NOWS back under different name, or a brand new newspaper?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17070555
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It was fairly obvious that the NOTW would be replaced by the Sun on a Sunday - they just waited a little. It will appeal in the same dumbed down way as the NOTW I guess. And probably feature similar quality journalism - well it is the Sun.
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No doubt, too big a market to ignore. I wonder if they will be upto their old tricks?
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Sounds like the Sun were up to tricks for sure. What with all the recent arrests. Close down the Sun too and then introduce a better quality alternative to both.
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Surrey Comet - that must be the apogee of his career...
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...Surrey Comet - that must be the apogee of his career...
A job such as chief reporter on the News of the World is a real brain damage/burn out one, even without being arrested.
It's not something most people could or would want to do for too many years.
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...I wonder if they will be up to their old tricks?...
Like catching criminals the police haven't the resources or ability to catch?
Or turning out a newspaper seven days a week that millions of people like to read?
Or running a successful business which makes money and provides employment for hundreds?
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Well I wouldn't call those tricks in the sense that I meant, but I think you knew that. I'll try again do you think they will be all above board, no need for arrests or inquires and the such like?
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I doubt any voicemail messages are currently being listened to, or will be in the future.
All the arrests and general official - and less general public - displeasure has seen to that.
On t'other hand, going after rich and powerful men (criminals or not) often requires the use of unconventional methods - these guys just don't present themselves to you on a plate.
They also have the resources and ability to do a good job of shooting the messenger, whether the messenger deserves to be shot or not.
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>> On t'other hand, going after rich and powerful men (criminals or not) often requires the
>> use of unconventional methods - these guys just don't present themselves to you on a
>> plate.
I think that's the thing, I've a suspicion that we will be back around full circle with some other scandle and some sort of outrage. The race for fewer and fewer readers every year I think will be the cause.
>> They also have the resources and ability to do a good job of shooting the
>> messenger, whether the messenger deserves to be shot or not.
I don't think many people bring down papers, rich or otherwise?
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...I don't think many people bring down papers, rich or otherwise? ...
Not bring down, the NoW was the architect of its own misfortune.
Max Moseley is a good example of someone making the absolute most of a very small complaint.
Yes, the story said it was an SS/Nazi orgy and no such uniforms were to be seen.
The girls were wearing black military uniforms and caps - all they lacked was insignia - but the story was still incorrect.
A relatively minor error, but Moseley filled his boots and continues to do so, albeit he now focuses more on the privacy angle.
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>> A relatively minor error, but Moseley filled his boots and continues to do so, albeit
>> he now focuses more on the privacy angle.
>>
I think Max Mosely is absolutely correct to do so.
I have no understanding of why he or others wish to do those things...but consenting adults should be able to have some privacy in their private lives. The was the NoW tried to blackmail the female participants, to get them to support their version of events, was absolutely disgraceful.
The NoW treated him with the utmost contempt..and ever after he's fought back...good on him.
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>> I have no understanding of why he or others wish to do those things...but consenting
>> adults should be able to have some privacy in their private lives.
As soon as a third party is involved, it is no longer private, The other party can bring anything to the pubic domain.
>> The NoW treated him with the utmost contempt..and ever after he's fought back...good on him.
He deserves it - the man contemptible. He won on the slightest point of fact.
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>> As soon as a third party is involved, it is no longer private, The other
>> party can bring anything to the pubic domain.
>>
>>
There's a difference between 'can' and 'should'.
If you had a conversation with a few folk in your local about soemthing mildly controversial....then later in the week see it's been put in the local rag by one of your drinking companions, without your knowledge or consent...would you think 'that's fine, no problem'..or..'I thought we were having a private conversation'?
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>> If you had a conversation with a few folk in your local about soemthing mildly
>> controversial....then later in the week see it's been put in the local rag by one
>> of your drinking companions, without your knowledge or consent...would you think 'that's fine, no problem'..or..'I
>> thought we were having a private conversation'?
There is a difference between a friend down the pub and a paid prostitute, there is a difference between "something mildly controversial" and sado masochistic sex games with overtly Nazi tendencies.
Especially when
a: your father was a leading light of the fascist movement
and
b: you were sitting in judgement on the behaviour of others.
He was a nasty vindictive hypocrite who unfortunately didn't quite get slapped enough
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sitting on the judgement of others. You mean in his job in motorsport. I don't see how that and his sexual preferences are linked? I can't say i know much about his personality but i doubt many people high up in their field are kind souls. A hypocrite ? I don't know but if he is he should get on like a house on fire in his dealing with the newspapers.
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>> is a difference between "something mildly controversial" and sado masochistic sex games with overtly Nazi
>> tendencies.
>>
>> Especially when
>> a: your father was a leading light of the fascist movement
>> and
>> b: you were sitting in judgement on the behaviour of others.
I'm not convinced about the Nazi angle. People that like that sort of thing, like the discipline angle don't they...all that leather and whips......and unfortunately so did the Nazi's.
The fascist father wasn't his fault was it.
The sitting in judgement of others is in a wholly different sphere. If he were a Mary Whitehouse type...then fair enough. He isn't/ wasn't.
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>>
>> A relatively minor error, but Moseley filled his boots and continues to do so, albeit
>> he now focuses more on the privacy angle.
>>
>>
I'd say it was pretty fundamental to the whole story. I think from the beginning it was about more than his case. Personally I think it was people at their worst hoovering up any sort of tittle tattle and the papers and there worst as well.
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Do you know the biggest joke?
Some of the loudest moaners when the Old Bill declined to get involved in the hacking at the beginning (because they weren't that interested and wanted to prioritise their resources elsewhere)...are now moaning at how intense the enquiry is and how many people are employed on it....
.....after all the hoo-hah right up to the top of govt and the forced retirements of the man at the top and one about 3rd or 4th in the chain of command.
Sue Akers is hardly going to do a quick job on this one is she..after all that lot.
On thing it has done is nicely show that the Old Bill can't do everything and sometimes have to prioritise work. Many people are still under the illusion that a crime = an investigation...not necessarily.
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Second biggest joke ?
Sun hacks moaning about the breach of their human rights !!! You couldn't make that up.
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>> Second biggest joke ?
>>
>> Sun hacks moaning about the breach of their human rights !!! You couldn't make that
>> up.
>>
I saw that, weren't they complaining about the police listening in on their phone calls? Surely if they've nothing to hide?
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"On t'other hand, going after rich and powerful men (criminals or not) often requires the use of unconventional methods - these guys just don't present themselves to you on a plate."
So illegal phone hacking is just an "unconventional method"....
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"...often requires the use of unconventional methods..."
Weasel words.
"Unconventional methods" means what? Illegal methods? Legal, but unethical methods? "Legal and ethical" methods that you wouldn't admit to?
The general tenor of your post is again (I say "again", because you've made similar justifications in the past) along the lines of "the end justifies the means."
Sorry - I don't buy it.
Last edited by: FocalPoint on Fri 17 Feb 12 at 18:17
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CURRANT BUN
Mean halftruths are our specialty
We grass folks up for fun
For we are Rupert’s heroes
On the Sunday Currant Bun
We deal in false celebrity
We sting but don’t get stung
(For we cosy up to coppers
On the Sunday Currant Bung)…
We drink shampoo; we guzzle lox;
Our work is never done
On Rupert’s exhumed baby
The Sunday Currant Bun
ARGY! GERTCHA! BARGEE! GOTCHA!
SUNDAY CURRRANT BUN
OI!
SUNDAY CURRANT BUN!
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"I doubt any voicemail messages are currently being listened to, or will be in the future.
All the arrests and general official - and less general public - displeasure has seen to that."
Would that be the same displeasure that didn't seem to bother and hasn't stopped the press using paparazzi pics (usually complete with telephoto lenses)? Wasn't it the Mail which said they regretted it and wouldn't repeat, post-Diana?
www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1291102/Christine-Bleakley-unveils-svelte-bikini-body-cools-poolside-Frank-Lampard.html
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6511047.stm
current.com/community/89103325_daily-mail-sinks-to-new-low-checking-out-children-on-the-beach.htm
prove the point.
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Listening to a non password protected voicemail is apparently illegal, but on the scale of criminality it ranks with opening a letter addressed to somebody else.
The 'victims' of this terrible crime have done very nicely out of it.
The really nasty one - Milly Dowler - turned out to be nothing like it was first painted.
I've lost track, but I think it emerged her voicemails probably weren't listened to.
As regards Moseley, he's desperate to be remembered as an important figure of the 20th century.
To build that fictional image, he needs lots of press articles describing him in that way, so he has sought publicity.
The NoW ensured he will be remembered for what he is - a dirty old man.
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This paper the Sun got a big following.After the reporting of the Liverpool supporters death fiasco I have never bothered reading the Sun again.
Come to think of it the Telly is sending out the same rubbish we are all brainwashed.>:)
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>> Listening to a non password protected voicemail is apparently illegal, but on the scale of
>> criminality it ranks with opening a letter addressed to somebody else.
>>
>> The 'victims' of this terrible crime have done very nicely out of it.
>>
>> The really nasty one - Milly Dowler - turned out to be nothing like it
>> was first painted.
>>
>> I've lost track, but I think it emerged her voicemails probably weren't listened to.
Her voice mails certainly were listened to. The allegation that Mulcaire deleted messages may have been wrong - rather the telco deleted them after x days.
But when suggestion came out NI were apologising rather than denying; the doubt was over what the technology did rather than morality/practicality on part of Mulcaire.
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I think in the Milly Dowler case the messages were automatically deleted after they had been listened to. The default on most (all?) mobile is unless you save a message it is automatically deleted after a period. Probably sooner/immediately if the mailbox is full and older messages have been listened to.
So the messages were deleted by the action of Mulcaire, i.e. listening to them ended up with them deleted. I suppose from a legal point of view he didn't actually delete them. They were automatically deleted. Same thing in my book.
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>> The NoW ensured he will be remembered for what he is - a dirty old
>> man.
>>
...but he didn't need to be and shouldn't have been. The man did nothing illegal or if he did (prostitution type offence) it was at the minor end of the scale.
How many saints are there in this world?
He was humiliated as a public figure, because he had an 'interesting' private life and it would sell a few more papers. That is plain wrong and should never be allowed to happen.
If he was a moralising politician and that sort of revelation found him out...fair enough. If not, why shouldn't he have some privacy?
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>> He was humiliated as a public figure,
Quite right too, for that person to indulge in that particular fetish in that particular way deserves humiliation and ridicule.
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...He was humiliated as a public figure...
The story was true, some people may have thought: "Good on yer, still getting your oats at your age."
Humiliation is a judgment made by those who think that way.
Moseley sought to build a public profile, the NoW made that profile complete.
It was also a reminder to those who seek publicity that we edit the newspaper, not them.
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>> Moseley sought to build a public profile, the NoW made that profile complete.
In what way?
He was a businessman with a senior role in running Motorsport. I don't think, and in a way I'm looking for you to prove me wrong, that he was either a political moraliser or somebody who sought 'clean living' type product endorsements.
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>> >> Moseley sought to build a public profile, the NoW made that profile complete.
>>
>> In what way?
>>
>> He was a businessman with a senior role in running Motorsport. I don't think, and
>> in a way I'm looking for you to prove me wrong, that he was either
>> a political moraliser or somebody who sought 'clean living' type product endorsements.
He was sitting in judgement and controlling the behaviour of those who were under his control.
He was also a self serving, nasty petty vindictive megalomaniac, who pursued vendettas against those who opposed him.
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Sun on Sunday to launch 'next week'.
And you can bet it will.
In sharp contrast to many projects undertaken using public money, there will be no cost over-runs, or millions wasted on IT, consultants, reports and meetings.
There will be no slippage into infinity of the target date, and the finished product will be a good one - it has to be.
There will be is lots of long days and sleepless nights for the much-derided hacks involved.
There will be tension and arguments, one or two people might fall by the wayside, but the job will get done.
Pity major public projects are not delivered in the same way.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17092863
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Notwithstanding the fact that private companies have traditionally screwed the public sector for all they can get.
"There will be is lots of long days and sleepless nights for the much-derided hacks involved."
My heart bleeds for them, at least they have homes to go to unlike 15000 members of the public sector working their butts off in Afghanistan.
Last edited by: R.P. on Mon 20 Feb 12 at 07:42
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>> at least they have homes to go to unlike 15000 members of the public sector working their butts off in Afghanistan. >>
Raises a lot of questions?
Those people are on duty in effect 24 hours a day. They don't get, overtime pay, or double time, or night shift allowances, or statutory "Bank Holidays", or banker bonuses, or share options, ... .....
They don't even phone in sick. They take orders and do as they are told, they are in Afghanistan because their middle-class public sector masters in Whitehall sitting behind desks sent them there.
So:
Why are they working for that bit of the public sector?
Why don't the middle-classes work for that bit of the sector?
Why are the leaders of that sector drawn from the upper-classes?
Why are the cannon fodder drawn from the working-classes?
What would happen if they had a union, especially one headed by Mark Serwotka or Bob Crow?
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>>
>> Those people are on duty in effect 24 hours a day. They don't get, overtime
>> pay, or double time, or night shift allowances, or statutory "Bank Holidays", or banker bonuses,
>> or share options, ... .....
We do get extra pay for being there though.
>>
>> They don't even phone in sick. They take orders and do as they are told,
>> they are in Afghanistan because their middle-class public sector masters in Whitehall sitting behind desks
>> sent them there.
Who else would? We live in a civilian run democracy.
>> Why don't the middle-classes work for that bit of the sector?
>>
>> Why are the leaders of that sector drawn from the upper-classes?
>>
>> Why are the cannon fodder drawn from the working-classes?
I think that's rather out of date these days.
>> What would happen if they had a union, especially one headed by Mark Serwotka or
>> Bob Crow?
Things would be rather interesting. ;-)
>>
>>
>>
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>> Sun on Sunday to launch 'next week'.
>>
>> And you can bet it will.
>>
>
Oh for gods sake, will you stop with this "newspapers" beats the public sector crap. At least the public sector is not full of reprehensible sleaze bags who belittle people, break the law, tell lies and are completely without morals. Hardly something to look up to. Journos are on par with estate agents.
Anyway Its a piece of cake to launch the Sun on Sunday, as a project is damn easy. Here is the project plan.
1 Remove NotW banner from Screen
2 Paste Sunday Sun into header.
Opps - Here is a project change
1a do some Advertising.
Everything else is in place. The journos, the presses, the distribution, EVERYTHING else is in place.
Before you start parading how wonderful the "press is" just explain WHY there has to be a "new" sun.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 20 Feb 12 at 08:37
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A couple of predictably sour responses.
The public sector has a dreadful record for returning what might generally be called 'value for money', it's their own incompetence makes them an easy target.
Some things are in place, but a lot are not, most of the journalists have gone their separate ways.
Rupert has lifted the suspensions of those arrested but still in his employ because he knows it will be all hands to the pump.
The paper is printed under contract at various centres around the country.
Most of those presses will be pleased to get the Saturday night work back, but some may have secured alternative contracts, and those that haven't will certainly have laid off staff who were printing the News of the World.
There doesn't have to be a Sun on Sunday, it's a commercial opportunity that News International is hoping to exploit.
The new paper will stand or fall on its merits, if no one buys it, it will close almost as quickly as it is opening.
Which is how it should be.
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>> A couple of predictably sour responses.
A response to a continual sour barrage you mean?
>> Some things are in place, but a lot are not, most of the journalists have
>> gone their separate ways.
The dole queue. Easy to drag them back from there. *
>> The paper is printed under contract at various centres around the country.
>>
>> Most of those presses will be pleased to get the Saturday night work back, but
>> some may have secured alternative contracts
Like? it may have escape your notice but there is no alternate contracts. the news print game is dying.
>>, and those that haven't will certainly have laid off
You know where to find them - the dole queue. Doesn't take many men to run a modern press now anyway. Not since those lazy idle print union slackers were all sacked anyway.
As I said its a pee easy project to manage.
>> There doesn't have to be a Sun on Sunday, it's a commercial opportunity that News
>> International is hoping to exploit.
Exploitation. Yeahhhhhhhhhhh. Sums it up nicely.
* they may even have gained a little humility and honesty while there. may last for the first week of publication.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 20 Feb 12 at 08:58
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...but there is no alternate contracts...
The regional press centres print lots of other things as well as newspapers.
...As I said its a pee easy project to manage...
You would know of course, having opened lots of national newspapers in your time.
Like any project, it's not so hard if you know what you are doing.
Few organisations have such expertise - you don't find national newspaper publishers on every street corner.
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>> You would know of course, having opened lots of national newspapers in your time.
As a trained experienced project manager, yes I would know. As projects go, reopening a recently closed newspaper with a new title by the existing in situ resourced functioning organisation is an easy one.
>> Like any project, it's not so hard if you know what you are doing.
>> Few organisations have such expertise - you don't find national newspaper publishers on every street
>> corner.
Exactly - now you have it. They don't even need to secure the expertise or resources, they have it all to hand,
See? easy project. The only reason the Sensational Soar-away Sunday Sun didn't appear the week after the death of the NotW, was political and strategic.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 20 Feb 12 at 09:15
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>You would know of course, having opened lots of national newspapers in your time.
Easy peasy!
I opened one on Saturday and another yesterday ;-)
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I hope you did a risk assessment.
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>> At least the public sector is not full of reprehensible sleaze bags who belittle people,
>> break the law, tell lies and are completely without morals. Hardly something to look up
>> to.
Sounds like the highest level of public servant to me..
Better known as a Member of Parliament.
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Brian Cox was on TV last night explaining how a sun dies. Apparently in its death throes it expand to many times its former size and becomes a red giant. It expands so fast it cannot hold together and the whole thing collapses in on itself and it dies.
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Only a few billion years to wait :)
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Back from the dead? - rtj70
