My PC's gone deep into treacle mode. It happened last week also.
I'm using Windows 10 pro with a 64 bit operating system and Waterfox browser.
Task manager shows memory around 80% and disk up to 100%. Waterfox is shown as using just over 1K MB of memory. CPU is jumping around at up to 90%.
Last week I assumed some update was being downloaded, but nothing seemed to happen.
Any suggestions as to how I can delve into this further please?
Windows defender says everything's hunky dory.
This has taken ages to type, the keyboard's so slow!
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CPU sounds like it's maxing out. All you need to is find out why. Sounds like you're looking in roughly the right place - ctrl/alt/del to get the summary. But you can drill down by clicking the Performance tab then click Open Resource Monitor (bottom left)
There you can click on each tab and see exactly what is going on. Click the CPU tab then click on Processes to expand it, also Services. In each you can the Average CPU to sort it (highest first) to get an idea of what is using it.
The culprit ought to be obvious (at least the name should, even if you don't recognise what it is). You can see a graph to the right which will show CPU usage.
So once you've identified the task then we can decide what to do about it. Might be the indexing service or your browser. Or an update. I had one that took over a day on a small laptop and it had exactly your symptoms. If that's what it is you can either turn of updating (undesirable) or just leave it running till complete.
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There seems to be three items in the CPU list with the highest usage
MsMpEng.exe
perfmon.exe
DismHost.exe
Respectively.
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And highest in the disk usage list?
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The top task is Windows Defender. Possibly doing a scan, which would always be processor intensive but should usually stop after a bit.
The next is the performance monitor you are looking at.
The last looks like it's connected with the first.
So I think you need to have a look at Windows Defender and see what's going on.
I think what I'd try first is a manual virus scan and just let it run to completion.
Not because you have any viruses, I reckon the task is just getting caught somehow.
So...
If you have the search box next to the Start button, type Defender and click Windows Defender Security Centre (should be at top of list)
or Right click on Windows Start button, Click System, Click "See details in Windows Defender" in blue (at bottom of the top r-h column)
On the screen headed Your device is being protected - first note down the dates on the last scan and definition update. My definitions were updated today.
Then click virus and threat protection
and in the first place do a Quick Scan.
If that completes, do an Advanced Scan (which can take ages)
Either of those may run to completion and hopefully this will mean the process which is also trying to do a scan gets stopped.
Anyway, try it and let us know...
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Just had a window pop up:
Windows feature update.
Perhaps that's the problem? I'll install it and see if the problem resolves itself. I'll report back.
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Also ensure that your browser's web cache is cleared regularly. Amazing the difference it can make!
I Disabled Windows Defender some time ago.
By the way, Windows Feature Update is more than likely Windows 10 Version 1703 (or 1709) from Windows Update. See:
docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/whats-new-windows-10-version-1709
Last edited by: Stuartli on Mon 11 Dec 17 at 23:19
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After some years I finally chucked Waterfox away about 2 months ago. It was forever giving performance issues. Used to be good, but these days not so much. Nor so necessary.
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>> After some years I finally chucked Waterfox away about 2 months ago. >>
I use Waterfox daily for several hours. I have no problems with it resources use wise or performance wise, but do clear the web cache once it approaches the Default limit figure.
Try running Speedyfox - it may help you with Waterfox, Firefox, Thunderbird etc.
Last edited by: Stuartli on Tue 12 Dec 17 at 00:08
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I'll bear it in mind, thanks.
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Your browser choice is never a reason these days for poor performance. Its all muddy old wives tales from years ago.
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Depends on your machine spec. E.g. If you have a lot of tabs open in Chrome it's quite heavy on memory. So on my little underconfigured Atom laptop with next to no memory, more than about 3 tabs virtually stops the machine. My desktop carries on as if nothing is happening with more than 20 (which is my number of start-up tabs).
I'd agree that the cache has rarely caused me a problem.
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If you have a lot of pages in any browser open on a weedy little atom it will be toast
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My nine year old Core 2 Duo workstation, that I take pleasure in keeping going, is very quick helped by running the OS on an SSD, currently on Windows 7 (though I cloned the hard drive and let the clone upgrade to 10 so may go that route sometime) I'm getting to the point ..., I use Chrome and IE and can have 10 or more tabs open in each without any slowdown.
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I've never known a single upgrade make such an immediately noticeable improvement to performance as an SSD.
My media centre PC in the lounge is a 6 year old Sandybridge i5 and I treated that to an SSD boot drive a couple of year ago. It boots Windows 10 from cold in less than 10 seconds, and once running, launches software near instantaneously. Word for the first time after a reboot (i.e. with no caching) takes 2 seconds from mouse click to ready.
Well worth doing.
Last edited by: DP on Tue 12 Dec 17 at 10:10
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>> Well worth doing.
>>
Agree totally, my Laptop is a six year old Dell i5 that has been around the world with me and is still pretty much as new, fairly contemporary with USB 3.0 etc and super quick with Windows 10 an SSD. Slight problem with Windows Update currently though, I might post about that on here.
Just opened Word for the first time today on my workstation, less than a second. Photoshop when started for the first time after switch-on/reboot used to take about 40 seconds pre SSD, it now takes about 8-9 seconds. I use Sandisk Ultra SSDs and the Sandisk Dashboard is still stating 100% life after about 20 months of hard use.
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Yeah the beauty of SSD is not just the speed at which it accesses the program which you are opening, but also that if it needs to use a swapfile (which systems with lower amounts of memory are more prone to) then that also happens so much more quickly. People say you ought not have volatile files like swapfiles on SSDs but mine are well over 3 years old and are used a lot every day and haven't died yet...
My main PC has a 500Gb SSD for C drive and all that has on it is Windows and program files. All data is on a second 250Gb SSD but large stuff which i don't need quick access (like photos and music) are on SATA drives (also on the NAS for access from any PC). It's a pretty old machine now but it flies.
Actually I think I have a small SSD somewhere, may try it in teh Atom laptop - not that I ever use the thing but it'd be good to have the opportunity.
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Update.
I've been out all day and just switched the PC on.
The screen has 'stretched' again, but I've kept Smokie's solution for rolling back the screen driver.
The printer's stopped working, I just get the message 'waiting for printer status', so I'll have to re-load something there.
Got a pop-up window 'would you recommend Windows ten to a friend?'. Oh the irony of it!
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... and how's it performing?
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>> ... and how's it performing?
Damn and blast, got the printer working but your trick of rolling back the display driver won't work this time as the rollback option's greyed out.
Any suggestions welcome.
Task manager's showing memory 70% and disk less than 10%. Everything seems up to speed.
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>> >> ... and how's it performing?
>>
>> Damn and blast, got the printer working but your trick of rolling back the display
>> driver won't work this time as the rollback option's greyed out.
>> Any suggestions welcome.
Windows has deleted your driver in the upgrade, so its not there to roll back to. You need to install a new driver for your video card, then let windows over write it, then roll back to it.
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>>You need to install a new driver for your video card, then let windows over write it, then roll back to it.
Will you tell a simpleton like me how to do that please?
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I will if Zero has gone to bed.
Do you know where to get a driver for your graphics card?
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Right mouse click on windows start menu at the bottom left
Click device manager
scroll down click arrow to left of display adaptor
tell us what it says
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>>tell us what it says
ATI Radeon 3000 Graphics
Just that, nothing else. Sorry been busy elsewhere and off to bed now. Will follow up tomorrow.
Thanks for your help.
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>> >>tell us what it says
>>
>> ATI Radeon 3000 Graphics
support.amd.com/en-us/download
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Zero, you should probably advise him to check the version he's got now (seemingly unsatisfactory) against the version he thinks he needs to use, and will download, to improve his position. Especially useful if he can remember the version that previously worked.
I'd tell him myself, but I think he's ignoring me.
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I doubt he remembers what version worked. The latest one will work (till Windows update removes it). The update program will ensure he has qualified drivers.
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I hope you're right, most probably you are, but sometimes they don't cope well with exceptions.
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>>I'd tell him myself, but I think he's ignoring me.
Sorry you think I'm ignoring you No FM2R, I'm not. I don't know what version I've got or had.
I was out most of yesterday and been out today until now and don't have a smartphone.
The PC's back in treacle mode with the disk showing 90% full, so I guess it's doing another download!
I'll get onto Zero's solution when the PC's more communicative. In the meantime daughter's got a plumbing problem.
I thought retirement was meant to be relaxing!
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Haha I know *that* problem. Call yesterday from daughter that her window was stuck open. Eventually I thought I ought to go and take a look (about 8 miles away) and there was a loose screw in the frame preventing it completely closing (it had fallen out of the handle area). So all I ended up doing was tightening a few screws.
She even spotted it before I did... still, the electric miles aren't that expensive :-)
I had a list of stuff to do today and SWMBO gave me another list before she went to work! Not quite sure when I'll squeeze in the power nap today!! LOL
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>> Will you tell a simpleton like me how to do that please?>>
I had a similar problem with my AMD 4200 graphics after the latest Windows 10 update and Device Manager would only install the basic vidieo driver and without the Catalyst Centre.
Some investigations revealed this solution:
support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop/legacy?product=legacy2&os=Windows%208%20-%2064
and I now have full HD resolution and much of the Catalyst Centre features again (but had to keep stretching the HD setting to fit the screen for a few times before the configuration "stuck").
Sure I mentioned this in another similar thread at the time a few weeks ago....
PS
The AMD Catalyst Centre Installer version listed in Control Panel is 8.0.877.0.
One link, if the AMD one fails:
www.updatestar.com/en/topic/amd%20catalyst%208.0.877.0
Last edited by: Stuartli on Wed 13 Dec 17 at 13:37
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I'm back, sorted out daughter's plumbing (looks like I'm fitting a new shower tomorrow), had dinner and now I'll look at Stuartli's solution.
Stuartli, you did mention it a few weeks ago, but Smokie's solution worked (that time, it doesn't now) and so that's what I used.
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Stuartli. Tried your solution and got the message: "This program does not have a file associated with it", or something similar.
I don't have an AMD graphics card perhaps?
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Yes you do. So go to the AMD site I gave you
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>> Yes you do. So go to the AMD site I gave you
I went to: "Automatically Detect and Install Your Driver"
Got: "Components are already installed"
Like I said, I'm a complete novice at this stuff and need leading by the hand.
Off to bed, before changing daughter's shower tomorrow.
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>> I don't have an AMD graphics card perhaps?
BT, AMD bought ATI graphics a number of years ago so you need to get a driver from AMD's website now. Yes it says ATI for the graphic card but the driver you'll get from AMD will cover older cards too, including those branded ATI.
They bought them over 10 years ago.... how old is this PC! No wonder it's slow :-)
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 13 Dec 17 at 23:32
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...there is no official support (driver) for the ATI3000 series under Windows10 (the last official release was for Windows8). It is obsolescent (one might even say obsolete)
The AMD/ATI advice is to allow Windows Update to install a legacy driver (8.970.100.9001) as detailed here (with the details of non-support):
tinyurl.com/ATI3000pt1
....which will have (very) limited functionality (including issues with display scaling).
I suspect this is the driver you have installed, but you can check the version (ask if you don't know how) and if it isn't, you can manually install it (both the Catalyst Control Centre and the Driver) from here:
tinyurl.com/ATI3000pt2
I'm not at all sure this will fix your problem (as it documents known issues similar to yours), but if you haven't already got it, it is worth a try.
If it doesn't and you are feeling more adventurous, people have described 'fixing' this issue by means of editing the registry. I wouldn't go there if you don't understand the registry and the need to take a restore point or backup before editing.
community.amd.com/thread/184967
(This thread is headed Radeon 4000, but it is bundled in with the same legacy driver and issues, and refers in passing to other obsolescent graphics versions).
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>>I'm not at all sure this will fix your problem (as it documents known issues similar to yours)>>
I think you will find that you have provided the same information as I have earlier in the thread with regard to the Legacy drivers, Microsoft's basic driver provision and the solution on the AMD website...:-)
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....but with so much more panache, Stuart
;-)
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The PC's five years old.
The driver's: ATI Radeon 3000 Graphics
Whilst searching for the receipt to find out how old the PC is, I came across a DVD:
Motherboard M5A 78L-MLX series
AMD760G/SB710Chipset Support DVD Rev.1016.01
ASUS M4081
Do you reckon there's any chance I might find something on there?
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Pretty good chance, but it may well not work with Windows 10.
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It is possible that a Windows 7/8/8.1 driver will work with Windows 10.
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It's also possible that, even if you can't find a satisfactory solution, you could procure a really cheap video compatible card rather than junking the whole PC. Doddle to fit.
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My Dell Inspiron desktop and ST230 monitor with the Radeon 4200 graphics is seven and a half years old (it still does all that I need!!) and the Legacy video driver I've mentioned earlier works fine with it.
A Windows 10 update a few months ago did wipe out the original video driver, the Microsoft basic one is a joke, but the graphics are working again now, albeit with one or two minor Catalyst Centre features missing.
So it's well worth trying the last available Legacy drivers as detailed earlier in the thread....:-) :-)
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>> It's also possible that, even if you can't find a satisfactory solution, you could procure
>> a really cheap video compatible card rather than junking the whole PC. Doddle to fit.
b***** good suggestion, that.
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>>The PC's five years old>>
The Legacy video graphics driver link I provided earlier on the AMD website will/should work fine with the Radeon 3000 graphics - it's listed in the cards which are supported.
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If it were me, I would go to the AMD site, manually download the last driver for my video card (using the drop down boxes) and install it along with the catalyst centre, and use that to adjust my scaling.
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I downloaded and installed "Catalyst Software Suite", but got the error message: "this file does not have a program associated with it for performing this action ..........................................."
Do I need to also download "Latest Beta Driver"? That seems to be just to resolve a gaming problem (I don't do games).
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>> Do I need to also download "Latest Beta Driver"? That seems to be just to
>> resolve a gaming problem (I don't do games)
No dont do beta drivers. And you said you used the automated install. Use the manual one.
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Tried the manual one (labelled custom install) and still get the same error message:
"this file does not have a program associated with it for performing this action ..........................................."
Thanks for the warning about not updating to Windows 10 ;>)
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@ Tom - that is simply an "associations" problem, meaning that your computer has no application associated with the suffix on the filename of the file you downloaded. It would usually be xxx.exe but if you look at the file I bet the .exe is missing, or is something else.
That probably means either the download is corrupt or you've downloaded the wrong thing (unlikely). Re-downloading doesn't always cure it if it a corrupted download, but it's worth a shot.
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 14 Dec 17 at 16:48
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This page community.amd.com/docs/DOC-1313 indicates that the 3000 isn't supported on Windows 10.
Other places indicate that the registry fix worked for a lot of people until another Windows update, and it no longer works.
It must be fixable though, we fixed it once!! Your problem will be how to stop Windows keep splatting your fix every time it updates.
Does the bit you plug into your computer look like this? uk.rs-online.com/web/p/d-sub-connector-kits/3062720/ ? If so that really is quite old technology... might be hard to find another one which does support Windows 10.
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>>Does the bit you plug into your computer look like this?
Yup, that's the one.
I've another old tower somewhere up in the loft I think. It cooked its motherboard. Perhaps it may be worth pulling the graphics card from that. It used the same screen.
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>>@ Tom - that is simply an "associations" problem
Looking at explorer, I've an AMD folder
Two sub folders: Radeon-Software-Adrenalin......, Support
The first has four sub folders: Bin, Bin64, Config, Images
The second, One sub folder: 13-1-legacy_vista_win7_win8_64_dd_ccc
Which has four sub folders: Bin64, Config, Images, Packages
Under program files I've two folders: AMD APP, AMD AVT
Each have a single sub folder: bin
The first has a single sub folder: x86_64. Two files: amdocl_as, amdocl_ld
The second bin sub folder has two files: aml.kdb, kdbsync
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Another suggestion:
Does the motherboard have on board graphics?
Does it have a VGA and/or DVI socket on the back of the PC in addition to the graphics card?
If so you can probably take the ATI card out and run the on board graphics without noticing any difference in graphics performance.
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Think it's onboard ATI graphics, just VGA output www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/M5A78LM_LX/specifications/
So you could put a graphics card in but I don't think any which have that D-DUB connector are likely to be Win10 compatible. Maybe there's an adapter from DVI to D-SUB.
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>> Think it's onboard ATI graphics,>>
Aha, OK, that link says it has 1 x PCIe 2.0 (x16), 2 x PCIe (x1) and 1 x PCI slots, so you could run a PCIe (x16) graphics card, available from around £20.
Like this:
tinyurl.com/ycp7vcgw
Last edited by: Hard Cheese on Thu 14 Dec 17 at 17:56
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>> The PC's five years old.
How did a 5 year old PC end up with Windows 10?
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>> How did a 5 year old PC end up with Windows 10?
It came with 7 (IIRC), but I believe support for that was withdrawn and I was offered a free update to 10.
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I wouldn't have done that if i were you, causes all sorts of video driver issues.
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Such an a***. And it doesn't make it better just because it made me laugh.
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>> I wouldn't have done that if i were you, causes all sorts of video driver issues.>>
But this was the first time (a few weeks ago) that Windows 10 (probably Version 1703) did affect the video driver, at least in my case - hunting for a solution turned up the links I've mentioned earlier. On Version 1709 now.
I've had Windows 10 installed since it was first officially launched (July 29th, 2015?) after having the original Window 7 installation.
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>> >> The PC's five years old.
>>
>> How did a 5 year old PC end up with Windows 10?
>>
My workstation is coming up for ten years old, I upgraded it from XP Pro to Windows 7 Pro about three years ago, it was then offered the free Windows 10 upgrade in 2016 so I cloned the hard drive (on to an SSD), let the original hard drive upgrade to Windows 10, and made sure it was working OK, before putting the SSD with Windows 7 back in it and carrying on with that.
Similarly my laptop is six years old, though pretty contemporary, was on Windows 7 from and was offered the free Windows 10 upgrade in 2016.
There must be loads of PCs a lot older than five years on Windows 10 without any problems.
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>> The PC's five years old. How did a 5 year old PC end up with Windows 10?>>
Why shouldn't it? My Dell desktop is seven and a half years old and runs very happily on Windows 10.
There has been the odd problem, normally sorted reasonably quickly, but the AMD Radeon 4200 graphics (in my case) is now regarded as requiring Legacy drivers, something Microsoft doesn't supply other than a very basic driver now.
I have a less than a year old Dell Vostro i5 laptop, which I keep purely for emergency purposes and which is updated regularly. But even though it's working on a minimal level (just Waterfox and the odd utility are installed on it), it takes far longer than the Dell desktop to fire up...:-) :-)
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>> >> The PC's five years old. How did a 5 year old PC end up
>> with Windows 10?>>
>>
>> Why shouldn't it?
DOH! what is this thread about? Windows `10 cocking up an older PC
My Dell desktop is seven and a half years old and runs
>> very happily on Windows 10.
>> There has been the odd problem, normally sorted reasonably quickly, but the AMD Radeon 4200
>> graphics (in my case) is now regarded as requiring Legacy drivers, something Microsoft doesn't supply
>> other than a very basic driver now.
Jeez windows 10 cocking up an older PC. What a shock.
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Could Microsoft and Apple support older hardware (video drivers, scanners, printers, etc.) on newer OS versions? Yes of course but that takes time and effort (so cost) to support. And not many will have newer OS and old hardware.
There is also an argument they are all forcing us to upgrade to newer computers because the old ones now no longer work properly. And you had to buy a new printer, scanner, etc. too because they were not supported.
Best solution for BT I would think is a new graphics card... but then that might not support his ancient monitor.
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>>but then that might not support his ancient monitor.
OI! It ain't steam powered you know and it's a hell of a lot younger than me ;>)
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I think you know what I mean though - you need a graphics card with a VGA connector.
When I installed MacOS on my PC I had problems with my then monitor, a VGA connected 1280x1024 device. MacOS does not support VGA attached monitors so it would only let me select lower resolutions.
I then used it with my current monitor (a 25" 2560x1440 Dell monitor) and dropped MacOS off it to try Windows 10 on that SSD. Rarely turn the thing on to be honest.
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>>Jeez windows 10 cocking up an older PC. What a shock. >>
Perhaps you really ought to read forum members' comments somewhat more carefully?
Sometimes trying to be somewhat smart can rebound on you. Like thousands of others, I've had very little problem with Windows 10 - certainly nowhere in the same league as some of the
earlier Windows operating systems....:-)
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I'm smart enough to read a forum where YOU write it has caused you problems, and then claim it hasn't.
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Boys, please stop waving your willies about and put them back in your trousers.
Thank you.
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>> Well said VX:)
>>
>> Pat
Quick, an apple for the teachers pet someone.
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>> >> Well said VX:)
>> >>
>> >> Pat
>>
>> Quick, an apple for the teachers pet someone.
>>
Z can't fetch it, he's in detention ...
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Dunno why you're worrying Dave, its not like it was making much of a draft.
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>> I'm smart enough to read a forum where YOU write it has caused you problems, and then claim it hasn't. >>
You're probably thinking of the Windows 10 update that killed users' internet connection some months ago - that affected many, many thousands....:-)
Overall Windows 10 has proved pretty sound all round, although I always was a fan of XP Pro and Windows 7.
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>>The PC's five years old. How did a 5 year old PC end
>> up with Windows 10?>>
>> >>
>> >> Why shouldn't it?
>>
>> DOH! what is this thread about? Windows `10 cocking up an older PC
>>
Z, sure there may be some problems running Windows 10 on older PC's though they are mostly easily surmountable. I was surprised that you felt the need to ask how a five year old PC ended up with Windows 10 when Microsoft were giving it away!
Other than the fact that I prefer Windows 7, the only problem I have had with Windows 10 is that Windows Update is not working on my laptop, I might post about that here though have not attempted to sort it yet.
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>> >>the only problem I have had with Windows 10 is that Windows Update is not
>> working on my laptop>>
>>
>> These links may help you and others:
>>
Thanls Stuart, I'll get around to tacking it shortly ...
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Should also mention going to Updates and Security in Settings>Troubleshoot and running the Windows Update Troubleshooter if available........
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I had had problems with the creator Update failing to take multiple times over several weeks on a Packard Bell mini laptop with a touch screen. (Surprisingly it had previously upgraded from W7 with no problems - I had expected it to never work again). It gets used for a TV feed because it is small, has an HDMI interface and works well for some streamed TV channels, Skype and Spotify.
Following the advice from the Techradar site above, downloading a ISO usb version of W10 creator it all installed properly, allbeit slowly.
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My laptop seems to have decided to update itself now so hopefully all is in order ...
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My display has also righted itself.
Going into display settings there were only two options:
1024 x 768
800 x 600
There's now two additional:
1360 x 768 (my preferred setting)
1280 x 720
Could Microsoft have received adverse feedback and restored these settings? I left feedback when I was trying to resolve my problem. Perhaps they do listen?
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The sleep option that had disappeared with the update has also returned.
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I'm late on the scene here and haven't read all of the foregoing, but my computer was geed-up by the addition of more processor chips - although it is slowing down again now, three years later, and I don't know if there is room for any more.
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Processor chips, Aunt Bessies or McCain's?
You might be thinking of memory, if so it possible that you could add more ir replace the current RAM modules with more capacious ones.
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>>You might be thinking of memory, if so it possible that you could add more ir replace the >>current RAM modules with more capacious ones.
OR
1) You could use a "tune up" utility to clear up redundant / broken links etc etc
2) You could re-install windows from scratch, there will likely be a copy of the original windows software on the HDD. You could then spend Xmas day downloading the updates, installing them, finding new drivers etc etc
Sometimes solutions do not require ££ but time and patience
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PC slowing right down - smokie
