www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-16607875
Is it just me? What is a fascinator? I've never heard of it before in this context.
I also discovered the use of the word "graft" at the BBC to mean bribes, which was new to me. I emailed them about it and they were adamant it was a perfectly good word that meant what they said. Again, new to me.
What words have you discovered have changed their meaning unexpectedly?
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Its a type of decorative headwear thats not a hat - not sure why they are called that, because the ones i`ve seen dont fascinate me!
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Graft meaning bribery is the old meaning, it's in the OED, profiting by corruption. Graft meaning honest hard work is the newcomer.
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"Grafting" is criminal slang for burgling.
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>>"Grafting" is criminal slang for burgling.<<
up here, as stated, Grafting means hard work, the "slang" for a thief/burger is Grifter, hence to go grifting is to go thievin.
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I recall 'graft and corruption' from news reports of the Poulson affair - best part of 40yrs ago.
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The first word that i can think of that has changed its meaning is "Gay" - When i was a nipper it meant happy and carefree! How or why it got turned to mean what it does now i don`t know, I cant see the connection, unless laterally thinking it derived from the "carefree" into "gay-abandon" then shortened to just "Gay"?
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>> The first word that I can think of that has changed its meaning is "Gay"
>>
Gay does not have quite such innocent origins as you might think. When gentlemen in London had a "gay old time" in the 1890s it meant they were enjoying themselves in variety halls and other establishments, not playing charades at vicarage tea parties.
Even in its innocuous heyday there was always a risk of someone sniggering at an imagined sexual connotation. It was always better left to the innocent talking to other innocents.
A common feature of lots of "new" meanings is that they are not really new at all, just rediscovered by a new generation.
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>> Graft meaning bribery is the old meaning, it's in the OED, profiting by corruption. Graft
>> meaning honest hard work is the newcomer.
>>
Read all about it here. tinyurl.com/85ezhyl
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Wife's pal calls them Fornicaters.....
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Been around for a long time - I have one my mother wore in the sixties. Hers is made of veiling netting with a few velvet flower shapes sewn on and could be worn solo to a less formal event or as a half veil [down over eyes rather than full face] with a black hat,
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Propaganda now means lies to most people, but originally it meant simply information.
I read somewhere the change happened during the Second World War - Nazi propaganda.
Wiki - which must be right - has this:
"While the term propaganda has acquired a strongly negative connotation by association with its most manipulative and jingoistic examples, propaganda in its original sense was neutral, and could refer to uses that were generally benign or innocuous, such as public health recommendations, signs encouraging citizens to participate in a census or election, or messages encouraging people to report crimes to the police, among others."
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"Reiterate" is now used by most people to mean "repeat". My (admittedly old) dictionary defines "iterate" as meaning "repeat" and "reiterate" as meaning "repeat over and over again". In my opinion my dictionary's definitions are perfectly logical, because putting "re" in front of a word generally increases the number of times the action is taken. Fuel and refuel, start and restart, open and reopen, polish and repolish etc.
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Greeting a female acquaintance and telling her that she looks 'Fit' (as in fit and well) is best avoided these days unless you want a slap.
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>> 'Fit' (as in fit and well) is best avoided these days unless you want a slap.
OW! What was that for? I said you were FAT! I can't help my iccent, I was raised on the wrong side of the tricks in Joburg...
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Ah yes AC - Jo'burg where a grudge is where you park your car.......
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I have an unfortunate tendency, when anybody says they'd like to reiterate something, to say "that'll be three times you've said it then". Collapse of stout party.
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Thank you, Manatee, for the "stout party" line. It lead me to an interesting historical meander over the phrase, to be found here:
www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-col5.htm
It's not from Punch at all, apparently. There's a thing. And I must remember to start a conversation with "I was engaging in cruciverbals the other day..."
Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 18 Jan 12 at 14:08
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Perhaps influenced by " The Stout Gentleman", a humorous short story by Washington Irving
(1783-1859)
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To iterate or take an iterative approach is used in my place of work to describe a drafting task based on successively improved versions.
Don’t recall it previously and it was a particular favourite of our former Chairman.
More likley to adopt his usage than challenge it!!
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Educate.
Old meaning - to teach or to have learning/knowledge, imparted.
New meaning. To turn out illiterates and innumerates.
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It's a type of decorative headwear that's not a hat - not sure why they are called that, because the ones I've seen don't fascinate me!
If your clothes have to be literal I'll stand clear when you put on your windbreaker.
}:---)
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Slight thread drift here, but am I the only one hearing the word Absolutely far more frequently this past year or so than previously?
Don't say it...
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Announcer at Morrison's used to shout about ' Buy one, get another absolutely free ! '
I don't think there can be any degree of ' freeness ' It's free...or it's not !
Just another irritation in my pedantic existence !...Like fewer/less and apostrophes.
Was in Halford's yesterday for a new tyre. I noticed the 'H' was lower case and no apostrophe....grrrr.
Ted
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>> Just another irritation in my pedantic existence !...Like fewer/less and apostrophes.
>> Was in Halford's yesterday for a new tyre. I noticed the 'H' was lower case
>> and no apostrophe....grrrr.
>>
>> Ted
>>
Isn't the name of the company Halfords, not Halford? tinyurl.com/3xsqw8
:-D
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>>
>> Announcer at Morrison's used to shout about ' Buy one, get another absolutely free !
>> '
>> I don't think there can be any degree of ' freeness ' It's free...or it's
>> not !
'Free', when it isn't, is a special hate of mine.
When my party get into power we are going to ban the use of the word 'free', unless it means given away without charge or any conditions attached.
Chief executives of companies that 'give away' 'free phones' provided you pay them £30 per month should be strung up from the nearest lamppost.
I detest the misappropriate use of the word 'free' with a passion.
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>>
>> I detest the misappropriate use of the word 'free' with a passion.
Me too: I also detest, with an equal passion, the phrase "for free" as in " buy this XXXX and get another for free". The "for" is totally redundant.
Another pet hate (amongst many!) is the use of the marketing phrase "up to half price sale/discounts".
This really means that the reduction starts at nothing and may possibly approach half the original price - which itself was probably ramped up for a few weeks prior to the so-called sale.
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Like Roger I find the for in for free grates.
Another is misues and/or downright ignorance of percentages, particulalry the comparison between them. A beer that's 6% abv is twice the alcoholic strength of one at 3% not 3% more.
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>> is twice the alcoholic strength.
Or 'two times' as some would say.
...Not me, though.
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>> A beer that's 6% abv is twice the alcoholic strength of one at 3% not 3% more.
If it was a political party's popularity then the BBC would say '3 percentage points'.
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>> When my party get into power we are going to ban the use of the
>> word 'free', unless it means given away without charge or any conditions attached.
>>
Crap Duncy baby. One DOES NOT get in to power. One get's in to OFFICE. (:0:)
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A 1978 dictionary says
A fascinator is is a woman's light scarf, knitted or crocheted: an old- fashioned term .
It looks like the word itself has been reinvented or dragged back from the dead.
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A fascinator is a silly, pretty little hattish thing on a woman's head.
Large or themed 'hattish things' can be extraordinary repellent, but very small ones that don't make any sort of statement are quite all right.
Anyway fascinator is a stupid word, just asking for it. I call them little hats.
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Don't remember hearing of fascinators prior to last April's royal wedding.
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Funny you say that. Mrs C tonight told me that a fascinator was involved in Kate Middleton's wedding, who I took to be some sort of supermodel but she archly told me was actually now married to one of Charles's children, I think, and in her words "...and will one day be your Queen", which amused me.
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Icon has acquired an extra meaning.
Originally, it simply means an image.
Taking boxing (on Five Live at the minute) as an example, the image of any lowly slugger is an icon of boxing.
But most people now apply the term only to someone who has excelled, such as Mohammed Ali.
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>> Originally, it simply means an image.
The word image seems to have taken on new meanings. tinyurl.com/8x6pfr3
At one time, news reporters used to talk about scenes but now they say images. And photographs have now become images.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 20 Jan 12 at 08:07
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One was worn by Camilla Parker-Bowles when she became your future Queen, Crankcase.
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>> Don't remember hearing of fascinators prior to last April's royal wedding.
>>
Apparently you're not the only one who hadn't heard of it. tinyurl.com/744mc4v
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I think black lacy hold-ups, on a good pair of legs, may be called "fascinators"!
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I think its about time for your pills Roger.......
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I am completely cool with the way words are used, or not used, or even misused, as long as the general intention is conveyed.
I am completely at a loss to understand how anyone can detest, with passion no less, the use or perceived misuse of words.
Am I unique? is the rest of humanity so sadly anally choked about language?
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>> Am I unique? is the rest of humanity so sadly anally choked about language?
>>
No, language evolves, stuff the pedants, as long as I am understood and can understand when communicating I am happy.
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>> >> Am I unique? is the rest of humanity so sadly anally choked about language?
>> >>
>>
>> No, language evolves, stuff the pedants, as long as I am understood and can understand
>> when communicating I am happy.
>>
That's the deal - language changes, you need to keep up, and half of what people deride as 'americanisms' are probably original english coming back round.
What grates is having to explain to somebody that when they think they are being explicit, because they know what they want to say, their combination of vocabulary combined with bad grammar requires elaboration.
But clarity does not always work - I've found that here in Wiga, 'You have a poor vocabulary and poorer grammar, please elucidate' gets you nothing more than a knuckle butty :-)
Last edited by: borasport on Fri 20 Jan 12 at 19:03
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Good joke in current private eye. Teacher to yobbish pupil:
'F***ing w****r is an Oxymoron, Smith! Have you learned nothing at all, boy?'
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>> I am completely cool with the way words are used, or not used, or even
>> misused, as long as the general intention is conveyed.
>>
>> I am completely at a loss to understand how anyone can detest, with passion no
>> less, the use or perceived misuse of words.
>>
>> Am I unique? is the rest of humanity so sadly anally choked about language?
>>
No your not, it's doesn't bother me either. As people know what someone else is meaning when they speak, I don't think it matters if the use of words change. I'm fairly sure it's nothing new they've always been changing.
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...No your not, it's doesn't bother me either...
Clearly, since the shortened form of "you are" is "you're" not "your".
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well done your medal is in the post
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>> well done your medal is in the post
Proper case, a comma and a full stop wouldn't come amiss either.
Can I have one too?
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>> Can I have one too?
three four five...
Can I have one, too?
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>> >> Can I have one too?
>>
>> three four five...
>>
>> Can I have one, too?
>>
No, the placement of the comma between "one" and "two" is clearly not required, gratuitous and grammatically suspect.
Never before I have a seen or more blatant, sickening and morally offensive case of smarmilly jumping on a bandwagon in a "me too, me too" manner.
Medal? All your awards, rewards, goods and chattels should be seized and you should be banished from the kingdom.
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>> Medal? All your awards, rewards, goods and chattels should be seized
Bog off! I'm proud of my high jump, long jump and slow bike race medals. They ain't going anywhere.
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'can i have one too?' yeah but it'll have to be a silver one the gold one has gone already
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 21 Jan 12 at 12:23
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>> I am completely at a loss to understand how anyone can detest, with passion>> no >> less, the use or perceived misuse of words.
>>
My post, was in fact, protesting about the use of the word 'free'. When the equipment is not free.
Am I unique?
I am much less bothered about 'for free'
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"Unique" is surely an absolute. (Only one of it/he/she/ exists in the world)
Here is another misuse of English which is, sadly, all too common.
Something, or someone, cannot be "almost unique" - the thing or person to which the description is applied is either unique or not unique.
{My old fashioned qualification was GCE "O" Level, Oxford & Cambridge Board, Circa 1952.}
Here's a link to pedant's corner!
www.apostrophe.org.uk/
Last edited by: Roger on Sat 21 Jan 12 at 13:26
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>> {My old fashioned qualification was GCE "O" Level, Oxford & Cambridge Board, Circa 1952.}
My how the world has moved on since then, its such a long time ago.
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>> "Unique" is surely an absolute.
Ubique is often applied to those selling cars with ' cherished numbers '
Well, I've got 6 vehicles with number plates and as far as I know, they are all unique. In the UK at least. Only one has any real value.
Trf
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"Unique" is surely an absolute."
No it isn't. If I had cat made out of marzipan it would be unique. If selfsame cat was also 15 feet tall I think I could safely call it very unique.
Alternatively you can argue that nothing in the universe is unique, nothing being exactly identical. The word unique is therefore uniquely meaningless
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 21 Jan 12 at 14:58
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>> "Unique" is surely an absolute."
>>
>> No it isn't. If I had cat made out of marzipan it would be unique.
>> If selfsame cat was also 15 feet tall I think I could safely call it
>> very unique.
>>
>> Alternatively you can argue that nothing in the universe is unique, nothing being exactly identical.
>> The word unique is therefore uniquely meaningless
I disagree!
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I disagree!
Well if you don't think a 15 foot tall marzipan cat is very unique you live in strange world Roger.
I guess I knew that though. ;-)
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>> Well if you don't think a 15 foot tall marzipan cat is very unique you
>> live in strange world Roger.
It's bog-standard Unique, CG. You are trying to wind Roger up, methinks.
:)
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>> Am I unique? is the rest of humanity so sadly anally choked about language?
Some usage/abusage grates. That's a wee bit more bothered than cool but some miles from 'anally choked'.
A few misues annoy because they confuse/blur meaning. Refute where they mean deny is the one that makes me shout - partly the result of one particular ex-colleague's persistent misuse in attendance notes.
Infer and imply rattle me a bit. Most of the rest as I said just grate.
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>> Am I unique? is the rest of humanity so sadly anally choked about language?
>>
No problem.
You can be concerned about the things that concern you and I will be concerned about the things that concern me.
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>> You can be concerned about the things that concern you and I will be concerned
>> about the things that concern me.
+1.
I sent somebody an email this morning that included the word "well". He read it as "we'll" - it still made sense, just the wrong sense.
He also thinks there are two aitches in H. I gave up on that one a while back, because he now seems to be in the majority :-(
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11642588
>> 'Haitch' or 'aitch'? How do you pronounce 'H'?
I don't understand why the article says "the gradual shift of garage to sound like garridge is less easy to explain." I wasn't aware that there was a shift to pronouncing it garridge ~ I've always pronounced it garridge.
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>> I don't understand why the article says "the gradual shift of garage to sound like
>> garridge is less easy to explain." I wasn't aware that there was a shift to
>> pronouncing it garridge ~ I've always pronounced it garridge.
Many of us do - including me on occasion - but it is still not strictly correct and I am always aware when I use "garridge" that it is not a proper pronunciation of the word.
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>> .... ~ I've always pronounced it garridge.
>> Many of us do - including me on occasion - but it is still not
>> strictly correct and I am always aware when I use "garridge" that it is not
>> a proper pronunciation of the word.
>>
It looks like I need some elocution lessons! tinyurl.com/6m25557
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>> It looks like I need some elocution lessons! tinyurl.com/6m25557
>>
SWMBO has a gold medal in elocution from LAMDA and is also qualified to teach it!
(She is also a fully qualified Home Economist, with a teaching stickyfoot and amongst others, has worked with the late Fanny Craddock ("A right cow", she says, but Johnny was nice!) in a cookery demonstration theatre.
Neither I, nor our daughter, have been able to mispronounce or mumble without dire retribution!
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>> I am completely cool with the way words are used, or not used, or even misused, as long as the general intention is conveyed.
So is anyone in their right mind Zero, in the course of normal communication. And it's also true that people with strong prejudices about the way words are used - and surely even you have a bit of a twitch sometimes when you hear a particularly gauche and meaningless cliché - aren't always careful users of words themselves.
I would remind you though that sometimes what has to be conveyed is not a 'general intention' but a highly specific and precise piece of reasoning or description. For those purposes there's nothing to beat a correct, fluid use of language. And I would add: if meaning doesn't matter, what are people blathering for in the first place?
'I was like, HELLO_O!'
What the ******ing ****ing **** does that mean for example?
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In this instance, my objection is to the use of the word 'free', when they ain't free.
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>> my objection is to the use of the word 'free', when they ain't free. >>
Then put your money where your mouth is; if you object that much, you DO have the option to choose a contract where you pay for the phone separately from the minutes/data/texts bundle.
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What the ******ing ****ing **** does that mean for example?
You are Vince and I claim my fiver.
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>> You are Vince and I claim my fiver.
>>
The correct saying is "You are Lobby Lud and I claim my five pounds."
P.S. I didn't know Lud's first name was Lobby! Incidentally, where is Lud?
Last edited by: L'escargot on Mon 23 Jan 12 at 13:59
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>> >> You are Vince and I claim my fiver.
>> >>
>>
>> The correct saying is "You are Lobby Lud and I claim my five pounds."
tinyurl.com/7at6k93
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>> P.S. I didn't know Lud's first name was Lobby! Incidentally, where is Lud?
>
I beleive he's a reformed character and known as Armel C.
bin in here in last 24hrs.
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>> >> P.S. I didn't know Lud's first name was Lobby! Incidentally, where is Lud?
>> >
>>
>> I beleive he's a reformed character and known as Armel C.
>>
>> bin in here in last 24hrs.
>>
Sorry Lobby Armel.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Mon 23 Jan 12 at 14:19
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>> Sorry Lobby Armel.
De nada Gastropod... this must be one of the most courtly sites on the internet.
Don't believe everything people say about me being a reformed character though. There is no point in reforming what is already perfect.
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>> >> Sorry Lobby Armel.
>>
>> De nada Gastropod... this must be one of the most courtly sites on the internet.
>>
>>
>> Don't believe everything people say about me being a reformed character though. There is no point in reforming what is already perfect.
>>
Hey - I'm the perfect one here!
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>> De nada Gastropod ....
Lo siento, no hablo Español.
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>but a highly specific and precise piece of reasoning or description.
Contracts and legal documents come immediately to mind. A long running court case I follow quite closely has been dogged by lawyers trying to change the meaning of words to suit their dodgy arguments.
And who can forget Bill Clinton?
"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."
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>> dogged by lawyers trying to change the meaning of words to suit their dodgy arguments.
Yeah, Legalese, a specialized tongue designed to be spoken forked, so to speak, by those spawn of Beelzebub.
But of course I didn't mean that, or dog Latin, or mumbo-jumbo, or anyone's private language, or general demotic chatter which is endlessly ambiguous although often colourful. I meant proper English to convey scientific information or reasoning, non-jargon pure academic English.
If you can hack it in that with a bit of demotic and general poetic fancy thrown in, you'll be a communicator if you can be bothered and have anything to communicate, my son.
I am toying with the idea of learning Volapük.
Only toying with it though.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 20 Jan 12 at 20:58
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No, no, no, no, no, Roger:)
Pat
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>> 'I was like, HELLO_O!'
>> What the ******ing ****ing **** does that mean for example?
I can't make my mind up. Is that an improvement on "I'm gob-smacked", which it seems to have replaced, or is it not?
No, I think I prefer Gob-smacked.
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It doesn't necessarily mean 'I was visibly surprised' though Clk Sec. It may actually recount a piece of rudeness by the speaker to a third party. The point is that it has no specific meaning. It's just an ill-mannered string of phonemes.
I particularly dislike the expression 'year on year', a politician's cliché because it has two distinct meanings. My lip curls whenever it slips smoothly from a politico's chops.
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>>
>> I particularly dislike the expression 'year on year', a politician's cliché because it has two
>> distinct meanings.
>>
Which are?
I get the one, comparing this year's results with last year's, but what is the other?
Not the same as "year after year", surely?
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Is it just me? What is a fascinator?
Just been banned!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-16607875
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I looked for porage, but it wasn't in. tinyurl.com/7alhwja
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I love it when a thread goes full circle.
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You are Hannibal Smith & I claim my $5 !
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I've been catching up on the Portillo programmes I've recorded this month.
When in a new area, he asks local historians and residents about the town or events of the past. When his question requires an affirmative answer, I've become mildly irritated by a large number of these interviewees who start off ' Absolutely ' Rather than a simple ' Yes '
'Were these docks biuilt for the export of coal ?' 'Absolutely, in 1895.......etc' .
I think the rest seem to substitute ' Indeed ' for ' Absolutely ' ! Pretentious ? Moi ?
Indeed, it absolutely annoys me....Grrrr.
Ted
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>> Slight thread drift here, but am I the only one hearing the word Absolutely far more >>frequently this past year or so than previously?
>> I've been catching up on the Portillo programmes I've recorded this month.
>> When in a new area, he asks local historians and residents about the town or
>> events of the past. When his question requires an affirmative answer, I've become mildly >>irritated
You've hit the nail on the head there. I very much enjoy the programme, but that much overused and unnecessary word is beginning to grate.
But perhaps I shouldn't complain. With Eggheads, followed by Great British Railway Journeys; at least that's one hour of watchable telly a night.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Wed 25 Jan 12 at 07:44
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Well, we had a little "poll" in the office the other day to identify phrases we all say, but don't realise. One person says "On the grounds that" ALL the time, one says " It depends" ALL the time and apparently I say "As you say" ALL the time. But none of us realised we were saying these things, or in fact that it gets a bit wearing for the others, so we've all agreed to swap phrases for a week. On the grounds that it will annoy others less.
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>>so we've all agreed to swap phrases for a week. On the grounds that it will annoy others less.
That might just work, at the end of the day, all things being equal.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Wed 25 Jan 12 at 08:34
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>> When in a new area, he asks local historians and residents about the town or events of the past. When his question requires an affirmative answer, I've become mildly irritated by a large number of these interviewees who start off ' Absolutely ' Rather than a simple ' Yes '
>>
Apropos....
It seems to be the way conversations are going with Lady Duncan of late.
"Should we blah blah?"
"Well, if we something, something, we will xyz"
"So, is that a yes or a no?"
Pah!
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>> I've been catching up on the Portillo programmes I've recorded this month.
>> Indeed, it absolutely annoys me....Grrrr.
Great programme, but I have to say that the thing that annoys me most is the phrase "my bradshaws guide" It gets said about 30 time in half an hour.
I want to hit him with the effin bradshaws guide, stuff it up his arris - sideways
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>> Great programme, but I have to say that the thing that annoys me most is
>> the phrase "my bradshaws guide" It gets said about 30 time in half an hour.
Good for the second hand bookshops, though.
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>> I want to hit him with the effin bradshaws guide, stuff it up his arris>> - sideways
>>
I think he might enjoy that.
No. I did not say anything.
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>> 'Were these docks biuilt for the export of coal ?' 'Absolutely, in 1895.......etc' .
>>
>> I think the rest seem to substitute ' Indeed ' for ' Absolutely ' !
>> Pretentious ? Moi ?
They probably said "Yes" in the rehearsal. Non-professional broadcasters don't like repeating themselves. You'll often notice them saying "...as I said before..."
If they were pros, Portillo wouldn't need to ask a leading question in the first place. He'd just ask them why the docks were built.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 25 Jan 12 at 10:46
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>> If they were pros, Portillo wouldn't need to ask a leading question in the first
>> place. He'd just ask them why the docks were built.
>>
That might mean that they then had more camera time than Portillo. Do you think he would like that?
I enjoy the programme, but I do have a hate/hate relationship with Portillo.
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>> I do have a hate/hate relationship with Portillo.
And he has a never heard of him/never heard of him relationship with you.
Must be a mixed blessing being on the telly. All those millions of people having relationships with you.
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Portillo has a face that just cries out for a good slapping!
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See what I mean? You get all these nutters who fancy physical contact with some part of your anatomy.
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New word for me today is 'Invacuation' - process where an external threat requires building to be locked down and staff moved to safe zones.
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During meetings at work there was a continuous stream of new meanings being used. The more frivolous of us used to have sheets of paper with a squared pattern drawn on them with the latest words/phrases in the boxes in a random pattern. When a word/phrase was used we ticked off the appropriate box. It was known as bull-dung bingo.
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New meanings to words or just my ignorance? - devonite
