I once had a work colleague ring me at home one night and tell me she felt awful and wasn't going in to work the next day...so would I do the honours in the morning and report her sick.
No problem. Trouble was after I put the phone down, I realised I didn't know what was actually wrong with her..and..our HR set up was notoriously bureaucratic. Instead of troubling her by ringing her back (she was a quality cop, a Sergeant like I was at the time) I thought i'd bung something vague down on the form and she could correct it when she was next back at work.
So the following morning, I filled in the form with her name and warrant number etc, all info I could get from indices in my office...then when i got to the bit that states what's wrong ...I couldn't help myself...I put 'Rolf Harris syndrome'..and my lateral thinking was along the lines of when Rolf Harris was painting he'd say "Do you know what it is yet"....and that the officer and I would have a laugh when she came in to change it.
Trouble was the Executive Officer in the HR unit saw it, thought it was a real medical condition and went and asked her Higher Executive Officer what it was. She didn't know either (obviously) so the two of them got a medical dictionary out...and of course it wasn't in there...so they rang the Met Police Occupational Health Unit...who rang the Chief Medical Officer's office.....until eventually someone senior and medically trained told them it wasn't a true ailment and must be a 'wind up'.
I was oblivious to all of this until the EO (who's office was opposite mine) tried to tell me I was in trouble with the HEO and sure enough, I get called in to her office, where yet again a full dressing down was attempted...trouble was I couldn't concentrate for my laughing, so she had to give up.
I went and told my boss, just in case (or when) she got awkward about it....and he laughed more than I did, we were like two silly schoolkids, with tears rolling down our cheeks.
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We make it an absolute rule that if you are sick, you (or relative if too ill, injured, etc) phone in on the morning before 10.30 am and speak to an appropriate manager.
Getting someone else to phone in, leaving a message with a colleague etc is a disciplinary offence.
We have had too many instances of people claiming to have left messages, which mysteriously never get passed on.
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Tee Hee ! In my industry there has long been a culture that being off sick is not really an option. In my own case I've had 3 days off in 33 years. Not that I've not felt like it from time to time. The only real excuse which cuts it is death or its imminent likelyhood.
The fact that most people in that environment are on some form of performance related pay does seem to colour their views of how ill they really are of course.
:-)
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I have had the odd day off with a cold over the years. Yes a common cold!
Not that I was on deaths door but when I get a cold you would not want to be anywhere near me. I have a " hair trigger" cough and I sound as if I am about to cough up my insides.
I know how awful I sound and after one demo it was readily accepted that for the good of the office I stay at home thus just facing exile to a spare bedroom:-(
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I hate the martyrs that come in to work coughing and spluttering their germs all over the place, phones, keyboards, kettles - get home and stay out my way.
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Inclined to agree with that Rob but not all workplaces are big on pastoral matters even in this day and age sadly.
When the culture is one of shape up or ship out and your income is primarily commission based and you've got a family to feed, the temptation to swallow a Sudafed, blow your nose and get on with it is quite high.
Not saying it's right by the way. Not at all in fact but it is reality for some.
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>> Inclined to agree with that Rob but not all workplaces are big on pastoral matters
>> even in this day and age sadly.
>>
>> When the culture is one of shape up or ship out and your income is
>> primarily commission based and you've got a family to feed, the temptation to swallow a
>> Sudafed, blow your nose and get on with it is quite high.
And even where sick leave is regarded as acceptable best not waste the boss's (limited) goodwill on the common cold. Suppress the symptoms with Paracetamol alternated with Ibuprofen plus decongestant/anti histamine and carry on.
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Going on the sick is an extra week's holiday - for some.
A Crown Prosecution Service worker told me about 'self-certificated' - unchecked - sick leave.
CPS workers can have up to five days a year, and some view it as extra annual holiday to be taken as required.
They call it 'gardening leave' because while skiving at public expense is fine, it's best to be near or by the house while you do it, just in case a manager swings by with a get well soon card.
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in the last 40 years I have taken so little sick leave I can actually recount them
1/ Broken foot - (broken at work as it happens) 1 week off, 4 weeks on crutches taxied to the nearest work location (before working at home was technically possible)
2/ Tonsillitis, so bad the doctor was called out and jabbed me in the bum with a massive shot of antibiotics - 4 days off
3/ Broken Ankle, 2 days off - 5 weeks working at home
4/ Broken Ribs (car accident) 1 week off - 4 weeks working at home
5/ Broken Elbow - 3 days off, 1 week working at home.
6/ 18 months off - retirement.
- Seems to be a common theme here thinking about it.
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The first day I had off sick from work I was taken home in an ambulance. I'd been sat at the top of a drying oven, surrounded by yellow cake, trying to work out why the damper control was hunting. I thought I was suffering from a common cold but I threw up into my mask, collapsed and had to be helped back down to the ground.
One week off with Russian Infuenza and something that makes me smile whenever someone takes a couple of days off and says they had flu.
The second time I had time off I was taken to hospital in an ambulance. I'd been out off-roading on the bike but came to grief when I lifted the front wheel over a bump but the rear bounced and smacked me hard up the jacksy. Immediate, excruciating pain so off to A&E on a Sunday afternoon. After X-rays and examination I was told it was just 'bruising' and sent home. Curled up on the couch in constant pain with no sleep overnight but still went into work next day.
About 11AM Monday morning I got a phone call from the hospital saying that they were sending an ambulance to collect me. My X-rays had been reviewed and they'd found that I'd fractured a veterbra. Six weeks in a plaster corset.
You really don't want to know how a combination of constant pain, strong painkillers and lack of movement affects your toilet routine.
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>> in the last 40 years I have taken so little sick leave I can actually
>> recount them
>>
>> 2/ Tonsillitis, so bad the doctor was called out and jabbed me in the bum
>> with a massive shot of antibiotics - 4 days off
>>
>>
I'd ask for a 2nd opinion or look for a new doctor. Tonsils aren't in yer 'arris.
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Iffy,
So how does it work in your place if you eat a dodgy prawn and take a couple of days off with part digested food shooting out at both ends? Do you have to trouble a doctor and pay for a certificate?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 19 Feb 12 at 21:51
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Heh heh ! I know places where Alka Seltzer, a cork and a recommendation not to cough would be the suggested remedy Bromp.
:-)
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Some of the crap I digested at work made me want to throw up at times.
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Tell me about it Z.
I'm not jealous you know, not even slightly. Nope not me....
:-(
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I've booked time off to sick 3 times in 16 years. One of those was related to the car accident I had in Italy - I had a sick note from the Italian doctor. I only used it in the UK to get the holiday days back.
When I really had to book time off and self-certify... had to ask how I did it. After working for the company for over ten years.
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I threw sickies twice in my career - The day after Prince Charles' marriage to the unfortunate Diana. 'Twas the drink you know...:-( and one day after I returned to work when my first wife died - I woke up not wanting to go to work so I didn't. Like Zero - I was rarely off sick - In the ten years before retiring I was off for a week in 08 with the worst sore throat I ever experienced - no other symptoms....I reckon I picked it up on a flight from the US......
Last edited by: R.P. on Sun 19 Feb 12 at 22:06
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...So how does it work in your place if you eat a dodgy prawn and take a couple of days off with part digested food shooting out at both ends? Do you have to trouble a doctor and pay for a certificate?...
Bromp,
Interesting that your response to disgraceful organised skiving by public servants is to ask what happens in a newspaper.
The problem is the usual one, public money frittered away by slack management and feather bedding of people who are incapable of doing a proper job.
In a way that wouldn't matter, but these workshy clowns are the same ones who squeal about how over-worked and under pressure they are.
So what's the answer?
Mine would be to sack the lot, yours appears to be to ask what happens in a newspaper.
But hey, we're all chums on here most of the time, so here's the answer:
I don't know if we have self-certification or not, and I'm certainly not saying we are all industrious souls whose only thought on waking is: What can I do for the company today?
But rarely does anyone 'pull a sickie' in the sense of a day off here, a couple of days off there.
The working culture is miles apart, take sickness pay.
My doctor thought my benefits were relatively mean - in comparison to staff in the health service.
The editor told me my benefits were generous - in comparison to those who joined after me who have much inferior contracts of employment.
I tend to agree with the editor (for once), partly because I know other people in the private sector, particularly those in smaller companies, do not have the benefits I do.
From what I can gather, there was a skiving culture in the shipbuilding and repairing industries on the Tyne and the Wear.
It contributed to their demise, there was no limitless well of public money to draw from.
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>> Bromp,
>>
>> Interesting that your response to disgraceful organised skiving by public servants is to ask what
>> happens in a newspaper.
The assertion that 'somebody' in some other office is abusing short term sick leave to get extra holiday has been around for all my 34 years in the public service. I was told by the Boss in my induction talk in 1978 that it 'used' to happen but not now and certainly not on his watch. I've been told much the same every time I've moved since.
It was your comment about self certificated - unchecked - sick leave that raised my interest. AFAIK self certification for absences up to a week was introduced by government around 1981. Economy measure to save the NHS from cost of millions of diagnoses of 'cold', 'bombay belly' and the like.
Anywhere I've worked it's been checked for years on a back to work interview. If one of my crew has been off I'll take their self cert, check they're recovered and in the process discreetly probe the nature of their absence. Emerging patterns be they Mondays, regular 'issues' of a sort the female suffers or perhaps chronic conditions are noted. There are HR processes whether disciplinary for abuse or via references to occupational health for real problems.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 20 Feb 12 at 10:19
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...There are HR processes whether disciplinary for abuse or via references to occupational health for real problems...
Pleased to hear it, seems likely the instances I've been told of have been allowed to continue due to slack management.
As you say, hard to judge the scale of the problem, whether you are looking from the inside or outside.
I doubt it's widespread, my last two informants didn't suggest so.
But again like you, allegations of this nature have reached me over the years, although not very often.
Nor do I believe everything I am told, but I'm reasonably confident of the truth of the last allegation I heard against the CPS.
Had I not been, I wouldn't have posted it.
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>> take a couple of days off with part digested food shooting out at both ends?
The only reason I've ever called in sick was if I couldn't manage to stay out of the bathroom long enough to drive to work. I've worked under attendance-related, if not performance-related, pay conditions all my life.
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>>I hate the martyrs that come in to work coughing and spluttering their germs all over the place
Ah, the mucus troopers.
The opposite end of the spectrum: One cough and they're off.
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"Trouble was the Executive Officer in the HR unit saw it, thought it was a real medical condition and went and asked her Higher Executive Officer what it was. She didn't know either (obviously) so the two of them got a medical dictionary out...and of course it wasn't in there...so they rang the Met Police Occupational Health Unit...who rang the Chief Medical Officer's office.....until eventually someone senior and medically trained told them it wasn't a true ailment and must be a 'wind up'."
My brother got into a scarape after filling in a medical questionairre for work:
Is there any common cause of death in male members of your family?
Yes
If yes, give details?
The German navy.
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Look after yourself and if you are not well take time off.
You are a number working for a employer always remember that.>:)
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I agree Dutchie. They wont' remember you struggling in half dead when they want to get rid of you.
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>;) I know happened to me when I got ill,the t w a t who run the outfit used to say you let me down.
I should have put him down.
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Agree completely with Dutchie and CGN.
Seen far too many good colleagues 'let go' with far too much indifference to be under any illusion that employee loyalty exists in modern corporate culture.
I am under no illusion that I am a cell on a spreadsheet, which could be deleted or amended at any time by someone who I have never met, am never likely to, and who knows and cares as much about mine and my family's welfare as I do about theirs. Go in, do my job, keep my head down, and minimise as much risk as possible. That's the way they wants it, that's the way they gets it.
Last edited by: DP on Mon 20 Feb 12 at 16:17
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It all went to ratshot when "personnel" became "Human Resources" As soon as you know you are given the same label as unprocessed raw material you know your days are numbered.
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>> It all went to ratshot when....
Did you get the pep-talk/waffle about "our staff are our biggest asset" shortly before a round of redundancies too?
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>> >> It all went to ratshot when....
>>
>> Did you get the pep-talk/waffle about "our staff are our biggest asset" shortly before a
>> round of redundancies too?
Of course. Cornerstone of the business apparently.
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Just going through redundancy process now; will find out in a week or so whether I'm one of the ones being let go. Not a great atmosphere in the office at the moment.
Last edited by: Focus on Mon 20 Feb 12 at 17:19
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Seen that happen in a couple of places - more recently in the FE College upon who's board I sit...not good. I was actually in a meeting with a guy when the "death squads" turned up at his office.....not a happy bunny.
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I was working at a large American stock broker, they made people redundant on Mondays.
Over the weekend their desks would be cleared, personal contents placed in a cardboard box, and their entry and access card blocked.
Upon arrival at work the card would not let them access to the building and they were escorted to security and their box handed over and told to go away and await the P45 and redundancy (if any) cheque in the post.
I was so pleased when they nearly went bust and all the management were accused of fraud and sacked. Bought by Bank of America in the end.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 20 Feb 12 at 17:33
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Just before I left...I had to tell several civilian staff that they were being made redundant. It should have been done by one of the senior management team, but 'no one was available' so 'would I do it' as there was obvious time constraints to ensure they heard first.
I psyched myself up...spoke to a couple personally, but had to ring two as they weren't at work and weren't due in for a couple of days...and I didn't want the rumour mill to get to them first.
Every single one of them made my job infinitely more easy than it could have been and I take my hat off to them for that.
Not nice, when you think of mortgages and families etc.
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I had to sack my 10 staff when my garage was forced to close in 1992.
Decent blokes all and it was one of the hardest and most stressful things I've ever done.
Mind you - they all got new jobs while I never had a proper job again. (Age, mostly)
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"Human Capital" is an expression I came across in a meeting the other day....:-p
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They have even subcontracted our HR dept out.
A colleague who had a real problem with her boss went to HR with the problem and HR said take it up with the boss!
The boss was making unwelcome advances to the lady involved and HR could not care less.
So the lady resigned. Provided evidence (lots of emails) and the company had to pay a big settlement.
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Was in a place once where they came around with envelopes for everyone.
If your envelope had your name printed on it you were out. If not you were ok.
Farce really, as everyone knew who was out at the same time they did (all in an open plan office).
They ended up asking them all back a couple of months later as the efficiency plans that they had implemented didn't work and they needed the staff.
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>> Did you get the pep-talk/waffle about "our staff are our biggest asset" shortly before a
>> round of redundancies too?
>>
By "our staff" they mean the ones who are going to remain.
>> "Human Capital" is an expression I came across in a meeting the other day....:-p
>>
That term may predate HR, and the theory behind is sometimes attributed to Adam Smith.
Unless you view your work/employment as slavery[*], human capital is an intangible asset that is not owned by the employer.
[*] some contributors here seemingly view their work as slavery. They do have an opt out of this slavery - stop whinging and go find another employer/work that they like, or better still become a master and employ some slaves. It all boils down to the fact that no one owes anybody a living.
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>> some contributors here seemingly view their work as slavery. They do have an opt
>> out of this slavery - stop whinging and go find another employer/work that they like,
>> or better still become a master and employ some slaves. It all boils down to
>> the fact that no one owes anybody a living.
My job isn't slavery. On the contrary, it pays pretty well. But neither do I view it as permanent. Only a fool would assume their role is secure in most companies today. At least if mine and my friends and relatives employers are any indication.
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I'm on a three month contract - I've never been happier - stress free to the nth degree. Other workers complain they're stressed, they have absolutely no idea what work related stress is, not at all. I just smile to myself.
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>> Look after yourself and if you are not well take time off.
You are a number working for a employer always remember that.>:) >>
Take two companies providing identical services/goods, except one has a good work ethic and the other has workers with the attitude described by Dutchie. When the second company fails, guess who will be seen as number?
>> They wont' remember you struggling in half dead when they want to get rid of you. >>
They will remember you when the company fails and your number as one of the numbers to get rid of.
>> Seen far too many good colleagues 'let go' with far too much indifference to be under any illusion that employee loyalty exists in modern corporate culture. >>
if you work in a modern corporate culture, you are likely to be working for others who are themselves employees, and who in turn will face the sack from another number up the chain whose loyalty only lies as far as the next paycheck. The Board will be in the same position.
The small company where the owner is the employer is likely to have a different mindset.
There is a solution to being one of these "numbers" and changing the "corporate culture". Become an owner employer yourself, and treat your workers the way you wanted to be when you were an employee. One day you may be an employer as big as Jobs, Gates, Zuckerberg, et al. and be able to allow your employees to take as many sickies as they want.
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A newspaper I didn't work for invited the hacks to a staff meeting held in two rooms.
Asked to one room, you were staying, asked to another, you were out.
Some redundancies happen instantly, if that's technically possible.
A large reporter of South African origin was 'let go' in this way.
He was known to have a temper and was escorted from the editor's office and the building by two security guards.
The guards wouldn't let him back in to collect his stuff, so he thumped one of them.
Fair enough, if that's how he felt, but we thought he should have thumped the managing director, who was almost certainly responsible for his departure.
Last edited by: Iffy on Mon 20 Feb 12 at 18:06
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Many years ago I was in the office just after Christmas and our manager was calling people into an office for a chat with them. I got called in....
... sat down and he pushed an enveloped over the table and told me to open it and asked me what I thought. Thinking it was redundancy or similar... but it was a pay rise (about £5k I think)! I was a bit gobsmacked to be honest. Especially as pay rises never happened at that time of year.
So come pay rise time I didn't think I'd get anything. Except I did in the normal pay review - a similar amount I recall.
Not had pay rises like that since that manager left :-(
All the best to Focus - fingers crossed.
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>> All the best to Focus - fingers crossed.
>>
+1
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Thanks chaps. Actually it could work to my advantage - the redundancy payment works out at about £10k (not taxed), which of course would be very handy (mk2 Focus? :)
The problem would be finding another job before using it all up - not confident of that at the moment. And I really like doing the job I've got.
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Many years ago, when I told my general manager I was leaving the dear old BBC he asked what he could do to make me change my mind.
I was getting quite a pay rise in my new job and knew he could not match it so I stunned him by saying that I would take zero pay but given a free hand to save them money I would take the savings as pay. He did not take up the offer.
Much later in my career I was called in by my senior manager to hear " Your role no longer exists".
The guy was generally recognised as pretty useless but was taken aback when I called him a liar on many counts. I knew it was a slimming down of management numbers so no great surprise but the lame reasons were pathetic. He was often referred to as Teflon with good reason, an example of being promoted beyond his skills, a real seagull..
I changed roles many times during my career but these were the only two events where I said what I wanted rather then what was expected.
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'except one has a good work ethic and the other has workers with the attitude described by Dutchie.'
Can work the other way around mind, a company can foster and create that attitude in people.
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Oh the joys of being comfortably retired, reasonably fit and healthy, and out of all the work related politics and bull excrement.
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Work is a four letter word.
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Playing bureaucrats at their own game - Cliff Pope
