Youngest is now off to Uni and a laptop has been requested. He is will be reading Mathematics and will be doing some programming to create mathematical models.
I am surprised as to how much they cost now. I got a Toshiba i5 about 6 years ago for £350 now the equivalent is about £600! (Intel graphics, 500gb HD and 8gb ram)
Obviously i3 laptops are cheaper. How does an i3 from today compare to an i5 from six years ago or should I bite the bullet and go for an i5?
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Go for the I3 if you can bump up the memory to say 12/16Gb & it will be fine.
He will be playing around with small amounts of data & whether it takes 30 seconds to run or 3 seconds is neither here nor there - nothing like the demands of playing games on the PC.
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I bought a refurbished Dell Vostro i5 earlier this year (model 3559) to replaced a similar Lenovo i5 that gave up the ghost from:
www.europc.co.uk/outlet/laptop
and am very happy with it, just as I was with a purchase from the company three or four years ago.
The laptop was supposed to be "refurbished" but, it was very clear, it was in mint condition, had obviously never been used and I had to setup and update Windows 10 to the latest version before I was able to use it.
It also came with a free Dell three year business warranty...:-) Cost £347 with delivery.
There are various Dell models on the above link and one is almost certain to prove of interest.
Last edited by: Stuartli on Thu 24 Aug 17 at 16:05
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An i3 is probably going to be fast enough to be honest. As said make sure it comes with plenty of RAM or can be upgraded.
Laptop will be more because the £ is weaker against the $ for starters.
One thing to consider is the size and weight of the laptop if it's going to be carried into uni. A 15.6" laptop is usually a lot cheaper than a 14" laptop but will weight considerably more. Battery life is another consideration.... as is insurance.
I'd personally want to try it out to see what the keyboard, trackpad, etc. is like.
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Many laptops these days come with RAM that cannot be accessed without pretty much taking them apart.
My current Acer, for instance has the RAM slots under the keyboard, not in a convenient little slot with a removable cover on the bottom. I bought extra, upgraded, RAM from Amazon at same time as I ordered the laptop, (not from Amazon), only to have to return it as I could not fit it.
It also appears there is no way to remove the battery!
Do check!
Last edited by: Roger. on Thu 24 Aug 17 at 21:57
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>> Many laptops these days come with RAM that cannot be accessed without pretty much taking them apart.
Most Apple laptops and desktops have soldered RAM. No upgrade option. I am sure non Apple products are similarly guilty.
My laptop for work had 16GB as standard and the accessible slop allows 2 x 8GB to be added. Blooming heavy laptop overall. It is a Quad Core i7 with nVidia graphics.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 25 Aug 17 at 02:34
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I bought extra, upgraded, RAM
>> from Amazon at same time as I ordered the laptop, (not from Amazon), only to
>> have to return it as I could not fit it.
Why didn't you buy the upgraded one to start with?
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>> Why didn't you buy the upgraded one to start with?
Cheaper for the OP to upgrade it himself I would imagine.
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This "one day only priced" offer dropped into my mailbox just after I read this thread.
www.ijtdirect.co.uk/toshiba-c40-notebook-laptop-windows-10-42033/
Older spec but cheap enough.
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>> Why didn't you buy the upgraded one to start with?
'cos it was dirt cheap refurbished (actually it was new!) from Argos outlet. Under £250 for core i5 Intel and half decent RAM and HDD storage on a 15" laptop.
As said the extra RAM was cheap enough itself and I would have had to have paid close to £350/£400 if bought fitted as standard.
Anyway - the laptop is running well on W10, latest upgrade and is the fastest to boot up of any laptop I've had. It's quite a lot quicker than my wife's Sony Vaio which DID cost close to £400 at the time.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 30 Aug 17 at 02:02
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A further point about the Dell Vostro is that it has, for a laptop, quite remarkably good sound quality - so much so in fact that it has a MAXXAudio sound equaliser.
it's good enough to listen to most music recordings and excellent when watching videos or television programmes.
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www.saveonlaptops.co.uk has a lot, is easy to search, and will provide a benchmark for comparison. I've had a couple of Lenovos from them that were better priced than elsewhere.
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My employment deals with the issue and maintenance of IT equipment (100 users) and the best tip is to find a model with a solid state hard drive (SSD). Quite possibly the best thing you can do guarantee consistent performance regardless of processor or huge amounts of RAM.
Granted you only get 120GB (111GB actual) equivalent for a traditional type 500GB (465GB actual) HDD for the same money. Assuming OS/programs takes 25GB of the disk, still a fair chunk for usage.
My personal laptop (a work cast off for gratis) is a 2010 vintage Dell Latitude, with an early gen i5 (only dual core) with a Kingston SSD and never had a moments issue. A £40 battery added and is not far off a £400 laptop from PC World/Currys.
If you cant source one in your price range with fitted, see if the disk slot is easily accessible with a panel underneath - plenty of free tools to image the HDD and sap over to SSD in less than an hour (Veeam Backup and Restore one I use).
Tons of videos on YouTube showing how to upgrade most models of laptops, including where to swap RAM, disk etc.
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The Dell i5 Vostro I acquired comes with a link to an online service manual detailing how to take it apart to remove or replace items such as memory modules, hard drives, WLAN card, speakers, keyboard, main board, display etc.
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This discussion is paralleled by on on the parent's and guardian's Facebook page for our grand-children's school.
The most widely recommended is a Mac Book Air, on the basis that it is very portable, will do all they want up to sixth form and will still be fine for university later.
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Haha yeah right, technology will remain the same all that time and the child will not hanker after the latest and greatest gizmo to come along in the next 8 or so years, whatever that happens to be.
Just make sure it supports Daydream virtual reality, ideally. That's all I'm saying :-)
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>> Haha yeah right, technology will remain the same all that time and the child will
>> not hanker after the latest and greatest gizmo to come along in the next 8
>> or so years, whatever that happens to be.
I have had, and indeed I am typing this on, my 2011 macbook air. It is the ideal laptop bar none with extraordinary longevity in both form and function. You pay for it of course.
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Yeah but your'e not 14 are you...
Are you?? :-)
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>>I have had, and indeed I am typing this on, my 2011 macbook air. It is the ideal laptop bar none with extraordinary longevity in both form and function
Why is that? Is it over-engineered to start with, or is it that subsequent versions of the OS don't increase the resource requirements? Or that there is not the same need to upgrade the OS?
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>> Why is that? Is it over-engineered to start with,
Very probably, it is indeed fantastically well engineered and built. Hence the inflated cost.
>> or is it that subsequent versions
>> of the OS don't increase the resource requirements?
Its been upgraded once with a major version, and didn't suffer degradation.
>>Or that there is not the same
>> need to upgrade the OS?
I have ignored a further major upgrade version, with no ill effects.
So in summary, yes to all your points.
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As I said above, or maybe below, computer hardware for home and normal business use does not need to be any more powerful than around 2009 ish, a good Core 2 Duo set up can plough through anything other than intensive CAD type stuff or the latest high games. And even early i5s etc really wiz along.
I guess the same can be said for Mac as PC.
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>> As I said above, or maybe below, computer hardware for home and normal business use
>> does not need to be any more powerful than around 2009 ish,
Indeed, but being a laptop it needs to be very well engineered and physically durable. Most are too cheap to meet that requirement.
Mac OS is not as resource hungry as windows, and does not gradually turn into a sticky slow quagmire that windows always does over time.
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My 2011 Dell is virtually as good as new despite extensive use.
I think you can keep Windows in good lick.
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>> Mac OS is not as resource hungry as windows, and does not gradually turn into
>> a sticky slow quagmire that windows always does over time.
>>
I don't think that's been true of Windows since Windows 7. In the bad old days you had to reinstall Windows every few months to maintain performance, but I can't remember the last time I had to do so. I'm currently running Windows 10 on three machines (one desktop and two laptops), and it's superb. As was Windows 7 (I didn't bother with 8 due to the GUI debacle)
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>> I don't think that's been true of Windows since Windows 7.
It is. Made a shed load of money speeding up windows 7 machines by reloading them. And it will be of 10.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 30 Aug 17 at 02:03
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>> >> I don't think that's been true of Windows since Windows 7.
>>
>> It is. Made a shed load of money speeding up windows 7 machines by reloading
>> them. And it will be of 10.
>>
Interesting. Couldn't be further from my experience. Mileage clearly varies, as they say.
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>> Interesting. Couldn't be further from my experience. Mileage clearly varies, as they say.
>>
I agree with you DP, I don't subscribe to Z's suggestion that Windows is like some kind of thickening soup, like anything else it needs looking after.
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>>computer hardware for home and normal business use does not need to be any more powerful than around 2009 ish
Kind of depends on the starting point. A cheap new one in 2009 might have been marginal then, could be a disaster now.
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Yes, a pretty decent spec 2009 ish machine would be fine today, perhaps not so much a basic AMD Duron or whatever.
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I've had my laptop, an early ish i5 Dell Vostro 3350 (13" and nice an compact), since 2011, I put a 240GB Sandisk Ultra SSD in it last year and it flies, I also upgraded my workstation which is a Core 2 Duo Dell OptiPlex which with 8GB RAM and now a 480GB Ultra SSD also does everything asked of it in lightning speed. Frankly computer hardware does not need to be much fast that circa 2009.
The laptop is on Windows 10 though with the workstation I cloned the hard drive before upgrading the original h/d to Windows 10 so am currently running the SSD and Windows 7 and can "revert" to 10 anytime though see no reason to currently.
When one son went to university in 2012 I bought him the same Dell Vostro 3350 laptop on a Dell business deal so it included 3 years on site support, he had a couple of issues which the engineer fixed in his halls and on campus, priceless! Will do the same for daughter who will go to uni next year.
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Installing an SSD still rates as the most immediately impressive upgrade I've done to any PC. Night and day difference. The boot time of my desktop machine more than halved relative to the previous 7200 RPM Samsung Spinpoint F3 SATA drive. Windows 10 from cold in just under 20 seconds, and about a third of that is the scrolly BIOS guff.
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Interesting. But how much difference does it make when the PC is actually running? Noticeable?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 29 Aug 17 at 16:12
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Semi-apropos - we have a 6 year old desktop that came with Win 7, 2GB RAM, core-i3 530, 500GB HDD. It's now on Windows 10 64bit and 4GB RAM.
For months it has been unbearably slow, defragging and file cleaning has had no discernible effect. I noticed that the HDD was constantly busy even when it was doing nothing. Task Manager reported 100% disc utilisation much of the time. Hardware checks suggested the disk is OK.
A bit of googling unearthed a suggestion that removing all the processes related to MS "user experience" might help. This is I think the machine reporting what it does to MS. It wasn't totally straightforward, requiring some file deletions, but it seems to have helped a lot.
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>> Interesting. But how much difference does it make when the PC is actually running? Noticeable?
Very noticeable on boot, noticeable on opening programmes for the first time that session, given that you have sufficient ram to prevent paging, its not noticeable the rest of the time.
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>> Interesting. But how much difference does it make when the PC is actually running? Noticeable?
>>
IME yes a lot, much zippier, for instance Photoshop starts in a couple of seconds rather than 15 or so. And it's much fast opening large files and saving files as PDFs etc.
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Buy an Apple. Water thin soup, that requires little or no fettling.
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>> Buy an Apple. Water thin soup, that requires little or no fettling.
>>
...and which can only be digested by about a third of the population....
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Well, I guess an impulse purchase - to give my daughter her own first laptop/tablet and also for me for occasional use without having to fire up a clunky old laptop - eventual replacement.
Saw this today;
www.aldi.co.uk/medion-11-6%22-notebook/p/079509165808600
seems a good spec. Her current Linx 10" has a lowly Atom and 2GB RAM but only 16GB eMMC (I know not as fast as SSD but got edge over trad HDD in some respects) but its been ok. Its going to her grandparents so she has something to play on there when she stays.
Also seen this:
www.johnlewis.com/asus-transformer-flip-book-tp200sa-laptop-intel-celeron-2gb-ram-32gb-11-6-/p2303057
Given that the Aldi offering seem to be a better spec and has the Office bundle added, for slightly more what do you think? Not sure on the main differences between the Atom and the Celeron - i read the Celeron is breathed on Atom.
I dont want to hear, buy an iPad or something massively more expensive. It only has to live its warranty period and has to be a full on Windows OS.
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You do realise the Aldi laptop comes with an Office 365 12 month subscription. It's not a fully licenced copy of Office 2016. After 12 months it will cost you £79.99pa.
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rtj - yes fully aware and consider it a short term bonus. Mainly comparing the two like for like proce wise and also others which looking at.
Just looking for thoughts?
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Without knowing what it will be used for it's hard to give an opinion. For occasional use, the Median with it's small screen might be okay I suppose. But both use cut-down installs of Windows 10 on small flash drives. And not a lot of RAM either.
But for occasional web browsing they should be okay. I'd get a better laptop but maybe the budget won't stretch that far or your daughter is young and does not need more than a netbook/tablet. But for not much more you could get something bigger/better.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 31 Aug 17 at 23:32
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Laptop Buying Advice - Falkirk Bairn
