Non-motoring > Starmer's proposed cuts in welfare benefits Miscellaneous
Thread Author: bathtub tom Replies: 12
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New Thu 13 Mar 25 12:51 
 Starmer's proposed cuts in welfare benefits - bathtub tom
It's reported that dozens of labour MPs are up in arms because of the proposed cuts. Do you think the MPs know who their electorate are?
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New Thu 13 Mar 25 16:02 
 Starmer's proposed cuts in welfare benefits - Bromptonaut
>> It's reported that dozens of labour MPs are up in arms because of the proposed
>> cuts. Do you think the MPs know who their electorate are?

Two thoughts:

Firstly I'd hope Labour MPs are sufficiently independent minded and thoughtful to follow the facts and not people who believe the latest rubbish in social media. Or the real media for that matter given the nonsense Stig Abel was spouting on Times Radio yesterday.

Secondly I think their wider electorate, and particularly those adding to MP's postbags, will have a lot of concern about their own relatives etc. who might be disadvantaged or even impoverished by changes.

Right now of course we've only speculation as to what might be involved.

One aspect that does alarm me is the probable extent of fraud, with active colusion of car salesmen, affecting Motability. Apparently 50% of cars sold in Northern Ireland are through Motability!!
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New Thu 13 Mar 25 16:25 
 Starmer's proposed cuts in welfare benefits - Robin O'Reliant
>>
>>
>> Apparently 50% of cars sold in Northern Ireland are through
>> Motability!!
>>

Back in the bad old days in Northern Ireland the voting turnout at elections used to be as high as 110%, with the slogan "Vote early, vote often " in common use.
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New Thu 13 Mar 25 17:22 
 Starmer's proposed cuts in welfare benefits - zippy
Whenever there are Govt or Quango etc. grants there are people who will take advantage. I recall a fortune being lost in the Blair years over learning grants for adults where companies would print cheap learning materials. Sign on scroungers to take the course for an upfront payment of say £50 and bill the govt the full value of the grant - i.e. several thousands of pounds!

Same with so called legitimate businesses. A pharmaceuticals wholesaler ripped the NHS out of millions by selling unguents to pharmacies at a monumental price; for example £1000, when the cost price was nearer £100. The pharmacies were on a cost plus agreement for stuff like that and billed the NHS say £1100. The wholesaler then credited the pharmacy £500, splitting the profit with them. When the bank found out they told the wholesaler to re-bank and advised the SFO.

Obviously all fraud is bad, but wonder how much is lost to fraud from businesses and / or the rich, as opposed to individuals on benefits.
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New Thu 13 Mar 25 18:47 
 Starmer's proposed cuts in welfare benefits - Terry
Fraud may be as prevalent amongst the poor as the wealthy or business. Fraud is simply not acceptable.

Blaming the rich is no more satisfactory an explanation than blaming the indolent. Both groups are probably partially responsible for excessive spend.

The basic issue is that welfare costs are increasing at an unaffordable rate with no credible quantifiable explanation. Choices - either stump up what it costs and fund it by increased taxes or reductions in public spending elsewhere.

As a society we have a duty to support those in real need but we have difficult choices to make. I do not believe all public services are efficiently delivered (hence NHS England announcement), nor that policies we currently hold dear are forever sustainable (eg: pensions triple lock).

It is something of a surprise that it should be a Labour PM who seems to be taking the initiative - I hope he has the c****** to carry this through.
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New Thu 13 Mar 25 19:19 
 Starmer's proposed cuts in welfare benefits - sooty123
>> >>
>>
>> Firstly I'd hope Labour MPs are sufficiently independent minded and thoughtful to follow the facts
>> and not people who believe the latest rubbish in social media. Or the real media
>> for that matter given the nonsense Stig Abel was spouting on Times Radio yesterday.
>>
>>
>

What was he saying?
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New Thu 13 Mar 25 20:02 
 Starmer's proposed cuts in welfare benefits - Bromptonaut
>> What was he saying?

That people who were a bit anxious could get a Motability car.
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New Thu 13 Mar 25 19:19 
 Starmer's proposed cuts in welfare benefits - sooty123
I think the PM is feeling squeezed, he wants more headroom for potential tax cuts to show he's not all about increasing taxes. Plus it may give the economy a boost, he also needs to spend big on defence.

Welfare spending is a pretty big bill
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New Thu 13 Mar 25 21:08 
 Starmer's proposed cuts in welfare benefits - Manatee
It's huge and also so has been the growth rate. That's what drives the conclusion that economies must be made.

I never thought I would see a Labour government cutting "welfare" to fund a shortfall. The Tories went after the least well off to compensate for the bank bailouts which I thought was despicable.

However the growth rate alone, principally around disability related payments, suggests that there is a control issue here around disability and PIP payments (my terminology might be outdated).

Crudely, a lot of people over 50 have something wrong with them and when times are tough if they can get signed off there is clearly an advantage and an incentive to doing that. Charitable doctors aside, and there must be a few of those in NI, nobody really knows just how much of a struggle a specific disability for a specific person is apart from that person. Unfortunately it is not easy and will not get any easier to sort the mildly inconvenienced from the real strugglers, some of whom probably could work but would find it very difficult - exactly how much do we expect a disabled person, possible in pain, to struggle to keep working?

My own small insight onto this sort of thing is as a pension trustee for 10 years when I reviewed a lot of ill-health retirement cases. This was always done with the benefit of medical reports from occupational health doctors and it wasn't easy. One knew that in reality some were simple early retirement cases in which the member was aware that if their health was judged to be such that they could not, permanently, perform their duties then a higher pension would be the result.

In practice we did what the government does. Put the decision back to the doctor as far as possible. In some cases they simply could not say whether the member would recover or not.

A regrettable aspect of this is that it looks as if the focus will be on disability payment rather than 'subsistence' payments aka "the dole". So the babies that get thrown out with the bathwater will be the genuinely disabled who appear to be better than they actually are.
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New Fri 14 Mar 25 10:29 
 Starmer's proposed cuts in welfare benefits - Falkirk Bairn
Some of the targets for Benefit cuts

1 in every 8 "youngsters" (16-24) have left school and are not at University, College, Training or ill - they do not work - they draw benefits &/or other sources casual / cash in hand

8.2 per cent of people aged 16-64 in the UK today (3.4 million people in total) have never had a paid job (besides casual and holiday work)

Near neighbour, a widow, lived in a 4 bed home with her 2 teenagers. The house was owned by her parents. Kids left home, after say 5/6 years, and she continued to live in the house for roughly 20 years in total. Council paid the rent and she claimed benefits for all of that time apart from 2 short courses at the local college and a few months reading electric meters. The parents recycled the rent to her plus bought & repaired cars for all that time.

Getting money from parents can be taken as income by DWP BUT "those who know the rules" know that they can pay off debt (credit cards/fuel bills etc etc) and this money is disregarded!!!
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New Fri 14 Mar 25 12:06 
 Starmer's proposed cuts in welfare benefits - Bromptonaut
>> Getting money from parents can be taken as income by DWP BUT "those who know
>> the rules" know that they can pay off debt (credit cards/fuel bills etc etc) and
>> this money is disregarded!!!

That was the case under legacy benefits and it caused plenty of problems of its own with trying to help people manage their affairs.

Universal Credit is more nuanced. It's only unearned income if it's listed in the Regs.
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New Fri 14 Mar 25 10:49 
 Starmer's proposed cuts in welfare benefits - Bobby
Cutting taxes.

At what point are we going to wake up and realise much of what is failing in society is funded by taxes??

Police, justice, court systems, NHS , Heath, potholes, bin collections, education etc etc etc. we can’t just keep trying to reduce taxes time and time again.

Those that are very high earners or wealthy can protect themselves from this by paying privately for most things. But the country is going down the dregs in this ever pursuit of lower taxes.
Last edited by: Bobby on Fri 14 Mar 25 at 10:51
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New Fri 14 Mar 25 13:32 
 Starmer's proposed cuts in welfare benefits - Manatee
If you look at the trend on taxes, then you'll see a rising trend. But I agree with you anyway, the job of government is to do what needs to be done and we have to pay for it or not have it.

For 2023 our total tax take/GDP was 35%, France and Denmark were 44%.

Saying "we're going to cut your taxes" usually means "we're going to reduce your services".

But it seems that welfare is not adequately controlled or targeted, rather than the rates being too high.

Any system can be gamed and housing benefit is a prime example on which many landlords get rich. HB also leads to the crazy situation of recipients living in better homes than many who are working, funding their own housing cost, and less well off.
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