This happened to me a few years ago. I was one of several military groupies who were given a go with a Kalashnikov rifle. The weapon was set to fully-automatic and various people fired random bursts.
When my turn came I pointed the Kalash vertically into the air and looked over both shoulders before bringing it down into aiming position. Pointing to a fist-sized white stone some 30 yards away I said I was going to aim at it, and fired a single round after sighting carefully. The weapon's sights were bent and the bullet hit the ground high and to the right. Aiming low and to the left I got close enough to send the white stone rolling away a few yards.
As I adjusted the aim slightly and prepared to try again, the Kalash was snatched out of my hands - a dangerous thing to do I thought - and handed to one of the other groupies, who blasted away uselessly churning up the ground.
I was extremely annoyed, but what can you do? A few moments later one of the militants (they were the Polisario Front, an anti-Moroccan body) sidled up and asked discreetly where I had got my 'military training'. In the CCF at school, I said. They obviously didn't believe me.
Of course I have always liked firearms and when I was about 10 my good old father had taken out a .22 target weapon and let me shoot at tins off the back verandah. The houseboys loved it.
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I quite like guns myself. My childhood was spent in Ireland in the fifties where handgun ownership was quite common, my old man had a pistol and also used to take me with him when he went out shooting rabbits with a shotgun. When I was about five he took me out one day and standing behind me with his outstretched arms round me he put my finger on the trigger under his and eased it back till the gun fired. Biggest thrill of my life up till then, I took note of his "Not a word to your mam" advice and she never found out. Not very PC the old man and all the better for it. Ireland now has some of the strictest gun controls in the world, even air weapons need a FAC.
I still like to shoot, having two air rifles and a pistol. Quite a few rats have departed this earth with a slug in the belly.
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Our favorite weapon was a plastic tube used as a blow pipe.The things you get up to when kids.Air rifles to wake the neighbours across the road.Good job the old man was at sea.
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I used to have a go with long muzzles whilst a member of the CCF at school. Never touched one since.
Years ago I spent a few days with distant relatives who lived just outside Canberra. They were nutters who had their own bunker, a veritable arsenal, and expected an imminent apocalypse. They looked perfectly normal but I have never contacted them since.
My CA friends have close friends and a few years ago took their friends son on an 18 day backpacking trip... On day 3 they found out he was packing 'heat' . The only threat in the Northern California wilderness ( Sierra Nevada) was maybe a scared black bear, chipmunks and giuardia from not filtering water. They aborted the trip with immediate effect. Their reaction was that anyone who carries a seiously large handgun, and ammo, on a backpacking trip has several issues.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 14 Aug 16 at 19:19
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Spent last evening watching the .22 pistol shooting from the Olympics (men's rapid fire & women's single shot), made me think how GB are missing from handgun competitions and the chance of more gold medals.
I have an old style 10m target air rifle (FWB 300s) which I use now and then.
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>> Spent last evening watching the .22 pistol shooting from the Olympics (men's rapid fire &
>> women's single shot), made me think how GB are missing from handgun competitions and the
>> chance of more gold medals.
I don't think that the shooting of weapons has any part in a modern day Olympics and all such activities should be removed from the games.
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I had the same thought. Would it include javelin chucking? The Javelin Society could probably get exemption on the ground that that they aren't trying to hit anything.
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Used to enjoy clay pigeon shooting. But about 20 odd years ago during one of my financial crises I sold my gun to raise money for something boring like paying the mortgage for a while and I've never got around to replacing it.
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I have fired:- (1) Browning automatic pistol. (2) Lee Enfield .303 rifle. (3) Bren gun. (4) Sten gun.(4) RPG. (5)Thrown grenades - carefully!
I was OK with the rifle, good with the Bren and better with the Browning.
Missed out on the new "wonder weapons", the FN rifle and the Sterling sub-machine gun.
All in the dim and very distant past, of course.
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>> I have fired:- (1) Browning automatic pistol. (2) Lee Enfield .303 rifle. (3) Bren gun.
>> (4) Sten gun.(4) RPG. (5)Thrown grenades - carefully!
>> I was OK with the rifle, good with the Bren and better with the Browning.
>> Missed out on the new "wonder weapons", the FN rifle and the Sterling sub-machine gun.
>> All in the dim and very distant past, of course.
>>
>>
Ditto a generation or so later, with SLR and SMG replacing Lee-Enfield and Sten. Bren (LMG) was still very much part of our kit as was the Browning pistol. The latter, I believe is only now being phased out and replaced by the Glock. All good kit, a lot of my generation of soldiers firmly believe the FN rifle, or SLR as it's more commonly known , to be a superior weapon in many respects to the SA80 which replaced it.
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Various shotguns, glock pistol, mg1(a remanufactured mg42), Czech made ak47, m16/m4, sa80 and minimi for me.
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>> >>) Browning automatic pistol.
The word always makes me think of Goering's joke that whenever he heard the word culture he wanted to reach for his Browning.
The story may be apocryphal. Goering may have been the nearest any of the gang came to appreciating culture, but did he really read Browning?
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>>
>> The word always makes me think of Goering's joke that whenever he heard the word
>> culture he wanted to reach for his Browning.
>>
>> The story may be apocryphal. Goering may have been the nearest any of the gang
>> came to appreciating culture, but did he really read Browning?
Same Goering who asked Dolfi Galant what he wanted, and was told 'A squadron of Spitfires'?
Browning, licensed to Fabrique Nationale, then stamped with a swastika at FN. yep, was used by the hun in WW2.
Or he might have been talking gravy.
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In my youth I was a keen shooter, I had a couple of 12-bore's S/S and O/U that i used for Pigeon decoying, a .22 Rifle for small game, Rabbits and Hares, and a Winchester model 70, for bigger stuff, and a Weihrauch .22 air rifle for small vermin.
I woke up one morning and went to skin a Deer I had hanging in an out-building, and got a sudden touch of guilt about killing such a lovely Animal, and I subsequently sold all my guns and bought a small fishing dinghy, and took up boat-angling instead. Nowadays I still have the Air-rifle for Ratty on my allotment (no guilt 'bout killing those!), and often think I'd like to take up Pigeon shooting again, but haven't ....as yet!
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>> I subsequently sold all my guns and bought a small fishing dinghy, and took
>> up boat-angling instead.
If fish could scream, angling would be so much more fun.
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>>
>> If fish could scream, angling would be so much more fun.
>>
And vegetarianism too, if carrots could scream when their roots are pulled out. Mandrakes do, after all. :)
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>> I had the same thought. Would it include javelin chucking? The Javelin Society could probably
>> get exemption on the ground that that they aren't trying to hit anything.
>>
There is a movement to add jousting as a traditional and growing British sport.
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>> I don't think that the shooting of weapons has any part in a modern day
>> Olympics and all such activities should be removed from the games.
>>
So fencing's out as well, is it?
It may encourage knife crime, after all...
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>> And what about archery?
>>
Is that STILL on steam radio?
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To my regret I've never fired a large-calibre pistol. Old service Webley .45s firing blanks to encourage oarsmen at university don't really count. I'm ingenious and good with my hands, and can remember adapting .38 blanks for use in a .45 by rolling them tightly in paper... had a school friend who was a gun freak and supplied the blanks. On CCF field days people used to get up to all sorts of tricks, firing pencils out of .303s for example. Boys are foolish and do dangerous things.
I've got a nice old hammer 12 bore whose barrels are slightly suspect, demanding the use of so-called 'impax' low-pressure cartridges. Haven't used it for years. One of the cousins here has a proper hammerless 12 bore shotgun, a single-barrelled .410 and a silenced .22 rifle for rats'n'rabbits. He's got a more serious deer rifle too, but he isn't a bloodthirsty guy.
The women here, a majority, dislike guns and regard them as dangerous which they are of course. No one's ever been hit but there have been a few nearish misses. It's a densely wooded area.
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I would add: all the cousin's weapons are kept in a proper locked gun cabinet fastened to the wall. My shotgun is kept in pieces which are stashed in different places. We're quite careful.
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At one time during my military service, I was in charge of the unit's armoury.
Lots of .303 rifles, revolvers for the officers, Bren guns, Sten guns and a few Sterlings, anti-tank weapons and the like.
I had a Sten with a magazine of ammo. for personal security. The Sten was a notoriously unreliable weapon, it would discharge when you didn't want it to and wouldn't fire when you did want it to. Apparently it cost ten shillings (50p) to make each one. The guy I shared our sleeping accommodation with made a point of putting the loaded magazine in the Sten. He was not long back from Kenya (Mau Mau) and a bit nervous. He made me nervous, I reported him and got him shifted out to another billet. I am sure I have posted all this already, somewhere else?
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>> I had a Sten with a magazine of ammo. for personal security. The Sten was a notoriously unreliable weapon, it would discharge when you didn't want it to and wouldn't fire when you did want it to. Apparently it cost ten shillings (50p) to make each one.
Only nine shillings, I was once told. A horrible thing, with trigger and trigger guard liable to cut the operator's fingers... If you dropped it accidentally it could fire its whole magazine in all directions. The Germans had the Schmeisser, a vastly superior weapon. For that alone they deserved to win the war.
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" . The Sten was a notoriously unreliable weapon ."
My dad was a tank commander, he told a tale once, prompted by me telling him that we had been instructed in use of the Sten that day, that while milling around a holding area, and standing up out of his turret, a truck in front of him stopped to drop of the infantry travelling in the back.
The first guy out had a Sten hooked over his shoulder on a sling, he jumped out, landed on the ground, and the sten went off and blew the back of his head off.
Wasn't the spring known for being too weak (and cheap - as said ?)
I can also remember my instructor banging on about keeping our fingers out of the way, i could tell from the tone of his voice that he meant every word, so i was nervous even before my dad told his tale.
I fired a Bren, (and missed !) but there is a definite thrill in loosing off multiple rounds (in bursts of 4-6 according to same instructor) and loved it, only downside (apart from easily overheated barrel) was the limited 20 round magazine (similar to the American BAR)
My favourite though was the SMLE MK4 .303 (got my Marksman's badge), and later was surprised that a 12Bore gave the same sort of kick.
IIRC there's a story that early in WW1 the Germans attacked a position defended by the Irish Guards, and were convinced that they were under machine gun fire, when in fact the Irish were only armed with the Lee-Enfield
Reality though (as said) is that the weapon was too accurate, at too long a range, for what had become "modern" warfare.
Question for anybody who's interested -
Maximum number of rounds you could load into the Lee-Enfield ?
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Magazine hold 10 rounds, so if you can chamber a round - and then clip a full magazine on, it would be 11. But I've no idea if that can be done.
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>> chamber a round - and then clip a full magazine on, it would be 11. But I've no idea if that can be done.
It can, but is discouraged for obvious reasons. Also, putting the full 10 rounds in the magazine was supposed to weaken the spring.
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Bit like winding on a SLR camera then. Ta.
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>
>> IIRC there's a story that early in WW1 the Germans attacked a position defended by
>> the Irish Guards, and were convinced that they were under machine gun fire, when in
>> fact the Irish were only armed with the Lee-Enfield
>>
As part of my training I, with the rest of my intake, attended the Army School of Infantry, as it was then, at Warminster,
One impressive exhebeesh, was the Demonstration Platoon showing just how many live rounds could be put down by a Lee Enfield when in the hands of really well trained men.
It was quite something.
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>>Apparently it cost ten shillings (50p) to make
>> each one.
Triang (Lines brothers) made them.
Apparently they took the existing idea, simplified the design, eliminating a fair few parts, and were churning them out cheaper than the price they'd been asked to make them at!
Very much a 'needs must' weapon.
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Aha! Found it!
BBC The Genius Of Design 3 of 5 Blueprints For War 2010
On youchoob
also features the T34, liberty ships, mosquito, and a few others.
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>> Triang (Lines brothers) made them.
Stens had a bad reputation, as tending to go into automatic mode if dropped. This was on account of their very heavy sliding bolts, which could jerk back, then engage the first round on recovery. I believe a former Triang CEO had a hand in one or more other weapons tending to harm their operators, the weird Smith Gun, the Northover Projector and the Black Bombard. The latter may have been an early form of the Piat Mortar, which had a spring so strong that the operator had to cock while on it on his back, using the shoulder rest as a foot rest and dragging the barrel towards him.
I trained on the Sten and the Piat, although the mortar rounds were too expensive or too dangerous for young recruits, so some kind of dry round was used. I also trained on hand grenades and the .303 rifle but the most dangerous threat (apart from an unknown number of Communist terrorists) was from the .300 (?) American Carbide. These were company issue and could go off without apparent reason while loading and unloading. This happened to me, while alone, and a colleague while I was standing in front of him. Luckily, his gun was at the half port so the bullet whizzed overhead.
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>>but the most dangerous threat (apart
>> from an unknown number of Communist terrorists) was from the .300 (?) American Carbide.
M1 carbine.
Close defence weapon. Not very accurate, and a piglet to keep incredibly clean, or else it jammed.
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>> I've got a nice old hammer 12 bore whose barrels are slightly suspect, demanding the use of so-called 'impax' low-pressure cartridges.
I don't think there are Impax buckshot cartridges. In any case I can remember opening an impax cartridge, emptying out the birdshot and putting SSG balls into it... I think it held nine.
Worked OK, killed a poor little deer stone dead from about 20 yards give or take the odd twitch. I gave it the other barrel behind the ear to make sure.
I don't think I'd do anything like that now. We humans are a nasty lot, inhumane really. Of course I got kudos for supplying all that meat, but I felt guilty.
I too think I've posted all this before, here or on HJ.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 14 Aug 16 at 19:12
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At the time of my service, generally, the pongoes (army) had revolvers. Our mob had the Browning, which so exited the company of Gordon Highlanders (in service in Cyprus and attached to 45 Cdo. R.M.) an inspection in the officer's mess was called for, that resulted in a shot from the Browning going through the ceiling of the room!
The offender did a LOT of extra orderly officer duties, much to the joy of we others:-)
A Sten gun was a horridly unsafe weapon, as evidenced by the officer's mess corporal dropping his Sten outside the hotel in Troodos which housed the mess. It started firing on impact and a sentry was very lucky that his slung rife butt intercepted a round heading for his thigh!
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>It started firing on impact and a sentry was very lucky that his slung rife butt intercepted
>a round heading for his thigh!
Our gun club in Namibia once hosted an event of Namibian club shooters competing against members of the South African national squad. I was chosen to shoot skeet, trap and combat-handgun. In combat shooting you began with a holstered weapon and were scored on accuracy at each target and elapsed time.
I had finished my round so hung around to watch other competitors. One guy from another Namib club was given the "Go!" and went for his gun. It discharged before he'd even got it out of the holster and the shell went through his trousers, scraped his knee and thudded into the ground beside his foot. He had obviously holstered the gun with the safety off to gain a tenth or two and was disqualified but could easily have lost a leg or worse.
We lost the event horribly. You can't hope to compete against folks who practice for hours every day.
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My complete inventory:
School. Aged c. 11, bought 19C. “naval pistol†from another boy for 2/6d. Came with three non-matching bullets but useless anyway as this was a revolver with chargeable chambers, like a muzzle loader. Saved for an air rifle but pocket money didn’t stretch to it.
Later school. Joined Cadets and got access to the school armoury; a WWI Mannlicher rifle (no ammo) and four .22s, a Mossberg and three Winchesters. Shooting practice under supervision of senior boys. Demonstration by a master of grenades, gun cotton and sticky bombs but no hands-on. Made acquaintance with Smith gun and a load of other antiques while night-guarding in local drill hall.
National service. Basic training on .303 rifle, grenade, Bren, 2†mortar, Piat mortar, Sten. Bought .22 Webley air pistol (not much use).
Malaysian “Emergencyâ€. Issued with 9mm Herbstal pistol (Browning under Belgian licence), .300 M1 carbine, 2 armed guards with .303 rifles. Bought .765 Beretta, nice little pillow gun. Also an ancient Savage .22 with an octagonal barrel.
None of this was used in anger, only to dispatch wounded animals.
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>>No blowpipe? :)
Come to think of it, yes. Amazing to watch in operation - just a light cough into the mouthpiece to launch the dart and some small jungle mammal would drop dead from a great height.
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>>>some small jungle mammal would drop dead from a great height.<<<
why am I not srprised?
tinyurl.com/blowpipe1947
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Wed 17 Aug 16 at 11:16
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>> >>>some small jungle mammal would drop dead from a great height.<<<
>>
>> why am I not srprised?
>>
>>
>> tinyurl.com/blowpipe1947
>>
Assuming the damn thing worked. Useless bit of kit; the Milan anti-tank wansn't much better.
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>>Also an ancient Savage .22 with an octagonal barrel.
I had one of those once. Incredibly accurate.
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My .22 was a "Savage" with bolt action and a round barrel ;-) - held 17 bullets in a tube which slid out from under the barrel. fairly accurate with the open sights but better when i fitted a 'scope! - got more meat per box of bullets! Heard of a chap locally who used to brag that he used his for Snipe! - but i was never that good!
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>> Heard of a chap locally who used to brag that he used
>> his for Snipe! - but i was never that good!
Hence the word... sniper.
Read something about it recently, the WW1 airmen had the range/deflection etc wired in because of their knowlege on the moors.
Also, Steinbeck wrote about WW2 bomber gunners... all depression kids, so they HAD to shoot well. And trained by shooting skeet from the back of a pickup on a bumpy road!
Such men as these.
As an aside, I have a friend who is a demon on the pool table. His previous job? Sniper scout.
That chap could do angles and velocities like you couldn't believe.
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Shooting, Scouting and Pool both require a good "eye"! - sounds like he had the right job! ;-)
Never tried "Clays" - you can't eat-em!
Last edited by: devonite on Tue 16 Aug 16 at 16:26
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>Never tried "Clays" - you can't eat-em!
At the same event I mentioned above, our club chairman had a bit of fun with the leading skeet shot from the SA squad.
The guy stood on the first station and called for his first bird. He mounted the gun fluidly and made the shot well before the clay reached the crossing point. The clay ducked and flew on unbroken. Everyone was gobsmacked because this guy could hit 99 ex 100 day after day and regularly cleared 100 ex 100. He was the best skeet shot in southern Africa for Glub's sake.
He called for his repeat bird and blew it to dust. Likewise the low bird and the pair. Everyone else cleared both the singles and pair so he was one bird down on even us club shooters.
On the second stand exactly the same thing happened. A small chip broke off the clay but it didn't break. This was unbelievable. He changed guns and opened a new box of cartridges.
On the third stand the high bird flinched again and visibly moved off trajectory but landed in one piece.
Smelling a rat, he broke his gun, walked over to where the clays had landed and picked one up.
"You %^*$$^!" he shouted.
Our club chairman who was also the manager of the carpentry workshop had got one of his guys to make up some wooden clays, painted them black and given them to the trap boy with instructions on who to target.
After the restart he shot 99 ex 100 and got his revenge by grabbing our chairman's lucky shooting hat, throwing it into the air and shredding it.
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" . Kevin . "
Brilliant story, double thumbs up !
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Army cadets in my youth so No8 .22, .303, Bren and an armourers course allowed access to more exotic weapons - Sterling, pistols of several varieties. Transition to SLR 7.62, GPMG and ultimately SA80 and its derivatives.
My former employment. Smith and Wesson 4" and 2" and then a transition to Glock 9mm and H&K 5.56. Pump action shotgun including solid slug.
Opportunities to fire many many more on the way.
After a good number of years of no contact with firearms I had the opportunity to fire the 9mm Glock and H&K again and could still cut it in the handling and marksmanship stakes. All the years of drills and shooting embedded in muscle memory.
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>> used to brag that he used his for snipe
Snipe which fly fast, low and zigzag were notorious for getting shooters killed or maimed by their companions, using shotguns.
As for shooting snipe with a rifle, the mind boggles. Lethal damn thing to do l wd think.
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In Ceylon, found a straight length of cast iron pipe in the garden, stuck through a rectangular block of concrete small enough to move with some effort.
With a friend, we made a gun out of it: we would ram some sort of fruit down it and follow that with a lighted firecracker of the larger sort, then quickly hold a piece of wood over the 'breech' end. The fruit would come out too fast to see and whack into a bit of palm-thatch fencing.
I seem to remember being told to desist, but less angrily than when with the same friend we rolled the ornamental cannonballs down a steep storm drain that headed downhill towards the harbour. It was feared that workers clearing dried leaves from the storm drain might be injured or inconvenienced (although they rumbled quite loudly enough to give ample warning), and the attrition among the cannon balls, placed about the garden in threes with one on top, started to be noticed.
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Firearms - Robin O'Reliant
