On the murder of that poor little Gross girl, CCTVed walking along a towpath before disappearing: we have been told quite confidently for some time that the Latvian prime suspect had fled the country and gone to ground in Latvia where he couldn't be found or captured.
Now we are blandly informed, with no reference to any of that, that the horrible fellow hanged himself some time ago in a wood near the place where the poor child's body was found in a river. The media are really pathetic these days.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 5 Oct 14 at 19:28
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>> Now we are blandly informed, with no reference to any of that, that the horrible
>> fellow hanged himself some time ago in a wood near the place where the poor
>> child's body was found in a river. The media are really pathetic these days.
Common sense says there's a connection but correlation and causation are not necessarily bedfellows.
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>> Common sense says there's a connection but correlation and causation are not necessarily bedfellows.
>>
Indeed. I can't see there ever being a conviction in this case. But will the Police continue investigations?
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>The media are really pathetic these days
I'd give you 20 thumbs if I could for that statement.
The thing that worries me is that however reprehensible the delivered service appears to be, it sells and is seemingly what the consumers desire.
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>> it sells and is seemingly what the consumers desire.
I love the printed press and get my favourite comic daily. But you have to know how to read the scheiss. Most people don't have a clue.
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>> And on an almost linked subject:
>>
>> www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/internet-troll-who-targeted-mccanns-found-dead-in-hotel-room-30639852.html
>>
>> Waste of a life.
>>
You have to wonder about the mental state of someone who does that sort of thing in the first place.
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>> You have to wonder about the mental state of someone who does that sort of
>> thing in the first place.
Indeedy
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Robin O'Reliant referring to the apparent suicide of the McCann's troll said;-
>> You have to wonder about the mental state of someone who does that sort of
>> thing in the first place.
>>
I think this is one of those scenarios where we really can 'blame the internet'.
A few years before universal access to computers, someone like this troll would have sounded off at work or down the pub, where they would either have been ignored or told not to be so stupid and to shut up.
Nowadays almost everyone has access to a computer where they can post insulting nonsense, which will go round the world in a fraction of a second.
I must that I was surprised to see that the person was a 63 year old woman. Somehow I tend to think of that sort of thing being done by a man.
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>> Robin O'Reliant referring to the apparent suicide of the McCann's troll said;-
>>
>> >> You have to wonder about the mental state of someone who does that sort
>> of
>> >> thing in the first place.
>> >>
>>
>> I think this is one of those scenarios where we really can 'blame the internet'.
no we can't.
>> A few years before universal access to computers, someone like this troll would have sounded
>> off at work or down the pub, where they would either have been ignored or
>> told not to be so stupid and to shut up.
Unlikely, she is (was) clearly mentally disturbed,probably doesn't have a job, probably doesn't go down the pub, in fact is probably a recluse. She was a nutter, the internet didn't make her a nutter.
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I see that some on "the social networks" are up in arms about this one, blaming Sky for "hounding her to death, the murderers" and calling for the reporter to be sacked.
I wonder if in 50 years you'll have to have a licence to Twit.
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Did not the media play their part? I seem to remember newspaper articles implying that the parents were some how involved even though there was no evidence to that effect.
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>> Unlikely, she is (was) clearly mentally disturbed,probably doesn't have a job, probably doesn't go down the pub, in fact is probably a recluse. She was a nutter, the internet didn't
>> make her a nutter.
Quite right, the internet didn't make her a nutter - if that is what she was, as opposed to simply being a deeply unpleasant person - however, the internet gave her the facility to broadcast her nasty thoughts.
Which meant that, as I said, a few years ago her views would have been confined to her immediate circle.
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>> Quite right, the internet didn't make her a nutter - if that is what she
>> was, as opposed to simply being a deeply unpleasant person - however, the internet gave
>> her the facility to broadcast her nasty thoughts.
>>
>> Which meant that, as I said, a few years ago her views would have been
>> confined to her immediate circle.
Apart from hate mail, telephone calls, letters to the paper, calls to talk radio, graffiti on the walls, etc etc all tools of the stalking nutter, all of which happened before the days of social media.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 6 Oct 14 at 10:06
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>>
>> Apart from hate mail, telephone calls, letters to the paper, calls to talk radio, graffiti
>> on the walls, etc etc all tools of the stalking nutter, all of which happened
>> before the days of social media.
>>
And in an earlier age, leaving animals' heads on doorsteps, sticking pins in a wax doll, denouncing victim as a witch.
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>> I must that I was surprised to see that the person was a 63 year old woman. Somehow I tend to think of that sort of thing being done by a man.
The TV hack has been criticised for 'hounding' the troll lady. I saw the clip and she struck me as having an evasive, dysfunctional demeanour, not at all prepossessing but somehow a bit vulnerable. 'Fair enough...' How sad.
The hack was just doing his hard-nosed job though. He must be upset that the poor stupid woman has committed suicide. Anyone decent would be.
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When the press said that his bank account had not been accessed I immediately said to SWMBO that it would be difficult to generate funds and get food etc without being recognised so he would be found dead.
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>> The media are really pathetic these days. <<
I really don't think we can blame the media for this.
I'd like to ask the investigating officers why they preferred to take a jolly to Latvia on so little evidence, and without an international arrest warrant, rather than search thoroughly two places which had supposedly been searched 'thoroughly' before?
Pat
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"on so little evidence"
An already murderer caught on tape following a 14 year old girl a few minutes behind is not what I'd called 'so little evidence'.
"I'd like to ask the investigating officers..."
Me too. How does filth like that with a criminal record like that waltz through our borders?
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>>"on so little evidence"<<
...that he had gone to Latvia.
Pat
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Ooops, sorry Pat, I was ranting rather than reading. The whole affair makes my blood boil.
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>> I'd like to ask the investigating officers why they preferred to take a jolly to
>> Latvia on so little evidence, and without an international arrest warrant, rather than search thoroughly
>> two places which had supposedly been searched 'thoroughly' before?
With respect Pat I think your line of thought shows exactly why the media have some responsibility.
I've perhaps not followed this closely enough but was there any suggestion, before the body was found, that he might have killed himself? They were looking for evidence of a man possibly hiding in the woods, a corpse hung high in a tree was something different.
On what was being reported before Sunday the evidence against him seemed to consist of (i) being close in time/place to the girl's last sighting and (b) he'd murdered his wife in Latvia. Not enough, at least before a body was found, to issue an international arrest warrant.
Assuming however that suspicion was grounded then possibility that he'd gone home to Latvia or that there might be facts/evidence in knowledge of Latvian authorities seems entirely reasonable. In which case sending officers out there is not unreasonable.
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'In which case sending officers out there is not unreasonable. '
Downright irresponsible if they had not I would say. The main suspect a murderer came from Latvia. It is not unreasonable to suspect that is where he fled when he disappeared. Talking to the Latvian officers who dealt with the previous murder would have been extremely useful. Calling it a "jolly" is absurd.
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>> >> The media are really pathetic these days. <<
>>
>> I really don't think we can blame the media for this.
>>
>> I'd like to ask the investigating officers why they preferred to take a jolly to
>> Latvia o
Yes quite right, should have gone to Bermuda, thats where you find Latvians.
Honestly Pat, you don't half come out with some tosh sometimes.
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www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/crime/article4227771.ece
>>Honestly Pat, you don't half come out with some tosh sometimes<<
But I'm not the only one, am I?
Pat
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>> www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/crime/article4227771.ece
Most of that story is behind Rupert's firewall and I'm not paying to read it. What's visible though suggests the Times aping the style of the Mail.
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>> >> www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/crime/article4227771.ece
>>
>> Most of that story is behind Rupert's firewall and I'm not paying to read it.
>> What's visible though suggests the Times aping the style of the Mail.
That sort of thing is now normal.
All the armchair critics out in force, armed with a healthy dose of hindsight.
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>> That sort of thing is now normal.
>>
>> All the armchair critics out in force, armed with a healthy dose of hindsight.
I'm all too familiar with it, particularly the hindsight bit. One more reason for getting out of the public service.
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>> I'd like to ask the investigating officers why they preferred to take a jolly to
>> Latvia on so little evidence, and without an international arrest warrant, rather than search thoroughly
>> two places which had supposedly been searched 'thoroughly' before?
Publicity, in Latvia, that would come from a visit by British police might well prove useful, over and above any other considerations e.g. talking to Latvian police, relatives, known associates, etc.
As I understand it, Alice Gross's body was found underwater, buried beneath objects and well concealed. I'm surprised they found it when they did.
As for the suspect, they'd have been searching for evidence relevant to a potential murder, which you wouldn't necessarily look for up a tree 20 minutes walk away from the body, in dense woodland.
I think this investigation has been quite good, when you think to get to the suspect they had to look at CCTV and identify someone who happened to be riding a bicycle down the same path.
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But they presumably also looked at information on people who had left the country, and failed to find this man. So the thought would surely be there that in fact he might not have gone far?
I can see that background information from Latvia might have been invaluable, but is an English policeman best equipped to find it rather than a Latvian one?
There seems to be an assumption generally that foreign investigations only really get moving once a British bobby is on the case.
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>> But they presumably also looked at information on people who had left the country, and
>> failed to find this man. So the thought would surely be there that in fact
>> he might not have gone far?
Do we have much information on people who've left the country? Neither British nor French authorities pay much attention to my passport crossing out of Dover.
>> There seems to be an assumption generally that foreign investigations only really get moving once
>> a British bobby is on the case.
And there's good evidence upon which to found such an assumption. Not necessarily inefficiency of a foreign force, just that they can view stuff together and develop joint conclusions far more quickly than on phone. Even video conferencing is stilted compared with 1:1 face to face interaction.
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Do we really feel that a policeman's decision must be second guessed in every case? I have no idea whether or not a trip to Latvia was appropriate, but I'm prepared to believe that they felt it necessary and were trying to do their job rather than seekign a jolly [to Latvia for goodness sakes!]
They were investigating the case, they felt their approach was appropriate, and ultimately they succeeded.
That's all I need to know.
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>> Do we really feel that a policeman's decision must be second guessed in every case?
>> I have no idea whether or not a trip to Latvia was appropriate, but I'm
>> prepared to believe that they felt it necessary and were trying to do their job
>> rather than seekign a jolly [to Latvia for goodness sakes!]
I was a bit doubtful of Riga's suitability for a jolly too. Not exactly Cannes or Nice is it.
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>>> I think this investigation has been quite good, when you think to get to the
>> suspect they had to look at CCTV and identify someone who happened to be riding
>> a bicycle down the same path.
(Shock) - I agree with WP. (/Shock)
I assume if your looking for a body in water you start with the most likely situation - fell/pushed in and drowned. Its also often reported that corpses in water behave predictably in terms of floating or sinking and where they fetch up. Waterloo bridge was once mentioned in terms of the Thames as where you might look first.
Only once those 'quick wins' are exhausted to you go back with more men and more sophisticated kit looking for a body that is weighted etc. Obviously different if there's a blood soaked scene of crime but in this case the connection to the suspect was (and remains until DNA or other forensics come up with something) circumstantial.
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>> (Shock) - I agree with WP. (/Shock)
You feeling o.k...;-)
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Gross murder - Bromptonaut
