.......... as a student apprentice in a diesel engine manufacturing factory, discipline was strict.
At the start of each shift (i.e. morning and afternoon) we had to clock in. This was done by inserting our clock card into the clock and pressing down on a brass lever. This printed the time onto the clock card. If we were more than 3 minutes late we were quartered, i.e. we lost a quarter of an hour’s pay. If we were more than 18 minutes late we lost half an hour’s pay and so on.
In addition to foremen and superintendents etc., all gangs (i.e. groups of workers) had a ganger (a chargehand in modern parlance) who further enforced discipline.
Tea breaks, lunch breaks and going home were all governed by a 3-minute bell. We weren’t allowed to leave our workbenches and wash our hands until the 3-minute bell had sounded. Hand washing was carried out in circular troughs in full view of the supervision. We weren’t allowed to leave the factory premises until the factory gates were opened by the gateman at exactly the finishing time.
The toilets had an attendant who issued you with 4 (yes, 4!) sheets of toilet paper, which in those days was thin, hard and shiny on one side. The brand name San Izal tinyurl.com/89frgr6 springs to mind. The bottom of the toilet door was about 12” (30 cm) from the ground, and the top of the door was about 48” (120 cm) from the ground so the attendant could see if you were doing other than was allowed. I can well imagine that the attendant ensured that we only spent a certain maximum amount of time in the toilet.
As time goes by I may remember other things which were vastly different in those days than they are today.
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Most of us of a certain age were familiar with clocking on and off, fifteen minutes pay docked if you were a minute late and no sick pay. No holiday on New Years day so Christmas was only a bare two days.
The forman at my first job was addressed as Mr Kilpatrick by everyone, including senior management and you wouldn't dare call anyone in a suit by their first name, a habit that persists to this day as I automatically address people as Mr or Mrs unless i have been introduced on christian name terms.
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It wasn't until 1973 that I left the dreaded clocking on machine behind.
One place I worked at was exactly the same as snails place with the exception of the handing out four sheets of izal bog paper, at least in the place i was on the cardboard packet of izal was nailed to the wall.
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>> It wasn't until 1973 that I left the dreaded clocking on machine behind
Aug 2011 for me :)
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Hope you're not harking back to the bad old days L'Escargot?
In Germany it is still the practice to refer to colleagues by their title and surname.
The last time clock that I used was in 1990 but my current employer uses them for Flexitime - but I am not in the scheme.
I also remember the two tier canteens where management had a posh one and everyone else had a cheap and cheerful one.
I still see plenty of executive loos.
Last edited by: zippy on Sun 29 Jan 12 at 10:45
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>> Hope you're not harking back to the bad old days L'Escargot?
You may think of them as bad, but they taught us the value of discipline and good behaviour.
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Rubbish it was a recipe for mindless subservience, poor management worker relationships, and led to the downfall of British Industry.
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>>>You may think of them as bad, but they taught us the value of discipline and good behaviour.
I don't think that I have lost respect for my boss by calling him by his Christian name.
But the bad old days that I was referring to was re the handing out of 4 sheets of loo paper.
I would consider that to be humiliating and I bet that "management" didn't have the same issues to contend with?
Last edited by: zippy on Sun 29 Jan 12 at 11:10
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I remember we had two clocking machines, one was accurate and one worked on some weird timing, so when you clocked in at half past, it stamped you at quarter to.
This worked well because you clocked in on the accurate one, then in the afternoon, clock out on the other and you gained 15 mins a day, more if you clocked out half hour late.
This went on for 3 years before my boss caught onto it, although what could he say, it wasnt any fiddle on our part. One month I doubled my overtime. Naughty :-)
When I come to think of it £15k a year back in 2000 was a darned good wage just cleaning cars. Unfortunately the industry was changing and we in-house guys got replaced by cheaper contractors.
Discipline wasnt really an issue, if you cocked up you got yelled at, then it was done, hurt feelings werent an option. I once gave my boss a roasting which he took very constructively, he was used to uneducated men so I was a bit of a new challenge for him, I always gave him a hard time. I once spent an hour counting trees because he sarcastically told me to and the look on his face when I reported to him how many, infront of his boss - big boss asked why did I do that, I said because he told me to. Priceless.
Humour was, as anyone who has worked in a garage enviroment will know, umm, hard - give as good as you get and you get along fine. I enjoyed it in the main, it was good money, easy work.
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My first job, was actually in the forces!
£17 per month salary and at least a tenner a month in mess bills!
Still in those days it was all found, so I had a magnificent £7 for going ashore. A tiddy-oggy and a pint of rough cider was, of course only a few (old) pence!
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>> Humour was, as anyone who has worked in a garage enviroment will know, umm, hard
>> - give as good as you get and you get along fine.
Days long gone I'm afraid FoR.
Now, we have to be VERY careful what we say, in case the other party takes offence.
Even the old motortrade habit of calling each other by nicknames has all but died out.
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>>Now, we have to be VERY careful what we say, in case the other party takes offence.
Even the old motortrade habit of calling each other by nicknames has all but died out.<<
Oh god, does that make me a relic of a byegone age - at 32!
The only time we ever got in trouble was for ribbing a teenager who did very little at all - he came in with his mommy the solicitor for goodness sake - can you imagine how well that went down :-) My boss said ease up on him so I did.
It resulted in almost nobody in the company talking to him and he eventually cried his way out the door cos the boys wouldnt play nice. I suppose you couldnt do that these days.
You have my sympathy.
No nicknames? How dull. We had them for all the salesmen, often cruel and rude but fitting and mine was Bing ( Bing Crosby - I wore a sunhat in the summer just to be weird, I think they thought I was having a breakdown ). If someone called you by your actual name, it usually meant you were in trouble. Infact, some of the guys there, I couldnt tell you their real names.
Old fashioned sort of respect for the women on site though, not that they werent game themselves, no sensitive types, just hardened motor trade girls, the best kind :-)
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In the late 70s I worked for a very large FTSE 100 company that had a Senior dining room with silver service, middle management with good food and free alcoholic drinks and the workforce took an hour off at their work benches with a box of sarnies and the Sun. North West in Lancashire if anyone needs a clue!
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When I first started work I earned an eighth of what I do now.
Why don't I take home eight times more or feel 8 times richer!?
;-)
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I still remember my first year as a wage earner. I was an apprentice engineer and cycled home every Friday with £5 9s 4d in my pocket out of my six quid pay. Ten bob to mum and the rest was all mine!
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When I really first started work I did dish washing Lyons Corner House Leicester Square, remember them? Then I worked in Selfridges as a trainee buyer I don't remember what my pay was but several people commuted daily from Brighton so it must have been enough to justify the journey.
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I work in an office and clock in and out. Its a condition of my flexi time so it suits me.
Technology has moved on though - I have a bar-code on the back of my security pass which is swiped and I can then check my hours on line whenever I like.
I am not a number......oh yes I am
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I have never worked set hours or had to. Mind you, I've never worked less than 60 hours a week or managed to take all my holidays either. Doing something wrong obviously !
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Articled accountant in the City. No one bothered much about time-keeping, young gentlemen didn't need to. It was standard practice to have long boozy lunch hours, and spend the mornings using the clent's phone to fix lunch engagements or private business.
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Perkins in Peterborough lesc? I remember "Medicated with Izal Germicide"!!!!
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>> Perkins in Peterborough lesc?
No, although when I got dissatisfied with my first employer I applied to Perkins and they did offer me a job. However almost simultaneously I was offered a job in the automotive industry which I took in preference to the Perkins offer.
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I left clocking on behind in 1972.
But it kind of crept up on me again about 3 years ago: by way of entry to site and buildings, and exit from site using a card.
I'm told the time information relating to my comings and goings isn't used to check what I claim... but what do I know?
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I got a 'severe talking to' because the site of the new premises was being used as a temporary parking place. The entrance was at the far end and I used to park my A35 close to the works entrance, step onto the bumper, bonnet, roof and vault over the surrounding fence. It saved time in the mornings!
The guy that complained was near the entrance when I went out one evening, right next to a puddle...................
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Something else I've remembered . We had to buy our own barrier cream and hand cleaner jelly. The barrier cream was in proprietary packaging, but our hand cleaner jelly tin was refilled from a bulk container ~ both at the stores.
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In a way i suppose i've always clocked on, time has always been regulated in trucks in my years.
First it was log books, then tachographs, now digi cards.
Most drivers have to self certify times for the company (though the digi download would do that automatically) as we have to keep strictly to hours regulations.
Where i now work is very old school, there is considerable mutual respect between depts and we do work together to service the customer at all costs and make the job efficient, but lots of good natured humour and non PC teasing goes on (with few exceptions for the miserable) which is great and good for overall morale and camaraderie IMO, truck drivers have always taken the mickey out of themselves and each other, long may that continue.
Most drivers have good antenna for detecting bullying, and can be very protective of those who are softer natured if they spot someone being so treated, the bully often becoming the target for not so funny teasing.
Can't abide PC miserable places, spend too many hours at work to be unhappy there.
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Yeah, respect has gone in the workplace. Cabin crew brought me a cup of coffee today with "BRACE, BRACE" written under my name on the cup. Don't know what they're trying to imply about my landings.
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Stared in 1978 in a provincial County Court before moving to management and policy in London and in various departments. The attendance book, ruled off in red at 09:00, was just gone but still in recent memory. Five years later it, or Hengstler clock machines in bigger offices, was back in support of flexitime.
The Chief Clerk was Mr Smith (though it was rumoured some called him Bill outside the office). Solicitors, or at least the partners, were 'Misters' too. All the partners were men though women were seen as employed solicitors or articled clerks. The judiciary were 'Your Honour' in court and 'sir' when in chambers or on the phone. If tea in chambers was offered (pot and china cups) then you'd made your mark.
Men over 50, and many of that age remained clerks, were likely to have seen service in the war, affecting both their attitude and behaviour. Some acted as though they were still in the battalion. Others, with hindsight, had what we'd now call PTSD - drink, shakes and that sort of thing.
But there was also much more tolerance, particularly in bigger offices, of eccentricity. Most offices also had one or two people, usually in back rooms as paper keepers or messengers who were frankly in supported employment. Is the world really a better place now 'Performance Management' would someone like that off in three months?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 30 Jan 12 at 14:22
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Respect has gone in our work place one of the lads told out manager to f.............off but he deserved it.
Management are rubbish just glorified fitters in suits.
Years back thats 25 i didn't see much differance.
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Speaking as a manager Bigtee, if anyone dared to speak to me in such a way they would be out the door PFQ , that means pretty ******* quick, subject to the usual verbal and written warnings .
If they had done that to me when I started work ( on building sites 40 + ) years ago before the PC rubbish we put up with these days they would have been pulling my boot out of their fundament as well...
Those who criticise management ought to try it sometime.....it is not easy taking responsibility but it is very easy to criticise...
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>> Those who criticise management ought to try it sometime.....it is not easy taking responsibility but it is very easy to criticise...
That's certainly true helico. But some people are more diplomatic than others. They make instructions sound like courteous but firm requests. Others are just inherently ill-mannered and offensive. They make small pieces of technical advice sound like offensive insults. I know because in a varied life I've worked under both sorts and been both sorts myself.
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r fundament as well...
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>> Those who criticise management ought to try it sometime.....it is not easy taking responsibility but
>> it is very easy to criticise...
managers = workers promoted to their level of incompetence.
My old company was pursuing a "High Performance Workforce" culture. Essentially ranking everyone and then getting rid of the bottom 20%
You have a problem after 4 years or so. 50% of your experience and knowledge gone or outsourced to "dave" in Bangalore
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"My old company was pursuing a "High Performance Workforce" culture. Essentially ranking everyone and then getting rid of the bottom 20%
You have a problem after 4 years or so. 50% of your experience and knowledge gone or outsourced to "dave" in Bangalore"
I worked in a company that did that. The problem was that the "bottom 20%" tended to be the quieter self effacing sort of people were not constantly blowing their own trumpet or shouting the odds. It was only when the disappeared that their true worth was perceived. Some were expensivley re-recruited
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>>"My old company was pursuing a "High Performance Workforce" culture. Essentially ranking everyone and then getting rid of the bottom 20%
My old company did the opposite. It only allowed those with a good annual appraisement to take redundancy. The theory being they'd stand a better chance of obtaining outside employment.
It's a miracle the 'phones still work.
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>> My old company did the opposite. It only allowed those with a good annual appraisement
>> to take redundancy. The theory being they'd stand a better chance of obtaining outside employment.
They did that before the High Performance Workforce plan.
>> It's a miracle the 'phones still work.
>>
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>> Essentially ranking everyone and then getting rid of the bottom 20%
Parking warden management. I bet everyone loved it Zeddo. I bet they were happy in their work.
In my corporate days back in the sixties the culture differed from company to company. Some outfits were renowned for that macho devil-take-the-hindmost stuff. We got a manager in my department who had come from one of them. He was a perfectly nice guy, none too bright, who adapted quickly to the very different corporate culture in the tobacco company I worked for.
But there were indeed, among the wall-to-wall array of onanists, a few macho prats of backstabbing onanists.
People like to believe and put about that the business environment is super-competitive. It isn't really. A lot of businesses are just established trading concerns that would make a profit if they were run by catatonic six-year-olds. Indeed they often seem to be.
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>My old company was pursuing a "High Performance Workforce" culture.
Yup, just had the PBC reviews a couple of weeks ago.
I'll never forget the first review I had after coming back from the US. I'd had a blinder of a year and my manager agreed during the review that I'd over-achieved by a long way in every area.
"Well done Kevin, cracking year, I've given you a PBC2+ rating."
"Eh? WTF do I have to do to get a PBC1?"
"You can't have a PBC1. I've never had one!"
Last edited by: Kevin on Mon 30 Jan 12 at 19:17
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>> "Eh? WTF do I have to do to get a PBC1?"
>>
>> "You can't have a PBC1. I've never had one!"
I had a 1 rating once in 36 years
When I was leaving the boss gave me a 3. Sorry about that he said, I have to give x% of threes to my unit, so rather than lump it on some poor sod who is staying, it wouldn't matter if I gave it to you.
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...They did that before the High Performance Workforce plan.
Ah yes, 1992 and the Career Transition Plan: company that has never in its history made anyone redundant hits the skids and panics. Lavish terms are offered and accepted by people confident in their own employability. Company realizes it's lost the wrong people and hires half of them back on expensive freelance terms. Not a happy time to live through.
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I always admire the British pilots you know how to fly a plane.>:)
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My first job, in 1957, was in a television factory. I spent some time on a coil winding line, and once, about 2 mins before the bell went for the end of the lunch break I started to work. The (lady) chargehand told me in no-uncertain-terms never to start before the bell. To this day I can't understand why, particularly as on another ocassion I had spent the whole shift working as hard as a 16 year old can and she came along, looked at the pile of coils I had produced, shook her head and said it wasn't very many.
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>> To this day I can't understand why
These days I'd say it was down to an insurance issue, or availability of on-shift First Aiders... But they didn't do things like that in 1957 did they?
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When I first started work ........ - Robin O'Reliant
