My PC's died. It's a three-year-old Packard Bell. It locked up first of all and could only be reset by a re-boot. It then failed to're-open last session' and then wouldn't open windows. It now runs the fans for a couple of seconds at power up before powering itself down again. Someone suggested unplugging the connections to the mother board until I find which one allows it to run longer. I did this and when I removed 4-way plug with black and yellow leads the fans continued running, although the PC remains dead. Suggestions are the mother board or CPU. Do we think it's worth repairing or should I buy another PC?
I've dug out an old laptop that's running windows ME! it's not got an ethernet connection or wireless. Any suggestions as to what I can do, other than dial-up, until I get the PC sorted?
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If you`ve got a wireless router you can get (cheap) usb Belkin wireless adapters that will let you connect to your router wirelessly.
this type of thingy
tinyurl.com/6q3whmk
Last edited by: devonite on Mon 2 Jul 12 at 15:59
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Sounds like a short circuit. Seen this issue a lot on damaged USB ports. The best way to test this sort of thing is to remove the motherboard from the case and disconnect all the headers. Leaving only the PSU and graphics card if needed connected. While the motherboard is out of the case check the capacitors for any bulging.
If still no joy then try another PSU, a faulty PSU can cause this issue.
Very very unlikely to be the CPU, in the 6.5 years I have been doing this job I have never once seen a faulty CPU.
My money is on either the PSU or a faulty USB port.
Sometimes simply draining the power and CMOS battery can solve this issue, as it can be a BIOS fault.
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Just to be claer, was it a square four way plug going into a socket on the motherboard?
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>> Just to be claer, was it a square four way plug going into a socket
>> on the motherboard?
Yeah it sounds like the power lead for the CPU that was removed.
Sounds to me like the Power Supply is shutting down, although due to an internal fault or a motherboard short who knows.
Did you remove ALL the leads from the motherboard? Inc the disks?
Have you removed all the USB devices plugged int he back?
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 2 Jul 12 at 19:30
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Sorry for the delay in replying, I'm having to wander to the library and they only allow 30 minutes use!
I can't recall if the plug I removed was square, but the motherboard's a MCP73VT-PM. The plug I removed that allowed the fans to keep running was the one to the bottom left of the CPU(?) cooling fan here: tinyurl.com/d5f2zkl
I removed one plug at a time with the power off and then powered up again. If the fans cut out, I'd power down, replace the plug I'd just removed, then repeat the process for another plug. There was nothing left plugged in the USBs. This was just the tower.
IIRC there's only two plugs going to the PSU (I'm learning the jingo), the other two leads on the Motherboard are ribbon cables to the hard drive.
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Tue 3 Jul 12 at 14:52
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Further info.
A brief google suggested removing the RAM and listening for beeps. Removed RAM, powered up, no beeps, shut down after a couple of seconds.
I removed the motherboard and examined it under a magnifying glass. Couldn't see anything and all capacitors looked OK. I gave both sides of the board a blast with contact cleaner. When it dried I replaced it and all internal connections and the blasted thing ran for several minutes until I shut it down. I then connected the monitor and it shut down after a couple of seconds - no display on the monitor.
Going back to the way it failed originally. It locked, then it wouldn't 'reload last sessio'n, then it gave me a few warnings about unable to load windows each time I powered it up. If the PSU failed, wouldn't it just fail completely and suddenly without a slow death?
I'm thinking I can get a new tower for a couple of hundred quid and it's probably not worth spending anything on my three-year-old.
I'm away for a few days, so won't be posting.
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>> I then connected the monitor and it shut down after a couple of seconds - no display on the monitor.
Faulty video card?
Something similar happened recently with a PC at work.
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>> >> I then connected the monitor and it shut down after a couple of seconds
>> - no display on the monitor.
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>> Faulty video card?
>>
>> Something similar happened recently with a PC at work.
I think it has on board video.
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is that a video card or something else in the bottom PCI?
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It's unlikely to be a PCI video card. The board has on board video and you'd expect a discrete video card to use the PCI Express slot (empty).
So what is in the bottom PCI slot?
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>>So what is in the bottom PCI slot?
Sorry can't help you, that's a picture I snaffled off Google. It's not my PC, but appears identical, appart from that slot. Mine's empty.
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>> If the PSU failed, wouldn't it just fail completely and suddenly
>> without a slow death
Not necessarily. The PSU needs to be able to deliver stable voltage and current for the motherboard and CPU to function correctly. Although PSUs can and do fail suddenly, it's possible that one of the rails was fluctuating for a while in the run up to this failure. This would cause stability issues and problems like you describe.
Changing a PSU is a doddle. Might be worth asking around to see if someone has a spare you can borrow for a few hrs so you can substitute and test. I have had a few PSU failures over the years. They are probably the least reliable component in a modern computer.
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If you cant borrow one, one of these would be cheaper than buying one offhand.
tinyurl.com/cmcwczz
you may only use it once, but for about a fiver it may do the job!
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Maybe not, it sounds like its kacking up under load, and that does not provide load nor does it test the CPU power lead.
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My money is on the PSU. Most the PSUS I replace are on PCs which still boot or at least power up etc but as soon as you put the scope to it you can see the outputs are all over the place and nothing like the smooth square wave it should be.
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Might be the PSU which is easy and cheap to swap. The only things I've ever had pop on a desktop are the PSU and the HDD.
Of course that's pub advice. I'm not a real PC mender. Rattle can probably diagnose it right off the bat when he looks in.
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Just avoid the cheap and nasty PSUs, they lie about the specs and you risk having a bomb in your computer.
If you don't want to spend a lot on a PSU then I would recommend FSP. Depending on how basic your PC is you can pick them up for less than £20 and you know its from a major reputable brand. It may only be 300w but it will be able to handle more power than that 600w CIT.
If you do buy a PSU avoid CIT like a plague. It is a marketing brand and some of the stuff I have bought has been dangerous.
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I notice the PSU has a label detailing the voltages on each wire colour. I've a (cheap) digital multi-meter. Would that be accurate enough to test the PSU? What's the normal procedure, stick a pin through the insulation? It runs continuously if I remove the 4-pin plug mentioned earlier.
I'm thinking of one of these, any comments? tinyurl.com/cowrz76
I can get a legal copy of Windows 7 for free.
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Sat 7 Jul 12 at 12:43
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>> I'm thinking of one of these,
you're not, they are out of stock.
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>> >> I'm thinking of one of these,
>> you're not, they are out of stock.
They weren't when I first found them, damn!
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 7 Jul 12 at 20:57
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Don't know how much the out-of-stock one was but this one has an extra 2GB of memory and (FWIW) a 640 rather than 630 CPU, for £200:
www.ebuyer.com/389050-zoostorm-desktop-pc-7873-1061
EDIT: or 8GB + 1TB HD, 840 CPU for £230?
www.ebuyer.com/389051-zoostorm-desktop-pc-7873-1062
Last edited by: Focus on Sat 7 Jul 12 at 16:57
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Thanks Focus, but neither of them are available for a week or more.
I'm getting pressure from above (SWMBO).
This seems promising (but I'm no expert): tinyurl.com/cmeq2sm
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>> Thanks Focus, but neither of them are available for a week or more.
Whoops - sorry, hadn't spotted that.
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>> I notice the PSU has a label detailing the voltages on each wire colour. I've
>> a (cheap) digital multi-meter. Would that be accurate enough to test the PSU? What's the
>> normal procedure, stick a pin through the insulation? It runs continuously if I remove the
>> 4-pin plug mentioned earlier.
Waste of time, no good measuring the voltages while its running because they are all there.
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It is still useful to do, the voltages may be there but not enough, e.g the 12v output could be 11v or it might be jumping up and down like a yoyo.
Do it you simply connect the black to black or the chassis, the yellow is 12v and the red is 5v. You need a stable output on both voltages for the PC to work.
As for those Zoomstorms I don't have any experience with them, but a customer did once buy a cheap Ebuyer PC, the hard drive failed after 3 months. The client needed to get the PC working yesterday so they paid me to fix it rather than under warranty.
When I opened the case, I discovered the HD had just one screw instead of four securing it! I think it was just a one off though.
As a cheap basic PC I am sure it will be fine.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Sat 7 Jul 12 at 14:21
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It could of course just be the on/off button sticking.........
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Another reason for removing the motherboard completely and trying it outside of the case. Usually though in the case of a sticky on off switch you can feel it is faulty.
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>> It could of course just be the on/off button sticking.........
I doubt it, it runs if I remove the 4-pin plug adjacent to the CPU.
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Pretty sure it is your PSU that is the problem. I will ask again but are the capacitors near the CPU ok?
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>>are the capacitors near the CPU ok?
I took on board your experience of duff capacitors and gave them a good looking at with a magnifying glass. I couldn't detect any leaks or swelling.
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Not that then :). I wouldn't say it is that common any more and don't come across them that often as it was 2003-2007 build PCs which often suffered from that problem. However I do always check them as a matter of routine.
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I tested all the PSU outputs and they looked fine to me (12.1V on the 12V supply etc.).
I've just read about the PG signal, I didn't test that. Is it worth putting 5V on it to see what happens?
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no. The power supply probably is shutting down under load, you can't test that easily at home, or the motherboard is fried, or both.
Stop farting around, and either
a: buy the cheapest power supply you can fit to test it*
b: trash it and buy a new pc. Take out the drive to get the data off on your new one.
Yes yes, rattle will come on and say cheap power supplies are the spawn of the devil, but you are not going to invest a lot of dosh on a good power supply only to find the motherboard is toast, are you.
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Sounds like a rootkit to me.
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>> Sounds like a rootkit to me.
>>
It is not starting up at all - I didn't think could even get to the BIOS or even the POST. That's right isn't it Bathtub Tom isn't it. Shame you don't live nearer. I have a 'spare' PSU you could use (or even have) for nought.
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I have several spare PSUs, the problem is I think the postage would cost more than they are worth. If it was RAM or something I would happily post a spare.
I suppose in theory a rootkit or virus could stop a PC from booting if it writes the BIOS. Apparantly such things exist but I haven't seen any. My money is still on the PSU.
Also just a thought if there is any PCI cards in there, remove them. I have seen a few systems where a duff old legacy 56K modem has caused power issues - probably due to a short in the modems circuit.
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A cheapo PSU is always handy to test I suppose, the problem is you do sometimes get PSUs which are DOA so it might not be the best way to lest.
What I would do is remove the PSU, and ask a local computer shop to test yours for you, they will probably only charge £10. There is a slight risk if it is the PSU that it has fried the PSU, but these days it is rare and it is only cheap and nasty ebay specials which have such poor PSUs they have no protection and a fault can damage the motherboard.
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I've ordered a new PC tower, it should arrive this week.
The only person I know who's likely to have a spare PSU's on holiday. I'll try one when he's back.
I'm guessing it's the motherboard. I'll try for spares when I'm up and running again. I've Feecycled enough stuff, it's time I gained something.
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New tower arrived this morning. It's got a CIT PSU!
Got to wait until next week for Windows.
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Good luck with that, a word of advice check the power cable it came with, it was a CIT power cable I had which burst into flames. When I opened it up, I discovered the actual copper inside the cable was thinner than speaker cable.
The PSU itself may be ok but it is not a brand I would ever want to supply, I only have £2 million public liability cover.
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Rattle, you are a prophet of doom:)
Pat
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>> Good luck with that, a word of advice check the power cable it came with,
>> it was a CIT power cable I had which burst into flames. When I opened
>> it up, I discovered the actual copper inside the cable was thinner than speaker cable.
In fact I bet the copper was actually coloured aluminium.
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Rattle. If you (seriously!) think you need more than £2m PL cover you should operate through a limited company.
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I'm back, with new high-speed, super conductive access.
Off to test Pat's greasy spoon on Saturday.
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Hope it stops raining tubby tommy or we'll all need wellies!
Pat
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"Off to test Pat's greasy spoon on Saturday."
If this means what I think it means, you'll have a great time - no, a super-duper ace time - so I hope you enjoy it!
Be nice to Pat for me.
Last edited by: FocalPoint on Tue 17 Jul 12 at 12:41
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It does mean that FP:)
I've been up there today tearing my hair out....I want to borrow a flat trailer, I want the whole yard sweeping, the canteen cleaned, the loading finished before 6am.
It seems I'm not getting any of that!
It always works out in the end though.
Pat
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I thought I'd make a concerted effort to get the old PC tower sorted. I was given a couple of old towers that were on their way to the tip - neither had a compatible PSU and my HDD had different connectors. My HDD's got a 5-pin power supply and a small data socket. These had a 4-pin power leads and a double-row data connector.
It meant I couldn't try the PSUs in my PC and I couldn't try my HDD in the other towers.
Is there some sort of code for my HDD that would describe the PSU (5-pin power connector)?
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Yup your ones with the small data connector are called SATA drives.
The ones with the bigger power plug (molex) and the twin row of pins is called IDE ( or P ATA) drives.
You can get a a Molex to STATA power connector.
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Thanks, but now you've really confused me.
>>The ones with the bigger power plug (molex) and the twin row of pins is called IDE ( or P ATA) drives
Mine's got the bigger power plug (5 pins rather than 4) and the smaller date connector.
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then i have no idea what your drive is called.
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Ah I see whats happend, we dont have the same idea of whats 'big" and whats not.
You have a SATA drive.
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SATA drives, especially earlier ones, often had both SATA and Molex power connectors on 'em as many PSUs of the period did not have SATA power connectors and it saved the system builders a few pennies not adding adaptors.
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PC died - devonite
