www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56414966
Plans announced to get the next roll out of broadband, anyone look like it's going to be rolled out in their area?
Think you'd benefit from it?
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With an already existing .3gb line, and not using all of it, who the hell needs that speed at home?
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I was thinking at some point, domestically , it just becomes numbers. Do people with 50 mbps notice the difference over 25 mbps?
I've just done a speed test on my mobile, I got 2.8 mbps when connected to the WiFi.
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>> I was thinking at some point, domestically , it just becomes numbers. Do people with
>> 50 mbps notice the difference over 25 mbps?
Yes, would you notice a difference with 300mbps over 150mbps, not much. 1gbps over 300 mbps? No chance you are now noticing latency and speed from the rest of the net.
However we have contention to deal with, If the money is spent on increasing bandwidth at the street cab, increasing capacity at the exchange* and backbone.
*Exchange, what a lovely old fashioned concept now
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>> >> I was thinking at some point, domestically , it just becomes numbers. Do people
>> with
>> >> 50 mbps notice the difference over 25 mbps?
>>
>> Yes, would you notice a difference with 300mbps over 150mbps, not much. 1gbps over 300
>> mbps?
How so, could you give an example? We get pretty low speeds so it's a bit hard to imagine what difference it would make day to day.
>> However we have contention to deal with, If the money is spent on increasing bandwidth
>> at the street cab, increasing capacity at the exchange* and backbone.
>>
>>
Not sure what you mean?
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>> How so, could you give an example? We get pretty low speeds so it's a
>> bit hard to imagine what difference it would make day to day.
If you have it, you use it. I can, for example stream a netflix and a prime video on two devices at 4k with no buffering... I have no idea what buffering means now and havent for several years. That applies at 150 or 300mbps
>> Not sure what you mean?
Its all very well having 50mbps at your home, but if the link from backbone to the street cabinet is limited to 300mbps your 50mbps is going to fall through the floor when all 50 people attached to it decide to stream top gear on iplayer.. Thats called contention.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 19 Mar 21 at 18:14
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>>Its all very well having 50mbps at your home, but if the link from backbone to the street cabinet is limited to 300mbps your 50mbps is going to fall through the floor when all 50 people attached to it decide to stream top gear on iplayer.. Thats called contention.
I suffer from country level contention. Chile differentiates between national and international use, I know how daft that sounds. So the speeds I get within Chile are typically a factor of 10 faster than speeds I will get to a non-Chilean website.
And at peak times buffering is the norm on international sites.
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Come a long way since Mr Strowger.
Hard to see the need for lots of Gigabits per second right now, but look how the numbers have grown since you and I started in this game. Even in the internet era I happily used dial up internet to get at emails in the 80s. We couldnt have imagined the data requirements that some people have even now never mind in 10 or 20 years from now.
My younger lad has just upgraded to fttp connection. His reasoning was that with 2 adults working mainly from home, 2 growing boys who will have data needs pretty soon, he will have domestic needs for potentially 4 different streaming devices for entertainment/gaming in addition to work needs before too long
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Mother/sister in-law live in a tiny village, and have a thrilling 1Mbps, occasionally 1.5Mbps on a good day via some ancient thing at a fiver a month. Fibre finally went into the village a few months ago.
Me: I have 200Mbps via fibre, how do you manage with 1Mbps down a manky phone line?
Them: It would cost us £35 a month to swap to the 20Mbps the fibre is offering. Rather spend that on chocolate thanks.
Me: But how does everything work? Surely it's impossibly slow?
Them: We have one laptop. It works for a bit of web browsing, and some emails. We even run Zoom and it works ok.
Me: Working from home?
Them: That happens two days a week, works fine. It's only clicking some buttons on a remote web site and filling in some details anyway.
Me: Aren't you interested in iPlayer, or Netflix, etc?
Them: No.
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Whereas my Virgin router is currently showing over 40 connected devices
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>> Come a long way since Mr Strowger.
>>
>> Hard to see the need for lots of Gigabits per second right now, but look
>> how the numbers have grown since you and I started in this game. Even in
>> the internet era I happily used dial up internet to get at emails in the
>> 80s. We couldnt have imagined the data requirements that some people have even now never
>> mind in 10 or 20 years from now.
godamn, history kicks in. I can still se the big old BT standalone modem I acquired attached to home built 8086 pc running dos attached to a BBS at a staggering 300 baud. 1200/75 seemed like a dream let along the later 2400, 4800 and WOW 56k. The dial up screech of a connecting modem with live with me forever.
Mind you in the early 80's I was fixing 8100's in banks that had another 6 banks hanging off it with a 2400 synchronous modem back to bank HQ. They managed fine.
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You've set me off.
From about 1987 I suppose it would be, I did computer conferencing on my OUBS course. Pre World Wide Web. I used a 2.4Kbps BT modem that I bought second hand in an auction for £40. It was in a lovely steel crackle-painted cabinet and I believe it cost four figures when new. Ordinary phone line, pre-DSL, and when I received messages they appeared one letter at a time. I'm sure I recall being told some time later when we had consumer-friendly dial up internet that the fabled "laws of fuzacks" meant that 56kbps was the absolute limit for getting data down a phone line. They really believed it too. A friend of mine with a very large brain worked for BT and was later involved in developing broadband technology.
When broadband arrived some people in my village got 4Mbps. I never got more than 2. Some are still on ADSL and they seem to be getting better speeds than before- perhaps the contention has moved to fibre?
I've just opted for <66Mbps FTTC from <38, really with contention in mind. All our TV at the moment is streamed, some in 4k, and there are predictable times when we get a bit of buffering although I think it is probably the server that is slow rather then the network. I should really speak to my friend with the big domed head about it, he's still inventing things even though he is retired.
Gigabit internet is real of course but it still seems like science fiction to me. As do smart phones. It all depends where you started from, so to me it's amazing to think that my 35 year-old son can have no real memory of pre-WWW time. 4 and 6 year-old grandchilders use tablets, I didn't have a pocket calculator until I was an adult.
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>> Mind you in the early 80's I was fixing 8100's in banks that had another
>> 6 banks hanging off it with a 2400 synchronous modem back to bank HQ. They
>> managed fine.
>>
British Shipbuilders (remember them) wanted to scan documents into an 8100 in the early 1980s but abandoned that idea when I told them how much storage each scanned page would take and how long it would take to send a scanned page from one shipyard to another.
Funnily enough, by the end of the 1980s that was quite a practical possibility, just not on the same technology.
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I'd say that faster delivery to your door will reduce the likelihood of congestion on the internet in general. so you may not really notice it massively better but it ought not get any worse as traffic keeps increasing, for instance with working from home.
For browsing and sending email I don't think you'd notice much difference. When it comes to downloading & streaming stuff you would - they would be able to stream higher quality content without buffering, or you could download entire films in not very long at all.
The Internet of Things (incl home automation) adds some overhead to the internet. The traffic from this is probably individually minute but collectively is probably growing quite quickly, and reduce slow response to commands It's no use asking Alexa to turn on a light but it taking 30 seconds for it to happen. Have you ever tried getting any sense out ofg Google Home or Alexa when the internet isn't present?
By default all the brands of switches and lights I use - mostly Sonoff, Tuya, Xiaomi - would send even a simple on command to a light via the manufacturers server, which for some is in China. So one aim of the Home Assistant I run is to not be dependent on the internet for controlling devices in your household, and I'm sure this will become more common, though with a more reliable and fast internet maybe it's less important.
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For browsing and sending email I don't think you'd notice much difference. When it comes
>> to downloading & streaming stuff you would - they would be able to stream higher
>> quality content without buffering, or you could download entire films in not very long at
>> all.
Yeah get that it would help with reducing buffering and when streaming stuff. It can be a bit iffy here, an example watching the short (2-3min) news clips on the bbc seems to cause all manner of problems. Lots of buffering and sometimes I just give up. However I'm not sure I'd need gigaspeed BB to solve that.
>> The Internet of Things (incl home automation) adds some overhead to the internet. The traffic
I can't say any of that stuff is on my radar to do. A light switch is fine for me :)
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 19 Mar 21 at 18:15
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My point was really that all of that stuff is load on the internet generally and can cause congestion, so if those who do use it get it delivered quicker then it relieves the pressure for the rest.
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Yeah I get that, I guess it depends on how popular that thing becomes.
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Luddite question..
I’m with EE, paying £19 pcm for landline and BB. No call package. I’ve no idea what my BB ‘download speed’ should be. When I check it, via various websites and different days/times it averages between 10.0 and 10.5.
Upload speed, whatever that is, between 0.48 and 0.9.
Bear in mind I live in a small village, but there’s a small exchange green box on the road side 1/2 mile away where OpenReach seem to live.
Is that download speed sufficient to stream stuff should I ever subscribe to Netflix ?
TIA
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Yes, I don't see why not. On a good day we get similar speeds and don't have too many issues with netflix, iplayer etc.
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Thanks.
Just seems very low... my brother tells me he has a Virgin package and gets 100 Mbps ( I think they’re called)
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It's not perfect of course, netflix isn't too bad, iplayer can be more iffy. It does seem to buffer more and it does get the sync between the audio and visual out reasonable often. But I've gotten use to it.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 19 Mar 21 at 10:58
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I think most providers will adjust the quality of what they download according to the speed and quality of the line you are on. So yon your line you might get an adequate SD-like experience but not 4K or HD. I think many of them do a free trial (I know Britbox does) so best to try before you buy... Of course just ordinary YouTubes would give you some feeling for how good it's likely to be.
Also your device can make a difference. I am on a 200mb connection but even with that the newer 4K Firestick works a lot better than the previous version - presumably because it has a more powerful processor and probably more memory.
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I think the only thing I've seen that really needs about 80Mbps or more for a decent experience (yes, 80) is something like Google Stadia, even if they say you can get away with less.
If you don't know what that is, and don't play games, don't bother to look it up, don't think it will be around much longer. But similar services like the Nvidia equivalent will be.
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>>When I check it, via various websites and different days/times it averages between 10.0 and 10.5. Upload speed, whatever that is, between 0.48 and 0.9.
About par for a midrange copper (not fibre to the cabinet) connection. I'm assuming that it is copper (ADSL/2) in which case the upstream speed (that's the data you send up the wire, not the stuff that comes down - the two directions work at different speeds, and for most people, download is driven much harder) would max out at around 1.0 anyway, as a limitation of the ADSL technology.
You can check the theoretical speed for your line by using the BT broadband checker here:
www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/
..and putting your phone number in.
Be aware that it produces a range of values, and where you sit in those is not guaranteed.
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The small cathedral city where we're moving to has it. It arrived in the first house with were STC on before Christmas. That purchase fell through, the new property that we're now STC on doesn't have it but has up to 69mb, as Zero says, who needs more. We certainly don't - we're "rural" where we are now and have an useful 30mb (I could get more by moving the router next to the master socket) and that's fine for what we do, streaming TV is in Hi Def and no buffering
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Ive just had a chat with EE. My 10-10.5 Mbps download speed is what I should expect in my postcode for copper.
They ‘guarantee’ 33.6 if I upgrade to Fibre...total cost £24pcm ( an extra £5) but includes weekend calls which I won’t use. Reverts back to copper and £19pcm on request within 14 days if I can’t get that 33.6 speed.
So does that mean that I have fibre running to my master socket as well as copper ? Property built 1999. Apologies if it’s a numpty question
Interesting nonetheless and garage door repainting procrastination comes to the fore again
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That will be FTTC (fibre to the cabinet) with the same copper connection from the cabinet to the house.
Effectively, they will switch you from a copper exchange to cabinet connection to a faster, less lossy fibre one, but your "last mile" remains the same. (The distance from the cabinet - i.e. the remaining copper length, is the overall speed constraint).
(TBH, I don't think it will be long before all the exchange to cabinet connections will be fibre, but "slugged" if you don't elect for a "fibre" service).
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Fri 19 Mar 21 at 13:27
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>> The small cathedral city where we're moving to has it.
Oo you off to St Davids?
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>> Oo you off to St Davids?
I was playing 'Where's RP moving to now' as well but my counter landed on St Asaph.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 19 Mar 21 at 14:22
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My first thought was Saint Davids.
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Citywire have installed a fibre cable along our whole street, and over a large part of Bury St Edmunds. Every house they pass has a junction box in the street. No idea when they will try and sell their services.
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So I’m now paying an extra £5 for fibre to cabinet, obviously still copper line to home.
EE guarantee a download speed of 33.6 Mbps or money back...
Using 4 different speed tests, daily for the past four days, download speeds, at the same time/day, vary from 23.01 (Speedtest.net) to 35.6 (Thinkbroadband.com)
Upload speeds also vary, same time/date....9.6 (Broadbandperformance.co.uk) to 3.4 (Thinkbroadband.com)
Please can anyone explain these variances, or recommend a reliable BB speed test. Regards.
Ned Ludd.
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EE have their own speed checker in their broadband testing app it seems, so one would imagine that is what they use for measurement and guarantee purposes?
shop.ee.co.uk/broadband/ee-home-app
Last edited by: Crankcase on Sat 10 Apr 21 at 11:49
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I didn’t know that
Thanks
Ned
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>> EE have their own speed checker in their broadband testing app it seems, so one
>> would imagine that is what they use for measurement and guarantee purposes?
The one that has "a higher priority, dedicated server, tapped to the backbone, that uses UDP rather than TCPIP, all meaning it will ALWAYS appear higher than the web" Testing app?
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Mate in Edinburgh has just got Giga speed broadband via Vodafone - he has ethernet cables going to each room now and is seeing 950+Mbps (download AND upload) with ping 8ms.
For gameplaying he has noticed much faster graphics quality on some multiplayer online games.
I have Virgin 200 and see 210-220Mbps DL/21Mbps UL with 22-23ms ping.
Both checked using www.speedtest.net (ookla)
M-Lab usually has me about 5Mbps less when I check them back-to-back.
I suspect my old PC wouldn't see much of a boost with faster DL speeds
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>> The one that has "a higher priority, dedicated server, tapped to the backbone, that uses
>> UDP rather than TCPIP, all meaning it will ALWAYS appear higher than the web" Testing
>> app?
Even more likely to be the one they use for guarantee purposes then.
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Zero...and so it seems.
Using the BB speed checker on the EE app, it shows circa 39Mbps. The four other speed checking sites are all considerably lower...22, 23, 27 & 35.
It is an improvement on my previous download ( and upload) speeds so for the sake of an extra £4 pcm I’ll continue with it.
I’ve a collection of old routers from previous BB suppliers, I don’t want them to go into landfill..what do folks do with them, and can they be recycled ?
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>> I’ve a collection of old routers from previous BB suppliers, I don’t want them to
>> go into landfill..what do folks do with them, and can they be recycled ?
All councils should have a facility to dispose of WEEE (Waste Electric and Electronic Equipment)
Either by collection at kerbside with your dustbin (small electrical items such as kettles, toasters, routers, etc), or at a local recycling centre where they also take garden rubbish, etc.
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>> I’ve a collection of old routers from previous BB suppliers, I don’t want them
>> to go into landfill..what do folks do with them, and can they be recycled ?
Call EE (150) and they'll sort it for you.
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I have re-used one as an additional hub and Wireless Access Point, (reconfigured and ethernet connected to the main router).
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Our local council won't collect it but there is a facility at the tip for small electricals. Quite important with computery bits as the boards contains some substances which are better off not in landfill.
You could try giving them away on Freegle. Job lot.
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Around here you put it outside your gate with a sign saying "No tocar".
I have put something worthless outside the gate and by the time I walked past the camera screens in the hallway I could see it had already gone. And I live in a quiet road.
Got rid of a broken and pretty much unfixable dishwasher two weeks ago and it went in about 2 hours. And we're in lockdown.
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Made me smile....
My regular volunteering slot restarts Friday...sorting donations at my local collection point.
It’s going to be manic. Good stuff. Awful stuff. But all good fun.
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Giga speed broadband - Zero
