I like Windows 7, and I've got it working how I want it.
Windows 8 is out and is relatively cheap. Always being keen to try new things, I'd have liked to give it a bash. It's £29.99 apparently, PRO version.
Would that be a bad idea? Would my apps mostly be OK with it?
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I too have W7 working well and like it.
I've heard bad things about the W8 UI when not using a touch screen. I'm hoping that you're going to go ahead with it and then tell me whether or not I should.
I don't see any issues likely with any app which works on W7. I think a jump from XP or Vista might cause a few more sacrifices. It is going to be the UI which will make or break it.
I do have a few spare disks, so I do keep contemplating changing system disk so that I can easily get back to W7.
I'll probably have a go some sunday or other, but I'd really like to hear a few more good experiences first. Or some distinct advantages over W7 as W7 was over Vista.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 26 Oct 12 at 23:18
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There is no issue with Apps, its basically windows 7 core, with extra security to take advantage of boot time hardware signature, and with touch screen support.
You currently have neither on your PC, and as 8 is virtually unusable without the extra input features I dont see the point. And the only way back is a rebuild and maybe some illegal cheating if you used the upgrade offer.
I had the beta test versions of 8 on my sandpit PC. - PoS. Dislike it so much I just bought a couple of spare copies of Win7 OEM for future projects while I could.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 26 Oct 12 at 23:26
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Which is a bit of a sod really.
I like new versions of windows, with the odd exception like ME for example. They make the humdrum of using a computer interesting again for a while.
But I fear that without a touchscreen its going to be a waste of time. And since I use a 34" screen 4ft away from me, I don't see me managing to convert to touch anytime soon, my arms aren't long enough for a start.
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Probably worth running the Upgrade Assistant - checks on compatibility of computer and applications:
windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8
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I have enough to keeping a normal screen clean. If Windows 8 is the only Windows choice by the time I need a new PC I'll be looking to buy a clean PC and put Linux or Ubantu on it.
Touch screens are not needed for fixed PCs, debatable for laptops and only really needed on portable devices.
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The point is, fixed PCs are no longer needed.
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Bear in mind, thats a download, and you have to run it to the machine you are upgrading, it has to be a windows 7 machine or it wont work, and there is no going back without a rebuild, and your old license may not be accepted by windows advantage.
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Doesn't Win8 have the old desktop style built in if that is what you prefer? (somewhat like virtual XP was available within Win7 for those who wanted it).
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Windows 7 (not all versions) had Microsoft's VirtualPC on it to run a virtualised copy of XP. It was a full blown XP install running inside Windows 7. It needed patching, it needed anti-virus, etc. Not ideal.
If you're referring to Windows 8 having the new Modern UI for the start type menu and full screen apps, and also the old style desktop for windowed apps like Office... then yes there are totally different UI's which are disjoint. And for most users (all probably) the UI is not intuitive. And the modern UI really does need a touch interface... it does not work well with a mouse.
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Shouldnt have, Its a genuine offer
Here
www.windowsupgradeoffer.com
You don't need to worry about being accurate with the PC make or stuff, you can just put any old garbage in there, as long as you fill in the purchase date as being within the last month.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 28 Oct 12 at 12:08
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>> The point is, fixed PCs are no longer needed.
>>
For personal use you are absolutely right, for office use where you are using one several hours a day you are likely you end up with severe posture / eye / RSI type problems.
I have noticed several people using iPads or other such devices as a workplace tool for meetings / notes etc.
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Yes thats true for commercial use, a good keyboard and screen is required. Doesn't need to be a PC on the ends of the cables tho.
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>> Yes that's true for commercial use, a good keyboard and screen is required. Doesn't need
>> to be a PC on the ends of the cables tho.
>>
True, don't know when I last used the cd/dvd drive on mine, and you could always have a usb attachable one just in case
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Many places don't allow attachable media these days for fear of viruses or stealing of data. And also large organisations are moving towards thin client or virtual images which are delivered using a black box rather than a PC.
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Our laptops are encrypted and so are USBs and DVDs. Used to have an exception for USB/DVD but had to have project justification. So accepted it - could have got it.
Tend to run my virtual test labs on my home PC/Mac anyway - no customer data etc. Just testing/using software.
And for sensitive projects we PGP encrypt documents and emails too..
So to follow on to Smokie... a lot of companies/customers are hosting virtual PCs via various technologies so data is never on the PC.
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>> And since I use a 34" screen 4ft away from me, I don't see me
>> managing to convert to touch anytime soon, my arms aren't long enough for a start.
>>
Can't you use the "Surface" as a touchpad with all your "surface" screen mirrored on to a larger screen of your choice? I fancy doing that and using the "surface" as a pseudo mouse/projector and look at a bigger screen for those cases where I want a bigger screen.
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I downloaded the BETA months ago but never got round to playing with it. I have a brand new* PC in my workshop with a valid Vista COA. It was given to me. Its dead but I am hoping it is just the PSU if I can get it working this will be my Windows 8 test machine.
Personally for my home and office PCs, I am sticking to Ubuntu and Windows 7.
*Brand new in about 2006 hehe.
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Try running it under VMplayer (free) first?
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The wanted to that with the BETA, but it was an exe file that wanted to replace my existing Windows installation! Pretty sure Windows 8 now needs the COA to be entered during install (like with XP) so I can't even install it on VM and try it for a few days.
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The cheap upgrade is just that - an upgrade, you only get to download the installer, and then it just goes and does its stuff on your existing installation. There is no ISO or separate exe you could install into another VM.
Unless you buy the CD version.
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Yeah hence having to use my *brand new* Vista box :). I should probably sign up for the MSDN for this purpose but it is expensive.
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If my plan is to ghost the system disk to a spare idential disk, upgrade, and then if I don't like it simply put the other disk in I can't see an issue?
I want to change the system disk to a larger one anyway, so I might as well have a go with the old one, no?
Or am I missing something?
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You could clone your Windows 7 installation onto a new drive, install Windows 8 then if you hate it, use the cloned drive to restore back. I tend to clone most systems on the bench now, so if I do anything stupid I have a cloned image to go back to.
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>> The cheap upgrade is just that - an upgrade, you only get to download the
>> installer, and then it just goes and does its stuff on your existing installation. There
>> is no ISO or separate exe you could install into another VM.
>>
>> Unless you buy the CD version.
>>
Just to correct this - it will produce an ISO file or write the installation media to a USB stick. There is no limit to the number of times you can do this.
Bit of a bargain at £25 considering the speed increase, especially on a computer with an SSD.
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>> Bit of a bargain at £25 considering the speed increase, especially on a computer with
>> an SSD.
We were talking about the 14.99 version. And I also think you will find its not the full code. merely an online installer.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 1 Nov 12 at 20:50
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Still the same thing. You have to use Microsoft's Upgrade Assistant thingamabob but before installing, it offers the opportunity to make installation DVDs or USB tools. :-)
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Possibly a silly question, but in W8 are you limited to the W8 desktop, or can you still revert to something like the Windows Classic.
(from a luddite.)
8o)
Last edited by: neiltoo on Fri 2 Nov 12 at 11:09
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As I understand it, certainly on the home versions you have no choice but to you use the stupid new desktop, but there are third party alternatives which aim to replace the desktop with the traditional start menu. The problem is they seem to be full of spyware/adware.
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On full Windows 8 (not the RT variant on tablets) you have both the new modern UI and the desktop. So apps like Office, or the full version of IE, and other apps will run on the desktop. Then the modern UI full screen apps run full screen. The start menu has been replaced by the start screen (the bit with the tiles that looks like Windows Phone 7 and 8).
There are third party apps that give you a classic start menu on the desktop.
The two separate UIs - modern and the classic desktop - are confusing to many because they use totally different user interfaces. And the modern UI really needs a machine with a touch interface. It does not work well with a mouse.
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Another thought for those thinking of upgrading. Make sure your peripherals like printers and scanners have drivers. I believe Microsoft have been changing things again so something that worked on Windows 7 might not work on Windows 8. And Windows RT has even fewer drivers.
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Well this is being typed on my old laptop running Windows 8. Its an old Asus G2S of 2007 vintage, dual core centrino with 2GB of memory. It originally had Vista, so I did an upgrade to 7 32bit, and then took the £14.99 option to upgrade to Win 8. FF is perfectly right you do get an option to create install media - about 2.4gb in size.
The install went well, I only have two unfound device driver issues in control panel, I will try the vista drivers for those to see if I can clear them up, they are not critical.
Its the most painless and uninvolved install yet from MS, and has taken up little more disk space than the old W7 or Vista install. (I still have the factory installed vista recovery partition to fall back on)
Performance is adequate (Vista was merely adequate on here, 7 was snappy, so we are back to adequate, tho its improving as the chacheing starts to sort itself out.
It update the device drivers for external mouse on its own, and has loaded 4 urgent fixes.
Internet Explorer is strange - Pat will hate it, the menu bar is at the bottom, but has for the moment temporarily disappeared and I cant seem to get it back, very clean look tho.
Any questions - just ask here.
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>>Any questions - just ask here.
How's the UI without a touch screen?
Given that it is more resource hungry than W7, does it bring anything valuable or worthwhile if you don't have a touch screen?
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There are two UI's, the tiled one you are presented with, and the desktop which is an application tile on the main UI.
The desktop Ui works much the same as it did before. The main tiled UI is useable in part, but with major reservations.
1/ you need a Microsoft live account for most of the tiles (mail, calendar, music, video)
2/ Select some of the tiled apps and you are presented with more media tiles which spread off the side of the screen, and you have to use arrow keys to scroll left and right to see it all (clearly it would be a screen swipe with the right HID)
anything new that's valuable or worthwhile on a regular laptop? Nope not a bean.
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Are there any application which worked fine on XP/Vista/7 but not working in Windows 8?
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If you upgrade from Windows XP or Vista to Windows 8, no need to worry about which apps are installed that will work on Windows 8.... they will all be removed during the upgrade. Apps are only preserved if you upgrade from Windows 7.
Run this EXE to see what apps/hardware you've got that is compatible:
go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=242045
Or check it out here:
www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/win8/CompatCenter/Home?Language=en-US
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 7 Nov 12 at 12:30
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>> Are there any application which worked fine on XP/Vista/7 but not working in Windows 8?
Not moved any apps over from XP, all the vista / 7 apps work fine. Even the laptop specific device drivers written for Vista installed ok.
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>> But I fear that without a touchscreen its going to be a waste of time.
>> And since I use a 34" screen 4ft away from me, I don't see me
>> managing to convert to touch anytime soon, my arms aren't long enough for a start.
>>
Agreed. MS are currently working on a couple of solutions for gesture control, one based on the Kinect sensor of the XBOX and one on a doppler system. I'm going to wait until those hit the streets before having another play with 8.
Touch screens you don't have to actually touch? It might just work.....
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I'm about to buy a new PC for home use. It will be a traditional desktop type for family use in the study.
All the PCs now available brand new come with Windows 8, so I'm presuming that the OS will be perfectly useable with traditional, non-touch screens. Safe assumption?
One other thing - I need a new printer. No single printer on the PC World website says it is compatible with Windows 8, so far as I can see. So what is one supposed to do? Can you simply not yet print from a Windows 8 machine? Isn't that a bit silly?
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Go to the printer manufactures site and check it has Windows 8 drivers. Most printers currently on sale will work with Windows 8. The PC Worlds product information on the printers was probably uploaded well before Windows 8 came out.
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>> One other thing - I need a new printer. No single printer on the PC
>> World website says it is compatible with Windows 8, so far as I can see.
>> So what is one supposed to do? Can you simply not yet print from a
>> Windows 8 machine? Isn't that a bit silly?
Windows 8 found the correct driver automagically for my Canon MP480 even tho it was only contactable over wifi. I was impressed by that.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 7 Nov 12 at 13:51
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>> All the PCs now available brand new come with Windows 8, so I'm presuming that
>> the OS will be perfectly useable with traditional, non-touch screens. Safe assumption?
>>
useable yes, perfect no. It will make sense to get one of the multigesture mice/pad things if you PC is not equipped with one.
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>> It will make sense to get one of the multigesture mice/pad
>> things if you PC is not equipped with one.
Holy crap. What fresh hell is this?
Whimper.
Was going to buy this:
www.johnlewis.com/231740149/Product.aspx
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Wouldnt even give that one the time of day, all in ones (screen and system unit) are notoriously unreliable, unifixeable outside the warranty, and completely un-upgradeable.
That model has not been designed with windows 8 in mind, seems to be a strange hybrid with an underpowered cpu, (less so than the c320 i3) with windows 8 slapped on it.
Wouldnt touch it with a bargepole.
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Thanks. Perhaps best to go for a traditional box'n'monitor set up, then. I was working on the assumption that John Lewis wouldn't market anything dodgy.
I'm after a budget family PC with a monitor which has built in speakers (no need for good quality audio). What sort of thing would you recommend? Just need to do young kids' internet surfing (age 5 and 8), reading emails, storing and printing photos, storing family videos. That sort of thing. Can I get away with entry spec stuff, £250-300 (not including monitor) price point? I'm thinking 4GB ram and 1TB HD.
I'm a bit out of touch with it all.
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For instance
www.dabs.com/products/acer-aspire-x3990-core-i3-2120-4gb-500gb-dvdrw-w7hp-64-bit-82KW.html?src=3
All you asked for except the 1 tb drive - its a 500 gb drive and frankly big enough, but if you want more slip in a 1tb extra drive later when the price comes down to 50 quid.
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Thanks, Z.
Would you say your recommended PC is better than this one?
www.johnlewis.com/231740065/Product.aspx
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yes I would in that it has a faster and better CPU than that compaq, but then it costs more.
However if you twist the question and say a: would that PC do for me, and b: is it good value for money, I would have to say a: probably and b:yes.
Edited. Just noticed its windows 8. Again its another PC that does not have the human interface to fully exploit the operating system.
Honestly I would be looking for Windows 7 sell offs.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 8 Nov 12 at 09:23
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>> All you asked for except the 1 tb drive
...and you'll have to add on the monitor (and keyboard/mouse).
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I dont know them well enough to comment on them as a brand but it looks well specified enough for the price. Another Windows 8 machine.
Where did all those unsold windows 7 machines go to I ask myself?
I am not again windows 8 per say, I just feel that to peddle it with a standard machine that has no attempt to use its features will be an annoyance.
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You can get an unbranded i3 + 4GB + 1TB + Windows 7 PC on ebay for £350 (inc p&p), but I'd probably go for the Acer or Zoostorm.
EDIT: eg. tinyurl.com/bpfvy4m
Last edited by: Focusless on Thu 8 Nov 12 at 09:37
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Have you considered a laptop at that price? Spec not that much lower, plus screen and keyboard included. And the option of plugging in another monitor (or TV) if required. And it's portable.
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Yeah, wife and I have work laptops, I want something fixed for family use that the children won't start whinging to be allowed to take to their bedrooms.
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Good point. One last comment - if you feel like supporting your local independent store, there's this lot at Shepherds Hill:
www.novatech.co.uk/pc/?s=1
Not the cheapest - £390 for i3 + 4GB + 500GB + Windows 8 (£10 more for Win 7) - but close if you need support.
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>> Not the cheapest - £390 for i3 + 4GB + 500GB + Windows 8 (£10
>> more for Win 7) - but close if you need support.
Curious set of circs that prices a 'downgrade' at a premium.
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In principle I'd like to support my local independent store. But £120 quid says my money's more likely to go to John Lewis. If they were, say, £20 more, I might use them. I'm confident in John Lewis's after sales service, and they're pretty local to me too.
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>> But £120 quid says my money's more likely to go to John Lewis.
Yes, sorry - I'd looked at the JL PC but for some reason I was thinking it was £400-odd when looking at the Novatech machines. I wouldn't pay that much more either.
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>> Not the cheapest - £390 for i3 + 4GB + 500GB + Windows 8
Novatech Life NTI18 3rd Gen Intel Core i3 Processor, 4GB Memory, 500GB Hard Drive
shows as £309.98
>> (£10 more for Win 7)
>>
can't see that, but do see this:
"Windows 8 Upgrade Offer
Novatech has tested the following system for upgrade to Windows 8. The results of Novatech's testing produced the following step-by-step / clean installation instructs for upgrading this system to Windows 8. Find out the upgrade steps here
Buy any Windows 7 PC or laptop and we'll give you a £15 Novatech voucher to cover the cost of the £14.99 upgrade*
Find out more here
* Offer valid June 2, 2012 through January 31, 2013. For complete details, visit windowsupgradeoffer.com"
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>> >> Not the cheapest - £390 for i3 + 4GB + 500GB + Windows 8
>>
>> Novatech Life NTI18 3rd Gen Intel Core i3 Processor, 4GB Memory, 500GB Hard Drive
>> shows as £309.98
That's without the OS.
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>> I am not again windows 8 per say, I just feel that to peddle it
>> with a standard machine that has no attempt to use its features will be an
>> annoyance.
>>
Would this sort the interface problem in W8 with regards to using it on a desktop machine with keyboard and mouse?
techmell.com/how-to/disable-metro-ui-windows-8/
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"Windows 8 is still in a preview only mode, not even in the public beta. Primarily this is a version to get the developers familiar with the new environment and give them an idea on what to expect."
So things might be different in the current release?
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Yarss. I'm leaning towards panic buying a Windows 7 pc now (found some at Dell, and there's Zero's baby too). But they don't seem to be discounted at all, and I can find nothing which seems as good value as the John Lewis Compaq with Win 8 whichI've got my beady on.
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>> But they don't seem to be discounted at all,
And I wouldn't expect them to be for the whole time you can upgrade to W8 for £15 or whatever it was.
The argument against all in one compupter/screeens is the same as the argument against all in one TV/VCR/DVD and is essentially two-fold;
If one bit breaks, then you lose the lot.
You usually cannot upgrade just one component.
Frankly for a family PC I wouldn't care about either of those. Stuff doesn't break that much anymore, and you're buying it at JL anyway, and how many people really upgrade computers anyway? (I know, I know, some do, but the vast majority do not).
People also worry about the performance of a PC too much, IMO. Unless one PC is *substantially* better provisioned than another not only will you never notice the difference, they'll both become inadequate at about the same time anyway.
The argument against the W8 user interface sounds more compelling, although I've never used it myself.
The W8 issue to one side, for a family desktop I'd buy the one you fancy at the price you can live with.
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Don't expect an all in one PC to be any good at 3D type games. Because you cannot upgrade the graphics - the Intel GPU will be pretty poor. Might not matter to you.
I'd also check out Windows 8 for yourself before taking the plunge. It does not work very well without some form of touch interface - e.g. screen (but that doesn't work well for a monitor does it... ergonomics are wrong) or better a multi-touch trackpad of some sort.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 8 Nov 12 at 14:20
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I'd rather have a Dell, one of the cheaper Win7 deals here:-
www.dmxdimension.com/dell-uk/inspiron-660-deals/
If I ended up with a Win8 system I'd blow a fiver on one of the various 3rd party add-ons that allows you to boot into the non Metro GUI and forget all that touchy feeley malarkey.
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Thu 8 Nov 12 at 20:22
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Just used the €14.99 upgrade (had to pretend I was in Gibraltar to get an English version rather than the Spanish one - why software firms assume that everybody in a particular country wants to work in the local language is a discussion for another day). Certainly seems to be faster in operation. Just getting familar with the interface - with a bit of customising I think it will be useful - although I had to go to Google to find out how you switch off!
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As a follow-up to the above, and to be fair to Microsoft, they seemed to have allowed you to change languages easily in Windows 8 - with Win 7 you had to have the Ultimate version to do this, or go down the "Vistalizator" software route
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Ok Impressed time.
On an old (5 years, intel centrino duo, 5krmp sata drive, 2gb memory)
Power on to usable sign on - wait for it - 18 seconds. That includes bios boot.
Unimpressed. Tried to play a .mov video file. By default its wants to use XBOX video (one of the fancy new "tiled" apps. Of course Xbox Video wont work with .mov.
And you know what weird? in the main part of windows, Windows Movie player still lives, that you can go back to if you want.
I had to downgrade the installed video drivers to Vista drivers to run second life. Took them (old 32 bit vista drivers) and worked without a murmur
Under this fancy summer frock, is a damn fine OS. The skirt gets in the way when you want to make first base.
Edit. And it just installed Flash player for Windows 8 as an important update. WTF? I thought MS had killed flash for windows 8
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 12 Nov 12 at 15:22
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The actual OS itself in Windows 8/Server 2012 is good. A lot of improvements. I still think the modern UI should be for touch devices only (tablets and phones). They should have overhauled the interface so many people know and not been too radical.
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I wonder if Steven Sinofsky (head of Microsoft's Windows division) jumped or was pushed. Seems odd he'd leave of his own accord just after the launch of Windows 8? Or maybe not? Perhaps he'll be going to Apple after a period of gardening leave :-)
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>>Under this fancy summer frock, is a damn fine OS. The skirt gets in the way when you want >>to make first base.
Is this about Windows or something else?
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Windows 8 - No FM2R
