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More pedal power chat.
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Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 7 Nov 14 at 10:23
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You can fit lorries with more cameras than a Hollywood movie lot, more mirrors than the palace of Versailles and enough sensors to protect the Pentagon; but if cyclists keep insisting on riding so close to said vehicle that they put themselves in danger then they'll continue to get hurt or killed and it's no damn use blaming either the lorries or their drivers for it.
In any urban environment, cyclists quite understandably move through the traffic to get to the front of the queue. This forces the HGV at the head of said queue to do one of two things; either stay behind the cyclist till the next set of lights, or overtake him only to have the same thing happen again. If he holds back he gets grief from following motorists, overtakes he risks grief from cyclist even if he does so safely.
Would it not make better sense to turn the whole thing on its head, get rid of those priority boxes at junctions and forbid cyclists from filtering to the front? The argument about fumes is much reduced thanks to European legislation on emissions and HGV's accelerate much better these days than was the case 20 or so years ago.
It isn't going to happen of course but given that HGV's are a necessary evil in cities (it will take more than the Olympics to make night-time deliveries cost-effective outside of London) would it work?
I stress that as always I do not write this from an anti-cycling perspective but from a genuine desire to stop accidents happening.
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>>said William Todts, a senior policy officer for T&E. “It’s incomprehensible that we allow huge 36 tonne mammoths on our roads <<
Amazing that a senior policy officer for T&E isn't aware of accurate lorry weights:)
Pat
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Bicycles should be separated from motor traffic in London as far as possible. They should use pavements with due care and courtesy where traffic is dense and tight and there's no other provision. And paths through parks and so on.
They are really at risk in some major West End junctions at busy times, taking their lives in their hands and very worrying to drivers.
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>> Bicycles should be separated from motor traffic in London as far as possible. They should
>> use pavements .............
Obviously you are never a pedestrian AC.
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Of course I am. I just don't mind careful and courteous use of the wide pavements that abound in London by cyclists. It doesn't offend my sense of decorum, it's safer for cyclists and drivers, and I'm not tottering enough to do a double-take and fall over when I am startled by a carefully ridden bicycle a few yards away. Mobility scooters are cool too.
May be different for some, I admit. Best take someone able-bodied with you if it's like that.
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Most urban cyclists are eco terrorists, you wouldn't last five minutes.
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>> you wouldn't last five minutes.
Moved to the country a couple of years ago after 36 years in the same gaff in the Grove, ON. Walked everywhere in the neighbourhood, can't remember ever being run over by a pavement bike, and hardly ever even being surprised by a badly ridden one.
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Ah, it will be the rural little old ladies that will be the problem then, flat out at walking pace, head down and elbows out. :)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 23 Sep 14 at 14:23
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>> Bicycles should be separated from motor traffic in London as far as possible. They should
>> use pavements with due care and courtesy where traffic is dense and tight and there's
>> no other provision. And paths through parks and so on.
>>
I now cycle 12 miles a day in central London and I can assure you that that would be a recipe for carnage. Pedestrians are far more random in their movements than road traffic.
If cyclists ride sensibly and drivers drive sensibly, I really cannot see what the problem is. It is only when one or both parties are stupid that problems occur. As always, educashun is the answer.
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>> I now cycle 12 miles a day in central London and I can assure you
>> that that would be a recipe for carnage. Pedestrians are far more random in their
>> movements than road traffic.
Agreed
>> If cyclists ride sensibly and drivers drive sensibly, I really cannot see what the problem
>> is. It is only when one or both parties are stupid that problems occur. As
>> always, educashun is the answer.
There are relatively few roads in Central London where traffic is moving at a pace where there is a significant speed difference with cyclists. Park Lane, The Embankment and Marylebone/Euston Roads are examples. Even on those bus lanes often give some protection. The quieter side streets form an amazingly good network of safe routes though you need to be a regular to have the familiarity required to make full use.
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There is a country road (60mph speed limit) between Wokingham and Twyford which is straight for about a mile.
Last night there were two cyclists cycling two abreast in the twilight. They were grown men, and clearly enthusiasts as they had "all the right gear" on. But no lights or reflectives.
I passed them on the open bit where they were still reasonably visible, but further along there is quite a canopy of trees (as it gets more twisty) and they were an accident waiting to happen.
I'm usually pretty tolerant of other road users but these guys had to be complete t***s. They had to be maybe 10 minutes from their destination and it was already darkish. Because the road is so straight, not only do people drive briskly, some also do "overtakes" at very high (illegal) speeds. If these guys can't afford lights, they should have at least stayed in single file and not hogged the whole lane.
Last edited by: smokie on Tue 23 Sep 14 at 15:29
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>> If these guys can't afford lights, they should have at least stayed in single file and not hogged the whole lane.
One suspects that some cyclists are so aware of their own virtue that they assume they have divine protection. They are the same ones who, when you stop or lift off politely to avoid squashing or alarming them although they are in your road, pedal past with their noses in the air instead of giving some sort of acknowledgement. Goodness the carphounds are so damn morally superior... it's hard not to be tempted to throw a proper scare into some of them.
But that way lies the steepening slope of the dark side, so you don't.
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Darwinism will take care of most of them.
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Who will take care of their victims, the vehicle drivers suckered into killing or maiming them, who are quite likely to be prosecuted and may feel years of remorse for something that isn't their fault at all? Because a decent person does feel guilty when someone else is injured and they aren't, even if they are not at fault. I know because it's happened to me.
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I'm really enjoying cycling from Victoria up to NW10 and back every day, but then this Indian summer has been spoiling us all!
We are off to the Cologne Xmas markets in early December, and I am sorely tempted to pop the bike in the back of the van with the idea of doing a bit of touring around the city (weather permitting) while Mrs BB does her shopping.
Are the Germans strict on their cycle paths, rules, etc., or is it 'anything goes' (like over here)? Any hints or observations will be gratefully received.
Last edited by: Boxsterboy on Tue 23 Sep 14 at 16:35
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>>Are the Germans strict on their cycle paths, rules, etc.
I suspect they're very strict. Have you ever seen a German cross the road against a 'red man'?
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Walking on a cycle track in Holland is a good way of learning a few Dutch swear words. It applies in Scandinavian countries too with appropriate languages. :)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 23 Sep 14 at 17:13
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>> Walking on a cycle track in Holland is a good way of learning a few
>> Dutch swear words. It applies in Scandinavian countries too with appropriate languages. :)
>>
According to my Dutch Harley-riding friends, one of the biggest hazards faced by cyclists in Amsterdam and indeed elsewhere in Holland is British tourists who persist, understandably perhaps, in looking the wrong way when crossing the road.
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I have a vague memory of almost being flattened by a taxi on the Reeperbahn late one night because of a wrong way look. Fortunately the taxi driver was far more sober than me!
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>> I have a vague memory of almost being flattened by a taxi on the Reeperbahn
Presume you managed a little pole vault to get out of the way? ;-)
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>> According to my Dutch Harley-riding friends, one of the biggest hazards faced by cyclists in
>> Amsterdam and indeed elsewhere in Holland is British tourists who persist, understandably perhaps, in looking
>> the wrong way when crossing the road.
One of my two 'contact' accidents in 13yrs riding in central London was a foreign lass who looked left and stepped straight out in front of me.
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>> I'm really enjoying cycling from Victoria up to NW10 and back every day, but then
>> this Indian summer has been spoiling us all!
>>
The early and late summer were my favourite times for the bike commute. Time will provide you your own experience but mine was that there are actually very few occasions when it's so inclement (ie wet or cold) that cycling is impossible or downright uncomfortable. Quick drying Rohan gear and a spare set of clothes at the office dealt with most eventualities.
>> We are off to the Cologne Xmas markets in early December, and I am sorely
>> tempted to pop the bike in the back of the van with the idea of
>> doing a bit of touring around the city (weather permitting) while Mrs BB does her
>> shopping.
>>
>> Are the Germans strict on their cycle paths, rules, etc., or is it 'anything goes'
>> (like over here)? Any hints or observations will be gratefully received.
>>
Like the Dutch they're said to take it very seriously but the provision is way better than over here.
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I hope it's clear that the cyclists I complain about are the unaware rude ones, not rational types like Bromptonaut and Boxsterboy. I complain about the same faults in car drivers.
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I wonder how many aggressive or stupid cyclists are also drivers.
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>> I wonder how many aggressive or stupid cyclists are also drivers.
Or VV??
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>> >> I wonder how many aggressive or stupid cyclists are also drivers.
>>
>> Or VV??
>>
True, stupidity is easily transferred across tasks. :)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 23 Sep 14 at 20:24
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>> I'm really enjoying cycling from Victoria up to NW10 and back every day, but then
>> this Indian summer has been spoiling us all!
>>
Got my first puncture tonight! :-(
And I know exactly what caused it - some drunkards broken bottle in the road that I failed to avoid in time. Still, I found changing the inner tube a piece of cake (some mutter that changing the back tyre on a 6-speed Brompton is tricky).
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>> Got my first puncture tonight! :-(
>>
>> And I know exactly what caused it - some drunkards broken bottle in the road
>> that I failed to avoid in time. Still, I found changing the inner tube a
>> piece of cake (some mutter that changing the back tyre on a 6-speed Brompton is
>> tricky).
Bad luck. One of my most dramatic course changes ever in London was to avoid a 'bottle' in the gutter that turned out to be a cucumber...
The six speed rear is a pain, but less so than a five speed . Fewer washers around the tensioner and a less complicated path for the gear's toggle chain.
Schwalbe Marathons are hells delight to fit but once they're on you're very unlucky to need to remove them again in next three years at yours or my (former) commuter mileage.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 25 Sep 14 at 22:52
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"Schwalbe Marathons are hells delight to fit but once they're on you're very unlucky to need to remove them again in next three years at yours or my (former) commuter mileage."
Schwalbe Marathons are straightforward to fit; Schwalbe Marathon Pluses are more puncture resistant and not too difficult to fit once you have the knack.
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Aldi's winter selection of Cycling Gear goes on sale tomorrow. Need any more lycra Humph???
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Don't do Lycra. That's for people who's tyres are too skinny and ride with their bums in the air.
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I had my first real experience of cycling rage yesterday!
Cycling along London Rd in Glasgow, over the course of about 3 miles there are sets of traffic lights, maybe 5 or 6 in total.
At one set I was conscious of some shouting from a car as it passed me but didn't pay any attention. Of course at the next lights I caught up with the cars again and went up to front of queue.
The same car went past me, a Honda Civic, and this time he slowed down and shouted abuse at me that no wonder us cyclists all get ourselves killed and roared off.
Next set of lights and same scenario again, this time he launches into a full blown tirade of obscenities at me with his veins bulging in his face!!
I was quite proud of myself for not retaliating, not even acknowledging him and just cycled on where our two routes went different directions.
Unbelievable to see someone at that level of anger behind the wheel of a car. I wonder if he made it home in one piece.
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>> Of course at the next lights I caught up with the cars again and went up to front of queue.
Maybe he was unhappy with your queue jumping, and then having to wait to overtake you again further down the road.
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>> Maybe he was unhappy with your queue jumping, and then having to wait to overtake
>> you again further down the road.
It takes a particular degree of stupidity to see a cyclist filtering in traffic as queue jumping any more than other forms of overtaking.
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I think you are both right - these have the junctions marked for the cyclists - you know the ones where the council paint lines on the road but don't actually make the road any wider to accomodate?
So plenty of space on inside to go up to head of queue and plenty of space for anyone to overtake me after the lights have changed. But I do think that red mist descends on some car drivers who see that a cyclist is making as much, or more progress than them. 99% of motorists are fine, its just you will always come across the one who takes it as a personal insult that his car isn't going faster than your bike!
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>> But I do think that red mist descends on some car drivers who see that a cyclist is
>> making as much, or more progress than them.
What gets my goat is waiting patiently behind a cyclist (crawling along at the same speed as them) for enough space to become able to overtake them, then when you do finally get by and then get held up at the next junction, for the cyclist to over/undertake you in the queuing traffic and its back to square one again crawling along behind the cyclist until you can overtake them once again.
In an ideal world slow moving traffic, whether it be a cylist, tractor, digger, etc, pull over occasionally to let the flow of traffic disperse rather than building up behind them.
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Its the same principle with buses isn't it, you overtake them when they are parked and then they go down the bus lane past you and cut in front and then stop at the next stop!
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I try very hard not to get annoyed about anything much these days. It came to me many years ago that getting upset about things others do doesn't particulary make my day better or prevent those who do them from doing similarly potentially irritating things the next day and the day after that.
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>> Its the same principle with buses isn't it, you overtake them when they are parked
>> and then they go down the bus lane past you and cut in front and
>> then stop at the next stop!
>>
Bit different really since the bus has no option but to stop. This is the sort of thing I was referring to above and it can be irksome. I can fully understand cyclists wishing to make best progress and using the advantages given by their lack of width and better manouevreability but it's irritating nonetheless after the third set of lights.
I do tend to find that leisure cyclists will let you past more willingly than those engaged on time trials and the like.
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>> What gets my goat is waiting patiently behind a cyclist (crawling along at the same
>> speed as them) for enough space to become able to overtake them, then when you
>> do finally get by and then get held up at the next junction, for the
>> cyclist to over/undertake you in the queuing traffic and its back to square one again
>> crawling along behind the cyclist until you can overtake them once again.
And how much does this event add to your journey - as a percentage of the 'unimpeded' trip time?
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How much would it add to the journey of the cyclist to wait at the back of, or in, the queue of traffic?
Katie Hopkin had a view on cyclists in yesterdays Sun:)
Pat
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>> Katie Hopkin had a view on cyclists in yesterdays Sun:)
>>
>> Pat
Mining the rich seam of prejudice and stupidity previously exploited by such writing greats as Petronella Wyatt?
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"Petronella Wyatt"
Steady on, Brompto, Petronella must surely be a big leftie and a mate of yours? Her dad, Woodrow, was our local Labour MP when I was a sprog.
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WW was a classic case of drift to right. Chairman of the Tote for many years he was, in later life, an ardent supporter of Thatcher.
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>> And how much does this event add to your journey - as a percentage of
>> the 'unimpeded' trip time?
Pat's already beat me with her question.
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>> Pat's already beat me with her question.
Without either of you attempting to answer the original question!!
To answer Pat, it would make biking in London a complete waste of time while adding cyclists to them caused even bigger jams. Who wins then?
So far as Bobby G in Scotland is concerned I'd imagine he'd be back in his car. Again who wins then?
Drink with old work friends last night in a pub near Temple. Ten minutes from Euston on one og Boris's velocipedes. About the same back.
Since I was last round there a sign has appeared by Clement Danes church reminding drivers of the narrow lanes in Fleet St and asking them not to try and pass cyclists. Probably temporary due work in progress between Clement Danes and Temple Bar,
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 27 Sep 14 at 21:34
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Maybe it was your I Voted NO T shirt Bobby :-)
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ha ha maybe I was too discrete in my hi-vis top and my reflective rucksack!
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Yes, we encountered a dodgy cyclist last night. We overtook him (steadily) in a road lined with parked cars, then stopped to turn left at a junction. The said cyclist caught us up, then sat in the LHS blind-spot and decided to move off as we were about to effect the left turn. My son was driving and, suspecting that the cyclist might be a twit, I was able to warn him in plenty of time to avoid a collision.
I hope the cyclist doesn't try this on with an HGV anytime soon.
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That is stupidity unless of course the cyclist knew your son was indicating so was already planning to hold back until turn completed.
I don't trust any vehicles at a junction not to be turning left thus the reason to get to the head of the queue and get away before anyone else which is actually easier than it sounds surprising enough.
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Pal was telling me last night that he really was just tempted to knock a cyclist down last week and face the consequences later!
A local road, A71 I think, but has a steep decline down to the Garrion Bridge and then a very steep incline back up the other end.
He was behind two cyclists who insisted on riding side by side all the way down and then all the way back up the other side. Coming up the hill he reckoned their speed couldn't have been much more than 5 or 6 mph, caused a huge tailback which could have been avoided by them going single file or indeed pulling over half way up the hill.
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Saw single cyclists twice holding up queues of cars today, maybe three times, on local A roads. I wasn't a victim.
Of course a lot of cars are very wimpish about crossing the double whites to nip past. It only takes one or two, and you've got a queue. It's pathetic.
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>>a lot of cars are very wimpish about crossing the double whites to nip past.
Highway code rule 129:
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-riders-103-to-158/lines-and-lane-markings-on-the-road-127-to-132
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>> He was behind two cyclists who insisted on riding side by side all the way
>> down and then all the way back up the other side. Coming up the hill
>> he reckoned their speed couldn't have been much more than 5 or 6 mph, caused
>> a huge tailback which could have been avoided by them going single file or indeed
>> pulling over half way up the hill.
>>
That sort of behaviour is just plain selfish, and annoys me too. I regularly argue this with a pal who does a lot of road cycling, time trials etc. (Lycra, the full works).
He insists it is safer for cyclists to ride like that rather than in a line, as it makes them harder to overtake. And it is safer, but if they are only going 5 or 6 mph, they should do the decent thing and pull over, just as any slow moving vehicle (e.g. Tractor) should, when following the Highway Code.
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>> He insists it is safer for cyclists to ride like that rather than in a
>> line, as it makes them harder to overtake. And it is safer, but if they
>> are only going 5 or 6 mph, they should do the decent thing and pull
>> over, just as any slow moving vehicle (e.g. Tractor) should, when following the Highway Code.
The outermost cyclist of the pair should be little further out than a solo rider following modern training and the guidance in the semi official publication 'Cyclecraft'. The aim though is not about 'harder to overtake' but to make the motor vehicle's manoeuvre a considered overtake rather than a blind and unthinking pass.
Of course the cyclists should single up and facilitate a pass as soon as it's safe but you cannot 'pull over' (ie stop) every few hundred yards on a long ascent.
There's also an argument that says a skein of 12 cyclists singled up is more difficult to pass than if hey were 6 pairs.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 27 Sep 14 at 23:45
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>> There's also an argument that says a skein of 12 cyclists singled up is more difficult to pass than if hey were 6 pairs.
That's obvious. But whether in tight pairs or singly, if they ride a few car's lengths apart an overtaking car can zigzag past them, useful when there's some traffic coming the other way.
I'm a hell of a lot more gentle and cautious with bikes than I used to be. I never harmed one that I was aware, but I used to go fast and close. Only do that now when squeezed, an emergency as it were. If I'm going at any speed I use the opposite carriageway and give them six or seven feet. Where that's out of the question for whatever reason I slow down and mimse until there's a passing opportunity. Stands to reason.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 28 Sep 14 at 00:02
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I think it's important to only get angry about something when it's important enough to get angry about.
As for everything else, chill a bit, it'll generally go away.
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Passed a strange bike contraption on my commute this morning.
If you can imagine a long wheel base bike, so rear wheel, seat, cyclist and handlebars at the back.
Then stretched out in front was a big compartment probably enough size to fit two or three toddlers in and then in front of them was the front wheel.
Pretty sure it was only a 2 wheeler. Looked very strange and a quick google isn't throwing up anything that resembles it!
And the woman cyclist was coping very well with the size and weight - I am wondering now if it had some sort of electric input?
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The child carrying part was more sophisticated looking than this, but it was this sort of general idea
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freight_bicycle#mediaviewer/File:Bakfietsmoeder.jpeg
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Dutch 'Bakfiets' I believe. Quite a few of them in London used both as you've seen for kinder transport and as delivery for sandwiches etc.
Lsat discussed here a little under a year ago.
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=15600&m=355020
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Talking of strange bikes when I was in Vancouver I actually came across this guy cycling along a path by the waterfront. Apparently "tall biking' is a bit of a thing out there. I suppose you get to see the truck drivers when the they turn right!
trekmagazine.alumni.ubc.ca/files/2013/02/tall-bike.jpg
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Mount and dismount could be interesting.
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Indeed, even pausing while straddling the cross bar would require at least an iron will.
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Be like George Formby....lean on a lamp-post !
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Or a convenient lorry I suppose...
;-)
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I've done that thing with the fence he does towards the end.
Except he meant to do it !
;-)
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>> I've done that thing with the fence he does towards the end.
>>
>> Except he meant to do it !
... and he landed the right way up?
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While the blokes skill on the bike is admirable, I am more in awe of the video itself. Can you imagine how much pre planning and work must go into getting those shots? Given that the great weather and lighting like that is rare up there.
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> Given that the great weather and lighting like that is rare up
>> there.
>>
Typical comment from someone who knows stuff all about "up there".
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>> Typical comment from someone who knows stuff all about "up there".
>>
So the Isle of Skye is known for predictably calm bright sunny weather?
Come off it ON, or do you reckon it's a while since you and Z had a wee argument?
Last edited by: commerdriver on Fri 3 Oct 14 at 10:00
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>>
>> So the Isle of Skye is known for predictably calm bright sunny weather?
>>
More often than many people realise, it is an area of extremes. When it is good, and it often is on in the western isles and coast, it is very good. I agree it is not an area for complacency in winter.
When one of my daughters got married in Central Scotland some of the southern contingent came dressed for Siberia, it was a beautiful spring day in March, but I must admit there was a snow shower. :)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 3 Oct 14 at 10:09
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I know Scottish weather can be great, I come from Glasgow, but it can't have been an easy film to make for, it must have taken weeks to plan and shoot, especially if you include the choice of route and choice of camera angles etc. It is a really good, well made, film as well as a demonstration of incredible cycling.
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The increased use of drones for filming has provided some excellent footage from a different perspective.
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>> I know Scottish weather can be great, I come from Glasgow,
>>
>>
Having lived over that side I now make a point of never going West of Stirling without something waterproof to wear. :)
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>> Typical comment from someone who knows stuff all about "up there".
There you go again, having a poke for no good reason - you really are a d********.
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>>
>> There you go again, having a poke for no good reason - you really are
>> a d********.
>>
Truth sting a bit Z?
Excellent "Sensational steam" video.
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That too WP. His interpretation was so much more elegant.
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Just doing a 100 lines...
I do not need another bike
I do not need another bike
I do not need...
:-(
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>> Just doing a 100 lines...
>>
>> I do not need another bike
>> I do not need another bike
>> I do not need...
>>
>> :-(
>>
You know really, really, need one. :)
www.bicycling.com/content/10-outrageously-expensive-bikes?slide=1
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Now they are mainly just silly ON.
However, this...
www.tredz.co.uk/.Orange-Five-RS-Mountain-Bike-2014-Full-Suspension-MTB_65033.
I do not need another bike
I do not...
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Ta SP !
I'm not too shabby on a bike but I'm really rubbish on an iPad !
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>> Now they are mainly just silly ON.
>>
>>
I was only indicating that your addiction to expensive bikes has a long way to run, four grand for a bike is in amateur territory. :)
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Four grand for a bike? Mine cost 600 quid I thought that was expensive.
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That video is amazing on the Isle of Skye. I'm sure the chopper must have helped him to get up to the top, though. I was getting vertigo just watching it.
Last edited by: Boxsterboy on Fri 3 Oct 14 at 15:41
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>>I'm sure the chopper must have helped him to get up to the top, though
The drone certainly wouldn't !!
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Wouldn't get up there on a Chopper Bobby.
;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Fri 3 Oct 14 at 21:59
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>>Wouldn't get up there on a Chopper Bobby
Especially if you are giving someone a backie at the time!
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I suppose your link does help to make mine look more reasonable ON !
I do not need another bike
I do not...
:-)
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I do not need another bike?
Well, there is a clearly defined and universally agreed formula for the number of bikes that a man needs.
This is an official and national government approved calculation, the formula is N + 1, where N is the number of bikes that you have at present.
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>> Humph at play.....
I wonder if Humph can do that leaping from crag to crag thing, standing on front or rear wheel, stopping and jumping round on top of some towering pinnacle... It's very impressive indeed, but basically, to me, utterly terrifying.
Surely you can get a decent bike for less than $150,000? Leave out the rhinestones and gold plate and it wouldn't cost a penny over $75,000, a bargain almost.
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How can I put this? There is very little Danny McAskill does on that film that any keen, experienced mountain biker couldn't do. However, he is outrageously brave and highly skilled, what is I suppose a reasonable analogy might be that anyone keen and experienced in driving a car could in theory get round a race track with some aplomb but put them up against a professional racing driver and the differences would be huge.
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Another Safer Lorry Design - Bromptonaut
