I really think it was a mistake to allow just positive thumbs. What is happening now is that the only response folks have to a post they don't agree with that already has positive thumbs is to report as offensive. There are several such examples about now.
In truth these posts aren't offensive as such... it's just that many don't agree with them.
It would be far better to have the negative thumbs so folks could use them to negate the positives and leave the offensive post button for truly offensive posts.
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I totally agree Fenlander.
I was appalled to see this morning that a post mapmaker made yesterday directed at me, had been hidden because of votes made. I hadn't even voted on it and I felt it was unfair on MM.
I will always advocate frank and open debate, and argue a difference of opinion, but I do really think that any form of anonymous voting only serves to inflame a situation and at best is very unfair.
(This was what I meant by calling a spade a spade........I would rather put something into words than hide behind a button)
Pat
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>>I totally agree Fenlander
That's because we're Fen folks.
And to make it completely clear I didn't want thumbs at all but think you have to allow negatives once you allow positives.
I remember you didn't want thumbs either Pat because of posts ending up carring the weight of negatives.
Stephen could perhaps make it so negative thumbs are enabled but a post couldn't go lower than zero??
Last edited by: Fenlander on Fri 23 Apr 10 at 12:36
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>>>I really think it was a mistake to allow just positive thumbs <<<
I quite agree, it was only bullying by the few that lead to their removal IMO.
The negs should have been tried for a longer period.
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I give up.
I see my post above has been voted as offensive.
Absolutely proves my point.
Off out into the garden to talk to the plants and listen to the birds sing!
Pat
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Pat's spot on. I offer an idea and it gets 8 thumbs up. Pat says she totally agrees, gets 1 thumbs up but also an offensive marker. That is totally out of order and whoever pushed the button knows it.
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On 2nd thoughts, perhaps we should stick the flippin thumbs where the Sun don't shine!
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I agree with Pat.
I think those who object to the new system should click on "offensive" on every single post they can see. If 20 people do this, then the entire forum will become invisible!
Moreover, I do not think the voting should be anonymous.
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>>>Moreover, I do not think the voting should be anonymous.
If there has to be voting it has to be anonymous or those that make posts attracting negatives are going to struggle to avoid looking for hassle with their detractors.
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>>>I think those who object to the new system should click on "offensive" on every single post they can see. If 20 people do this, then the entire forum will become invisible!
I suppose if you want to destroy this forum thats a great idea. I hope that not enough people agree with you.
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>> I give up. I see my post above has been voted as offensive.
It's just having a frowning kind of day. Maybe squinting because the sun is shining so much outside. ;-)
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>>
>> It would be far better to have the negative thumbs so folks could use them
>> to negate the positives and leave the offensive post button for truly offensive posts.
>>
>>
Example of thumbs up and down cumulatively living side by side
forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2010/04/22/google_streetview_logs_wlans/
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Ive seen the thumbs up/down work well with newspaper article comments and I was suprised to see it go so quickly before getting a fair hearing.
I think that we should really think long and hard before clicking on the 'red button' - on one of my threads, a disagreement that Pat has alluded to seems to have had it used as a sign of disagreement rather than genuine offense, which undermines the whole point of having a button for offense.
I dont mind the thread drift, but lets behave ourselves eh? Having your thread reported as offensive for no really solid reason is verging towards bullying and thats a bit uncomfortable for me and Im sure others here aswell.
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Well, I may have hit on the answer, for me at least.
I have no reason to use either of the buttons. I'll read what topics that interest me, offensive or not. .....I'm a big boy now ! If someone comes on and makes really outrageous statements, then I'm sure the mods can deal with that in their own way.
I'll make a reply to something but I'm not on here to start, or get involved in, an argument .
I can get in one of those quite easily...............I'm married !!
I come on here because I like it, I like the regulars and no doubt new regulars will turn up who will be, with maybe one or two exceptions, also likeable.
Just my own feelings about it.........feel free to neg me if you're outraged !
It's a leisure activity...it's not compulsary.
Ted
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I cant use any of these buttons, including the "offensive" ones becasue im not qualified to do so.
how does one become qualified to "vote"?
edit: i see, you have to have contributed to the thread
Last edited by: Redviper on Fri 23 Apr 10 at 14:34
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Just log in while on the thread Rv.
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My guidy aunt. You lot are worse than my wife in a dress shop. This is an internet forum, none of us know each other, so who gives a merde if someone ticks you of gives you a grumpy face.
Drama queens all of you.
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Could it be us?
Could it be the way we're using them?
>>runs back out to the garden<<<
Pat
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Well said, Zero. See, I didn't need the thumb !
Ted
BTW...How is your wife bad in a dress shop ? Does she object to you taking too long to try them on ? :-)
Last edited by: silence of the cams on Fri 23 Apr 10 at 16:14
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Ah, but how do we know that Ted?
He's got 3 already:)
Pat
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I may be a drag queen, but I am no drama queen.
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>> I may be a drag queen but I am no drama queen.
>>
I'm saying nothing!
;-)
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>>Drama queens all of you.
Quite. It is as it is. I'm far more likely to clear off for a bit, as I have in a past life, in response to constant locking of threads by self-appointed moral guardians as soon as they get interesting or drift (which is what happens in discussions) than whether there are rating buttons or not, which bothers me not at all.
The current approach is fine if that's what the forum provider wants.
It will work if people use the buttons properly - maybe ditch the icons and substitute the words "helpful" and "offensive", to be clear they aren't "agree" and "disagree".
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>>> It will work if people use the buttons properly - maybe ditch the icons and substitute the words "helpful" and "offensive", to be clear they aren't "agree" and "disagree". <<<
Doh! I actually thought they did indicate agree or disagree, and I've acted upon that assumption.
(I know, I know - I should ave read the blimming thing!)
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couldnt of put it better myself ted , thats exactly how i see this forum
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As you know we removed the thumbs down because the enormous adverse reaction people had to them. We needed some rating system because in future we want to put the best rated car review (for example) against the car being viewed, or at least order them by best rated. We need some kind of automated system as the computer can't read all posts and make it's mind up as to which are good and bad; it needs the community at large to do this. (i.e. some kind of human intelligence)
Of course with all rating systems we know that there are abuses, but there is an assumption that in the main people know what responsible behaviour is. After all, most people here somehow sort out their grievances amongst themselves pretty well, and I always assume that such issues are to be expected once you get a group of people in a room as it were.
As for the negative rating, we simply hid it and didn't remove the code. Re-instating isn't too big a deal. Maybe it was too big a jump to give all of you all the bells and whistles in one go without breaking you in gently.
There is one question that I am still mulling over though and that is when we had the negative rating it just subtracted from the positive and just displayed one running total. Some other sites keep a running total of both positive and negative, so against an item you see both.
For what we want to do, which ultimately is to select useful information using the community to do that for us, the single positive rating will probably do the job well enough. That's why we were "happy" to remove "rate down" given that it seemed to have more of an adverse effect on people posting than the good it was doing for us by selecting the best posts.
.. having said that, some posts aren't offensive, but I just wish I could just hit the red thumb down button sometimes ...
PS: when we did have negative thumbs I think I had the worst rating for implementing this system! (just as well I don't suffer from low self esteem eh?)
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So what about my idea of reinstating the negative thumb but limit the score so it doesn't drop below zero zero? I think it's better to have the negatives just take away the positives rather than show beside them because then it removes some of the *negativity* felt if a post is seen to have negatives or go into negative figures.
If that makes sense.......
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Accentuate the positive,
Eliminate the negative !
Don't mess with Mr Inbetween !
I'll get me burkha.
Ted
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Well, it seems to be a morning for apologies and explanations and I find I have a few thoughts on this that may, or may not, need airing but in true Flying Witch style I'll air them anyway!
You can always give me the angry face:)
I really don't like the whole idea of being able to disapprove of something silently yet visually. It's always my benchmark to be prepared to say what I think or not 'say' it at all.
Now, I suspect mapmaker is much the same:)
I also suspect that is why we sometimes rub each other up the wrong way!
However, we are both capable of doing this to each other and then letting it drop and forgetting about it, until the next time!
With the best will in the world, people are 'showing their support' by voting silently with the tools that are available and in this case it certainly blew it all up out of proportion.
The thumbs to me, have certainly given me a bit of deja vu and have seen me sitting wondering whether to post or not, much like I used to do in the BR, and it's something I've never done on here until now.
After all, no-one enjoys being disapproved of at heart, do they?
As I mentioned before, I was appalled to find MM's post hidden because of voting, that shouldn't happen for a simple full and frank exchange of views on any internet forum, where the posters have kept to the forum rules as we both did. ( that was why I used the term 'below the belt' as opposed to 'offensive'. Milder and acceptable.)
This forum has been like a breath of fresh air to us all, and something we want to stay. It also appears that we have to learn to live with the thumbs for the future plans of car4play, so a compromise has to be the way forward.
Let's not all wade in bullheaded ( sorry, reverting back to lorry driver speak now!) and vote willynilly.
Lets use this as an example: MM is more than capable of backing up what he says, and I'm a big girl now, we both quite enjoy the occasional spat and long may they continue!!
But Z calling me 'a bit if a drama queen', now that did hit home:(
Pat
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Dunno about drama queens, but some people do seem a bit, well, fragile.
When I first started posting on HJ I told some anecdote or other that someone chose to disbelieve or cast doubt on. I found this a bit irritating but thought:, poor idiot, doesn't know the truth when he sees it.
Similarly over the months various people have chosen to disagree violently with things I have said. This doesn't bother me much either. If you know who you are, and know what you know, you can't be seriously upset by some total stranger misunderstanding, getting hold of the wrong end of the stick, simply being wrong or just not liking the cut of your jib. All that is their lookout.
I think it's an age thing actually. People below the age of 45 or so have been so coddled at home and at school, and so damn badly taught, that it must be a bit of a struggle for them to become fully-fledged adult human beings. I was brought up in a much more robust era, and even I find it difficult to pretend to be one of those. But at least I know when I'm right and some other fool isn't. I know when I've made a mistake too, and how to admit it. These things aren't very difficult after all.
As for thumbs up or down, or little faces black with rage and moronic disapproval, this is mere entertainment surely? The more the merrier, what?
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>> I think it's an age thing actually. People below the age of 45 or so
>> have been so coddled at home and at school and so damn badly taught that
>> it must be a bit of a struggle for them to become fully-fledged adult human
>> beings.
I think it's an age thing too. I could say that the older generations look down on the ones below and pour forth idiotic rose tinted spectacle rubbish of the most ignorant kind. But then I'm only 41 and so have only just found where my bottom is, so there's no need to take anything I say seriously.
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I don't care about a few thumbs down. Nor even an angry face.
I am however mildly irritated that my carefully crafted words on another thread have been hidden from view because people voted them as "offensive" when the only offence was because they were misunderstood, because somebody thought that another post had been written by me, but it wasn't.
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Post thumbs up - Pat
