Just curious, what does C4P make of him? I read he did well in PMQs today.
I dont know why but id dislike him whatever party he was in. Ive named him Flubber, seems to suit.
It tickles me that the man of the working class party is so well off and doesnt seem to have ever worked in the kind of profession his party historically represents. I guess times have changed on that front.
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I have no idea really. There is no law to say you have to be a son of a miner to be a labour prime minster. Look at John Major he was not your typical torie in terms of background.
Mind you neither was Maggie really.
Personaly I think they are all as bad as each other.
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Rattle>> Look at John Major
>> he was not your typical torie in terms of background. Mind you neither was Maggie really.
How wrong. They were both perfect Tories. Aspirational, standing up for themselves, not expecting the state to provide them with what they want but instead working for it themselves.
I hope you're a Tory, Rattle, as you're an entrepreneur.
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What amazes me is thet he wanted rid of the old gaurd yet fills his shadow cabiney with what can only called hasbeens.
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He's what I call 'plausible', a bit like a double glazing salesman.
(Sorry EP, but I'm sure we all know the type.)
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Any millionaire who is also a self professed socialist is by definition a hypocrite . See Tony Blair.
Any politician who has never worked outside politics is unlikely to have experienced "normal" working life.
Any politician who would not have won election without the support and funding of the largest UK trade union has divided loyalties.
So he's ideal as the leader of a party determined to help working people, campaigning against the social and employment circumstances which have made the UK socially immobile, and ensuring the rich pay more taxes.
Edit: and he went to Oxford like most of the elites so he's ideal to ensure that university education is open to all.
Last edited by: madf on Wed 13 Oct 10 at 18:59
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Well put madf - I thought Erudite was a sort of glue until I read your post! Very good! Definition Erudite = characterized by great knowledge; learned or scholarly
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Don't like him and I like few of the Labour politicians (but then I am a Tory voter). However, those I do like are those who are honest, who have done a day's work 'at the coal face' of their chosen profession and if very wealthy admit that they have little in common with those they seek to assist.
I particularly dislike those who seek to deny to existing children and students, the opportunities they had when they were children or students. I find it galling that so many of the last administration were educated in state funded selective grammar schools whilst denying clever children the same opportunity. It is impossible for a regular comprehensive to give the very bright child the education needed to get to the very good universities and similarly, some people would be better with a vocational education from age 14.
We are having to move our son with Aspergers Syndrome to a small independent school (which will cost thousands each year) because his high school will not view him as having a problem - why? Because he works fine in class. His problems are outside the classroom and so the school gets no funding for children like him.
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I was thinking about the double glazing salesman comparison, but I dont think he is.
He reminds me more of those guys who work in Currys/Comet, so generic and missable in a suit.
I must say, I like him more than Dave Milliband though, he had barely any more character than Gordo. Atleast Ed does have some pluck, if lacking some substance.
Im still waiting to here what cuts Labour WOULD have made. All Ive heard about are the ones they wouldnt make, which seems to be just about everything, so Im guessing it would be the UFO defense budget that nobody knows about that they would have cut.
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>>It is impossible for a regular comprehensive to give the very bright child the education needed to get to the very good universities
My daughter went from a comprehensive to Oxbridge as did at least two of her classmates. Maybe they weren't very bright. Miliband went to a compo as well for that matter.
The trouble is professional politicians. The last people you want to govern are people who just want to govern. Cameron hasn't done a proper day's work either as far as I know - wasn't he a PR for a bit, not exactly a recommendation for sincerity?
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>> The trouble is professional politicians. The last people you want to govern are people who just want to govern. Cameron hasn't done a proper day's work either as far as I know - wasn't he a PR for a bit, not exactly a recommendation for sincerity?>>
The majority of politicians represent the same brief.
Remember the old saying that those who can do and those that can't, teach (or become politicians!)?
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>> I particularly dislike those who seek to deny to existing children and students, the opportunities
>> they had when they were children or students. I find it galling that so many
>> of the last administration were educated in state funded selective grammar schools whilst denying clever
>> children the same opportunity. It is impossible for a regular comprehensive to give the very
>> bright child the education needed to get to the very good universities
I thought you were going to say something about those educated at uni without tuition fees and with maintenance grants. I could have agreed with that.
Our local bog standard comprehensive (OK 'specialist language college') has done my two proud. I'm not sure what very brightmeans but one already has plenty A grades at GCSE and good AS results. Aiming for AAB Uni offers. Her brother will do the same. They've gone up to senior school with all the kids they started with at primary (can you really sort sheep from goats in a few hours at 11???) and are both well rounded individuals.
Would not have it any other way.
I think Miliband will be OK but my vote would probably have goner to Burnham. Balls makes me want to scream.
But I resigned from the party around 2000 over rightward drift.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 13 Oct 10 at 21:22
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"I thought you were going to say something about those educated at uni without tuition fees and with maintenance grants. I could have agreed with that. "
You know, I was going to say that, but I forgot! That is even more galling. There were anomalies though. When I was at Uni, a boy whose parents were divorced but both independently wealthy got a full grant simply because he came from a 'broken home'. He had more money than the lecturers. I on the other hand got no grant at all.
I grew up when to get three As at A-level classed you as super clever. I went to a very good independent grammar school, one that regularly sent ten or so pupils to Oxbridge every year. The best O-level results were eight As. We didn't take any more than that. (I got 2As and 3Bs and failed three others). 12A*s from today's pupils now just shows you how much easier the exams are.
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His brother would have done a better job in my opinion...
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His brother had a history of putting both feet in it.. and screwing up royally as Foreign Secretary...Think Indian Presdient, the Russians Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov ( ‘Who are you to f…king lecture me?’)
Other than that and being richer than Ed and not being supported by the union, I could repeat my kind remarks and describe David...
Except David Miliband has the courage and spine of a jellyfish..and the charm of one...
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I agree with PU and think David Milliband was the better of the two. Next election, the Conservatives will get back in with a majority and Ed Milliband will be moved on. David Milliband will take over and win the election after that after the country getting fed up of the Conservatives again.
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The Milibands are the sons of a distinguished Marxist intellectual, raised as sort of members of the left wing of the political class, or what passes for one in this country. Ministers and revolutionaries would have dined at their parents' house.
Both brothers are high-minded and to be taken seriously. However politics makes knaves of many. Indeed it can be said, and I have said it, that we don't want some nice guy running the country, do we?
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I attended a David Milliband leadership campaign meeting.
Seamless performance, the guy could speak for an hour without so much as stutter.
Very impressive in a very superficial sort of way.
Loads and loads of style, very little substance.
Can't think why he lost. :)
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They all seem to have sprung out of the same mould to me,
Dave. Corp Clegg, Phoney Bliar, Red Ed, Vlad the Impaler etc., etc.
I wouldn't vote Labour *whoever* was at the helm but - Alistair Darling is worth listening to IMO.
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As was Jack Straw at one time, shame he blew it and that revolting little lump of dog poo Denham has the cheek to come back to the front bench after resigning on principle over Iraq.
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Frank Field's one of the few Labour MP's of recent years that I've held any respect for. The rest of them aren't, in my opinion, fit to run an orgy in a brothel.
Any political party that can allow a shyster like Peter Mandelson to prosper after such a blatant act of fraud deserves only contempt.
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>> His brother would have done a better job in my opinion...
I cannot think of David without associating him with a banana. He was perhaps unlucky but a more insightful politician wouldn't have given the snapper the chance.
Interestingly one of our local MP's (a tory) who I regularly meet in a non political capacity made exactly the same observation
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I find Labour as a party rather perplexing. I just dont get really what they stand for, or rather, who. Maybe thats why I glaze over when someone from their party talks.
My father-in-law is what you would expect to be a traditional Labour voter - he is a retired lorry driver from a genuine working class family ( who all actually work ).
He was saying that Labour are not the party of the working class anymore because he couldnt recognise working class principles in the party, but Tory principles thinly veiled so as to appear different.
He actually voted Tory last time because he felt they were perhaps equally posh as Labour and Liberals, but they didnt pretend half so much that they werent, which to him is about as honest as you can hope for from politics. Policy seemed to play second fiddle to the ethos of the parties. Its a strange thing really that we have arrived at that point.
I sympathise with him. It is actually very difficult to split the parties these days on principles and culture. I think thats why we have Boris Johnson as mayor - he knows what he is, he doesnt hide what he is and people like that. He really is too posh to be a Tory in some ways and he isnt anywhere near as polished, but it makes him distinct and these days, I wonder if thats all we are left to hope for - someboy whos name we can remember.
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Decent people with potential leaders amongst them were bullied out by Blair/Brown.
Last edited by: Pugugly on Wed 13 Oct 10 at 21:56
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Bromptonaut said 'I cannot think of David without associating him with a banana'
Clicking here should help you get over that :
enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/09/30/pictures-of-david-miliband-looking-stupid-with-ice-cream/
Last edited by: Soupytwist on Thu 14 Oct 10 at 13:10
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>> Just curious, what does C4P make of him? I read he did well in PMQs
>> today.
The leader is a comparative irrelevance. He's like the cork in the pig's backside. How anyone can contemplate his mob with affection for the next decade or two, after the last, is a mystery.
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I struggle to understand how anyone can support any of the political parties. As far as I am concerned they are all liars, most wouldn't know the price of a loaf of bread and the whole thing is more set up and orchestrated than an episode of the X Factor.
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Ed Milliband is the Ian Duncan Smith of the labour party. Supported by the party activists but with no real support in the parliamentary party and derided by the media. Doomed to fail and will be replaced within two years
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"Doomed to fail and will be replaced within two years"
Hmmm The Labour Party don't believe in merit as Leader. They let the hopeless cases continue as Leader so they can lose elections. They are not like the Tories who ARE ruthless.
As evidence I give you:
Foot : a loser evident from day 1.
Kinnock: ditto.
Brown: ditto.. selected despite a book which faithfully relayed all his known faults...
Two out of the three above were not English which shows how out of touch the Party is when choosing leaders..#
In the last 50 years, only two Labour Leaders have won General Elections: one is dead and the other a multi millionaire warmongering liar.
#
The last non English PM elected in the UK was iirc Lloyd George...
Last edited by: madf on Thu 14 Oct 10 at 09:58
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>> Hmmm The Labour Party don't believe in merit as Leader. They let the hopeless cases
>> continue as Leader so they can lose elections.
During the election campaign for the leadership of the labour party after the resignation of Jim Callaghan, some labour MPs allegedly voted for Michael Foot instead of Dennis Healey in order to render the party unelectable and facilitate its rebuilding. Kinnock of course was also unelectable.
I wonder what would have happened had John Smith not died (2 weeks after the death of Ayrton Senna which is how I remember it).
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John Smith would have taken the Labour Party in a different line, probably remaining in power for many years with limited scandal or sleaze and no invasion of Iraq.
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Yes, that's what I think, at least what I'd like to think.
Easy to forget that sleaze and corruption as well as cross dressing and oranges were some of the reasons for the downfall of the Conservative Party in 1997.
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>>The Milibands are the sons of a distinguished Marxist intellectual, raised as sort of members of the left wing of the political class, or what passes for one in this country. Ministers and revolutionaries would have dined at their parents' house.<<
Dang! You got in first AC.
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>>
>> I wonder what would have happened had John Smith not died (2 weeks after the
>> death of Ayrton Senna which is how I remember it).
>>
John Smith was a Scot.
Ergo : unelectable..
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>> Just curious, what does C4P make of him? I read he did well in PMQs
>> today.
>>
I watched PMQs. I did not think he did well at all. However, Nick Robinson of the BBC disagrees with my opinion.
One third of Ed Milliband's 28 memebrs in the shadow team were privately educated and went to Oxford or Cambridge
ps - A news report gossips that Stephanie Flanders (d/o Michael Flanders, one half of the double act Flanders and Swann) the BBC economist dated Ed Balls and Ed Milliband in the Nineties.
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....The last non English PM elected in the UK was iirc Lloyd George...
Nope...... Sir Alec Douglas Hume was Scottish ... He became Lord Home of the Hirsel his ancestral home ( which is near Coldstream in the Borders )
As for what I make of Milliband Minor......
Frankly I could not give a toss......
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Completely wrong about Douglas Hume , born in Mayfair and appointed Prime Minister
But I still don't give a toss about Milliband or his mates......
Last edited by: retpocileh on Thu 14 Oct 10 at 12:18
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>> ....The last non English PM elected in the UK was iirc Lloyd George...
>>
>> Nope...... Sir Alec Douglas Hume was Scottish ... He became Lord Home of the Hirsel
>> his ancestral home ( which is near Coldstream in the Borders )
>>
>> As for what I make of Milliband Minor......
>>
>> Frankly I could not give a toss......
>>
And which General Election did Sir Alec Doglas Hume win?
None..
I did say "elected" - and I did anticipate such a reply..:-)
Pedants 1 Others nil. Final Score
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Can you define "Scottish" and "English", and explain why Tony Blair is English or Scottish.
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John Smith was my local MP and I had met him on a few occasions and he was the one politician, maybe also include Tom Clarke in this, that I felt I could trust and would stick to his principles.
If he had got in and not Tony, I am convinced this country and its political reality show would not be the same as it is now.
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Watching him speak at the CBI conference - dull, dull, dull - duller than ditchwater all that's missing is a 60 page Powerpoint after lunch. Charisma - Nil Point.
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A dull Scotsman? No Party would be dim enough to elct another one as Leader?
After Brown, Labour have not - they've decided to elect an Englishman: but he's still dull. As charismatic as a drain...
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Madf,
Are you willing to take the challenge above and define Scottish or English with particular referenece to ACL Blair?
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ACL Blair - Scottish when he wanted/needed to be (to show his Labour credentials); English when he was on the world stage. Walter Mitty
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>> Madf,
>>
>> Are you willing to take the challenge above and define Scottish or English with particular
>> referenece to ACL Blair?
>>
Bromptonaut, thanks for reminding Madf of the as yet unanswered question I posed for him.
I have a supplementary one for him: is Ed Milliband English, or Belgian, or Polish?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Miliband
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Polish Jewish I assume, depends on where his mother was from I suppose. Still so dull - drone drone zzzzzzzzzzz....
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Oh don't get me on the topic. Jewish father (not sure about mother although she is of Jewish origin). He sends his children to a CoE faith school despite him not married to the mother so he can't be 'that Jewish' can he? Supports the 'break the Gaza blockade' nonsense despite the BBC Panorama programme in the summer showing it was a terrorist scam to fool the media.
Untrustworthy, unknown and not a suitable candidate to be PM.
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>> Untrustworthy, unknown and not a suitable candidate to be PM.
At least he's not a Zionist nutter Espada (I'm not suggesting you are, but I think you tolerate them. And they are a big threat to world peace).
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Judaism and Islam are essentially the same religion, with different nutters driving them. Jewish people are basically displaced Palestinians (with a few hundred years of other cultures mixed in)
Its rather like British politics, same group of control freaks want to enjoy power and all the trappings that go with it, spouting different philosophies, but all from the same source wanting the same thing.
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I think he's been fairly open in describing himself as an atheist with Jewish roots. As an atheist with Cof E roots I've got no problem with that. His children are a bit young for school, the youngest was still in utero at the time of his election. If we let religion meddle in the provision of state education then you're inevitably going to get some mis-matches. Even 40yrs ago we had at least one Jehova's Witness at our CoE primary school and I'm pretty sure we had a few catholocs and jews as well.
I cannot see anything in his background to make him untrustworthy. His views on the middle east situation may not accord with those Espada holds but the status quo is not sustainable and is directly sustaining the extremists on both sides.
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Supports the 'break the Gaza blockade' nonsense despite the BBC Panorama programme in the summer showing it was a terrorist scam to fool the media.
Which the Israeli Military assisted in by killing people?
(Give me strength.. A plague on all their houses)
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Ed Milliband - RattleandSmoke
