I started a small manufacturing business last year. Just me, making stuff from plastic and ally. The financial year here is the calender year, so only really 9 months of accounts.
Each month I input my receipts onto the computer, and the software allows each to be categorized, input and output vat calculated, and I do a nice little printout that shows expenses brroken down by category, post/phone/materials/tools etc. Some months there is only 7 or 8 receipts, others maybe 20 or so.
Not knowing exacly how the tax system works here, and the fact that I made a thumping loss (which can be carried over for self employed people), I decided to let an accountant finish it up and complete my tax return.
So I get his bill today, and he's charged me for 10.5 hours. It seems a bit excesive to me, as even if he's gone through every single receipt and entered them onto his software, there's certainly not a day and a halfs work. Ok, so he renamed some of the categories to suit the entries on the tax form. I do the same each month with my accounts package and it takes 20 mins tops for each month. It's not like I just gave him a plastic bag full of receipts and invoices - each month was sorted individually with a cover sheet, together with the VAT return, bank statement, and any invoices issued. I also gave him the final cover sheet that shows the whole year's worth of entries.
So what do you guys think - is 10.5 hours excessive?
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...So what do you guys think - is 10.5 hours excessive?...
How many 10-hour notes have you got in your pocket?
The only important figure is how much he's charged in pounds sterling.
My best guess for an annual audit for a small business £500 to £1,000.
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Is this in the UK?
Assuming it is, and the business is a sole trade, unincorporated, my employer would be able to do all that Dave requires for £199 + vat. That does not include an audit, but no business turning over less than (iirc) £5million is required to have one anyway.
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He charges £50/hour plus vat. So the total is not too bad.
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Big moan in the first post though??
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Ten and a half hours is a bit much for this kind of work.
This is how it should work:-
Client supplies back up disk or email copy of computer record. We re categorise a few bits, disclaim the stuff HMRC doesnt allow, and sort out the CAs. If client is happy with the result, tax comps/return prepared and, subject to clients approval, submitted as required. £199 + vat all in. Modern accountants at this end of the market do not charge by the hour - clients expect a fixed fee. If they did, however, I would be shocked if anyone used more than 5 hours to prepare your accounts and tax calculations.
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My independant accountant charges me £175 to do my tax return and thats all receipts and written books. Shes a diamond.
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Until you can trust them it is always a good idea to agree a fixed price for this sort of thing.
How did you find out about this accountant?
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I explained to a customer once:-
Pizza tech charges £15 an hour to repair a computer. He takes four hours to repair it because he is in experienced.
I charge £30 an hour, I fix it within half an hour. Who is cheaper?
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Is that because they techa the pizz?
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Pizza tech is an american phrase for people that fix computers on the side because they know how to format a computer.
It was coined after pizza delivery boys were spotted advertising in graigslist (like gumtree) with advert reading like this
"I am very food at fixing your computers, I have been fixing my mates for years, very good at feformating to make your computer fasta. Giv uz a call on **********. I only charge £5 an hour init"
All spelling mistakes and typos are done on purpose :)
My point was that they have low hourly rates but always end up costing a lot more because of the damage they do.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Fri 23 Apr 10 at 12:17
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Thanks guys. I'm in Sweden unfortunately, and competition is a dirty word here. 2 accountants in town, and you can bet they charge exactly the same and take the same time!
I'll live with it this year, and maybe get him to do a fixed price for next time, now he knows what it involves, and see if I can get a better deal. I don't mind paying for proffesional services, but money's tight so I need to save every penny I can.
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I am sure Sweden has more than one town :). So if need to be maybe finding a new accountant out of town is the answer.
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Internet. Get it done anywhere. UK revenue used to be obliged to do it for you, Don't know if the same situation exists now though.
MD
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On the other hand...a good accountant can save you a lot of money. Luckily I found one. He's like a re-incarnation of Uriah Heep in personality but he spots every loophole going. I'd love to take him drinking sometime. I rather suspect he's never done that......
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Oh do tell me he wrings his hands in an oily manner.............
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Absolutely ! He's even got those metal sort of bicycle clips to hold his shirt sleeves out of the ink and a wicked comb over !
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Accountants fees - Iffy
