I'm having a new computer fitted in an outbuilding that I've set up as an office. It is a good 40m away from the house.
I've had the following as a quote from someone local.
I have no idea about the costs involved, does it seem reasonable?
50m Outdoor Network Cat5 cable
(2 x network faceplate)
(2/3 x short Network Cat5 cable)
Wireless Access point for workshop
Core i3 desktop pc, 500GB HDD, 4GB RAM, DVD R/W
24†widescreen monitor
PC Speakers
Keyboard & Mouse
Canon Wireless Printer
USB cable
USB wi-fi dongle for existing pc
Office 2007 Home & Student inc. DVD media
Labour:
Configure & prepare pc
Install antivirus
Install Office 2007/other relevant software
Setup on site/configure to network
Make up cable & test in workshop
Install wireless dongle on existing pc
Move router to Landing
Set up Wireless Access point hardware in Workshop & test
(Return to install plugs/faceplates)
Price including labour: £945.00 (no VAT)
£974 if 2 cables required
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The PC spec is not high (good enough for sure) so can't be a big part of the cost. So sounds expensive to me.
And if the printer is wireless capable, why a USB cable for it??
Can they not provide a breakdown on costs for the items including their labour? If you look on Amazon for a 50m (already made) Cat5 Ethenret cable that says it is for outdoor use - the first one that appears is £17.98. How much are they charging? But I'd have though one end will go to a faceplate for you?
This seems cheap - could run the cable inside suitable conduit to protect it?
www.screwfix.com/p/network-cabling-kit/10346
If you've got power to this outside office, then using Powerline adapters is an option too.
This is the sort of job someone like Rattle could easily do for you. Location being a problem I guess.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 5 Feb 15 at 17:17
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My problem is I have no knowledge on the subject matter, so don't have a clue. My first reaction was it's a bit steep...but.. with no knowledge i'm in the dark and of course could be quite wrong.
It's someone recommended by a friend, so a slight complication there.
I suspect having another quote will be the easiest option.
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It depends on the quality of the desktop computer, is it off the shelf or is custom built? What type of hard drive is being used (I only use Western Digital Blacks for example, they cost more but they tend to be a lot more reliable, I only only use good quality power supplies etc). Again the cost of a 24" monitor varies from £100-£200. I would typically charge about £500 for that PC with that monitor, assuming it is a Western Digital Black drive etc but that includes setup and data transfer etc.
This leaves me to conclude they charging nearly £400 to do a bit of cabling. However without all the exact specifications and knowing exactly what is involved in the cabling it is hard to comment.
I do know technicians all over the UK though, but I can't think of any of by hand from the south West area.
I think you need a second opinion at least, there maybe a lot of hidden things I have not taken into account but on the face of it the price does seem expensive.
Powerlines are ok but I find the reliability patchy depending on the wiring in the house, there is simply no better way of connecting than a good old fashioned Ethernet cable.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 5 Feb 15 at 17:38
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>> This leaves me to conclude they charging nearly £400 to do a bit of cabling.
>> However without all the exact specifications and knowing exactly what is involved in the cabling
>> it is hard to comment.
Don't forget the printer.
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Or will muddy the waters. As always my initial concern will be the competence and integrity of the contractor. There's a lot of folk out there full of Shi.
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>> And if the printer is wireless capable, why a USB cable for it??
so you can configure it
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>> >> And if the printer is wireless capable, why a USB cable for it??
>> so you can configure it
If configuration only then no USB cable is needed. Westpig probably has one anyway and the contractor will have one he can use to set it up. He's probably going to charge £10 for something that's not needed.
And do you definitely need a USB cable to setup a Canon wireless printer? I'd have thought it could be done wirelessly. What if you bought a printer for use on a tablet?
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Initial thoughts?
40 metres is too far for wifi without special aerials and some jiggery poker, 40 metres is too far for reliable and speedy Lan over power line adaptors (and the power to the shed 40 metres away will certainly be isolated on a different RCD adding to the loss)
SO far the right solution has been chosen.
The PC spec is not top notch for entertainment, pretty low notch in fact but certainly good enough for business use.
IF the guy is speccing real outdoor Cat5 cable, thats not cheap, (it should be better shielded and more robust than domestic use) so all in all, although I could do it cheaper myself, for a turn key solution its not a bad price.
Who is running the outdoor cable and how?
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That is a point, if the cable is going underground then there is a lot of labour involved in that, but I suspect it won't be. I would be interested to see the exact spec of the computer though, even with the I3s there is a big difference between costs.
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>>
>> 50m Outdoor Network Cat5 cable
30 quid
>>
>> (2 x network faceplate)
10 quid
>>
>> (2/3 x short Network Cat5 cable)
5 quid
>>
>> Wireless Access point for workshop
30 quid
>>
>> Core i3 desktop pc, 500GB HDD, 4GB RAM, DVD R/W
300 quid
>>
>> 24†widescreen monitor
125 quid
>>
>> PC Speakers
20 quid
>>
>> Keyboard & Mouse
10 quid
>>
>> Canon Wireless Printer
35 quid
>>
>> USB cable
2 quid
>>
>> USB wi-fi dongle for existing pc
10 quid
>>
>> Office 2007 Home & Student inc. DVD media
tricky, say 80 quid
so around 650 quid plus labour.
say a day's labour to install/configure plus the cable run to the outbuilding
Doesn't sound that cheap, but not outrageous either.
I agree with the idea of keeping everything possible in the building wireless, just in case the 100000:1 chance happens and the ethernet cable ends up with big volts induced into it by a nearby lightning strike. (I'm assuming the power feed to the building is done properly with a ground clamp at each end)
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>> so around 650 quid plus labour.
>>
>> say a day's labour to install/configure plus the cable run to the outbuilding
>>
>> Doesn't sound that cheap, but not outrageous either.
And profit. The bloke is a business.
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Having just changed to BT Infinity, I have a BT Hub5. On the top of it is a button to connect other network devices.
With this I linked in my wireless HP printer without having a physical connection - impossible with outgoing TalkTalk router.
Must admit that surprised me, as I'd lugged my laptop up to our spare bedroom where the printer lives, to do it as usual, before RFTM !
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>>..impossible with outgoing TalkTalk router.>>
How old was this router?
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>> How old was this router?
Sounds like it's very old. The router that Pipex gave me (Thomson TG585 v7) is at least 11 yrs old and has the sync button on it. As does the router that Talk Talk gave me a couple of years ago. Not bothered using that one though as it's not wall mountable like the Pipex one is.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 6 Feb 15 at 01:01
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>> I agree with the idea of keeping everything possible in the building wireless, just in
>> case the 100000:1 chance happens and the ethernet cable ends up with big volts induced
>> into it by a nearby lightning strike. (I'm assuming the power feed to the building
>> is done properly with a ground clamp at each end)
I can confirm ethernet cable is proposed, it'll be dug under the driveway (by someone else). Matey has proposed two, in case one goes wrong in the future and it'll save digging up the (gravel) drive again. The digging and drilling through walls will not be done by the person quoting for doing the IT, i'll have to pay someone else.
I'll cover the lightning angle...didn't think of that.
The outbuilding is a proper brick built building with tiled roof and already has power.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 7 Feb 15 at 01:26
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>> I can confirm ethernet cable is proposed, it'll be dug under the driveway (by someone
>> else). Matey has proposed two, in case one goes wrong in the future and it'll
>> save digging up the (gravel) drive again.
If matey has done all the proposal work he sounds pretty sound to me, thats a sensible suggestion. You could save the cost of 50 metres of cable by laying only one cable, but also laying a draw pull to haul another one through if the first one fails, but why not lay two at this stage.
His approach sound good and methodical and experienced.
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I assume this cable will be laid in some form of conduit. So whilst a good idea to install two... you could use one as the draw pull if needed in the future?
I do hope they are proposing putting the cable inside a plastic pipe of some sort.
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I'd lay two cables, one as spare because you can also use it as telephone cable, and wire myself up a telephone extension, and or intercom, and or burglar alarm. I'm sure the shed will be alarmed with all that kit in it.
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The power cables are there, why bother with ethernet cable?
www.ethernetoverpower.org.uk/
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40-50 metres of ethernet over power cables would be next to useless.
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>> The power cables are there, why bother with ethernet cable?
I was thinking more along the lines - can an Ethernet cable be pulled through the conduit housing the power cables.
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You really dont want data cables and power cables sharing the same outside conduit
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Good point and I hadn't thought of that. But thinking of how the job could be made easier.
So then your point raises the question - how will the new data cable be routed vs. the existing power line. You wouldn't want to dig a channel for Ethernet cabling to find there is interference from the power line.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 6 Feb 15 at 22:22
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>> So then your point raises the question - how will the new data cable be
>> routed vs. the existing power line. You wouldn't want to dig a channel for Ethernet
>> cabling to find there is interference from the power line.
Same cut is fine, you only need to keep them a couple of inches apart if you are using well shielded cat5, but not in the same conduit.
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Not sure what stage in the procurement process you're at WP, but this is a lot of PC for the money:-
www.hotukdeals.com/deals/dell-inspiron-660-i5-1tb-desktop-pc-for-309-99-argos-ebay-2139094
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Sun 8 Feb 15 at 19:15
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It certainly is - the bits I am looking at to stick in my old tower don't include any disk or video card and they're around the £300 mark. But I doubt that will support enough disks for my little array. My admittedly aged experience of Dell was that their systems were pretty much non-upgradeable as the mobo is fully used up with the base spec.
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A quick Google suggests the Inspiron 660 has 4 PCI slots, given the on board graphics I would think they're all free as supplied, or at least enough free for your average domestic punter - given that pretty much everything hangs off USB these days. The small form factor ones tend to be the tricky ones to upgrade.
My 2010 vintage Dell Vostro 230 is pretty full PCI wise now, but that's a very basic model - cost me under 200 quid including Win7 - I've added Firewire and USB3 PCI cards, neither of which your average punter would need these days IMHO.
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Smokie knows he can build a better system using known components rather than the cheaper ones in the Dell. I'm thinking features of the chipset used for starters.
Why I wouldn't be happy with the Inspiron 660 includes:
- 3 x PCI Express x1 slots
- 1 x PCI Express x16 slot
- Two DIMM slots
- 4 SATA connectors
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Yeah I was suggesting the Dell 660 for Westpig's 'typical domestic PC user ' needs; not smokie's. That list of interfaces is more than enough for most people with Westpig's use case, he's not going to be running multiple VMs or a 4 disk RAID 5 configuration.
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I realise I've not replied to thread where smokie is discussing his PC upgrade.
But I'd still not go for this Dell. Maybe if it had four DIMM slots and all I wanted was a basic PC.
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I think we have rather different definitions of 'basic' then :-)
Very little chance the typical domestic PC user* is going to need any PCI expansion slots or more than 2, never mind 4, SATA connections. 2 DIMM slots gives at least 8GB of RAM so what applications are likely to utilise more than this?
*Basic word processing, iplayer, youtube, email, web, maybe rip a CD or two.
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Mon 9 Feb 15 at 15:05
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It's the fact three of the PCI Express slots are x1. So rules out use of PCI Express based storage.
And I can see a need for more than 2 SATA connections for sure. If you have an SSD then you might have a need for more space for your files/data so a hard disk too. And an optical drive. So we're already up to 3 SATA connections. I know it has 4 but you get the point.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 9 Feb 15 at 15:11
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Thanks for the advice so far.
I'm leaning towards getting matey to do it. He's local for back up... and no one has fallen off their chair with the price.
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All installed, works well...thank you
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New computer - rtj70
