If one wished to remove someone's access to their own bank account, to their own credit cards and to other similar financial instruments because they were no longer really in control of life and were prone to giving everything away to the next Prince of Nigeria or Microsoft Virus Detection service that telephoned or emailed them, how would one go about that in a situation where the person was not going to be cooperative?
Ditto selling the car that is in their name and removing their driving licence to stop them driving.- Again not likely to be cooperative.
It is a medical condition - Alzheimer's.
A friend of mine has this problem with his Father, and I am likely to have it with my Mother in the future.
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If they are sectioned , do they have to be detained in hospital? Surely there must be some halfway stage?
www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs-services/mental-health-services/mental-health-act/
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>>do they have to be detained in hospital?
In both cases they live with their spouses, we wouldn't want that.
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>> If one wished to remove someone's access to their own bank account, to their own
>> credit cards and to other similar financial instruments because they were no longer really in
>> control of life and were prone to giving everything away to the next Prince of
>> Nigeria or Microsoft Virus Detection service that telephoned or emailed them, how would one go
>> about that in a situation where the person was not going to be cooperative?
You cant do it, you have to put them under the protection of the court, Brompy will know the process, but it starts with a medical and psychiatric assessment.
>> Ditto selling the car
you'll need POA to do that
that is in their name and removing their driving licence to
>> stop them driving.- Again not likely to be cooperative.
Doctor can write to DVLA
>> A friend of mine has this problem with his Father, and I am likely to
>> have it with my Mother in the future.
I was with the doctor when she told her she could not drive any more. My mother denied it happened, so I stole her car keys. The fall out from that was not a happy time.
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>> Ditto selling the car
>
>you'll need POA to do that
He's got that, I'll need to sort it out. Didn't occur to me it would be that easy.
>> stop them driving.- Again not likely to be cooperative.
>
>Doctor can write to DVLA
Good tip.
>>The fall out from that was not a happy time.
I fear this.
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If they are sufficiently compos mentis they can arrange (but only with their agreement) a power of attorney (of varying types).
I suspect the case(s) you highlight is beyond that point, and I think the only route then is through the Court of Protection (appointing a deputy).
I've been there, but only in the former case (which would have been the latter case if left somewhat longer).
I suspect Bromp may be reasonably placed to advise.
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>>
>> I suspect Bromp may be reasonably placed to advise.
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Or your local CAB. They are, normally, very good.
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>>
>> Or your local CAB. They are, normally, very good.
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.......Particularly the one in Santiago... (though Valparaiso is quite good too).
;-)
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>>If they are sufficiently compos mentis they can arrange (but only with their agreement) a >>power of attorney (of varying types).
The problem is more preventing them doing stuff than it is enabling us.
>>I suspect Bromp may be reasonably placed to advise.
Hopefully.
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I would think getting Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA) in place pronto whilst they still have some mental capacity.
However that does not stop them succumbing to all that is in the outside world tying to deceive them until they have are deemed not to have Mental Capacity.
I await Bromp's input.
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When I contacted Natwest about my mother's account (I had POA already) it was a case of filling in a form in branch and they just asked whether the account was to become joint, so we would both have to authorise everything, or just me going forward.
I chose just me, and have run it without a hitch ever since. Same happened with everything else financial of hers. Tell them you have POA, send it to them, done.
But i didnt do it until she was incapable of even understanding what a cheque was, never mind what was written on it.
Before that we took her cheque book away ( banks dont issue those any more, love, sorry) and my sister got her some pocket money each week, which every so often my sister would then sweep back up from the house and put back in the bank.
All a bit stressful but worked for us.
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Is there a Lasting Power of Attorney for Property and Financial affairs registered with the Office of the Public Guardian or alternatively an Enduring Power of Attorney under the rules pre 2007?
If not and the parent's capacity is already diminished then as above appointment of a Deputy may be needed.
Here's a primer to get started:
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/looking-after-people/managing-affairs-for-someone-else/
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 5 Nov 20 at 08:02
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MIL's driving was obviously getting dangerous, although she wouldn't accept it. Came to a head when she managed to wedge her car diagonally in the garage.
There was back-up plan agreed with the family, to leave the car's lights on so the battery would be flat when she wanted it. It never came to that.
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>> There was back-up plan agreed with the family, to leave the car's lights on so
>> the battery would be flat when she wanted it. It never came to that.
Some modern cars automatically turn them off after a period of time to prevent a flat battery. Not sure how far back, but my 2013 Astra has this feature. My old 2006 Vectra would automatically turn off the boot, glovebox, and interior lights after 5 mins. Not sure if it also did the headlights as well though.
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>>Here's a primer to get started:
Thank you.
If there is the appropriate power of attorney in place, can one deny the subject access to their own financial affairs and prevent them entering into agreements?
The two main goals are to stop them giving away money by credit card, by bank transfer or simply by handing over the details to anyone who asks. My friends Father recently gave away a 4 figure sum and later paid a sizeable bill three times.
Also to prevent them driving which means both disposal of the car and cancelling the driving licence.
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>> If there is the appropriate power of attorney in place, can one deny the subject
>> access to their own financial affairs and prevent them entering into agreements?
Saga have produced a useful 'How To' guide on using a Lasting Power of Attorney. The principles for the old style Enduring Power of Attorney requires that it be registered (not sure whether with the Court of Protection or the Public Guardian) when the donor is or appears to be losing capacity.
www.saga.co.uk/magazine/money/personal-finance/family/how-to-use-a-power-of-attorney
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My dear old mum, now 95, started to go downhill some years ago and we recognised things weren’t quite right. There was a family meeting with her GP, a man about my age. He said with great sincerity, learn from my experience and get an LPA in place now! The best advice for a long time. Obviously no help in the OP’s case, but if an issue for you and yours then JFDI now, do not delay.
There was a realisation that driving was not a good idea when mum went out in the car with her best friend, who she had known since childhood and had been bridesmaids for each other half a century plus ago. The car came back k with scrapes and marks down the side, neither had any recollection of any problem. The car then broke down apparently and it took forever to fix it, by which time we had all moved on and no driving was past the emotional stage and accepted.
Now her bungalow is visited by carers three times a day, with family whenever. The whole place is wired with CCTV, several of us can click in and check on her. Interestingly things we might have put down to her - open doors etc - have turned out to be carers etc, not quite the batty old dear after all!
There is a slow downhill trend and issues continue to arise. Right now she has lost track of time and will happily watch tv, at full volume being deafish, all night. At 7am the other morning I saw her on the cctv watching Heartbeat having been up all night. We are currently chewing on how we encourage her to get to bed at a sensible time and maintain a reasonable daily cycle with consequences for meals, bodily functions etc.
Whatever, the great thing is she is happy, and at 95 that is important to those of us who worry about her.
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Just thinking about this as I had full control over my late father's bank accounts although I did not need to stop him from accessing them.
If you were in this position you could claim that the card needed to authorise payments was lost. Apply for a new one and then hide it. Or if there is POA, visit the bank with a letter from the doctor and say that you want their access stopped.
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Help with elderly relative? - Duncan
