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Ongoing debate.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 24 Mar 21 at 12:20
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Isolation hotels. This is going to take some policing.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0bOFizy8MQ
Last edited by: Fullchat on Thu 4 Feb 21 at 23:58
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Friends of mine, who drove out to Spain a few days after me last October, have decided to drive back to the U.K. this weekend. They think if they delay they’ll get caught up in the hotel isolation scenario.
Personally I’d stay out there in their second home until end March and enjoy the daily outdoor lifestyle...they’re far too young for vaccinations being sub 60.
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Nothing against your friends but I do wish that when the govt decided to impose something they just did it right away, and stop people potentially bringing virus into the country. Same as lockdowns, why do they announce it in advance, so that people have time to have pre-lockdown parties?
I realise sometimes there are logistical challenges but they could keep it under wraps till it's ready to be implemented... "from midnight tonight..."
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I assume LL's friends will still be required to isolate for 10 days at home once they return.
The hotel quarantine regime seems to be aimed at arrivals from countries at high risk of mutated new variants of the virus - South American countries and South Africa? Portugal because of it's links to Brazil etc. Not sure why the fact that country A has a mutation means it's more likely than, say, France to develop another.
The hotels with inmates confined to their rooms and private security apparently controlling their comings and goings are going to be a legal minefield.
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>>
>> The hotels with inmates confined to their rooms and private security apparently controlling their comings
>> and goings are going to be a legal minefield.
>>
Probably the main reason it's been left this long. They don't want to deal with all the 'families imprisoned for flying' and all the sad compo faces on the front pages of the newspapers.
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>> I assume LL's friends will still be required to isolate for 10 days at home
>> once they return.
Yes. If necessary I’ll buy food for them and leave it on their doorstep, although neighbours have been collecting their post, checking the house inside etc.
Sod’s Law my 10 day quarantine (strictly adhered to I’ll have you know) ended on lockdown 3 day so my planned meal with beers, celebrating ‘freedom’ with friends at my local pub didn’t happen.
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I realise sometimes there are logistical challenges but they could keep it under wraps till
>> it's ready to be implemented... "from midnight tonight..."
>>
They did that for a few of the restrictions last year and got heavily criticised for dropping a bombshell last minute.
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>> Friends of mine, who drove out to Spain a few days after me last October,
>> have decided to drive back to the U.K. this weekend. They think if they delay
>> they’ll get caught up in the hotel isolation scenario.
>> Personally I’d stay out there in their second home until end March and enjoy the
>> daily outdoor lifestyle...they’re far too young for vaccinations being sub 60.
>>
I don't think it's ports that are covered only those that fly in. They could drive back whenever.
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>> I don't think it's ports that are covered only those that fly in. They could
>> drive back whenever.
Mentions on the radio this morning were of airport hotels being used.
Most of the affected countries are way too distant for driving to be an option though Portugal obviously is not. If one flew from Buenos Aires to Paris and was then driven back, or used the Eurostar, would you be required to go to a hotel?
Going back to LL's friends I wonder how the legalities work entering, or being in, France?
AIUI we're not allowed there now. There are exceptions though of which truck drivers are the obvious example.
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They’re catching the ferry this weekend from either Santander or Bilbao.
Quite why they choose to return to a damp grey world, or probably cold and white, is beyond me. Temps on the northern Costa B are currently highs around 18/19, feeling warmer in the sun, many days are cloudless...they’ve sufficient toys to keep busy mountain & road biking, paddle boarding, swimming laps across the bay in wet suits, climbing & scrambling.
All bars and restaurants are closed, but they own their own small place and it’s a far healthier lifestyle out there. I’d swap in an instant.
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It is not clear to me what the benefits of quarantining air travellers is. I assume ports and airfreight will remain for other supplies - food, goods, pharmaceuticals etc etc.
The numbers arriving at airports from hotspots is (I understand) around 1-2000 per day. Most will not be infected. Assuming as many as 5% are, this is approx 100 people a day.
Current cases in UK are 20000 per day. If a further 100 were added to this (0.5%) the impact would be all but unmeasurable.
The argument that it will stop the spread of mutated virus is just about plausible. This argument relies on (a) the virus is not already here, and (b) the vaccine is ineffective against it. Again a risk but very, very small.
Against these very small risks, given that resources are limited, it would be far better to deploy the effort towards enforcing self-isolation where it is currently being ignored.
The only positive side to hotel quarantine is that it helps restart the hospitality sector - and as most employees are probably on furlough the costs will be offest by reducing the furlough bill.
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>>It is not clear to me what the benefits of quarantining air travellers is
PR. Nothing more.
The lemmings cannot believe that the spread of Coronavirus is their responsibility/fault nor that they should have to put any effort in to fixing it and so, as is the way these days, they need a scapegoat.
International travel is their chosen scapegoat, mostly because they don't do it so it is neither their fault nor will it impact them. And of course it will require absolutely no effort from them.
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>> >>It is not clear to me what the benefits of quarantining air travellers is
>>
>> PR. Nothing more.
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>> The lemmings cannot believe that the spread of Coronavirus is their responsibility/fault nor that they
>> should have to put any effort in to fixing it and so, as is the
>> way these days, they need a scapegoat.
One of the reasons why mutated variants are country named. Seems stupid and spiteful to name a variant after a country it was first found in, when it probably muted the same way at the same time somewhere else anyway.
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It would be funnier if there weren't so many "Colin from Portsmouth"s around.
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I really need to stop laughing. :/
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/55970801
The government rules out vaccine passports.
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That's all very well. But surely that would be dictated by our place of destination?
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I cannot imagine someone turning up at the border here and saying that they don't need a vaccine passport because Boris said so.
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Anyone any idea how many countries have ID and how many do not?
Because as far as I can work out any country which has an ID system will also issue proof of vaccination. But in those countries where ID is seen as a recent utility bill that will not be done.
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Surely it will be no different to situations which now require proof of malaria, typhoid etc before travel.
Not that I have been anywhere like that in the last 40+ years. In those days it used to involve a stamp in the passport if I recall correctly.
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Don't we all now have biometric passports?
Surely the info could be updated on that?
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I think it's a certificate now, the yellow fever one is. Lasts 10 years I think.
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Got my jab booked for tomorrow afternoon, As far as I can work out, the centre I chose does Pfizer jabs in the morning, and AZ ones in the afternoon. Something to do with the temperature logistics.
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SWMBO has been yapping this morning with local friends whose family remains in Scotland.
Apparently a niece up there got a call yesterday morning asking if she could attend pdq as 30 people had not shown up for their slots. Out of how many, I don't know, but what is it with people???
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SWMBO and I had ours yesterday morning, AZ. They made me wait around for an extra fifteen minutes after, presumably because I'm on a blood thinning drug. I got home to find they'd sent me a yellow card email.
SWMBO didn't eat her dinner and went to bed early with a temperature, but felt better this morning.
I woke up feeling like I'd got a hangover, thick head, sneezing and snotty nose.
The news this morning is Portugal's not happy with the AZ vaccine - they're not the only ones!
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I was chatting with a retired pal a few days ago who normally at this time of year is overseas on a golfing holiday with retired doctor friends ( apparently they are all very thirsty golfers).
A few are helping out with the vaccination process, and word is that for 70yo+ folks in the BAME community, some 50% are currently avoiding the jab despite it being offered.
On the plus side at least they’re not ‘no shows’ so their vaccine dose is being allocated elsewhere...may account for my fit and healthy 72yo pal getting a phone call recently to attend at 24 hours notice.
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Booked in for first and second jabs.going for the first one this week. Message said it was Pfizer jab.
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>> I woke up feeling like I'd got a hangover, >>thick head, sneezing and snotty nose.
The only noticeable effects after my AZ jab was a slight headache and tiredness throughout the following day. Usually my arm will feel a tad sore after the annual flu jab, but not with the AZ.
Ditto Mrs CS.
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I had the Pfizer jab last Thursday afternoon; my arm was slightly tender such that I didn't want to sleep on that side for a couple of nights.
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>> The only noticeable effects after my AZ jab was a slight headache and tiredness throughout the following day.
>>
My OH had the same after effects. She's in a care home, so the jab was almost certainly AZ. A much younger NHS physiotherapist, who visited her, reported the same effects. There were no after effects from My Pfizer jab.
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You should be cock-a-hoop as it indicates the vaccine has triggered an immune response.
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>> Got my jab booked for tomorrow afternoon, As far as I can work out, the
>> centre I chose does Pfizer jabs in the morning, and AZ ones in the afternoon.
>> Something to do with the temperature logistics.
>>
Where are you going?
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On local radio this morning (BBC 3CR) a GP said: "Don't plan anything for the couple of days after the AZ vaccine".
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55992584
A report on home shopping, specifically ocado.
Have people on here done more online supermarket shopping in the past year, would you carry on doing it in the future?
I tried it early on in the lockdown and didn't really get on with it. Plus we shop a lot at supermarkets and places that don't really do online shopping.
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For groceries?
No. Gets me out the house and I can choose the best of the produce rather than have it picked for me.
And charge my car for free, with 3 hours' city centre parking thrown in.
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For the past 18 months or so we've had a delivery every Saturday at 14:00 with the week's stuff, with additional ones at Christmas.
We usually sign up to a plan with Tesco that means we don't pay for each delivery. With the plan we can also do a click and collect if we want, which sometimes suits as the threshold is lower. Been doing it on and off since 2014 so SWMBOs FB says.
Under the plan, I remember timing a Tesco delivery for 2 hours after our arrival time to a slightly remote holiday chalet in Cornwall years ago with our provisions for the week, also a delivery to an upper storey flat in Edinburgh where there was no lift during a Fringe visit about 4 years ago.
I love that I don't have any of the hassle of visiting the supermarket - the time it takes, busy roads, busy car parks, other shoppers, queueing at tills (though we use self scanning whenever we do go, which is usually much quicker), someone else lugs it around for me, and it's delivered to exactly where I want ( - at the moment, into the garage, where it remains untouched for three days minimum except frozen and fridge stuff which goes into the garage fridge freeze, or anything required more urgently which gets appropriate treatment before use!).
We have occasional problems with items, like the parsnips being the wrong size (SWMBO is a greengrocers daughter and fussy!), or once in a while an item becoming Not Available after order, and no suitable substitution supplied.
But we've also had bonuses e.g. I ordered a big box of dates the other week but they were OOS on the say so they substituted with 2 packs of Finest and matched the price, but it was still only half the weight so I mailed them and they refunded the lot. Also the cost of two bottles of prosecco was knocked off once because the driver was a few minutes late - he volunteered it, I didn't ask!!
I suppose I would say that as a result we tend to eat similar stuff all of the time so we may miss out on a spontaneous "treat". OTOH we do not do impulse buying, and I think we probably have less food waste as you have to plan ahead a bit more.
I do occasionally visit other places, especially Lidl, for stuff which I can't get on my order, though hardly ever in lockdown. And outside lockdown we go to Tesco sometimes just for a look round.
On the whole I like it and we will stick with it now.
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I signed up for online and delivery at the start of covid last year. Shopping was then unpleasant (queues, distancing, slow) and I was in vulnerable category.
Tesco is now preferred supplier after trying a few. Good record of delivering what was ordered and substitutions generally sensible. Rare for products to be delivered out of date or damaged - replacements and/or credit policy good.
I will not return to buying from store as I did previously, although an ocasional wander round to see new or different products will happen when things return to some normality.
I now see no point in the waste of time and energy that shopping for basic products entails - toilet rolls, cans of tomatoes, tuna, baked beans, cereals, dishclothes, most vegetables and fruit, non perishable items, trusted brands etc. The only exceptions will be some fresh meat, fish and vegetables.
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>> Have people on here done more online supermarket shopping in the past year, would you
>> carry on doing it in the future?
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We started having home deliveries with Ocado/Waitrose in March - I think? We switched to Sainsburys after a few weeks, can't remember why - cost was it?
We switched from Sainsburys to Tesco in May. Sainsburys Fruit & veg wasn't up to scratch and we have been with Tesco ever since. Weekly order and delivery, I have to remember to book another slot as soon as possible. 20 days is the max.
It works fine. £4.50 for delivery, plus 40p for the tray liners. Will we continue in the future? - very possibly/probably. We get a text on the day to give us a one hour window when the delivery will be.
I miss certain aspects of Lidl - yes honestly, the nearest store is only a year or two old. Aldi opened a new store just a few weeks back in Walton on Thames, I would like to get in there, too.
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>> I miss certain aspects of Lidl - yes honestly, the nearest store is only a
>> year or two old. Aldi opened a new store just a few weeks back in
>> Walton on Thames, I would like to get in there, too.
Wont catch me crossing the road from the M&S food hall there. I note Aldi is on the Spoons & Wilko side of the road.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 9 Feb 21 at 12:04
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We used Ocado home delivery for a while when it was Waitrose. Stopped on cost grounds towards the end of my time working in London. Frozen salary, rail fares increasing at RPI+ and the Damocles Sword of redundancy stopping me getting an Annual Ticket left us a bit tight, particularly as Mrs B's health limited her teaching opportunities.
Never went back after retirement as we'd developed an Aldi plus habit where the basics came from the discounter and other stuff from the big four - mostly Waitrose. In both Daventry and Towcester Aldi and Waitrose are close by each other so easy to combine.
During the pandemic Mrs B has found getting out of the house near daily pretty much essential for her Mental Health and shopping is part of that.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 9 Feb 21 at 12:20
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I don't think they are offering them at the moment but Tesco do a 6 month delivery plan which means you can choose any delivery time you want, or there are cheaper ones for more limited slot choices. I think it's about £50 - £60 for 6 months.
But the beauty is you can pay with Tesco vouchers so you only pay c. £20 in vouchers for it.
And you have a 28 day view which makes slots much easier to get... :-)
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Delivery is free with Waitrose, and the minimum order is only £40. You don’t have to have bags, and there’s no charge for crate liners or anything. The delivery guy just waits for you to decant the crates into bags, or in my case because I can empty a crate quicker than he can go up and down the drive, straight to the kitchen. Though sometimes they reverse up the drive, which messes with my plan! I wasn’t a regular user of supermarket delivery services, only really using it at Christmas. But I now have a delivery every 7/10 days, and rarely go into a supermarket at all. Living alone now the orders aren’t usually that high (I get the meat/fish/cheese from local suppliers) so I can’t imagine they make much money out of me...and the newspaper is free. I won’t pretend it’s the cheapest place to shop, but because impulse purchases are massively reduced I reckon it’s the way to go, and would be loath to give it up.
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Edited.
>> Delivery is free with Waitrose, ...................and the newspaper is free.
>>
I do twitch when I am told that something from Waitrose is "FREE". Because it isn't. You are paying for it, and you are paying through the nose for it.
A Youtuber who goes as Atomic Shrimp did a price comparison of all the major supermarkets, and here's a link
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRUPQPB4OgQ
On non-perishable items Aldi were cheapest at £4.56 and Waitrose were more than double at £9.24. Co-op were even dearer at £10.39.
For perishables Asda were cheapest at £6.67, Waitrose were dearest at £11.69
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>> Edited.
Yes, I know it’s not really free :)
But I don’t find Waitrose particularly expensive for the things I buy from them, though high value stuff like cheese, fish, meat comes from elsewhere anyway. That comparison is based on a basic shopping list, and I’m pretty sure much of what I buy from them isn’t on their list, or necessarily available.. For example I can’t even find paste in Sainsbury’s, and the Bon Maman ‘intense’ jams, which have less sugar, are also not widely available, so I’d be surprised if Lidl have them. Happy to be wrong though :)
On the actual basics, milk is 89p for a litre, soured cream £1.20 for 300ml, Blacktail free range large eggs £2 for 6, 500g of red seedless grapes £2.00 and bleach 60p - I’ve just checked tomorrow’s delivery. Is it really much cheaper elsewhere? Even if it was free I’d save just over £4 taking into account a ‘free’ paper !!
I guess an advantage of catching COVID (to bring this back on track) is that I wouldn’t be able to taste anything anyway so could just buy the cheapest of everything :p
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 10 Feb 21 at 13:25
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£40. I haven’t spent that much on a single food shop for decades ! Probably if I bought wine and spirits I could manage a £40 food shop, but I visit my local butcher once a week, £15 tops, M & S Simply Food may be £20 on my monthly shop there, but I normally shop at my local CooP twice a week when I walk past on the way home from a walk.
I’ve never had a food delivery, although once in a previous life we had a curry delivered for 4 people.
Suppose I’m not your normal food shopper.
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We have had groceries delivered every week since last March (Waitrose). Can't fault the service but actually miss going to the shop. Like looking at what I amd buying, especailly fresh foods and stuff from the deli counter. Been going their for years so know a lot of the staff. Normally had a a coffee in their cafe afterwards.
Buy a lot of stuff from small shops as well: the local baker , Greengrocery from Norwich Market etc. and have continued to use them throughout the crisis. They seem to be surviving OK
Once normality of as sort returns will definitely go back to proper shopping for all our food
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I've been doing Tesco 'click-n-collect' for over a year since SWMBO has a compromised immune system (she used to do the supermarket run). Find them excellent. Have tried others, ASDA have a very weird idea of suitable replacements. Iceland are also excellent, but have a limited range of products.
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Blimey, there we are unable to go anywhere and do anything by the power of smurfs police state, and you lot give up your only lawful excuse to get out and go somewhere.
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I do most of the food shopping and indeed most of the cooking. I like to go and look at the fresh produce, the meat and fish counters etc. I don't always know what I'm shopping for, but I'm open to suggestions driven by displays and or special offers. I'd miss going on a forage.
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>> Blimey, there we are unable to go anywhere and do anything by the power of
>> smurfs police state, and you lot give up your only lawful excuse to get out
>> and go somewhere.
>>
Not really true. You can go for a walk and always have been able to. I walk around 3 mile every day although looking outsid today I think I will give it a miss. A coupe of inches of snow of here
What you can do and what it prudent to do are two different things. In normal circumstances I quite enjoy a trip to the supermarket but its not so much fun when I am in an environment where I know could contract a deadly disease and at the same time knowing I dont have to be there.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Tue 9 Feb 21 at 15:50
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>> In normal circumstances I quite enjoy a trip to the supermarket
>>
>>
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I never thought I'd hear anybody say that. I hate it, in fact Mrs O'Reliant thankfully refuses to let me go with her because of my whining and trying urge her towards an empty checkout when she hasn't quite finished the shop.
Now toy shopping, the likes of Curry's, PC World and Halfords etc I'm in my element.
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The other day I was looking at the lightbulbs in Morrisons and found I was next to a woman who was not wearing a mask. Even worse, granny and granddaughter weren't either. Quickly decided I can do without the lightbulb. Got home to be told that someone, who I used to see across from my house virtually every day, had died in hospital from Covid.
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www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40225595.html
Interesting way to try and get around the rules to get a holiday.
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>> www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40225595.html
>>
>> Interesting way to try and get around the rules to get a holiday.
It sounds like made-up tabloid crap to me.
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www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000s7lr
Latest episode, a good long one covering the deaths statistic and UK's relative count, whether we are actually drinking more as a result of lockdown, and long Covid.
It seems that 'excess deaths' almost exactly matches the Covid deaths number week by week. I'm not totally happy with that as it makes we wonder where the collateral damage deaths are. Lost in the noise perhaps, which is possible when all the dry tinder has been accounted for which it can't be since it can't easily be measured).
Quite an interesting listen nonetheless. There was some commentary on the counting methods of various countries and mention of South America, although the countries mentioned by name did not include Chile unless I missed it.
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>> I'm not totally happy with that as it makes we wonder where the collateral damage deaths are.
And all the deaths-by-other-causes that don't happen because the person already died of COVID, if you see what I mean.
I'll have a listen.
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The drinking bit left a question too. Apparently the total booze volumes are down a bit, but of course that only tells you what is happening on average. I suspect the reality is that home drinkers haven't changed their habits much, and pub drinkers have gone two ways - either drinking much less because they aren't in the pub, or much more because it's cheaper at home!
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I just listened to it all, it's not very good, is it?
Quite fluffy and superficial with juvenile 'humorous' banter. Also, I guess the first task they undertook was to write down the impressions that they intended the report and presented information would give.
All in all, pretty amateurish and likely to fall into the gap between the tabloid audience and those that are actually and consistently paying attention to what is going on.
When did news and journalism become primarily about entertaining rater than informing?
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I like More or Less and I enjoyed that one but it wasn't as rigorous as it sometimes is.
That said there is so little care taken with numbers in general news reports that it is still an oasis in a desert of ignorance for me and I try not to miss it.
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I've not listened to it before. I'll try other episodes.
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Same bloke - Tim Harford - also does "How to Vaccinate the World".
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000s80d
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Myself and my drinking buddies are drinking far less during lockdown. I’m a social drinker anyway, preferring the ambience of drinking with friends in my local pubs, or beer gardens in summer. Always early doors...pre retirement I’d go directly to the pub after leaving my van on the drive, 3 pints, home after 90 minutes.
At home I struggle to finish two 500ml bottles, normally I’ll only have one bottle, alternate evenings. Occasionally we’ll buy a barrel from a local brewery, set up a hand pump in a ‘man shed’ and have a soirée, max of 3 people, bring your own glass and nibbles. Honesty box for take outs as word spreads of proper beer !
When the pubs reopen it’s going to get messy
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Well I have had my injection. The Astra Zeneca one. Quite quick and professionals and volunteers were very good
It was my first trip of more than a mile to the supermarket since well before Christmas. Next trip 8 May for the second jab. I can hardly wait.
Mrs Aston is now googling to see long she needs to keep me off the booze......
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>> Mrs Aston is now googling to see long she needs to keep me off the
>> booze......
>>
..there are no contra-indications on the leaflet I got given, so go for it..... ;-)
You can always blame tomorrow's headache on whichever of the two best matches Mrs A's mood.
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>>Well I have had my injection. The Astra Zeneca one.
Get the paracetamol ready.
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"Mrs Aston is now googling to see long she needs to keep me off the booze......"
There is some evidence that the consumption of alcohol may hinder the production of antibodies after vaccination. I decided not to risk it and avoided my usual evening glass of wine for three weeks after receiving my jab.
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>>"Mrs Aston is now googling to see long she needs to keep me off the booze......"
Isn't the virus killed by alcohol?.........HIC.
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...I was rather taken with the information on the accompanying "information for the recipient" for the AZ vaccine:
"This medicine contains a very small amount of alcohol (0.002mg of alcohol (ethanol) per dose of 0.5ml). This is not enough to cause any noticeable effects,
:-)
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>>This medicine contains a very small amount of alcohol
I wonder if that's going to cause problems for some religious types.
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>>I wonder if that's going to cause problems for some religious types
Religious types with strong anti-vaxx feelings, perhaps but they're no great loss.
Religions per se - no.
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I thought that Islam strictly forbade alcohol consumption to any degree?
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Hahaha. When I lived in Bradford, forty years ago, we went to a local Pakistani curry house twice a week. We got to know the owner, a Mr Shah. He was sozzled every time we ate there, a large pile of empty Colt 45 cans on the floor.
I told you it was a long time ago.
Another curry house I frequent doesn’t have a liquor licence but the owner is always happy to drink the beers we bring.
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Whilst most Pakistanis are Muslim the vast majority of Indians are not. 10% are Muslim whereas 80% are Hindu.
Or something like that.
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Very few Indians in Bradford. Mostly Pakistani community...I can’t understand why people say they’re going for an Indian when it’s patently not an Indian in Bradford.
I do love a good curry...my current favourites being two Nepali restaurants in Spain.
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>> I wonder if that's going to cause problems for some religious types.
It may be a problem for some adherents of Islam. In the last few years of my CS career I sat opposite a lady of Nigerian heritage who had become more adherent during her time in our office. By the time I arrived she wore a scarf and (usually colourful) wrap around garment*.
There are pictures a few years earlier of her bare headed in jeans and a T-shirt. New Imam, new rules.
Lovely lady who did a huge amount of charitable stuff for the Mosque etc. She would happily accompany us to a restaurant with a licence but not a pub. She once took a swig of the wrong drink at an office gathering and was mortified. Not happy about alcohol handwash and I can well believe that alcohol in other medical contexts would have worried her.
*She used to stuff her mobile phone inside her scarf and retain use of her hands, working on franking the post while bo**ocking her twin sons about playing around on the way home from school. The boss and I had some reservations but, at her leaving do, referred to the 'Hijab hands free' as one of the things we'd remember about her. It went down a treat; she guffawed with the rest of us.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 18 Feb 21 at 21:56
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More alcohol in a pickled onion, slice of bread, or glass of fruit juice.
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I'm not quite sure why you have to log in to listen to a bbc radio program, you can just listen to it on the radio so why not the online version.
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>> I'm not quite sure why you have to log in to listen to a bbc
>> radio program, you can just listen to it on the radio so why not the
>> online version.
Partly because of people like me who wish to listen from afar and partly because of the fact that unlike a broadcast radio signal online gives the opportunity to nail down the actual listener and gain information about them for later use/targetting.
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>>Anybody who fancies one, send me an email and I'll mail you a
>>Royal British Legion Chile facemask. They're good quality. But too
>>thick for summer here, to be honest, but perfect for the UK.
>>
>>£2 to RBL UK when you actually receive it (post can be dodgy
Those who requested one have now received one. If anybody elsewants one in the future, then let me know, preferably by email.
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How much do a few cost to post please ? A few friends are ex forces, and I used to go door2door for the RBL in our village.
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>> How much do a few cost to post please ?
No cost. When you receive them you make a private donation to the RBL in the UK of whatever amount you are comfortable with.
You just need to email me a quantity and an address and I'll sort it out.
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My email address is in my profile.
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No email received as yet.
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> No email received as yet.
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You should have now.
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Nothing in junk, nothing in Inbox, but coincidentally just received an email from two other people from here so I know it's working ok.
Have you changed your mind? No problem if so, just easier to know.
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Strange. Clicked on your moniker, saw email address, clicked that, sent message early GMT. I’ll resend soonest.
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Failing that, send it to the mods for forwarding.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56158405
Well the plan is out there, I see various groups/sectors are (unsurprisingly) trying to get bumped up the list.
Seems a very steady unlocking to me.
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56158405
>>
>> Well the plan is out there, I see various groups/sectors are (unsurprisingly) trying to get
>> bumped up the list.
>> Seems a very steady unlocking to me.
Yay, I took a guess and a gamble last month, and booked a site for the Crossover camping Vehicle in Devon on 25th April thats going to be going ahead.
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Today my brother went to one of the big 5 banks in a West Yorkshire town. Despite notices about wearing a mask, unless medical conditions allow, none of the group of young Asian males wore a mask. Nobody said anything because there was an air of intimidation. Par for the course in that part of the world.
Hardly surprising that lots of their elderly relatives, many of whom appear overweight when you see them waddling around, succumb to Covid living in multi generational families.
It must be a ‘badge of honour’ thing not to wear a mask, rather like an Asbo on the sink estates.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56198750
A report about reduced train services particularly commuter services, seems reasonable to me. I can't think they'll be a huge increase in daily commuters any time soon. Network rail are looking at upto three years for numbers to get back to pre covid levels.
Out of curiosity, anyone on here commute by train?
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>> Out of curiosity, anyone on here commute by train?
Used to in various combinations of National Rail and Tube from 1979 up until 2013. Last 23 of those years from Northampton or Milton Keynes to Euston.
If I was still London based and required to attend the office I don't think there would be any sensible alternative to rail.
Not sure I could still tolerate doing it every day though.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 25 Feb 21 at 20:01
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First job was near St Pauls commuting from St Albans.
Trains dirty, overcrowded and expensive - this was 50 years ago but not that much has changed.
Never regretted moving to second and subsequent jobs, none of which involved commutiong on public transport.
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>>Commuting by train
Whilst not officially commuting, I did have to travel in to central London regularly by train to see clients. We ran the old style slam door trains well in to the 90s. I used to hate them.
We upgraded to modern trains in the early 2000s and the experience has improved.
It is still very expensive, more recently and before COVID, at least I could set my appointments a little later and get a slightly less crowded train. I doubt that will be possible if they cut services.
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I commuted from Essex to Victoria for quite a few years in the 70s/80s. I had quite a routine, aiming to finish particular crosswords by a particular station, fag breaks en route etc. ISTR it was 1h 10m door to door each way on a good day.
I thought I'd miss it when I changed to driving to work, and in some ways I did but I find driving and listening to Capital a whole lot more pleasurable, mostly.
But being officially designated as working from home from about 2000 (excepting when I was staying away for weeks on end on projects, which wasn't so bad mostly) was the best!
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In 1950 I had a school/college holiday job working on the Thames river steamers (I think there was one boat that hadn't been converted from steam to diesel, so it really was a steamer).
I would catch the 07. something from Whitton to Waterloo, walk from Waterloo to Westminster Pier to be there by 08.00. The boat (Kingwood, Viscount, Viscountess, Queen Elizabeth - some of them still going) would be "under" as it was called, which means on the pier at 10.00. Upstream to Hampton Court. "Nobbler" (running commentary) as it was called, going upstream, then pass the hat round, thank you very much sir, thank you madam, split amongst the crew.
I enjoyed it. Later I was transferred to Twickenham, I was instructed that because I was a 'Westminster hand', I had to claim the train fare from Waterloo to Twickenham - 'but I live in Twickenham'? 'That's the system son, you must claim it'!
Last edited by: Duncan on Fri 26 Feb 21 at 09:47
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Apart from one six month period when I had a twenty mile commute (which gave me a perfect excuse to buy a motorbike), I've always lived a ten minute pushbike ride from work. I'd take a car, or cadge a lift from SWMBO if it was raining.
In my last job, I'd often cross paths with a colleague who lived nearby who'd drive. We'd usually arrive around the same time. In the Winter I'd arrive warmer.
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>> Apart from one six month period when I had a twenty mile commute (which gave
>> me a perfect excuse to buy a motorbike), I've always lived a ten minute pushbike
>> ride from work. I'd take a car, or cadge a lift from SWMBO if it
>> was raining.
>> In my last job, I'd often cross paths with a colleague who lived nearby who'd
>> drive. We'd usually arrive around the same time. In the Winter I'd arrive warmer.
>>
Same employer I'm guessing?
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>>Same employer I'm guessing?
No.
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Commuting? Jeez
Hersham Surrey, Network South East to London Waterloo- Bond St by tube daily 1973 -1979
Various Ad Hoc buisiness trips by train 1989 - 1999
1999 - 2003 Daily 0736 South West Trains West Byfleet to London Waterloo / Moorgate by tube.
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8 mins traffic-free each way by car for 20 years.
Nightmare.
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5 min walk, currently. Likely to change to a 25-30 min commute by car (soonish), not looking forward to it!
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My very first permanent job was with the railway, and involved a 30 minute each-way commute by train, with a walk of some distance at either end.
The train timetable nicely allowed me to arrive in the office just before designated start time.
I had strangely ambivalent feelings about late-running trains; very relaxed going in in the mornings, where any lateness was both in company time and down to the company; late-running in the evening, however, invoked an entirely different response. ;-)
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When working in retail I always needed a van, and I think pootling along in a higher driving position eased the commute. 5:30 starts to a wholesaler twice a week were never a problem as the roads were quiet at that time...took around 90 minutes.
My normal commute took an hour in the morning to each of 3 locations...evenings, leaving at 5:30, closer to 90 minutes. Bad weather, snow and ice, I worked late and treated myself to a local B & B.
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>> I had strangely ambivalent feelings about late-running trains; very relaxed going in in the mornings,
>> where any lateness was both in company time and down to the company; late-running in
>> the evening, however, invoked an entirely different response. ;-)
Which reminds me Reggie, they have started a rerun of your rise and fall on the tele........
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This is quite interesting. (infection rates & vaccination take up)
But it does rather point to socio-economic and educational issues more than anything linked to DNA/biology issues.
On the subject of vaccination therefore I think they should have stuck to the socio-economic reasons and given the race a miss..
A seperate, though absolutely important, point is why race & poverty / lifestyle / health issues overlap which would be better discussed separately.
www.bbc.com/news/health-56162075
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My doctor, Guillermo Solar Oyanedel, changed my life. After many years of struggling with persistent lung problems he finally got me onto a regime which made things so much better.
Such a very good man, and so very kind. He got me through three bouts of pneumonia as well as so many other implications. He always cared and always had time to talk. He and the regime he introduced moved me from monthly necessary hospital visits to routine annual check-ups
A very good man who, despite being in private practice, volunteered in the poorer parts of Santiago. He has had to cancel on me a couple of times through being quarantined from COVID-19 scares when his patients got sick or died.
I have been trying to book my annual check up and his cell phone has gone unanswered. Now I have just found that he has died from COVID-19. One of 20 doctors who have died here.
I don't think I have ever been affected so much by the death of someone not family.
RIP Guillermo.
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>>RIP Guillermo
Even more frustrating that he was likely only weeks from a vaccine that appears to hugely reduce the risk of death.
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Blessed are the Medics. Mrs RP was telling me about a retired GP who has volunteered to come in to help with delivering vaccines, would I do that if I was thus qualified ? Not too sure. My niece is a consultant at a Cardiff Hospital, has worked long hours under huge pressure, was prevented from coming to work on a number of occasions...not the only ones I'm sure.
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My mental nurse daughter is "acting up" in a more senior role at the moment and was put "in charge" of a single stream vaccine clinic in Birmingham yesterday. She said it was hard work but she enjoyed it. (She is qualified to give jabs, inc Covid, though that wasn't her role yesterday).
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Mrs RP does the admin for the surgery at the small venue they use. She says there is little if any wastage, if people don't turn up (very few don't) the surgery is efficiently calling in others that live nearby. I get mine on Saturday morning (Group 7)
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>> My doctor, Guillermo Solar Oyanedel, changed my life.
Just noticed this Mark.
Sorry to hear about this and I can totally empathise.
We knew a lovely lady, who became our friend through our children's education, passed away suddenly a few years ago.
We were talking to her literally the weekend before to make arrangements to meet up for a coffee.
Hit us and everyone who knew her like a brick.
I truly believe it says plenty of good things about that persons character when others are saddened by their sad passing.
On a more positive note, I am a better person for having known her and from your initial comments I suspect your friend had the same impact on you.
Best wishes, Zippy.
Last edited by: zippy on Thu 11 Mar 21 at 17:53
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This world contains some very "special" people.
"After record COVID-19 deaths, Bolsonaro tells Brazilians to stop 'whining'"
www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brazil-idUSKBN2AX114
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-56342303
I see Brazil is in the news again due to the health care system being in near collapse. Countries in Europe such as Greece, Hungary and Poland are reporting big increases in numbers infected.
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Maybe summer will come to the rescue in Europe. I was rather assuming it would, so I was surprised at Whitty's and Vallance's caution. Concerned too because they have a lot more knowledge than I do. Although I would also expect them to be prudent, or the same reason that Michael Fish stopping being optimistic about hurricanes.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXxEhCXndV4
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>> Maybe summer will come to the rescue in Europe. I was rather assuming it would,
>> so I was surprised at Whitty's and Vallance's caution.
The biggest fear at the moment is variants, Variants that existing vaccines dont deal with without time consuming tweaking. All the UKs eggs are, and always have been, in the vaccinate it away basket. Ok Sure we will and have developed our own variants, but keeping the depth of the gene pool down will limit variants, and thats achieved by limiting travel.
I am always amazed by the airline industry, demanding that restrictions be lifted, when they were responsible for the spread in the first place.
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I’m alright Jack. Got my new sleeping bag to take to Wales.
Just need a car to get there now....or even be allowed to visit.
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YOu need a crossover camping vehicle.
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>> I’m alright Jack. Got my new sleeping bag to take to Wales.
>> Just need a car to get there now....or even be allowed to visit.
>>
At three hundred and sixty odd quid, I am surprised the thing can't drive you there itself!
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"I am always amazed by the airline industry, demanding that restrictions be lifted, when they were responsible for the spread in the first place."
As I said many volumes ago, when I likened the the airline industry being to coronavirus, what the combine harvester was to Tilletia caries in wheat.
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>>www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-56342303
>>
>>I see Brazil is in the news again due to the health care system being in near collapse.
Brazil is a basket case without doubt. But reading the report it says;
"More than 80% of intensive care unit beds are occupied in the capitals of 25 of Brazil's 27 states, Fiocruz said"
Isn't that the same as "almost 20% of ICU beds are still available"? Which whilst undoubtedly grim, isn't quite the same message.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 10 Mar 21 at 14:55
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That's true, I did read that. I read between the lines and assumed* that it was the system overall, ie people that need help but not ICU.
*Dangerous I know.
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I think the biggest thing about Brazil is that it is total chaos. Mixed messages mostly because of the clown that is their President, huge amounts of people in favelas (unofficial shanty towns) and a pretty crap health system which is s*** at the best of times.
The whole country is corrupt so restricting the vaccine to people who need it is hopeless. The vaccine will be given to those who need it and those who can bribe for it and not necessarily in that order.
It's a country where I don't see the vaccine making a difference until a very high percentage of people are vaccinated since you certainly cannot count on the principle of 'vulnerable first'.
And with it running rife in cramped and heavily populated areas, mutations are absolutely inevitable.
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>> I think the biggest thing about Brazil is that it is total chaos.
Now or in general?
And with it running rife in cramped and heavily populated areas, mutations are absolutely inevitable.
>>
The news reported it is a giant open air lab for mutations.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56340161
Bit more on the situation in Central Europe.
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>> >> I think the biggest thing about Brazil is that it is total chaos.
>>
>> Now or in general?
I like Brazil very much, and I like the people very much. Sao Paulo is probably my favourite city in the world. But it is corrupt and dangerous. *Really* corrupt and *really* dangerous.
It's fine for a holiday, because one can be careful. I believe Peter had a great time in Rio. The danger comes when you live there and have to deal with reality, day to day living and the infrastructure.
Anything is possible, if you pay for it. I have escaped traffic tickets, got official documents, even renewed my residency by paying. It's difficult to explain how deep seated the corruption is.
There's also a massive, massive gap between the have, the have a bit, and the have nothing. Life in a favela is indescribably awful.
The health system cannot cope and in any case the funds are lacking. People dodge taxation which is low anyway and what is collected somehow either gets lost on the way or is mis-spent with contractors who charge way over the top but paid to get the contract.
So always and generally chaos.
Bolsonaro is a clown, and a dangerous one at that. Telling people to ignore the "little flu" and to stop being a "whining country". There's no national leadership and nobody to enforce national rules. Some of the State Governors are doing their best but are unsupported.
The police are corrupt and in any case Brazil if a b***** big place with a lot of people who move about and listen to no rules. Remember, Brazil hasn't even managed to stop illegal logging in the Amazon by it's own major companies. Or indeed international companies who have bribed their way in.
Utter chaos.
>>>> And with it running rife in cramped and heavily populated areas, mutations are
>>>> absolutely inevitable.
>>>>
>>
>> The news reported it is a giant open air lab for mutations.
See this picture....
www.alamy.com/stock-photo-rocinha-the-largest-favela-slum-in-rio-de-janeiro-brazil-20988957.html
You're looking at the home of more than 200,000 people living without proper sanitation, health care or rule of law. Not that there are official records. It is controlled by organised crime.
I've been deep into Rocinha, it is one scary f.place and I would never go back. Yet my daughter was born about 4 miles from there in the best hospital in Rio and is next to one of the wealthiest areas in Sao Conrado - the beach my dogs and daughters used to play on.
This picture is looking over the top of Rocinha at Sao Conrado. You cannot imagine the difference in living conditions. They are held apart by the highway.
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rocinha_-_S%C3%A3o_Conrado.jpg
[If you're interested enough mundoreal.org/about/about-rocinha ]
How are you going to run a vaccination program in there when anyone of them would kill you for your vaccine supplies so that they can sell them at a premium?
On what planet could we expect them to indulge in distancing or isolation?
And that's in Rio. Imagine how people live elsewhere!
The country is a basket case. But if you have money, then you can pay to never see the grotty side.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 10 Mar 21 at 15:56
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Thanks for that, interesting. I can't say I know much about the slums of Brazil, it's not really something that is on the tv much in the UK or anything to do with Central or South America.
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Ok here is a small interesting snippet. A family member (not my side never met the bloke) has died. Ex miner has been housebound with emphysema for 18 months, that with congestive heart failure did for him. Daughter and two sons were care givers, death was expected, and verified by family doctor -remotely in some way it seems
Upon going to pick up the death certificate it seems covid was added as a contributory factor, and carers (only people to have seen him for the last 21 days) had to get covid tests - all negative.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 10 Mar 21 at 16:45
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It begs the question, is there any evidence to substantiate that. Any positive tests in the preceding 28 days?
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>> It begs the question, is there any evidence to substantiate that. Any positive tests in
>> the preceding 28 days?
No test of any kind for patient or carers pre death.
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>> Upon going to pick up the death certificate it seems covid was added as a
>> contributory factor, and carers (only people to have seen him for the last 21 days)
>> had to get covid tests - all negative.
When was he last seen by a Doctor before he died?
Genuinely puzzled as to how 'life extinct' can be judged remotely. While it was pretty obvious my Mother was dead in her hospital side ward the doctor went all over with a stethoscope and shining lights in her eyes before signing the chitty.
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>> When was he last seen by a Doctor before he died?
three weeks,
>> Genuinely puzzled as to how 'life extinct' can be judged remotely. While it was pretty
>> obvious my Mother was dead in her hospital side ward the doctor went all over
>> with a stethoscope and shining lights in her eyes before signing the chitty.
Apparently it now can now be done remotely by a doctor if he has knowledge of the patient and the carer. It was news to me too.
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My understanding is that Doctors, nurses or suitably trained ambulance clinicians should confirm that death has taken place and before a body is removed.
Only a Doctor can issue a formal death certificate. The Doctor does not have to attend providing that death has been confirmed.A death certificate may be issued by a Doctor who has provided care during the last illness and who has seen the deceased within 14 days of death.
Back in the day you would normally be met by an ambulance crew who would conform death and pass over a print out of a flat line from a heart monitor.
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"Upon going to pick up the death certificate it seems covid was added as a contributory factor, and carers (only people to have seen him for the last 21 days) had to get covid tests - all negative. "
It has been said since last March that this is why our 'covid death' figures are so high. Making international comparisons is just not valid ....... but that doesn't stop people doing it.
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>>Upon going to pick up the death certificate it seems covid was added as a contributory factor, and carers (only people to have seen him for the last 21 days) had to get covid tests - all negative.
I think the ones on the official "dead FROM COVID" list are those who have had a positive COVID-19 test within the 28 days before their death.
There may well be other stats which include "dead with COVID", but I don't think they're used for comparisons.
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>> There may well be other stats which include "dead with COVID", but I don't think
>> they're used for comparisons.
As you say the headline stat now is those who died in the 28 days following a positive test.
I think in the early stages of the pandemic the broadcast stat also referenced those where Covid was suspected and may have been contributory. The availability of tests was an issue last Spring and inhibited confirmation of the disease.
I assume the certifying Doc here suspects that Covid may have been present and contributed to the progression from steady state Emphysema to heart failure.
Bottom line is that the way to find out is to ask a question of the Doctor.
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Brazil suffered badly in the 1918 Pandemic....you think (like the UK) they would have learnt something from it.
I may have recommended this book before Pale Rider by Laura Spinney...published in 2017. Well worth a read on how the '18 Pandemic was handled without her making reference to the latest one (obviously) which makes it an even better read.
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Bit more on the figures for death rates for last year.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56456312
Not much info, I assume they'll add to later on in the day.
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Anyone still planning on a summer holiday abroad this year?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56467813
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>> Anyone still planning on a summer holiday abroad this year?
Contemplating rather than planning. If possible it will be caravan/France so no issue with a wait/see strategy. Ferries and sites can be booked on the hoof.
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I wonder how many people will have a holiday abroad cancelled for a second year?
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Well last year managed 6 weeks abroad in Tenerife , a week in March just before lockdown and 5 weeks in November covering all of second lockdown.
I would hope that our normal 3 weeks in Tenerife in November will be on still, no flight bookings being made at the moment though.
Friends have a house in France which may be a possibility.
Looking to alternatives in UK either friends/relatives cottages in Pembrokeshire and/or Northumberland when restrictions ease.
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Nah they should be banned, there is no need for foreign leisure travel, it looks like it carries an unacceptable risk to the country, and the UK economy could do with the money.
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I wonder if they'll go that far, I suspect not.
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>> Nah they should be banned, there is no need for foreign leisure travel, it looks
>> like it carries an unacceptable risk to the country, and the UK economy could do
>> with the money.
I take your point but there's a significant part of the UK economy - airlines, airports, tour operators - that relies on foreign travel. Neither is there the capacity there once was in the UK/Common Travel Area. Was it you who pointed out how many of Jersey's hotels were now offices?
Some people who booked in a rush after the 'roadmap' was published are likley to find themselves denied. Who knows what the situation will be by, say, late JUne. Could the travel corridors be re-established?
I shall, as above, wait and see.
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Myself and pals hope to be amongst the first to cross the Scottish border 28 April. Final 70 odd miles of the Southern Upland Way to Cockburnspath then a further 30 along the Berwickshire Coast Path.
Late May same pals to Abergavenny. One week in a cottage to walk in Welsh Wales.
Late June into July hope to fly to Jersey. Walk the Coast Path. Ferry to Guernsey. Walk the cp. fly home.
Trust me the logistics of organising all this has been a nightmare when a group is involved. 4 different accommodations in Scotland, organising taxi pick ups at the end of a long days walk, bus timetables, etc etc.
Hope to drive out to Spain through France and the Picos de Europa mid September until mid December. Thats 90 days. If I can’t return in January then it’s the Southern Hemisphere for me.
We can but dream. And I still need a replacement for Barbie...
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Their problem is that they have vaccinated down to age 60 but the infections are in the 25 - 45 age group. Almost entirely because last month was holiday month and so en masse they ignored the rules.
And they have not closed the border with Brazil.
Chile has a great vaccination infrastructure but other than that they'd fundamentally thick as s*** and the idea that anybody would take a precaution to help anybody else is totally alien to them.
We'll be very lucky if we're not in full quarantine soon. They announce changes to the rules on Tuesdays and Thursdays and they take effect on Thursdays and Saturdays.
I am really hoping they'll announce it on Thursday because that means we'll get to watch France Scotland in the pub on Friday. But I am not hopeful.
Right now would be a very bad time to need hospitalisation for any reason.
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Oh, and to give you an idea how stupid they are, we're currently locked down at the weekends. Yesterday more than 2 million permissions to leave home were given. More than 10% of the population.
Never mind how many either broke the rules or live outside the cities where nobody cares.
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Here's the updated situation, It's pretty much all graphics so the language should be no issue for you.
www.emol.com/especiales/2020/internacional/coronavirus/casos-chile.asp
Amongst other things you'll see that though RM (Sangiago & surroundings) has the dramatically largest amount of new cases, 2,500 ish, it has a population of 7m in a country of 19m so it is perhaps slight below the rest of the country. But worryingly it has by far the highest growth.
In the last 4 weeks, holiday season ended and people returned to the city, schools restarted and everybody stopped worrying about precautions because of all the media attention on how well vaccination was going.
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Coronavirus - Volume 33 - Fullchat
