Visited Leeds last night leaving around 22.30. Have become reasonable re acquainted with Leeds the last 3 years due to Junior FC studying there.
However it has multiple junctions, traffic lights and roundabouts in quite a small area requiring constant lane changing with an eye on the 'Nav' as well to confirm route.
What became apparent was the aggressive manner of driving of Taxis. There is no doubt that they are very familiar with the routes and area as they should be. You could guarantee at each and every turn there was one hanging on either side of the rear, a lot of times in the blindspots of the car, only to willing to lean on the horn at every opportunity as I picked my way along my route.
However travelling M62 East it was refreshingly quiet after a diversion until, travelling in lane 1 I reached an 'on slip'. Due to foliage between the main carriageway and slip road I was not aware of a van intending to join the motorway until it had accelerated from behind the foliage and was now alongside me, travelling at the same speed, and leaning on the horn.
Now my presumption was that he/she expected me to move out into lane 2 so that there journey was not impeded. I'm so sorry.
However the devil in me decided to stay where I was forcing them to brake and then it started. Travelling close up behind me and alongside, blowing the horn, infront braking until they got bored. You see it so many times now on in car camera footage.
Now you may say that the aggression was the result of my behaviour, had it not been for the initial horn blowing I may have been more accommodating.
Driving has become far less pleasurable.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Fri 12 Oct 18 at 13:15
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These days you must keep a few things in mind when driving,
1. There is very little traffic enforcement, you would not get away with driving like that in a well policed country.
2. Many drivers in the UK learned to drive in countries with much lower driving standards.
3. All other drivers are homicidal lunatics.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 12 Oct 18 at 13:24
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And
4. If your ride a motorcycle everyone is out to kill you.
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Unknown and big town centers are always a problem for new visitors.
It is often too easy to be on the wrong lanes!
I think traffic planners live locally and they can't figure out how an outsider would find the lane marking/signalling - especially at night with heavy traffic and bad weather.
Often there are just too many road signs and marking. When they are monitored by cameras (for raking up revenue IMHO) I ended up spending more time to look for avoiding a fine rather than looking at road.
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There has been a significant increase in the levels of aggression and entitlement among drivers in recent years, in my opinion. I think there are 2 primary causes -
1. The extra performance capability of modern cars and the emphasis on performance in car marketing and choice results in people felling more impeded than they used to feel when their cars weren't as fast as the ones they have now
2. The higher levels of aggression in society in general, made easier in many ways by the internet although I think it would have happened anyway. Look at the arguments on here and look at the comments of forums / social media / online newspaper articles to see what I mean.
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Not sure where you live FC, but there are vastly different standards of road behaviour in different parts of this small island.
As many of you will know, I've spent much of my adult life to-ing and fro-ing the length and breadth of this country on a daily basis and to a lesser extent, but still fairly extensively, most other European countries.
By a measureable margin, the rudest and most unnecessarily aggressive drivers occupy a band of the country bounded to the south by a horizontal line just south of Birmingham and to the north by a line from Preston across to north of Leeds.
Can't imagine why but it's palpable when you regularly drive in these and other areas.
Chips on both shoulders for some reason.
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>>By a measureable margin, the rudest and most unnecessarily aggressive drivers occupy a band of the country bounded to the south by a horizontal line just south of Birmingham and to the north by a line from Preston across to north of Leeds. <<
The most aggressive drivers I have come across were in the Lake District by some margin.
I think rural Suffolk was notable for being rather easy going.
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"I think rural Suffolk was notable for being rather easy going."
The exception being Audi/BMW drivers who, I fear, are aggressive everywhere.
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>>I think traffic planners live locally and they can't figure out how an outsider would find the lane marking/signalling - especially at night with heavy traffic and bad weather.
It is easy to get the right info. Equip a stranger with a voice recorder and ask them to drive from A to B without Sat Nav and record their experience.
Hopefully you might get some improvements.
They have just resurface the local Scilly Isle Roundabouts at Esher and after many decades have added some improved lane markings.
Along the busy A27, used by many foreign visitors there are ( unless it has changed) A & E Hospital signs directing one into town and then nooooo more. Unacceptable !
I am sure we all know many others in our own area
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"and ask them to drive from A to B without Sat Nav"
And therein lies the answer to the problem. Alwasy use a satnav when driving in a strange town. Most people have one in their pocket in the form of google maps. Make a life a lot less fraught, like having someone who knows the area sitting next to you.
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>> And therein lies the answer to the problem. Alwasy use a satnav when driving in
>> a strange town. Most people have one in their pocket in the form of google
>> maps. Make a life a lot less fraught, like having someone who knows the area
>> sitting next to you.
I completely agree, and I use sat nav all the time, but there is a downside.
I used to pride myself on being able to go to a meeting in an unfamiliar city once, and then be instantly able to recall the route weeks or even months later if I revisited. 'Left by the bus stop, third exit off the roundabout and then right just past the post box' - that kind of thing. It just stuck after one trip. Since sat nav came along, that part of my brain seems to take longer to kick in. It takes a good few visits now to be able to recall a route in the way that just one visit was enough to do before.
Of course, it could be age and too many beers in the past few years :-)
Last edited by: DP on Fri 12 Oct 18 at 16:03
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Mrs RP drove us the 40 miles to Liverpool last night to an excellent gig at the Liverpool Phil. (Richard Thompson) - Road surface is the biggest enemy there - MX5 has an adequate Sat Nav which took us directly to the car park of choice ( seven blooming quid). Liverpool's OK to drive in and we found our way perfectly with no hassle. Run home was just over an hour which was great. I always get the impression the traffic lights in Liverpool are perfectly phased. No issues (apart from crap roads)
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>>Since sat nav came along, that part of my brain seems
>> to take longer to kick in. It takes a good few visits now to be
>> able to recall a route in the way that just one visit was enough to
>> do before.
>>
>>
" like having someone who knows the area sitting next to you. "
That's exactly it - if you have someone telling you where to turn you never remember the route.
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>> And
>>
>> 4. If your ride a motorcycle everyone is out to kill you. you are out to commit suicide.
>>
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Coming home from a family get-together near Nottingham recently I was testing the cruise control on Mrs H's car while Mrs H and younger son slept off the excesses of the night before. Lane 1 at 70mph and I see a car wanting to join from the slip road. I thought I was being accomodating by moving to lane 2; the road being quiet. Car joins lane 1 next to me. I don't want a race so I leave things as they are for a mile or two waiting for a chance to move left safely back to lane 1. I decide not to take a chance on him being able to see my indicator repeater and I add a couple of mph and move in front of him, still in lane 2. The other car keeps station with me, front bumper in line with my rear bumper. We continue like that fro another mile and we start to overhaul a truck, at which point my new friend floors it, undertakes me and moves to lane 2 to overtake the truck.
No, I've no idea either.
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Often when driving to visit my mum (so M56, M6, M5, M50, etc.) you have someone behind who wants to overtake. When it is possible to slot into a space in lane 2 they overtake and then immediately pull in front and slow down and you have to overtake them.
Some poor standards of driving in the UK if you ask me.
I am glad I listened to my brother and had a motorway lesson after passing my test. Things I was taught then still used today.
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For me it's the absolute impatience of drivers, they seem to have to get 'somewhere' as fast as possible even if it's just to the corner shop.
Also the unnecessary use of SUV's and all of the issues associated with them (car spaces not big enough, drivers so small that they can't even see over the wheel).
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Have you tried to reverse park or walk across a McD's car park with a drive through? Jeez its like Wacky Races.
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>> For me it's the absolute impatience of drivers,
So often someone behind sees you in a line of traffic and cannot make progress. So they take risks, undertake.... and maybe end up in front (I'd rather idiot risk takers in front).... and then they are in the line of slower cars. Idiot/risk takers.
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It seems obvious to me that traffic joining from a subsidiary road should give way to that on a main road. I think this priority should be marked by reminder road signs on motorway slip roads. The situation developing from a last-minute race should not be left to the discretion of drivers to deal with. The Highway Code does not cover the specific point except for a seeming in favour of such wrong-doers:
Section 125 slow down and hold back if a vehicle pulls out into your path at a junction. Allow it to get clear. Do not over-react by driving too close behind it.
Section 143 Do not...overtake ...when you would force another vehicle to swerve or slow down.
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Crystal clear!
Not barge your way in causing vehicles already on the motorway to brake or manouvre out of your way.
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Excellent, but not covered in my edition, where section 259 is concerned with dangerous goods. I will get the latest edition.
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It is a free for all at times out in the car.I still like driving have calmed down a lot.On the continent blowing your horn is part of the course.In the U.K you are attacked and revenge shall be taken.
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Up here we get two sorts of drivers, old doderers that have retired here from big cities, and still drive around at city speeds of 25-30 mph, on these roads you can't get passed them for miles! - then you get the rich second home owners from the cities that have never seen so little traffic, but still keep their city bullish behavior and and virtually try to shove you out out of their way. Our busiest road is the A590 which links to the M6 and some of the idiots from the South are unbelievable!
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How can you tell where drivers are from?
Do city drivers who potter around at 25 - 30 come from different cities than those who use bullish behaviour?
:-)
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How can you tell they are Suvverners?
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Vehicle reg prefixes are a fairly good indication as are bumper window stickers and caravans, might not be 100% accurate but good enough to chuck the blame at! ;-)
Last edited by: devonite on Sun 14 Oct 18 at 09:45
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>> Vehicle reg prefixes are a fairly good indication
My current car came from Newcastle - it's where the lease company get all the UK vehicles. Last one came from Milton Keynes. I don't think it's that good an indicator and once second hand it has much less use as an indicator.
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True! - but you have to blame something when they annoy you! ;-)))
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Well contrary to the experience of a lot on this thread, we travelled to here www.oxpasturehallhotel.com/ for a Golden Wedding celebration yesterday and back to the Fen this morning in the torrential rain.
I have to say we didn't encounter one incident of bad driving on either journey and all in all the standards were excellent.
Pat
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Admittedly I rarely drive in big cities but M1/M6/M40/M25 will be used in some combination going anywhere beyond local. See occasional acts of gross stupidity but on whole no real issues.
Currently in Southport in our caravan. Apart from brief section of stop start on M6 in South Staffs we had no problem whatsoever getting here. Similar lack if issues to and from my Daughter's wedding in Cornwall 6 weeks ago.
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>> Vehicle reg prefixes are a fairly good indication as are bumper window stickers and caravans,
>> might not be 100% accurate but good enough to chuck the blame at! ;-)
You can usually tell what the local one is - K predominates round here. Next door's though are usually W as she's got relatives in motor trade in Devon. Lots also buy via Car Shop and similar outfits who source vehicles all over the place.
Audi/VW, Mercedes and Peugeot though seem to register fleet and demonstrator vehicles on K area plates. If I wanted to be sure where car was from I'd look for corroboration. Issuing Post Office stamps on tax discs used to be good for that but nowadays it's down to window stickers.
Sometime around 1996/7 on the Isle of Harris we were engaged in conversation by somebody who spotted the Sainsbury Northampton Parent and Child Parking permit on our BX.
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My solicitor pal was previously based at an office in Bradford, and I refused to drive into that city. I’d park in Bingley and catch the train, such was the level of atrocious driving there.
I’ve just had the pleasure of three weeks daily driving on the Costa Blanca, albeit not in any cities, and for the most part there was no tailgating, aggressive driving, lots of courtesy shown to all cyclists, and if you hovered anywhere near a pedestrian crossing drivers would immediately stop to let you across.
And I only stalled the manual rental once...at the first toll booth after leaving the airport when i forgot you had a clutch pedal to depress !
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>> forgot you had a clutch pedal to depress !
I had the opposite problem when I first got he Auto, more than once when stopping I automatically went for the clutch and brake - ended up with both feet on the brake and almost put myself through the screen! ;-~)
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I use left foot braking with our CVT Jazz. I find it a help to be able to hover over the brake pedal while still using the go pedal.
I acclimatised to the appropriate force needed, (to overcome years of right foot braking memory), within a week or so,
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>>I use left foot braking with our CVT Jazz
I droved a brand-spanking new Jazz this week, nice little car. CVT too which behaved just like a torqie.
I didn't like the warning light plus beeper which nagged me every time I changed lanes though.
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Only Jazz I have driven was a manual one about 5 years ago.
I found the brake so over-servo'd it was hard to modulate it smoothly.
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>> I didn't like the warning light plus beeper which nagged me every time I changed
>> lanes though.
>>
The button to turn it off is near your right knee, along with the traction control and parking sensor buttons. I always have it switched off.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 14 Oct 18 at 17:14
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Missed the edit.
It only beeps if you don't signal when changing lanes.
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>>The button to turn it off is near your right knee, along with the traction control and parking sensor buttons. I always have it switched off.
Thanks, it was a loan car while my CRV was being serviced by the pain dealer.
Did they change the blocked pollen/cabin filter? ... did they hell.
>>It only beeps if you don't signal when changing lanes.
I musta bin doing a LOT of overtaking.
:o}
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 5 Sep 19 at 10:16
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>> I didn't like the warning light plus beeper which nagged me every time I changed
>> lanes though.
Had that on a Citroen C3 courtesy car last week. Drove me mad around town when it detected the bus lane markings and on Milton Keynes's roundabouts.
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I have lane assist on the Skoda. It's been set to active lane assist so it will actually steer to stay in lane when on (above 40mph or when traffic jam assist enabled). It can be set to just lane assist. It does not beep it just puts up some resistance to changing lane.
Lane assist on the Mazda6 demo I had in 2014 used to make a noise via the stereo like running a tyre down a rumble strip. It was annoying. And didn't stop you changing lanes.
Mine will also (I think) try to resist lane changes when someone is in the blind spot.
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>>
>> Had that on a Citroen C3 courtesy car last week. Drove me mad around town
>> when it detected the bus lane markings and on Milton Keynes's roundabouts.
>>
The C3 we had in Crete also had it, but it wasn’t calibrated for the Greeks ability to turn a two lane road into a three or even four lane one by straddling the white lines marking the edge of the road and, at times, the central white line too!
Though, I’m less down on driving in the UK. This week I’ve been to Watford (well, The Grove, which is described as being in leafy Herts...), Cambridge and then this weekend Norfolk. No real delays to complain about, and the odd dawdler in Norfolk but nothing to get irritated by. Weekday trips in the BMW were, mostly, roof down and uneventful. Norfolk was in the MINI; neither have lane assist or adaptive cruise, but I survived :)
Around 500 miles in the BMW at an average of 32ish mpg. 400 in the MINI at 46ish mpg. All in a ‘making unobtrusive progress’ kind of a way, so I’m happy enough with that. Seats in the MINI better than the BMW as they do at least have lumbar adjustment (as standard). I replaced the standard 18†gloss black wheels with diamond cut / black 19†John Cooper Works wheels on the grounds of aesthetics. Pure vanity. They’ve got 225/35 runflat Bridgestone tyres. A touch firm, but it’s got adaptive dampers which take the edge off and so it’s pretty similar ride wise to the BMW. Trouble is, it feels slow in comparison. It’s not, relatively speaking, a slow car but I now see why there’s an arms race (power wise) amongst the manufacturers. Once you’ve had it, you don’t want to go backwards! And I didn’t expect to be disappointed with the performance of a 192PS hatchback. Though, is a Clubman technically a hatch? Two sideways opening rear doors...?
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>> The C3 we had in Crete also had it, but it wasn’t calibrated for the
>> Greeks ability to turn a two lane road into a three or even four lane
>> one by straddling the white lines marking the edge of the road and, at times,
>> the central white line too!
It beeped enough in MK and Northampton with just ordinary UK markings!!
I'm sure I could have turned it off but would have needed to park up then dig round in touchscreen menu. Probably RTFM too.
Bad enough needing to use touchscreen for radio and HVAC. What's wrong with dials and push buttons?
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What's wrong with dials and
>> push buttons?
>>
It's so 2000s
;-)
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>> It's so 2000s
So glad I am 1900s, at least my push button ergonomics work in a car. More than can be said for screen poke technology. ;-)
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 15 Oct 18 at 02:07
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Driving is never a chore for me. I enjoy the challenge of anticipating what is going on around me and making safe and fast progress.
I completely echo the Peter S description of driving in Crete but once you get used to it, it makes sense and the slower drivers tend to keep inside the white line marking what we would probably consider the hard shoulder to allow three or even four lanes of safe traffic.
Earlier this year I was overtaking a line of slower traffic ( perfectly safely ) in such a way on their National road with friends who live there in the car that they told me 'You drive like a local'...
I took it as a compliment..
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Greek driving is often appalling and Greece has the worst accident rate in the EU so I’m not sure it really “does work for themâ€. Not sure that I would take “driving like a local “ as a compliment. A place for defensive driving.
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>> Greek driving is often appalling and Greece has the worst accident rate in the EU
>>
Er. No.
EU Fact Sheet quote:-
"In 2017, Member States with the best road safety scores were Sweden (25) and the UK (27), followed
by the Netherlands (31), Denmark (32), Ireland (33) and Estonia (36). On the other hand, Member
States with the highest fatality rate were Romania (98) and Bulgaria (96). While the EU average
decrease in the number of road deaths from 2016 to 2017 was only 2%, some countries made much
more progress, such as Estonia with -32% and Slovenia with -20%.
In the period 2010-2017, Greece reported the biggest drop in road fatalities (-41%), followed by
Estonia (-39%), Latvia (-38%) and Lithuania (-36%). During the same period, the EU average was of
minus 20%."
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Too late for edit.
More EU stats
tinyurl.com/y86tcfmv
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Driving Becoming a Chore. - Old Navy
