As I came here as an immigrant, I still find some typical British behaviour very awkward. I know it is probably known as having stiff upper lip but it intrigues me why.
For example, say a manager speaking normally with fellow employees in one afternoon. Next morning, he fires them without any warning (happened to me and my colleagues)!
Husband and wife kissing each other at night but then from following morning they became separated (happened to my neighbours and friends).
Why these actions happen so suddenly? If someone is making something wrong, surely s/he should be given a chance to discuss and rectify?
Also, how do people manage to hide their expression so well?
For those who are bit technically minded, in engineering a material can be brittle or ductile. A ductile material bends and gives plenty of warning before failing – where as a brittle material just falls apart (often catastrophically). Such designs are considered bad in engineering. So why in social life people behave so abruptly?
I asked this questions to many (Britons who are born ad brought up here) but nobody could answer it. Some said it is usually to avoid any confrontation.
But I thought little argument is far better than big bang style explosion.
So what is the opinion of forum members?
|
The British* commonly aren't very good at being direct. And when they try it, too often they just stubbornly and aggressively argue their fixed point of view, which is an entirely different thing.
In other words, they struggle to have a discussion without it becoming an argument that they then have to win. If they can't do that, having painted themselves into a corner, the ball goes over the wall.
*Or if it stops me being called something-ist, people from a British environment.
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 23 May 14 at 13:24
|
>>For example, say a manager speaking normally with fellow employees in one afternoon.
>>Next morning, he fires them without any warning (happened to me and my colleagues)!
What would be the alternative? Sulking a bit first? Being a bit withdrawn for a few days? Making you wonder what was wrong and start to fear for your jobs before firing you?
>>Husband and wife kissing each other at night but then from following morning they
>>became separated
Again, sulking a bit first? Being a bit off and argumentative?
It makes perfect sense to me. Its the right time to fire you, or it isn't. If it isn't, then why behave differently? If it is, then fire you.
You don't say which culture you come from, I;d be interested to know. And how would the firing example be managed there?
|
Good grief! - what clown gave you a frownie I wonder, and why?
I think the answer to your question, movi, could be down to 'The British Reserve' + a dollop of restraint.
A disinclination to show emotion or feelings - a tendency to 'bottle things up' ... and then the floodgates open!!
I suppose I'm like that, I'll take so much, and then, well, watch out :(
But I'm becoming older and, dare I say it, a tad wiser and, learning to use (not lose) my head, more :)
|
>> Good grief! - what clown gave you a frownie I wonder, and why?
Not me, there seem to be a lot of them abroad these days.
movi, what I find weird is that you say you're an immigrant but voted UKIP, according to your post on the UKIP thread. Now that's what I don't understand. Pull up the drawbridge, what? My immigrant missus feels distinctly uncomfortable this morning and is rumbling about emigrating. Can't say I blame her. Thin end of the wedge and all that. Bit like old Roger enjoying his years in the sun thanks to the EU and then wanting to take the privilege from the rest of us.
Sorry. I'm going way off thread.
|
...Not me, there seem to be a lot of them abroad these days
...and Stu's afraid they want to come and live next door to him.
};---)
|
The examples you give are not all examples of 'British' culture movilogo. The manager firing people without warning is a case in point: it is business culture, with its heavily sociopathic side, just as American or German as it is British.
The couple about to split but behaving normally is something else again: most couples consistently hide dissension from friends and acquaintances until the final decision is made. No one wants to be bothered by well-meaning curiosity when their marriage is in trouble.
Finally, a lot of British people are badly brought up and insensitive. A late Jamaican friend was amazed by the ability of colleagues (he worked for the Post Office) to make racist remarks to each other, freely using racist terms, in his presence just as if he wasn't there. Usually someone would say to him in an aside: 'I don't mean you mate, you're different', or words to that effect. He used to think that was very funny, bitterly funny. He wasn't a man to be trifled with. He was married to an Englishwoman but had reservations about the British as a nation.
I don't suppose this helps much.
|
|
The business example is also governed by strict rules about notice and consultation. A manager who tipped the wink to an employee in advance of the official process could get into a lot of trouble, accused of favouritism or worse. That bit is about fairness to all employees, not a British cultural thing.
|
>> You don't say which culture you come from, I;d be interested to know. And how would the firing example be managed there?
I came from India. Even 10 years back, firing someone from job was only limited when someone did a massive mischief or company folded. Even now, most Indian companies don't fire employees as much as British/American companies do. Also, if an Indian company fires employees, that news is often leaked much ahead in advance!
Although I say firing culture is getting "popularity" in India too in recent times.
>> Good grief! - what clown gave you a frownie I wonder, and why?
I can't understand that either!!
>> movi, what I find weird is that you say you're an immigrant but voted UKIP, according to your post on the UKIP thread.
That proves UKIP is not a racist party, isn't it? :o)
I voted them because I support their policies - simple as that.
For example, I see no problem in controlled migration allowing skilled people to settle here (that is how I came here) however I don't support benefit scoungers.
Rest assured, lots of my friends (=immigrants) support UKIP too.
>> The couple about to split but behaving normally is something else again: most couples consistently hide dissension from friends and acquaintances until the final decision is made.
That is exactly what I don't understand. For example, I often argue with my wife and we often shout at each other (I'm sure my neighbors can hear us shouting but fortunately they don't understand our language). But in my neighbors case, we never heard them ever shouting or argumenting! That's why when they split it came as a shock to us. This is not an isolated case. Many of my immigrants friends experienced same with their neighbors/friends too.
|
Chap on the wireless (LBC Radio) this morning, called Mohammed, came here from Kuwait, he voted UKIP for the same reasons as you movi ;)
Perhaps we need to start a UKIP thread.
:o}
|
WdB's right about rendundancy. No benefit at all in warnings etc., and could create all sorts of difficulty.
I'm no expert on marriage, only been 37 years, and no experience of divorce at all.
But the most recent separation amongst our friends came as a surprise to me and seemed to involve no falling out at all.
Both highly intelligent, kind people, two children aged 6 & 11. Story is the old "drifted apart" line, getting on very well now we have acknowledged it, etc.
Sounds appalling to me. Surely everybody has 'distant' periods? Then you just make more effort. A good bit of advice somebody gave me was when things are strained, think about what makes the other person happy, not yourself. Seems to work.
'course, the casual observer would think I was under the thumb:)
|
>> A good bit of advice somebody gave me was when things are strained, think about
>> what makes the other person happy, not yourself. Seems to work.
But if it isn't reciprocated, then surely resentment will build.
|
>> >> A good bit of advice somebody gave me was when things are strained, think
>> about
>> >> what makes the other person happy, not yourself. Seems to work.
>>
>> But if it isn't reciprocated, then surely resentment will build.
I've been lucky, haven't I?
|
>>'course, the casual observer would think I was under the thumb:) <<
I would agree with the casual observer:)
Here is the reason for my bit of philosophy/psychology.....
Working only with men for many years, I have always found those who will never miss a chance to stand up to me are the ones who are under the thumb at home.
I think you fit that bill Mapmaker!
....and long may it continue since Zero is missing;)
Pat
|
>> >>'course, the casual observer would think I was under the thumb:) <<
>>
>> I would agree with the casual observer:)
Pat, I think that's the second time lately you seem to have confused me with Mapmaker!
Can you mix me up with someone less argumentative? I'll be getting a complex.
|
You are of course, absolutely right Manatee, I do apologise!
My excuse is speed reading due to too much work and not enough time.
I actually thought Mapmaker was human there for a minute.....
I know you are!
Pat
|
>> For example, I often argue with my wife and we often shout at each other
You sound like a real charmer.
Do you think arguing actually achieves anything? Try some grown-up discussion. I guess the answer to your OP is we British like to be more grown up about things. That's why we conquered the world. (Oh yes, lots of Anglo Saxons argue, of course we do; but we don't hold it out as a virtue.)
As for the 'firing'. You're not being sacked for underperformance (I presume); you're being made redundant owing to overcapacity. Why expect your manager to be an absolute brute to you for the days beforehand? He's not getting rid of you because he doesn't like you!
|
>> You sound like a real charmer.
>>
>>
>> Do you think arguing actually achieves anything? Try some grown-up discussion.
Are you, or have you ever been married?
Sometimes rows just happen, something said carelessly or misinterpreted followed by an over reaction. Nobody feels better or more adult for it and you still need to resolve the underlying issue. OTOH it can' like a storm, clear the air.
I know other people who avoid it (or appear to) but plenty more who have blazing rows - or are evidently sulking after one.
|
>> Do you think arguing actually achieves anything?
It is like releasing the steam. If pressure builds up, the boiler will burst. So better vent some anger which helps to cool mind down.
|
Movilogo, I can't explain the differences you mention between our cultures and understand your confusion.
I do love to explore those differences though and they have fascinated me since many years ago I worked in Leicester and used to have long discussions with my colleagues from India.
I grew to admire their treatment of members of their family in old age among many other of your traditions.
...it also cultivated my love of proper home made samosa's too!
Pat
|
There is an enormous difference between the show people put on for observers, and how they are in reality or to the select group privileged to see the inner meanings.
You have to realise that a lot of English (and I think this might be an English thing, not British) communication is done by understatement, contrary statement, tiny almost imperceptible inflections in voice, and eye contact.
Thus a couple can be kissing amicably, but his eyes say for a flickering second "I'm ditching you in the morning" and hers say "Oh God, he's been seeing her again".
Watch Noel Coward plays for a little glimpse at English communication.
"Are you happy ?" means persuade me you really are happy,
"Terribly happy" means utterly miserable, but I'm not going to say so.
"Very flat, Norfolk" means the sparkle has gone out of life since we parted, but I'm going to go on spending the rest of my life pretending to myself that I made the right choice.
"We're going to be making redundancies, details will be announced next week" said with the faintest of eye movement or twinkle, means "But you're OK, but keep it quiet and I didn't say anything".
Also it has a different vocabulary depending on social class. Some will be impervious to one code, but instantly cotton on to another.
Families can vary slightly too.
Sorry, it's a code you can only be born to. :)
|
Movi,
As mentioned above, your examples come from very different spheres of Brtish (or perhaps Anglo-American is a better description these days?) life - business and domestic.
While its true that the laws of the land and company rules cover what can and cannot be said to employees about redundancy, I suspect the practice of saying nothing until the "you're fired!" annoucement has more to do with getting the last ounce of work out of the employee(s)about to be fired, and also preventing them from taking know-how from the employer - or revenge on him!
As for imploding relationships, the British (and Irish) aren't very good at expressing their feelings so we tend to learn the bad habit of staying quiet and brooding on preceived wrongs instead while pretending all is well. And many would see a man shouting at a woman as ungentlemanly or disrepectful. Dare I say our American cousins are better at saying what they want, if not so good at doing so tactfully, which only leads to a different type of break-up?!
|
|
I have not been to India but have known a good many Indians, friends, colleagues and workers. Theirs seems to be an open, colourful, jolly and affably garrulous culture so I can see the adjustment must have been hard. On the other hand, they seem to integrate well with us "noli me tangere" Brits. In addition, an Indian friend who made the same move found his considerable football and cricket skills made him a "mate" very quickly.
|
>> seem to integrate well with us "noli me tangere" Brits.
It's true... even in rush-hour tube carriages the British do their damnedest never to touch anyone else. In Africa no one minds a bit, which makes the sardine experience a lot less stressful once you get used to it. I would imagine India is much the same.
|
>>
>>
>> It's true... even in rush-hour tube carriages the British do their damnedest never to touch
>> anyone else.
You obviously never travelled on the Waterloo & City line in the seventies then. Sardines lead an easy life by comparison. :)
|
>> You obviously never travelled on the Waterloo & City line in the seventies then.
I certainly did, and other sardine tins too. Sweaty and horrid.
My point though was that the constant effort by everyone to touch others as little as possible makes the experience unnecessarily stressful. Realistic Africans (and I imagine Indians) don't mind so everyone can relax, while keeping a weather eye open for pickpockets.
|
>>the constant effort by everyone to touch others as little as possible
Seriously? On the Tube, anyway? That's why nobody ever makes eye contact, as the body contact isn't optional!
|
"……….. the British do their damnedest never to touch anyone else. "
Yeah, but …………. risk getting sued for my every penny???
|
Something about British culture I don’t understand - Manatee
