Computer Related > Smart phones. Computing Issues
Thread Author: Roger. Replies: 54
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New Fri 16 Oct 15 18:31 
 Smart phones. - Roger.
This is probably a really dumb question!
My wife is the communicator in our family, so I've bought her a smartphone (today - arrives tomorrow), from Amazon.
It's a Moto G 3rd generation, with 2GB RAM & 16 GB ROM, unlocked, which she will probably run on Giff Gaff, our current PAYG provider.
My question - does an Android phone such as this automatically switch from SIM telephony to wi-fi reception when in range of our home wi-fi?
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New Fri 16 Oct 15 18:42 
 Smart phones. - Stuartli
Once you've configured the phone for each wi-fi service you use, it should switch automatically as each comes into range.

My HTC One M8 picks up my household wi-fi (TalkTalk Super Router) from around 30ft as I approach my house, either on foot or in the car, giving out Notification sounds.

Same in my club or local pub, where The Cloud or O2 wi-fi service is connected to immediately.

Incidentally the Moto is a great phone for the outlay.
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New Fri 16 Oct 15 18:44 
 Smart phones. - No FM2R
It will switch from mobile data to wifi automatically. Unless you configure it to do so, it will not switch to using wifi for telephone calls automatically.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 18:46
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New Fri 16 Oct 15 19:07 
 Smart phones. - ....
I use Y5 battery saver app. It learns the Wi-Fi connections you use and switches off your Wi-Fi when out of range automatically enabling again when back in range.

To answer the original question, when configured to connect to Wi-Fi the phone will always default to Wi-Fi falling back to mobile data when out of range.
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 19:08
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New Fri 16 Oct 15 19:11 
 Smart phones. - Roger.
Once again you've come up trumps folks!
Many thanks :-)
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New Fri 16 Oct 15 21:12 
 Smart phones. - smokie
...so if you end up using any apps which consume large amounts of data you need to configure them to only download on WiFi (assuming your plan has a limited amount of data...). I have a few - music ones and the like.

I used to use Y5, but the same functionality is now built in to Android isn' tit?
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New Fri 16 Oct 15 22:51 
 Smart phones. - rtj70
The original question seems to be will it use WiFi for telephony... i.e. calls. If that really was the question then the answer is no unless:

1. You have a Pico cell for your mobile provider that you connect to for 3G calls - but you mention GiffGaff. I don't know if they offer this.

2. If you had a phone supporting VoLTE from the provider of the mobile telephony (not all support this and phones limited)... then it's possible.

If you meant switch from mobile data connectivity to WiFi then that's probably been answered.
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New Sat 17 Oct 15 05:10 
 Smart phones. - ....
>> The original question seems to be will it use WiFi for telephony... i.e. calls. If
>> that really was the question then the answer is no unless:
>>

You use an app such as Viber, Skype etc...
They use data for telephony.

As you can see Roger, nothing is straight forward in IT. Something so simply worded can produce many answers, all of which are valid in their own ways.
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New Fri 16 Oct 15 23:50 
 Smart phones. - Stuartli
But you don't have wi-fi and mobile enabled at the same time.

I switch wi-fi off when using mobile data (3/4G) and vice versa. I've been using GiffGaff for nearly four years.
Last edited by: Stuartli on Fri 16 Oct 15 at 23:51
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New Sat 17 Oct 15 00:04 
 Smart phones. - Manatee
>> But you don't have wi-fi and mobile enabled at the same time.

Do you mean "have to have"? It's a pain switching them (and remembering to) that is only worth enduring if you are short of data allowance and/or battery endurance.

Roger, you have probably twigged this but I'll say it anyway - don't confuse "mobile data" with the ability to make and receive calls - you can turn off mobile data to conserve your data allowance without disconnecting yourself from the phone network.
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New Sat 17 Oct 15 01:17 
 Smart phones. - rtj70
>> But you don't have wi-fi and mobile enabled at the same time.

You do not have wi-fi and mobile DATA enabled at the same time. But the phone calls will come over the 2G or 3G network on the majority of phones. Using WiFi for calls on the later phones is possible but not common.

If anyone has the latest version of Apple's iOS then that by default switches to use mobile data when WiFi connectivity is poor. They call it WiFi Handoff. But again this refers to data.

The later iPhones and some Android devices can do voice over WiFi but the conditions for that are not straightforward. e.g. on an EE contract you would need an EE supplied phone with the necessary firmware.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sat 17 Oct 15 at 01:19
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New Sat 17 Oct 15 07:58 
 Smart phones. - sherlock47
If you have a O2 contract they offer an App TUGO - which allows you to make WiFi (VOIP) calls. There are also versions of TUGO that run on PCs,Tablets,and mobiles . It will allow the connection of an incoming call or display SMS on all of your devices. Ideal to use if you are abroad with a fixed broadband line, as it uses your native contract minutes. Also allows you to use mobile hotspots in poor reception areas. You can run it simultaneuosly on upto 5? devices.

Not sure if other ISPs offer a similar facility?
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New Sat 17 Oct 15 08:45 
 Smart phones. - sherlock47
Doo.....

Delete ISPs, replace with Mobile network operators.....
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Sat 17 Oct 15 at 08:45
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New Sat 17 Oct 15 12:57 
 Smart phones. - Stuartli
>>Using WiFi for calls on the later phones is possible but not common.>>

Worth installing What'sApp..:-) Free for the first year, small charge afterwards:

www.whatsapp.com/

Owned by Facebook for a while now.

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New Sat 17 Oct 15 15:31 
 Smart phones. - Roger.
Well, the phone has arrived, as has the multi sized SIM, (poke out the right size!) from giffgaff.
There are virtually no instructions with the phone, so many of its functions are shrouded in mystery!
The tight-wads have only included a standard USB to micro USB cable, but no charger, so I've had to order one separately.
To do a number retaining SIM swap, I'll need to be on-line and logged into my wife's giffgaff account on her laptop and as she is laid low today with D & V and resting in bed, I'm just using my own charger to make sure the new phone is topped up with go-juice for the inevitable puzzling about how it works and what are its functions.
Oh joy.
BTW - is there an easy way to transfer contacts from her current phone to the new one, given that a physical SIM swap, to copy to memory, is not possible due to SIM sizes being different?
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New Sat 17 Oct 15 15:45 
 Smart phones. - rtj70
>> no charger, so I've had to order one separately.

That's an EU directive to reduce waste - most of us have multiple USB chargers already. At least you got a cable.

>> is there an easy way to transfer contacts from her current phone to the new one

You don't say what the current phone is. Maybe that can be sync'd with a computer and then you could sync the Moto G with that.
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New Sat 17 Oct 15 17:32 
 Smart phones. - ....
>> BTW - is there an easy way to transfer contacts from her current phone to
>> the new one, given that a physical SIM swap, to copy to memory, is not
>> possible due to SIM sizes being different?
>>
>>
If the current phone is Android you can backup the contacts to Google then when you setup the new phone with the same Google account you can pull the contact details from Google.

* Assumption here is the original phone is a smartphone which may not be the case.
One of the high street VARs might be able to help you out in such a case.
Last edited by: gmac on Sat 17 Oct 15 at 17:34
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New Sat 17 Oct 15 22:04 
 Smart phones. - hjd
Motorola have their own transfer app which works very well. Should be something in the quick start instructions - if you don't have those then google the handset instructions.
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New Sat 17 Oct 15 22:13 
 Smart phones. - Zero
www.motorola.com/us/motorola-migrate/motorola-migrate.html

it works like a dream. And the Moto G is cheap because you don't get any fancy stuff like chargers or beautiful box and stickers.
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New Mon 19 Oct 15 13:25 
 Smart phones. - Roger.
My head hurts!
I've spent a good while starting the set up process for the phone and I have to say, without previous experience of Android on my hudl, I would have been at a loss.
There's no way my wife has the patience with things technical to stick with it. (It doesn't help that she is laid low with a nasty gastric upset, which has fried her brain!)
I managed to transfer contacts as her old phone has Bluetooth, so enabling it and pairing phones was relatively simple in the end.
I think before activating the SIM and doing a SIM swap with giffgaff, to keep her number we will spend more time getting to know the MotoG, as currently neither of us knows how to make or receive calls!
We are on the internet with it, via home wi-fi; I've signed her in to her Google account, downloaded Firefox and enabled synching with Firefox on her laptop.
Enough already!

Last edited by: Roger. on Mon 19 Oct 15 at 13:26
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New Mon 19 Oct 15 15:10 
 Smart phones. - Pat
I feel your pain Roger:)

I'm sitting here with two brand new Samsung Galaxy S6's in front of me trying to transfer the sim card from a Galaxy S3 and it won't fit.

After spending since 4am doing my HMRC tax return my brain is fried too.

They are back in the box and I'll have another go tomorrow!

Pat
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New Mon 19 Oct 15 15:30 
 Smart phones. - No FM2R
S3 is a micro SIM and an S6 is a nano SIM.

It won't fit. Not even with a hammer.
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New Mon 19 Oct 15 15:31 
 Smart phones. - No FM2R
kenstechtips.com/index.php/smartphone-type-standard-sim-micro-sim-or-nano-sim#Samsung
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New Mon 19 Oct 15 15:56 
 Smart phones. - Pat
Thanks Mark, I was getting close to the hammer solution!

It looks like a trip to Ely on Saturday to the Vodafone shop and lunch by the river:)

Pat
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New Mon 19 Oct 15 15:33 
 Smart phones. - Falkirk Bairn
Son's I-phone 6 started acting up on Saturday - it is 6 mths old. Nipped into Vodafone on Saturday afternoon and they said that it would repaired foc but it would take 2-3 weeks.

Walked into Apple Shop for advice today & 10 mins later he walked out with a Brand New phone and apology that the phone had let him down so early in its life. Happy boy - all he needs to do is connect it to his PC and it will get the new phone back to being bang up-to-date.

Happy I-phone customer.
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New Mon 19 Oct 15 18:02 
 Smart phones. - Mike H
Roger, just a word of warning from someone who found out the hard way.

I have the same phone. Some of them have some sort of bug, firmware error, call it what you will, that causes data to "bleed" through your SIM despite being connected to wifi. It's only small packets but it burnt up a lot of credit before I tracked the issue down. There is no fix other than to turn the SIM data off every time you connect to wifi (normally, wifi takes preference over the SIM for data, and you shouldn't need to do this). If you want to use data when not connected to wifi, similarly you need to turn it back on again. For some reason, the data "bleed" doesn't show up when you interrogate the SIM for data usage, but it still gets registered with your telecomm provider (Giffgaff in your case).

I *think* this is only an issue for phones built and/or sold in Germany, but worth check particularly if you don't have a comprehensive data plan.
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New Mon 19 Oct 15 19:06 
 Smart phones. - Roger.
Thanks for the tip, Mike. For starters we will be sticking to standard PAYG on giffgaff .
Once we get a feel for usage we may well go for a "goody bag".
PAT
BTW - some SIMS, certainly those from giffgaff, come in a credit card sized piece of plastic from which you have to extract, by pushing, the correct size SIM for your phone,
My fat fingers finished up with a nano SIM + a small piece of surround to make it up to micro SIM size! Luckily I was able to refit the surround to the nano SIM and it seems to have fitted in the slot OK.
Only SIM activation will see if I've done any damage to the SIM itself.
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New Mon 19 Oct 15 19:51 
 Smart phones. - rtj70
>> BTW - some SIMS, certainly those from giffgaff, come in a credit card sized piece of plastic
>> from which you have to extract, by pushing, the correct size SIM for your phone,

The credit card sized bit of plastic is the standard SIM size. Some phones used the whole thing - thinking of Motorolas MicroTACs. The SIM we think is standard is in fact a MINI SIM I believe (2FF).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscriber_identity_module#1FF
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New Mon 19 Oct 15 20:34 
 Smart phones. - Mike H
>> Thanks for the tip, Mike. For starters we will be sticking to standard PAYG on
>> giffgaff .
>>
That's exactly where I fell foul. You suddenly find you've used an arm and a leg's worth of data but thought you were connected to wifi. The SIM reported under 100MB used, the telecomm operator recorded 1.5GB. Used up my recently bought credit in no time! Best to try it, but as I said it can be avoided by simply remembering to turn your SIM data off when you connect to wifi.

The first smart phone is a steep learning curve if like me you've never used an android device before, but it didn't take long for it to feel natural. I don't even switch the laptop on some days, the phone is so much quicker for most tasks.
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New Mon 19 Oct 15 20:44 
 Smart phones. - rtj70
>> telecomm operator recorded 1.5GB.

That's more than a leak in terms of data usage. My current plan is 1GB/month and I get nowhere near that unless I am away (e.g. holiday). For 12 months I had 500MB allowance and was fine. And I don't turn data off at all.
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New Thu 22 Oct 15 09:00 
 Smart phones. - Roger.
I've found some good alternative keyboards on Play Store.
SwiftKey is the one in use now and it has the best predicted next full word system I've found.
I'm using it on my hudl.




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New Thu 22 Oct 15 09:30 
 Smart phones. - Mike H
>> >> telecomm operator recorded 1.5GB.
>>
>> That's more than a leak in terms of data usage. My current plan is 1GB/month
>> and I get nowhere near that unless I am away (e.g. holiday). For 12 months
>> I had 500MB allowance and was fine. And I don't turn data off at all.
>>

My experiences were documented previously on this forum at

tinyurl.com/ptp2oo8

I have since gone onto a monthly plan which includes 3GB for 9.90 euros per month, so it's not an issue if if I forget to turn the SIM data off.
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New Mon 26 Oct 15 13:37 
 Smart phones. - Roger.
Would you Adam & Eve it?
I've got a faulty SIM - no wonder I kept on getting "invalid SIM" notice. Thought I'd cocked up somewhere in the SIM swap.
(The SIM from a working iPhone showed up & worked OK)
GRRR.
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New Mon 26 Oct 15 13:53 
 Smart phones. - rtj70
>> I've got a faulty SIM - no wonder I kept on getting "invalid SIM" notice

Is the SIM now activated but just not working?

Could it be because you removed the nano SIM from the larger micro SIM and now it's not seated properly?
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New Mon 26 Oct 15 14:02 
 Smart phones. - No FM2R
Also sometimes the slot the SIM goes in can either become grubby or a little loose. Make sure that the SIM is seating properly.
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New Mon 26 Oct 15 15:36 
 Smart phones. - rtj70
It's a new phone so the slot should be okay. The SIM on the other hand might need seating carefully if Roger hasn't put it back together properly.

I assume he's put the SIM in facing the right way. Stepson insisted his Virgin Mobile SIM was no good in a phone so he was wanting me to pay more for a EE SIM/contract.... except Virgin Mobile use EE so it wasn't a SIM/network lock problem. He'd put it in the wrong way :-)
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 26 Oct 15 at 15:37
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New Mon 26 Oct 15 16:20 
 Smart phones. - No FM2R
>>It's a new phone so the slot should be okay

You'd think, but not always. I know a Motorola and a Samsung which both suffered with a "loose" SIM car which if jolted could lose its connection briefly but long enough to give an invalid error.

And both were within a few weeks of new. Its quite well known on the Samsung S3, apparently.
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New Mon 26 Oct 15 23:05 
 Smart phones. - Roger.
The sim only goes in one way as there is a corner chamfer on the micro sim and the nano sim plus a pictogram on the phone. The test was done with a sim from an iPhone, which also had to fit in the micro sim outer frame.
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New Tue 27 Oct 15 00:04 
 Smart phones. - Stuartli
My problem was not the corner chamfer, but the fact that I dropped the nano SIM and couldn't find it for what seemed an eternity afterwards...:-)
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New Tue 27 Oct 15 00:14 
 Smart phones. - No FM2R
Take your point Roger, but these things are not the model of consistency you might hope.
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New Tue 27 Oct 15 00:29 
 Smart phones. - rtj70
>> The sim only goes in one way as there is a corner chamfer on the micro sim

Indeed. It only goes into the holder one way. But on my step-son's phone the holder for the SIM went in either way around. Poor design.
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New Tue 27 Oct 15 14:33 
 Smart phones. - Roger.
A replacement SIM should arrive tomorrow and I will let my son in law fit it.
As a further back up I've ordered three more

to go to our home address
Last edited by: Roger. on Tue 27 Oct 15 at 14:35
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New Mon 2 Nov 15 22:40 
 Smart phones. - Roger.
Even an activated SIM won't be recognised, so it's back to Amazon with it and a replacement arriving tomorrow.
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New Tue 3 Nov 15 12:02 
 Smart phones. - Roger.
Thanks to all who replied.
The phone WAS faulty
Returned to Amazon yesterday - by free pick-up point - & replacement sent yesterday.
Replacement arrived 10am today!
It worked fine with already activated giffgaff SIM.
YAY.

The benefits of buying from Amazon in a nutshell.
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New Tue 3 Nov 15 15:19 
 Smart phones. - Stuartli
>> The benefits of buying from Amazon in a nutshell.>>

I've always found Amazon to be the blueprint for top class after sales customer care and attention if it's ever required.
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New Tue 3 Nov 15 15:39 
 Smart phones. - Bromptonaut
>> I've always found Amazon to be the blueprint for top class after sales customer care
>> and attention if it's ever required.

Absolutely. My only battle (ongoing) is getting them to accept that Royal Mail First Class post is not next day delivery as promised to Prime customers.
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New Tue 3 Nov 15 15:51 
 Smart phones. - Zero
>> >> The benefits of buying from Amazon in a nutshell.>>
>>
>> I've always found Amazon to be the blueprint for top class after sales customer care
>> and attention if it's ever required.

All they need to do is a: pay some taxes b: treat their staff with some respect and c: make a profit. Then they might be a company to look up to
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New Tue 3 Nov 15 16:19 
 Smart phones. - Roger.
Then they might be a company to look up to >>
I don't want to "look up" to them.
I just want good service,
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New Tue 3 Nov 15 18:26 
 Smart phones. - Zero
me me me
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New Tue 3 Nov 15 22:20 
 Smart phones. - Roger.
>> me me me
ouw, ouw, ouw.
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New Tue 3 Nov 15 19:25 
 Smart phones. - Stuartli
>>All they need to do is a: pay some taxes b: treat their staff with some respect and c: make a profit. Then they might be a company to look up to>>

All I can go by is personal experience over many years. I have always enjoyed 100 per cent satisfaction with Amazon, its efficiency, services and employees.
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New Thu 5 Nov 15 10:04 
 Smart phones. - movilogo
I don't get this idea of Company X doesn't pay tax, so I wouldn't do business with them debate.

Case 1

Amazon doesn't pay tax. It passes the savings to customer via good customer service. Win-win for both parties. Ordered a book on Amazon on last Friday after lunch, delivered on Saturday morning (I am not a prime customer)!

Case 2

Company X pays their tax (they can't figure out how not to pay) which means they have to charge higher price (which further pours money into HMRC via higher VAT) which means they have to cut corners into other areas e.g. customer service, quibbling while returning etc.

The HMRC then plunders money by giving benefits to bone idle souls who can't be bothered to work. OK, you can argue tax goes to many other noble causes e.g pension, education, roads etc. but for each of these we already pay fair amount of tax via income tax, NI, council tax etc.

I am confident that Amazon makes sure that whatever it does it legal. If they can get away without paying tax then it is the problem of revenue collection, the rules of which are made by politicians.

Case 1 - consumer wins
Case 2 - nobody wins because govt. wastes the additional revenue via inefficiency

I support companies who fall in case 1 by doing more business with them :o)

Those who fall in case 2 bucket, rather than blaming the businesses, you better write to your MPs asking why the rules are made in the way it is.

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New Thu 5 Nov 15 10:20 
 Smart phones. - Bromptonaut
>> The HMRC then plunders money by giving benefits to bone idle souls who can't be
>> bothered to work. OK, you can argue tax goes to many other noble causes e.g
>> pension, education, roads etc. but for each of these we already pay fair amount of
>> tax via income tax, NI, council tax etc.

Jobseekers allowance is (2011/12) c £5bn a yr in a total welfare spend of around £170bn. The regime is one of ever increasing conditionality and while right in principle the application in the particular can be incredibly harsh.

I accept people who are out of work get some other assistance, in particular Landlord Benefit Housing Benefit, lets at least get things in approximate proportion.
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New Thu 5 Nov 15 18:36 
 Smart phones. - Mapmaker
>> in particular Landlord Benefit

Too right it is. That, though, was a Labour party decision, wasn't it. A completely stupid decision the cost of which that, if added up, must run into the hundreds of billions, or even more. Much like tax credits.

Introducing something small, that then blossoms, and cannot be removed without causing extreme economic upset, but the State cannot afford. Not clever.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Thu 5 Nov 15 at 18:36
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New Sat 7 Nov 15 08:03 
 Smart phones. - Bromptonaut
>> Too right it is. That, though, was a Labour party decision, wasn't it.

In what way?

Housing Benefit was around when I was working for the Court of Protection in early nineties. Wiki suggests the current legislation dates from 1992 but that some sort of 'rent allowance' has existed for decades.

The replacement of reference rents by local housing allowance happened on Labour's watch but looks more like a simplification than anything else. The underlying problem is the 'market' rate for rentals.

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