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Ongoing discussion
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 14 Oct 22 at 13:08
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59605273
Might be useful for our overseas posters to know.
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Thank you. Massively useful.
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Interesting. I wish it was so easy for U.K. based issues. All three of my jabs have locally in U.K. My second dose, administered in May, is not in the system due to some error. The booster vaccination centre accepted my vaccination card as evidence so gave me the booster. This has duly registered online.
There is a process for missing records but, unlike the simple one for foreign records, the system requires you to report to 119 who take basic details and say the back office will call back. Depending which NHS site you read this will be in 5 or 21 days. I have been waiting since 1 November and called them again this week to check progress. Needless to say the call centre had no access to my previous request so I needed to repeat it all. They don’t ask for the date, batch record or centre of the missing record so I assume nothing is being done until I receive the second call.
With the threat of vaccine passports and the possible need to go to Scotland soon I want it resolved soon but I am not holding my breath.
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>>My second dose, administered in May, is not in the
>>system due to some error.
Exactly the same with my second dose, although I'm fully vaccinated. Like you I spoke to someone at the 119 call centre and will await a call back within 21 days.
I'm not really too bothered though, as taking a foreign holiday or visiting a night club aren't particularly high on my agenda.
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59605273
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>> Might be useful for our overseas posters to know.
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I meant to tell you, my daughter took advantage of that. When I say advantage, I mean her appointment to get her vaccines registered is Wk2 Jan.
Which isn't very impressive. And then it takes another week for it to appear on the database and *then* she can get her booster.
Still, better than nothing I suppose.
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>> www.bbc.com/future/article/20211209-how-to-talk-to-vaccine-hesitant-people
The comment about virulent conspiracy types being in a minority is spot on. I've spoken to a few where vaccine refusal has placed their jobs at risk and they all have real issues that might be more susceptible to persuasion than being repeatedly hit with a big stick.
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When the daily death rate figures are published do they ever show what percentage/how many are fully vaccinated. If not they should.
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Not that I’ve seen. Why would they not shout it from the roof tops if it would help the ’everyone must get vaccinated’ cause.
And Dr Hilary said on TV that 90% of covid patients in hospital were unvaccinated, when the actual number was 36% according to the official figures.
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A recent estimate I saw was 75% in ICU and 90% for the most serious level of care, including ECMO. But I don't know what that means.
It's not straightforward - patients in for operations can be in ICU for a day or two, Covid patients who need it can be a week or more, so the Covid percentage of patients actually in there at a given time is higher than the percentage of the total patients who pass through. Similarly the Covid ones split into the more and less serious.
What I'd like to know is how the number of ICU patient-days splits between vaccinated Covid, unvaccinated Covid, and others, to understand the relative impacts.
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I think I just heard this correctly on LBC....
Two does of Pfizer gives you 33% protection against the new variant which rises to 75% with the booster.
AZ gives 0% protection!!!
Is this right??
Also seems like a large number of Tory back bencher's are going to vote against the upcoming restrictions.
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Protection against what? Catching it (don't care) or getting severely ill +care quite a bit).
Since Omicron appears to be so mild I'm not sure we should be stopping people getting it.
Far better for it to spread, impossible to stop anyway, we just don't need rampant serious cases overloading the hospitals.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 10 Dec 21 at 18:38
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"Since Omicron appears to be so mild..."
Do you have a report to back that up at all?
"Far better for it to spread" may well cause "rampant serious cases".
We just don't know yet, on either the first part of the sentence or the whole thing
Touche! :-)
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twitter.com/vicderbyshire/status/1469354766560026624
Victoria Derbyshire tweet @ 17:14 today.
"My brother’s triple-jabbed - the third one was Pfizer 3-4 wks ago. He’s just got covid & feels ‘rough’ & is isolating. Had a Xmas meal out with a load of mates last Friday - all of them vaccinated - 17 out of 21 of them have now tested positive."
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We both had 2 x AZ + a Pfizer booster, like nearly everybody else I think.
We've just discussed with friends we were going with and cancelled a run out to the Classic Car Auction at Stoneleigh today, on the basis of the report and the uncertainty around it. The auction will attract people from all over the country and could turn out to be a superspreader event; it wasn't something we needed to do, although I was looking forward to it.
I'm not unduly scared of Covid for myself, we think we've had Covid already and survived, but it's coming up to Christmas and I'd rather not be in full isolation.. Whilst we haven't much planned, we do intend to have a day out at Audley End with the grandsprogs in about 10 days time and it would be a shame to miss that with Covid.
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>> Touche! :-)
Hardly. I reported nothing as facts, or even certain.
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Johnson to address the nation at 8pm tonight on the booster programme.....
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>> I think I just heard this correctly on LBC....
You what?
>> Is this right??
Its LBC. Factuality is barred on that station,
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>> What I'd like to know is how the number of ICU patient-days splits between vaccinated
>> Covid, unvaccinated Covid, and others, to understand the relative impacts.
>>
...whilst I don't think they provide those particular data, the regularly updated ICNARC reports, that I've mentioned before, and available here:
www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports
(downloads in the right "pane")
..provide a pretty comprehensive review of the impact on (UK) ICUs, broken down by almost all criteria you could think of (including vaccination status).
Some of it is hard going, but it's a fascinating insight.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-59609452
A video about compulsory vaccination, in the video it said that health workers have to get the flu jab. If that is true, i wonder if those in health care not having the cv jab are happy with the flu jab?
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>> A video about compulsory vaccination, in the video it said that health workers have to
>> get the flu jab. If that is true, i wonder if those in health care
>> not having the cv jab are happy with the flu jab?
Please forgive me if I dance on the head of a pin for a short period of time.
A compulsory vaccination is not the same as a vaccination being a condition of employment.
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I think the world needs to start to understand that COVID is BAU. It is no longer time to disrupt the entire planet as we seek to avoid it, rather we must manage living with it.
I think this has been apparent to the majority of the population for some months. It would appear that the media and the politicians have not yet grasped the point
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Without knowing what your BAU looks like, I don't think we can start to relax. Not until it is more under control, with better therapeutics and more reliable vaccines, across the world, including the poorer countries.
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>>I don't think we can start to relax
I think you should wait and follow what the experts tell you.
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I didn't realise you had a hierarchy or order of priority.
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>> I think the world needs to start to understand that COVID is BAU. It is
>> no longer time to disrupt the entire planet as we seek to avoid it, rather
>> we must manage living with it.
I don't believe any western nation can accept as BAU an illness that potentially overwhelms healthcare so that treatment becomes a (postcode?) lottery.
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There are reports of Omicron patients being admitted to hospital - so it seems it has the potential to be very disruptive.
What is unclear is (a) how many, and (b) their vaccination status.
A small number who have been too foolish to get vaccinated - BAU.
A significant number including those vaccinated and boosted - we have a problem.
Right now the answer is not clear.
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Accepting it as BAU or not makes little difference. It is now part of our lives however hard you ram your head into the sand.
How well did the border controls work at stopping the spread of Omicron?
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We don't know, nor do we know how much worse it might have been without them, if at all
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 12 Dec 21 at 19:08
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>> We don't know, nor do we know how much worse it might have been without
>> them, if at all
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By the time a new variant is discovered it is too late for border controls as it has already started to spread, and you only need one carrier to enter a country to begin infecting the population.
The media are really getting on my nerves, hysterical headlines about infections and hospitalisations without any reference as to whether or not they have been vaccinated and to what extent. That is the important information and one that is most likely to see an uptake in vaccinations if indeed it is the refusers who are bearing the brunt.
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Yeah, we have to accept that Covid is BAU, and we need to get on with life and the economy needs to get going. BAU does not mean ignore it, it means to adapt to it and live with it. Masks in crowded areas and on public transport, vaccination passports for events and places, robust testing for foreign travel in and out.
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Oh OK, like we should be doing already... :-)
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Come on guys, wtf is bau? Been And....
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>> Come on guys, wtf is bau? Been And....
OFFS EFK BAU is Business as usual.
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>> >> Come on guys, wtf is bau? Been And....
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>> OFFS EFK BAU is Business as usual.
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And there was me thinking - quite smugly - that it was Beyond All Understanding.
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Seems the PM has set a pretty bold target of all over 18s offered a jab by new years day. Seems a big ask.
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It's sending the right message though, even though it may be unachievable in practical terms.
But unfortunately only those who want to hear it will hear it, and most of those will have already heard and acted on it.
I know of one or two who were quite happy with vaccines but feel that boosters is one step too far, or are reluctant to get boosters. I don't get that really. Somehow people must be pushed to do it.
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Not really surprising, everyone has a limit at which point they'll think enough is enough.
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I'm still vacillating about booster.... 2 dose of AZ so far and with the first I nearly had my arm in a sling for 3 days, and was off colour for over a week; 2nd arm was less sore, but off colour for 10 days. Reports from friends are that Pfizer booster is causing very sore arm in those who had no reaction to AZ originals, so that probably doesn't bode well for those of us that reacted to first doses!
I may book it for about 7th Jan, and just have a week off work this time if it's bad. If the omicron situation doesn't turn out to be too bad over the next few weeks, it can be cancelled.
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SWMBO and I felt grotty (her) and hungover (me) with a loss of appetite for twelve hours after our first two AZ jabs. She took to bed for half a day and I had no side effect whatsoever (other than knowing someone had pushed a needle into my arm) after the Pfizer booster.
I guess it affects different folk in different ways, but we're happy to suffer the side effects in preference to the virus.
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Had Pfizer, Pfizer and Pfizer.
No reaction to first two - slightly achey shoulder for 4 days after the booster but felt fine systemically.
Mrs had the same 3 Pfizers - 12hours of flu-like symptoms after first dose, followed by zero reaction to dose 2 and the booster.
Just like Covid itself, the immune response to the vaccines seems quite variable.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 12 Dec 21 at 22:48
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Had both my booster, Pfizer again, and flu in the same arm Saturday AM. Slightly sore arm but not that you’d really notice.
Returned home from Spain late Thursday, PCR test in the post Friday AM, negative result received 14:45 Saturday.
I phoned my local surgery Friday to enquire about a flu jab and was invited to drop in Saturday AM for the 2 jabs. I accepted their kind offer and didn’t have the heart to tell them that I should be isolating until I got the result of the PCR.
Given my outdoor lifestyle in Spain the past 45 days, a negative ‘fit to fly’ test Thursday AM, and the fact that the surgery was incredibly quiet...where were all the people who should be getting boosters ?.....I didn’t feel too guilty.
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Did you fly yourself back or did you have to hang round in an airport with hundreds of others then be on a flight with 200+ others for a few hours, before visiting a surgery for something which could have easily waited a few days?
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It's a fair point. How about if that test had come back positive Saturday afternoon? Then what would you have done? Telephoned the surgery to explain the level of crap that you had dropped upon them?
Covid *does* spread through airports, and you went through an airport. It would have been better to wait.
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If you’ve travelled through ‘holiday’ airports you’ll know how quiet they are these past 18 months. Especially at the times I specifically choose to fly and pay more for....mid afternoon rather than early morning as advised by friends working in the industry.
Alicante was pretty much deserted mid afternoon.
Checking in my bag took 5 minutes. The security queue was non existent so I sat outside in the sunshine until 45 minutes before departure time.
I hadn’t been inside any bars or restaurants the week before I flew, although sat outside bars every day with friends at the end of a walk.
The 737 was almost half full, which surprised me, and every passenger had a negative antigen test certificate otherwise they would have been denied boarding.
I won’t be going on busy trains to Leeds on the lash this Christmas....a quiet bus for an afternoon on the beer in quiet pubs with a handful of friends will have to do instead.
Cheaper beer than Leeds so that’s a bonus.
Last edited by: legacylad on Mon 13 Dec 21 at 11:52
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"If you’ve travelled through ‘holiday’ airports you’ll know how quiet they are these past 18 months."
I have, and they weren't.
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As have I. They definitely weren't.
But in any case, how many people does it take?
It's done now and anyway it didn't go wrong, so there's little point going on about it but I find your behaviour disappointing.
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>I'm still vacillating about booster....
First two doses for both me and Mrs K. were AZ. A sore arm and a feeling like the onset of a bad cold for a couple of days.
Booster was Pfizer and no reaction at all.
I was in hospital with covid in May '20 before vaccines were available and I can tell you that you really, really don't want even a mild case of the little blighter. My sense of smell still hasn't fully recovered and I have another CT scan next week to see if the anticoagulant has done it's job with a bloodclot they found.
That's 18 months (so far) of complications that a few days discomfort after a jab has a good chance of preventing.
I'd get the booster first chance you get if I were you.
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>> I may book it for about 7th Jan, and just have a week off work
>> this time if it's bad. If the omicron situation doesn't turn out to be too
>> bad over the next few weeks, it can be cancelled.
Looks like 7th |Jan might be too late. If your reaction to the vaccination was bad, dunno how bad your exposure to the real deal might be. I'd go for a planned slight issue, than an unplanned possibly severe issue.
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>> I'm still vacillating about booster.... 2 dose of AZ so far and with the first
>> I nearly had my arm in a sling for 3 days, and was off colour
>> for over a week; 2nd arm was less sore, but off colour for 10 days.
>> Reports from friends are that Pfizer booster is causing very sore arm in those who
>> had no reaction to AZ originals, so that probably doesn't bode well for those of
>> us that reacted to first doses!
I understand your reasoning, but perhaps the relationship between your reaction to the vaccines and your reaction to the actual disease might also tend to follow a similar pattern?
FWIW, the boss and I had 2 x AZ, + a Pfizer booster. I had a similar reaction to all 3, a tender, slightly warm-feeling injection site for around a week, and feeling tired and headachey for 2/3 days. I probably felt a below par for a bit longer than that.
Some people call it a side effect, which I suppose it is, but in a way the reaction could be what you want - isn't that how vaccines work?
i profess no expertise, I tend to default to as much protection as I can get. Apart from anything else, if I do get a bad infection I might be needing the NHS at just the wrong time if this variant does turn out to have a big impact. I don't suppose pensioners will get first claim on scarce treatment resources.
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My first jabs were Sinovac. No noticeable impact.
My booster was AZ. My arm hurt like hell immediately and the owing 24 hours were really rough.
My friend had Pfizer with no particular effects. His booster was AZ and he had an awful time, probably 48hrs.
My third friend had AZ with no impact. His booster was Pfizer and he was rough for 24 hours, 24 hours after.
So I conclude from that that no particular sweeping statements are likely to be valid.
Like Manatee I take every bit of protection available to me. I don't have a particular issue with the thick dying, in fact I can see the upside, I'd just rather they didn't vlog up the hospitals in the process.
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I take it your booster was in Chile?
I think the booster is pfizer or moderna in the uk.
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>> I take it your booster was in Chile?
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>> I think the booster is pfizer or moderna in the uk.
Mrs B and I both got Moderna.
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>> I take it your booster was in Chile?
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>> I think the booster is pfizer or moderna in the uk.
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Mine was in Chile. I think that what determines the booster is that it should be different to the initial vaccine.
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>> I think that what determines the booster is that it should
>> be different to the initial vaccine.
My understanding too. In UK that seems to mean either Moderna or Pfizer.
I've had 2 x AZ, 2 x Pfizer. My daughter has had 2 x Pfizer and 1 x Moderna.
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Well all three of mine were Pfizer.
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>> I think that what determines the booster is that it should be different to the initial vaccine.
Exactly what I was told by the nurse who administered my 3rd vaccine.
My 1st and 2nd jab was the Astra, my 3rd was a different potion, which was the Pfizer vaccine.
However, Facebook experts tried telling me differently and it didn't matter what the 1st and 2nd jabs were, the 3rd/booster can be the same potion.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 16 Dec 21 at 13:22
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My three jabs have all been Pfizer (or its brand name Comirnaty).
Mrs JL's were two AZ plus Pfizer booster.
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Those who had 2 Pfizer to start with seem to have also had a Pfizer booster, based on my very small data set (which is also skewed by many of them being doctors, who had theirs at work). But those who had Modena / AZ seem to be getting Pfizer. I guess if the Pfizer one is more effective against the omicron variant then that’d make sense
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I had pfizer the first couple of times, but my booster was modena. The only people getting pfizer were those that had some sort of reaction previously.
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This is the one I posted some scare stories about in the last Coronavirus Vaccine volume.
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=29439&m=639082
I thought I read the other day that the Indian govt decided to not use this drug, in fact I'm sure I did.
Whatever, today I read that the French aren't going to use it either. , the French are saying it isn't as good as stuff already in their armoury.
www.sortiraparis.com/news/coronavirus/articles/245659-coronavirus-the-haute-autorite-de-sante-does-not-approve-emergency-marketing-of-molnupiravir/lang/en
The UK are still planning to use it I believe. The Independent today picked up on the mutation risk, which may be small but nonetheless seem to be of concern.
www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medical/covid-pill-being-rolled-out-among-vulnerable-britons-could-fuel-dangerous-mutations-experts-warn/ar-AARIde6?ocid=mailsignout&li=AAnZ9Ug
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In Volume 12 on 28 Nov and also above that I mentioned some drawbacks with the data on this drug.
Seems the whole of Europe may be not using it for just that reason. You heard it here first!! :-)
www.ft.com/content/2cf0b6cc-b07b-4ff9-a833-42eb1798a576
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This is the other drug (alongside Merck's pill) which HMG are expecting to dish out to us. Pfizer issued a press release of an interim result, and it's missed its primary endpoint
"the novel primary endpoint of self-reported, sustained alleviation of all symptoms for four consecutive days, as compared to placebo, was not met. The study continues"
where a primary endpoint is "the planned outcome measure that is the most important for evaluating the effect of an intervention/treatment."
There are one or two good secondary outcomes, which is reflected int he final analysis bode reasonably well e.g.
"0.7% of patients who received PAXLOVID were hospitalized through Day 28 following randomization (5/697 hospitalized with no deaths), compared to 6.5% of patients who received placebo and were hospitalized or died (44/682 hospitalized with 9 subsequent deaths)."
and
"PAXLOVID reduced viral load by approximately 10-fold, or 0.93 log10 copies/mL, relative to placebo"outcomes
There are a number of secondary endpoints which "were not yet available for this review".
PR here www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-announces-additional-phase-23-study-results
Trial definition here clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT05011513
I think it's be quite unusual for a drug which has failed it's primary endpoint to be considered successful, but let's hope the full results tell a different story.
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Looks as though France is closing to UK tourists due to Omicron:
www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/16/france-tighten-covid-restrictions-travel-omicron-uk
Wonder how long before other EU countries put up the barriers.
Glad Mrs B and I eventually filed Xmas in France under 'too difficult'.
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>> Looks as though France is closing to UK tourists due to Omicron:
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>> www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/16/france-tighten-covid-restrictions-travel-omicron-uk
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>> Wonder how long before other EU countries put up the barriers.
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>> Glad Mrs B and I eventually filed Xmas in France under 'too difficult'.
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Well it’ll have to be soon as there are no checks between EU countries at the moment, which will make it a somewhat leaky closure! Currently you can also get into CH with a negative PCR (<72 hours before entry), and Geneva is the gateway to many French ski resorts when flying anyway…
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>> Well it’ll have to be soon as there are no checks between EU countries at
>> the moment, which will make it a somewhat leaky closure! Currently you can also get
>> into CH with a negative PCR (<72 hours before entry), and Geneva is the gateway
>> to many French ski resorts when flying anyway…
I guess controls will be applied either at the juxtaposed borders at St Pancras and Dover/Eurotunnel or otherwise on arrival by ferry or plane.
Agree that entry via a Schengen state would be difficult to police. We've spent time near Geneva but in France (Gex) and also on the Franco-German border. In both cases the frontier is as easy to cross as England to Scotland.
Has Brexit led to the reappearance of the 'fiche d'etranger' or similar at hotels?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 16 Dec 21 at 15:08
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Just realized I added this to the wrong thread.
It's general Covid rather than vaccine related.
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>> Has Brexit led to the reappearance of the 'fiche d'etranger' or similar at hotels?
>>
I’ve been to France 3 times this year, and travelled through last year as well on the way to Italy. No change in check-in requirements in hotels to pre brexit anywhere, though the Tous AnticCovid app was checked at restaurants etc. One pleasing thing was that almost €1.2 to the £ France was cheaper than it has been for some time! Though I hadn’t factored the new customs rules into my return journey purchases. I think it’s basically 2 cases of still wine and 3 bottles of sparkling now. I might have not been fully aware of that... The duty is around €1 a bottle on everything if you’re over I believe, but no one asked…. I’ll plead ignorance of the new limits when I am stopped, and from then on adhere to them :)
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Ahh, I was getting worried. I hadn't heard his words of wisdom for ages. Should have those still undecided about vaccination queueing at the walk-ins.
tinyurl.com/ycxwmxkt
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Someone mentioned to me this AM, and I hope it’s not true, is that anti vaxers have block booked appointments at major centres like Wembley, to get jabs and not turning up, deliberately preventing folks who want the jab from getting it.
Their mantra of “My body my choice” seems to now be “Your body my choice too”!
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I gather anti-vaxers protested outside out local council office last week, involving schoolkids too - allegedly with some intimidation. not seen any confirmation yet though.
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Our vaccinated niece’s live-in boyfriend has an anti-vax mum. He is unvaccinated and has gone down quite badly with COVID. He has had low blood oxygen levels and had the paramedics out once. Luckily he seems to be on the mend but is still keeping to his bed.
What surprises me is that the mum has now obtained a selection of drugs (anti virals etc) from a German online pharmacy and is insisting he takes these. Why would someone who doesn’t believe in the vax think it’s safe to administer a mixture of drugs? I think they are each approved for non COVID use but the combination won’t necessarily have been tested.
Last edited by: martin aston on Mon 20 Dec 21 at 12:34
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"What surprises me is that the mum has now obtained a selection of drugs (anti virals etc) from a German online pharmacy and is insisting he takes these. Why would someone who doesn't believe in the vax think it's safe to administer a mixture of drugs?"
It shouldn't be surprising, because it's part of the same mindset. The idiot who convinces themselves that they (along with their self-reinforcing mates - online or elsewhere) know better than the "evil" establishment which is trying to control the population believes the vaccine is bad and that what they decide as a cure is good. They've "done their research", you see, and they have an insight which is unavailable to us ignorant sheep.
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... also just seen on Twitter a video of a Notice of Liability for Vaccination Injuries/Death being served on my local council by the anti's. Not exactly clear what that is but it's one thing them deciding their own fate but I'd sooner decide my own, if it's all the same to them
twitter.com/i/status/1472378694425534467 - sound is a bit poor.
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>> I hadn't heard his words of wisdom for ages.
Even David Icke is right occasionally.
"In a personal attack on the Prime Minister, Icke described him as "a disheveled prat" and "genetic liar"."
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I received an email from NHS this afternoon to say that they are sending me a PCR test kit to keep at home. If I develop any symptoms I need to use it asap. If that tests positive I will be offered new antibody and antiviral treatment.
www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/treatments-for-coronavirus/
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Are you classed as vulnerable? I heard of a couple of others who have got the same, who are both vulnerable.
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>> Are you classed as vulnerable? I heard of a couple of others who have got
>> the same, who are both vulnerable.
Yup, me too.
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>Are you classed as vulnerable?
Well I didn't know I was but obviously the NHS seems to think so. Effects of my brush with covid last year.
I'll try playing the sympathy card with Mrs K. to see how that goes.
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>> I'll try playing the sympathy card with Mrs K. to see how that goes.
mere inches. (and we aint talking bonios in speedos)
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>> I received an email from NHS this afternoon to say that they are sending me
>> a PCR test kit to keep at home. If I develop any symptoms I need
>> to use it asap. If that tests positive I will be offered new antibody and
>> antiviral treatment.
>>
>> www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/treatments-for-coronavirus/
>>
Likewise
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So this is where the loonies get their information. Endorsed by Piers Corbyn as "The best damn paper I've ever read" on a google link.
thelightpaper.co.uk/assets/pdf/Light-16-i-Final-Dec.pdf
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Just listening to the Joe Biden presidential address re CV19:Omicron (sounds like a movie).
What a relief to hear a sensible person urge people to get vaccinated as opposed to the previous incumbent.
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>> What a relief to hear a sensible person urge people to get vaccinated as opposed
>> to the previous incumbent.
Who apparently was boo'd by his adoring followers when he announced he had had the booster.
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>> So this is where the loonies get their information. Endorsed by Piers Corbyn as "The
>> best damn paper I've ever read" on a google link.
>>
>> thelightpaper.co.uk/assets/pdf/Light-16-i-Final-Dec.pdf
I'd say they have a point about the online safety bill. What is misinformation? I don't want the government deciding that, or directing FB etc. on how to do it.
The issue for me however isn't the wacky opinions it's the unintended consequences of the algorithms used by online media, and the lack of understanding among the the audience of how they work. I fervently hope that new generations will be much more savvy and sceptical of what they see when they click. For the generations who grew up without smartphones, 'what can't speak can't lie' seems to prevail.
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 21 Dec 21 at 20:48
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We place great importance on the right to freedom of expression - not so doing leads to repressive regimes where individual rights are routinely abused by governments.
The price we pay is the rise of the nutters. There are no real barriers - anyone can communicate anything, no matter how bizarre or unpleasant, via social media, to billions within hours. The world could change before Boris has even realised the threat and called a COBRA meeting
Assuming governments are able to apply controls over social media (they have done close to b***** all so far) how do they decide what is acceptable, what is profoundly daft but harmless, and what is dangerous.
Perhaps properly educating people to be more discriminating in what they believe is a major part of the solution.
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I would hate to write the Lesson Plan for that.
Social media can be an extremely hostile place. I refer particularly to Youtube. There is a wealth of information and interesting topics from all over the world. If you don't know how its done Youtube it.
It has however a corner, populated by political activists and by idiots whose life goals are to make the majorities and hard working persons life difficult for monetary reward. That's their sole goal and by monetising it only encourages them under false pretenses. The gullible and impressionable fall under the spell.
It serves no purpose but to inflate the egos of those who pedal it.
Freedom of speech and expression appears to be the 'get out of jail' card to allow it to continue. That for me would be a good starting place. It serves no benefit.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Tue 21 Dec 21 at 21:59
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>It has however a corner, populated by political activists and by
>idiots whose life goals are to make the majorities and hard working
>persons life difficult for monetary reward. That's their sole goal
>and by monetising it only encourages them under false pretenses. The
>gullible and impressionable fall under the spell.
Ahh, you mean the reality-TV 'stars' and 'social influencers' showing off their expensive lifestyles with fancy cars, private jets and videoclips of themselves in bikinis 'working' in the Maldives while the rest of us trudge around the empty shelves in Sainsburys.
People actually take notice of that carp so I'm starting a second career as a social influencer. Coining it in just for being seen in exotic locations casually fondling whichever handset pays the most moolah.
I'll soon be recording a clip set against a stunning vista of glistening water in Basingstoke's Eastrop Park where temperatures will be in the low 30s and if anyone wants to come along and take a selfie with me I'll let you know the exact date as soon as TK-Max can get a bikini in my size. (There's a 'Spoons with outdoor seating about 100yds away Duncan, but get there early because that's where they leave the pushchairs.)
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>> I'll soon be recording a clip set against a stunning vista of glistening water in
>> Basingstoke's Eastrop Park where temperatures will be in the low 30s
Well be quick, its warming up later and the dog s*** goes slushy again.
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>> I'll soon be recording a clip set against a stunning vista of glistening water in
>> Basingstoke's Eastrop Park where temperatures will be in the low 30s and if anyone wants
>> to come along and take a selfie with me I'll let you know the exact
>> date as soon as TK-Max can get a bikini in my size. (There's a 'Spoons
>> with outdoor seating about 100yds away Duncan, but get there early because that's where they
>> leave the pushchairs.)
>>
Very sweet of you to offer, but
1. Having worked in Basingstoke for 20 years I have no particular wish to go back any time soon.
.*********
3. Still knowing you, you will make sure that Big Ron gets into the shot and refuses to move out. You don't argue with Big Ron.
BTW. If you see an old bloke on an electric bike on the Basingstoke Canal towpath give him a wave.
Edit.
". (removed by the swear filter - presumably, suggested that you will drop the camera. Honestly, it was a very mild six letter word which starts bug. Why the whole lot had to be removed, I don't know.
Last edited by: Duncan on Wed 22 Dec 21 at 09:29
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>> BTW. If you see an old bloke on an electric bike on the Basingstoke Canal
>> towpath give him a wave.
Bad news Dunc, I know you haven't been down there for a while, but the Basingstoke canal hasn't made it as far as Basingstoke since about 1860.
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Zero, you are only about one hundred years out, so that's not bad for you.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basingstoke_Canal
I regularly ride along the Wey Navigation and then pick up the Basingstoke and ride as far as St John's or Woking for coffee.
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>> Zero, you are only about one hundred years out, so that's not bad for you.
>>
>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basingstoke_Canal
>>
>> I regularly ride along the Wey Navigation and then pick up the Basingstoke and ride
>> as far as St John's or Woking for coffee.
Then you regularly pass my way. Surpised you haven't been savaged by my pack of Goldies.
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Didn't realise you kept fish too... :-)
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>> Surprised you haven't been savaged by my pack of Goldies.
>>
...the smell of stale Spoon's beer and Capstan Full Strength keeps them away...
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>> Bonio in his Lycra?
Duncan in Lycra?
Dear god.
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>Surpised you haven't been savaged by my pack of Goldies.
Meanwhile a nationwide study conducted by a group of experts(*) has concluded that the Goldie is the fifth most popular dog breed in the UK. The Boxer came out top.
In Basingstoke, Kath Gorick who owns Abbey Road Grooming said "The most popular dogs that come here is a Cockapoo or anything with a 'poo' in it."
(*) Casino experts MapleCasino.
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>>anything with a 'poo' in it."
>>
She didn't need the indefinite article there.
Boxer sounds unlikely as the most popular. And I don't think it is.
www.statista.com/statistics/915202/top-dog-breeds-by-registered-number-united-kingdom-uk/
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>Boxer sounds unlikely as the most popular. And I don't think it is.
You wanna bet on that?
www.basingstokegazette.co.uk/news/19805936.top-10-dog-breeds-2021-revealed/
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...I reckon that's like a cross between a Bulldog and a Shih Tzu.....
(BS)
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I concede. Your source is impeccable.
So they didn't actually research the most popular dog, but the most popular searches on the words that happen to be dog names...
Years from now in Basingstoke people will still be arguing at pub quizzes that the most popular dog is the boxer, not the French bulldog or the Labrador retriever.
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And here is an example of how Social Media can work:
youtu.be/qLKtpZlCWkk
Last edited by: Fullchat on Wed 22 Dec 21 at 12:16
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59791656
Article on the number of first and second jab given this week, big increases.
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There is some data emerging which suggests there is a reasonably high risk of myocarditis for men under 40 whop have had a Moderna jab. Abstract and link to to preprint here
www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.23.21268276v1
and what appears to be a quite reasonable interpretation here
vinayprasadmdmph.substack.com/p/uk-now-reports-myocarditis-stratified?justPublished=true
I have always said that although I am totally pro vaccine I could understand why younger people may be reluctant and this kind of effect is one reason why.
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>> and what appears to be a quite reasonable interpretation here
>>
>> vinayprasadmdmph.substack.com/p/uk-now-reports-myocarditis-stratified?justPublished=true
You need to check up on the author and how he makes his money and notoriety from inventing and preaching "medical Reversal". -
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>> There is some data emerging which suggests there is a reasonably high risk of myocarditis
>> for men under 40 whop have had a Moderna jab. Abstract and link to to
>> preprint here
On my reading the preprint refers to a small number of excess events.
How does that translate into a "reasonably high risk"?
What does it mean for my son - 27 - getting a booster next week?
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Article from today's Graun by by David Spiegelhalter and another on questions to ask when presented with stats:
www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2021/dec/26/what-questions-should-you-ask-when-you-hear-a-claim-based-on-data
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Point taken, my sloppy wording again, but in the texts accompanying the link which took me to the preprint (i.e. not the article written by the dodgy geezer Zero points out) there was a discussion by people who know much more than me that it is something to be concerned about.
The Guardian article is good, thanks.
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The biggest risk with Covid vaccines is that the development process has been rushed, and the testing process has been shortened, with many of the safeguards, both legal and practical, bypassed.
One is wise to weigh up your own personal covid risks, against the risk from vaccination. At my age with my risk profile and my current life expectancy its a no brainer - take what ever vaccine is available whenever it is.
If i were younger - much younger - I would think carefully about those vaccines using mRNA techniques, its a relatively new science. Putting myself back 40/50 odd years, I would probably still go for it, I'm sure I had a much riskier lifestyle back then anyway.
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Back in the day, in my late teens and early twenties, my social life was one long merry go round....every evening after work playing squash and 5 a side during the winter months, always followed by the pub.
Summer evenings outside climbing or cricket practice. Always followed by the pub.
Alternate summer weekends away...Snowdonia or the Lakes.
Always Friday & Saturday nights in the pub...
I like to think I’d have taken every vaccination going
I realise the drinking culture for ‘young’ people has changed over the decades, which is just as well.
These days I prefer to drink in the late afternoon, away from the evening workers...as an aside I had a walk on Christmas Eve, went to my local at 4pm in my muddy boots, and the place only had 3 other drinkers. Left at 6:30 when people in their finery began arriving and customer numbers reached double figures... by all accounts it got really busy with standing room only.
Think I’ll stick to my new regime.
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>What does it mean for my son - 27 - getting a booster next week?
Moderna is likely off the list due to the raised incidence of adverse effects for young males, so Biontec should be offered.
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I think my son (35) will get Moderna booster unless things change. I'm not unduly concerned on his behalf. Even if the myocarditis risk is greater than it would be with COVID_19, it's still low and lower than the overall risks from COVID_19.
As somebody said, a 100% increased risk isn't much if the risk is very small to start with. The risk of mRNA vaccine related myocarditis I have seen estimated at 0.3-5.0 per 100,000.
It's probably a more serious issue in terms of vaccine hesitancy than anything else.
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This Nature paper indicates the myocarditis risk from Covid to vastly exceed the risk from vaccinations in general and only a slightly raised risk for under 40s from the Moderna vaccination compared with Covid.
www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0
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I nnow there are many stories but some background: -
One of the sickest Covid patients home for Christmas
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london-59769787
Long Covid
'I have to choose between walking and talking'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-59584146
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80 year old triple jabbed friend of mine tested positive on Christmas Day. Asked him yesterday how he felt yesterday and he was still positive but reckoned he had had worse colds....busy isolating and drinking his way through the booze cupboard..
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>> Long Covid
>> 'I have to choose between walking and talking'
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-59584146
There's some hindsight involved in this, as of course there must be with nearly all these cases, but we're pretty sure that my wife had some post-COVID heart problems.
Last year we were told in December that the very nasty coughs that we both had in Feb-March 2020 had been COVID, based mainly I think on the 'choking' that my wife experienced at the time. Subsequently my wife developed heart arrhythmia which was taken sufficiently seriously for her to have walking ECG's and electrocardiography investigations. No obvious explanation was found but she was back to normal by the middle of this year.
Whatever anybody says, I'm convinced COVID is significantly riskier for individuals than a bad cold in most age groups and whilst exposure can't easily be avoided it is well worth mitigating with vaccines.
Myocarditis (heart muscle inflammation) is AFAIK caused directly by the immune response usually following a viral infection so whilst it is undesirable that a vaccine might cause it, perhaps it isn't a total surprise given its purpose is to trigger the immune response.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60050996
I'm sure she's not the first or the last to do this.
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I see, unsurprisingly, the government is likely to put off the requirement to get a jab for nhs staff another 6 months.
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Is this in the news somewhere??
As I've mentioned the cut off date is the 3rd of Feb and we are potentially going to lose just over 100 of our staff (nurses, doctors and back-office), although there is some limited scope for redeployment.
I do find it hard to put the mandatory vaccination message across to my staff just as we as a nation are coming out of restrictions, if they reverse or delay the decision then there will be lots of resentment from the many staff who feel they've been pressured into the jab (especially the last minute taker-uppers).
If true then tomorrow at work is going to be fun....
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>> Is this in the news somewhere??
It was mentioned repeatedly on Times Radio news bulletins this morning.
Rationale given was that the requirement would be changed so as to require three shots i.e. the booster would be added. As that should be some time after the second main dose the effect would be to 'kick the can down the road'.
However, it was also reported that the current timetable is set in Primary Legislation and that amending that would require a further act. Not clear whether getting a one or two clause bill to that effect enacted by both houses would be problem.
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Beeb are reporting it as "The deadline for health workers to have a Covid vaccination should be delayed to prevent staff shortages in England, the Royal College of GPs has said."
www.bbc.com/news/uk-60096735
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Rudedog, do the staff speak to you about why they don't want the jab? Is there much common in why they don't want it?
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The few I've spoken with have many of the same reasons mentioned by the public in the press...
Many feel it should be their decision alone and not be pushed into it (these staff are often the ones now taking it faced with loosing their job).
Female staff 'still' aren't convinced about the affect on their fertility.
Many have had bad reactions with other vaccines during childhood.
Then there are the ones under pressure by their own families/friends not to participate.
There are far more staff who have taken the two main jabs but still refuse the booster and will tell their colleges not to have it either!
Mandating a booster will be more of an issue in some ways...
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Don’t know if this has already been mentioned, but the daily death rate figures do not mention what percentage were vaccinated. Is there any way of finding these figures?
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Due to not being effective against Omicron.
firstwordpharma.com/story/5486109
UK authorised Regeneron as part of a cocktail last Aug (which i think is how he States use it). I wonder if we'll follow suit?
Eli/Lilley had already withdrawn bamlanivimab in the UK in Oct when they realised it wasn't much good, www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/withdrawal-letter/withdrawal-letter-bamlanivimab-etesevimab_.pdf
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There is a convoy of lots of trucks heading towards the Parliament in Ottawa.
The tweet I saw said
"Right now in Canada we have one of the biggest revolutions happening. Right now there’s 50,000 truckers and about 1.4 million people headed to the parliament in Ottawa. they’re going to stay there until Trudeau resigns, or they give us back all of our freedoms and rights."
EDIT: mobile.twitter.com/LeilaniDowding/status/1486281120849313792
Looks like it might be yesterday's news, and the truckers are demonstrating as you have to be vaccinated to cross the border.
www.reuters.com/world/americas/truckers-fighting-government-vaccine-mandate-march-canadian-capital-2022-01-24/
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 26 Jan 22 at 11:09
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The truckers are still disrupting in Ottawa.
www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60164561
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 30 Jan 22 at 16:59
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Just been invited to book in to have my 4th booster dose.
At this rate I'll be giving out a stronger 5G signal than the local O2 phone mast ;)
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...I hope that's the 2nd booster dose, otherwise I'm going to feel seriously neglected....
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Someone cleverer than me said we can do 3 or 4 but beyond that won't happen, because it is less safe or works less well or something.
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Doesn't seem to have done this bloke in India any harm.
He's had at least eight last year, a health official said.
Brahmdeo Mandal, 65, has claimed that he received 11 doses of the vaccine in Bihar state.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-59905339
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>> Someone cleverer than me said we can do 3 or 4 but beyond that won't
>> happen, because it is less safe or works less well or something.
>>
Have you got a source for that info. If not best not to pass on unsubstantiated claims about vaccinations. There’s plenty of misinformation out there already.
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It was a bit of a misquote (due to my poor memory) of this WHO statement which says, amongst other things
" With near- and medium-term supply of the available vaccines, the need for equity in access to vaccines across countries to achieve global public health goals, programmatic considerations including vaccine demand, and evolution of the virus, a vaccination strategy based on repeated booster doses of the original vaccine composition is unlikely to be appropriate or sustainable. "
www.who.int/news/item/11-01-2022-interim-statement-on-covid-19-vaccines-in-the-context-of-the-circulation-of-the-omicron-sars-cov-2-variant-from-the-who-technical-advisory-group-on-covid-19-vaccine-composition#.
It's probably groundless and certainly doesn't put any flesh onto what they mean by "appropriate or sustainable" but it probably isn't quite how I originally represented it.
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>> Someone cleverer than me said we can do 3 or 4 but beyond that won't
>> happen, because it is less safe or works less well or something.
So why do they keep giving flu jabs every year? - Which is where we are heading with Covid. Not sure how much they tweak the annual jab taking current strains into account.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 5 Feb 22 at 22:46
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If only someone would tell that pesky Omicron that it's game over... though even in some of the most backward places (like the US) it looks like deaths might just be turning a corner. :-)
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
New infections in other places are still on an upward trajectory though.
They change the formulation of the flu each year don't they, according to which strain they are predicting will be dominant. I suppose there's no reason they can't do that with the Covid jabs, and undoubtedly better stuff will come along in due course anyway, in the same way that there is nothing to say new nastier Covid variants won't also appear.
I read that Governments are doing much more forward planning and stockpiling so that they are better prepared in the event of another pandemic which can't be a bad thing.
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The Covid vaccine is very targeted at a certain strain and this is how it's achieved a very high (90%+) level of effectiveness.... compare that to the flu vaccine which is a guestimate looking back at the year before and making a prediction, this is why the flu vaccine varies so much in it's effectiveness and ranges from 30% to only around 60% in certain age groups.
I'd be much happier with a booster that was aimed at a specific strain.
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I've a feeling Synairgen will be making an announcement about their Phase 3 trial outcome tomorrow which will hopefully revolutionise treatments for Covid (and later for other respiratory illness).
I do have an interest in them... :-)
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>> I've a feeling Synairgen will be making an announcement about their Phase 3 trial outcome
>> tomorrow which will hopefully revolutionise treatments for Covid (and later for other respiratory illness).
>>
>> I do have an interest in them... :-)
Based on your track record we are all ruddy doomed then.
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>I've a feeling Synairgen will be making an announcement about their Phase 3 trial outcome
> tomorrow which will hopefully revolutionise treatments for Covid (and later for other respiratory illness).
> I do have an interest in them... :-)
>>Based on your track record we are all ruddy doomed then.
www.youinvest.co.uk/market-research/LSE%3ASNG
Hadn't looked at Synairgen for a while.
Ouch!
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I know, I'm still hurting.
They missed both primary endpoints on the SPRINTER trial. Over-achieved on some of the secondary ones though, much better than most existing /in use therapeutics.
Blame has been put on the trial design. But the fact is that by the time phase 3 came along there weren't enough properly ill people.
Also it seems that SoC for people in the right state to join the trial (in the UK at least) would have been given dexamethasone, a corticosteroid, which it's turning out could compromise it
( pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34473766/ ), though it has been paused. They are the only ones left at that stage, all the others have failed.
They've not been thrown off the ACTIv2 programme in the US so there is some hope that a recovery may happened at some point, and a company statement is awaited about whether they will engage in any platform trials. After all, interferon has been postulated time and time again to be beneficial for Covid (and other respiratory illnesses) by an ever-widening array of studies, and it has also been shown to be variant-agnostic.
Everyone was wrong footed, as in the weeks since New Year the com[any engaged a lot of new hires (onto staff, not contract), made a few key partnerships, had a completely redesigned web page. All of that contributed to the expectation that they had seen good things in the trial so it was a surprise when the actual result came through.
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>> Everyone was wrong footed, as in the weeks since New Year the com[any engaged a
>> lot of new hires (onto staff, not contract), made a few key partnerships, had a
>> completely redesigned web page. All of that contributed to the expectation that they had seen
>> good things in the trial
sounds exactly like Theranos and Elizabeth Holmes.
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The difference being that interferons are real and are already part of our immune system. Synairgen had a delivery mechanism (being patented) that delivered it directly down to the lungs.
The product works but the trial was of a design which didn't adequately prove it. The medi/tech people in the group I'm have been dissecting the figures and they think it was about 2 people short of being a major success. With a slightly different trial the outcome would be radically different.
Most are hoping a major pharmco will now take it on and bring it to market one way or another.
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Interferons have been around for 30+ years in pharmacology and they are a mixed bag in value, and often poorly tolerated.
SPRINTER trial data: www.evaluate.com/vantage/articles/news/trial-results-snippets/synairgens-sprinter-trial-pulls-short
2 more patients to make those p-scores drop below 0.05? BS.
It offers little if anything over the latest standard care and its longterm side-effects aren't evaluated at all (endpoints within 35 days only)
bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/interferon-beta.html#sideEffects
These are for parenteral (subcutaneous and intramuscular) delivery but I'd be wanting biiig trial data before letting rip into a cohort of 10s of 1000s of patients.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 14 Mar 22 at 22:05
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I probably misunderstood the 2 people bit but I do believe the trial was designed under a different, less effective, SoC regime which, had it not existed, SNG001 could easily have become the SoC. The figures in the table in your article are, after all, generally better than than standard care. Also with more Alpha/Delta patients the differences may have been more noticeable. Wveryone is saying now it's just a bad cold...
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Coronavirus Vaccine - Volume 12 - sooty123
