direct injection). Does that count? :-P
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Well, if we're talking commercial vehicles then it has to be the Leyland O.680. I used to love driving buses with that engine. The noises you could generate were wonderful.
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A healthy Gardner 6LXB makes quite a nice noise as well.
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>> A healthy Gardner 6LXB makes quite a nice noise as well.
Agreed, wholeheartedly. Buses just don't sound the same these days. Automatic transmission makes them a lot easier to drive but they sound almost uniformly boring and dull.
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Well if we're straying into big engines then a not too weakly injected 14 litre Cummins was a joy as you could only hear the turbo on the move and the 300 Rolls Eagle for rumble power, though the best Diesel sound of all has to be the Deltic....thats it later on i shall have to get on youtube for a Napier fix.
Avants Commer nostalgia saw them made later than the fifities, United Carriers still had a few made in the late sixties when i worked there mid seventies.
In early eighties Bedford used the GM 2 stroke's in their TM range of trucks and an odd KM tractor unit or two ISTR, lacked torque and you had to thrash the living daylights out of them to get them to move resulting in 3 to 5 mpg being the norm, sounded wonderful though.
As an aside have you ever noticed that well sorted TD's, those putting enough fuel through unlike many, result in a pleasant drive and that lovely turbo whistle coming in well down the rev range and being the predominant sound (you can forget the rev counter and drive by sound).
I'm driving a new (manual now there's A Good Thing) Mercedes truck at work and that does exactly this and is effortlessly tractable as a result, able to pull cleanly down to 800rpm without struggle.
Generally sound wise i dislike common rail Diesels in cars, from an outside the vehicle listeners point of view they sound harsh under power, where older diesels had a softer sound.
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>> The most memorable - undoubtedly the 1950s Commer lorry. Anyone old enough to remember that
>> noise?
>>
Commer TS3? wapedia.mobi/en/Commer_TS3
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Going off slightly at a tangent, I (and many others) think that they shouldn't be called diesel engines.
tractors.wikia.com/wiki/Ruston#Ruston_.26_Hornsby
"On September 11 1918, the company amalgamated with Richard Hornsby & Sons of Grantham, to become Ruston and Hornsby Ltd. Hornsbys were world leaders in vaporizing oil engines, building them since 1891, a full eight years before Rudoph Diesel's engine was commercially produced. Hornsby having bought the production rights to Herbert Akroyd Stuarts Oil engine designs, marketing them as the Hornsby-Ackroyd Safety Oil Engine."
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>>The most memorable - undoubtedly the 1950s Commer lorry. Anyone old enough to remember that noise?<<
Certainly am - there's plenty of clips on Youtube for anyone who hasn't heard it. Foden made a two-stroke diesel as well with a similar roar.
A couple of years ago I came across the Ecurie Ecosse racing car transporter at the Angouleme racing weekend and the driver (not Whizzo Williams) was kind enough to fire it up for me so I could hear a TS3 again after all these years.
When I was a kid my father drove a Leyland Octopus with an 0.680 and I have to say, if I had to admit to liking any diesel noise at all, that would be second only to the Commer. It ticked over like a grandfather clock.
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"....there's plenty of clips on Youtube for anyone who hasn't heard it. Foden made a two-stroke diesel as well with a similar roar."
Many thanks for that Mlke - I hadn't thought of Youtube. Great to hear that happy Commer sound again! Amazing to see that some of the clips have had over 20,000 hits - we can't all be sad....can we?
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One that is switched off. None sound sweet!
The only acceptable one I heard was a citroen hdi engine in a c5 a few years ago. Couldn't hear it from inside the car hardly. Was quite quiet at idle too even outside the car. The rest of them sound like a skeleton having an epileptic fit in a filing cabinet.
The honda civic 2.2 is ok from inside the car too.
They'll never sound sweet. There's just levels of nastiness. Vile things.
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The smoothest and quietest diesel I can remember experiencing was the V6 3.0TDI in the present Audi A6. The responsiveness was reminiscent of a good petrol engine.
The 3.0 straight 6 BMW diesels are amazing in their smoothness, power delivery, wide rev band and the almost-petrol-engine-like howl at high revs but are more "sporty" than "quiet".
The quietest 4 cylinder diesel I've ever driven was a 2005 model basic spec Renault Laguna with the 1.5 dCI engine. I was so taken with the engine it helped distract from the recycled egg boxes used for the interior plastics and the general laissez faire approach with which the car had been built.
Most disappointing diesel was the 5 cylinder thing Alfa inflict on the Brera. Tractor like and with monster turbo lag reminiscent of a 1980 Porsche 911 which probably explained the turbo boost gauge.
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the one with the key out of the ignition
having to hear diesels most days does my nut in
i hate the noise the smell the expense
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the one with the key out of the ignition
having to hear diesels most days does my nut in
i hate the noise the smell the expense
oops came back computa say no post
but it did
you wouldnt get that on hj------- ;-0
Last edited by: Bellboy on Sat 1 May 10 at 14:31
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A newish Porsche Boxter (P/P but white paint gives the game away) passed me whilst walking this morning with the engine on over run as it turned left into a side street, there was plenty of valve clatter not dissimilar to a diesel. Obviously once it had turned the corner and accelerated away the exhaust note more than made up for the din.
One mans meat.....................
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I guess the sweetest sounding diesel is the one the company pays for...
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I like the L-Series engine, its not sophisticated but it is just an honest sounding engine that plods along in a reassuring way. The only engine that will ever tempt me to buy Rover again.
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Are we talking about running smoothness or character? If latter then the Subaru engine yes along with the 6.2 litre v8 Northstar motor in Ford f250 pickups and the 5.9 litre cummins straight 6 in the Dodge Ram. Also a Napier Deltic sounds fabulous in a train as does the Paxman valenta v12 they used to put in Intercity 125s. The new MTU v16 has a nice throb at idle but disappointingly quiet!
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V8 Detroit, closely followed by the Foden 2-stroke.
When I lived in Derby, a local tipper firm had an old 8-wheeler ERF with a 325 Cummins, with Eminox stack. You could hear that thing bark miles away!
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Just a correction from me. I said no 4 cylinder Diesel is sweet: I meant inline four as the Subaru flat four is lovely
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And along those lines MB i wonder if Subaru have any intention of Dieselling the 3 litre flat 6, i do hope so, that would be a marvellous engine mated to a proper auto box.
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VW PD diesel sounds just fine to me (see below). Had a 1.9 110ps and now a 2.0 140ps.
Now if the overpowering road noise could just be removed I could hear that characterful PD growl.
Talking of non-sweet sounding diesels. I was in the engine room of my fathers ship at about 8 years old. I was (am) interested in engines, and my father, the Chief Engineer, told me to stay put while the full starting sequence (required by Lloyds insurance) for all the auxiliary generators and compressors, then the main engine was run through. By the time the main engine was running, a two stroke blown British Polar, I was absolutely deafened (no ear defenders in the 1950s) and could not really hear anything but could feel the air throbbing. Amazed that Dad was not deaf after decades at sea.
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The PD does (especially once loosened up) sound very "hitch me up and i could tear your house off its foundations without breaking a sweat" powerful.
Don't see the attraction of driving about with a lorry engine up front though :-P
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The particular PD engine (170PD with DPF in an A4 B7 Avant) which I experienced was simply horrid, gruff, noisy, peaky and thirsty for both oil and diesel. I concede that the 1.9 (in all non-DPF variants) is better but I'd contend that modern CR diesels are significantly more refined and driveable.
At the risk of causing offence - I can't see why anyone would like the PD engine when compared to (say) a recent Honda iCTDi, Ford/PSA TDCi or BMW 'd' engine, or even the replacement VAG 2.0 CR ?
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I don't know what VW were thinking about with the PD system, even I, as a self taught diy car enthusiast and bodger could see that it was not as flexible with fuel delivery as an electronically controlled CR system with a reserve of high pressure fuel available for multi pulse injection. Also CR engines are not wrecked if you put the wrong spec oil in them, (within reason), I think many VW PD owners don't realise this. I would not buy a used one, or a new one come to think about it. Non VW CR for me!
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Remember diesel engines have come on quite a bit in the last couple of years with the new and improved (ahem ! don't mention Mercedes Blueefficiency) injectors. These are much more precise than those used less than a decade ago.
PD worked at the time. Technology advances.
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>> PD worked at the time. Technology advances.
>>
I thought CR was around when PD was developed, or at least they appeared at about the same time.
I thought at the time when they were both new that PD was a less flexible system.
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Alfa 156 2.4JTD sounds superb & sweet to drive.
My 2.2d jaguar was superbly quiet & smooth, passat Tdi is ok but noisey when pushed
2.0 d jaguar was a little noisey 2.2 freelander engine very sweet & still crisp at the moment.
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>>My 2.2d jaguar was superbly quiet and smooth
Is this the same engine as found in the Mondeo ST Tdci?
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see the excellant post at Sat 1 May 10 14:12
so good it was repeated in fact........................................
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>> Also a Napier Deltic sounds fabulous in a train
Napier Deltic is good, but too quiet. A fully warmed Class 37 is the next best thing!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdCYjazxHoM
Last edited by: corax on Thu 24 Jun 10 at 22:30
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The PD makes a lot of sense. I like the way it places the critical lubrication of the pressure generating part of the fuel system with the engine oil rather than the fuel. Sure, it breaks badly if you put the wrong oil in it, a problem compounded by VAG being unbelievably hopeless in documenting/publicising the need for "special" oil, but then poor quality / contaminated diesel has been blamed for a lot of common rail failures too. I think oil is much more of a "known quantity" than diesel.
I had a common rail diesel of similar output to our current PD, and in refinement/smoothness terms, the common rail was in a different league. But it just didn't have that wallop in the midrange or that unstoppable, "I could punt this car up a vertical rock face if it had enough traction" feel on boost that makes a PD engined car so enjoyable to drive, and the PD had a good 15% advantage in economy terms.
I do accept that the new generation common rails with the piezo injectors and other refinements have moved things on. My boss has a Jag XF 3.0 diesel (the 240 bhp one) and it is very, very impressive. Although it is also not very good on fuel (mostly motorway use, no short runs, and he's getting 36 mpg)
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Don`t know whats in it, but our Dennis dustcart sounds fantastic! Smooth, powerfull and with just a tint of turbo-whine, I love Mondays!!!!
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After the Commer TS3 - new Jag XFS 3.0 diesel is one heck of an engine - goes like a rocket and sounds lovely - what's more it's v economical.
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What is the sweetest sounding diesel? - diddy1234
