I am quite proud of the fact I have trained our dog to stop at every kerb. If we are crossing a road it will stop and sit and await the signal to cross.
He will also do this if we are walking along a pavement and we come to a driveway that has a break in the pavement (kerbed). But won't do it if the driveway does not have a break ie, the pavement just slopes down.
However out a walk tonight where we went along a road with a sequence of driveways one after another, all kerbed.
It dawned on me that he would stop at every entrance to a driveway but on the opoosite side, where it was kerbed just the same, he doesn't stop. But he then goes on and stops at the next one.
So is he counting or does he realise what a driveway is? Or is this from knowing that when crossing the road, he stops at the first one but obviously doesn't stop at the other side?
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A grown dog has the mental and logical abilities of a two year old, its generally accepted that dogs can count up to about 5, there is much debate about if they can perform mathematical tasks or not.
It is likely however your dog is using a series of markers, scents, sounds and some visual clues.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 16 Jan 12 at 22:06
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Well done D, a pleasure to see a happy well behaved hound, SWM is gradually getting Stinky round to off lead total control and she doesn't seem to recognise driveways either, she the dog has come on in leaps and bounds over the 9 months or so she's been ours, well till a cat is spotted then all bets are off.
As we type the poor little blighter is feeling sorry for herself and in considerable discomfort, the VET removed her bits and pieces today, hopefully that should end the horrible phantom pregnancies she suffers.
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AND GB, what about the Dorg?? (0:-:0)
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what about the Dorg?? (0:-:0)
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:-)))
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They learn a lot from repitition, but obviously have a limited capacity for 'pure' memory. If everytime I throw a dummy for the dog, and then send him, he'll be ready to go every time. If I sent him for every other dummy, he will then expect to be sent for every other one. Some of the good gundogs will remember maybe 4 or 5 dummies and their locations, but generally 2 or 3 is the maximum. It seems that they struggle with long strings of events, but remember clearly single events. If they found a pheasant under a bush, then 2 or 3 days later they will head straight for that bush first, even though the bird and the scent have long gone.
Of course, they are very simple animals and just live life from one minute to the next, drawing from experience of what they did before and it's consequences, ie was it successful/pleasurable/painful etc.
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>> Of course, they are very simple animals and just live life from one minute to
>> the next, drawing from experience of what they did before and it's consequences, ie was
>> it successful/pleasurable/painful etc.
it depends a lot on the breed, and breeding - some are naturally quite bright able to learn new things quickly, I have even seen one dog being trained for Heelwork to Music, where it combined (previously learned) segments together on its own without prompting - and some are as dense as a tree stump.
Its very easy, if you are cunning, to teach a dog a lot of tricks, and by subtle commands make it look as if the dog is doing logical things.
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Milo our 12 (almost) year old R/Ridgeback can count to 2, as I feeds im once a day but divided into 2 portions due to the fact that he always has a little (very little) of what we're having when we've finished eating.
If I appen to forget to give him his dues - boy does he create!!
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thats not counting. Thats body clock driven single events.
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Dogs are more intelligent than most people give them credit for really, certainly not dumb animals from my experience.
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They certainly have natural guile and cunning and an ability to manipulate, even train unsuspecting owners for sure.
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>>natural guile and cunning and an ability to manipulate<<
Tell me about it!!
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>> A grown dog has the mental and logical abilities of a two year old,
>>
Younger than that, I'd say.
At two my children were having quite interesting and intelligent conversations. My eldest daughter even famously cracked quite a good joke:
If you eat too many pancakes, you get pank-ache.
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If a dog has 5 pups, and you take two away it will know its missing pups not how many, but knows its short on pups. Place one nearby and it will fetch pup, and then do a count and know its still missing pups, place last one nearby and it will fetch pup, do a count and be happy it has pups.
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I have friends who tell me that when they went out in the car, with their dog (A collie = quite intelligent) on the back seat it used to get excited when they got near home, presumably on the basis that it recognised houses and things in the local area? There again, maybe not!
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Mines a little dense, it always assumes sounds of handbrake = Home or exciting destination.
Not yet worked out that handbrake also equals traffic lights or traffic jams or hill starts or anything else. Its a good example of how dogs attach external stimuli to notable and worthwhile events, and completely forget the rest which is of no basic interest.
And there in a nutshell is your tool for training them.
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They are just extremely perceptive, way beyond what we can see or understand. And of course we can never fully understand their sense of smell and how they see the world through their noses, and can then combine this with other factors to get an idea of what is, or is about, to happen.
I have a spaniel that now stays in the house full time. When he lived outside he was completely oblivious to thunder and fireworks. Now he's inside he doesn't like them at all, and at the first distant rumble he starts pacing around. Has the fact that he now has a bed under the kitchen table altered his tolerance to bangs? I doubt it. More likely he's picked up on something from me that causes uncertainty - was that thunder/is it coming this way/oh god, not more fireworks etc. I've deliberately tried not to treat him any differently when he's like this, but again, maybe he picks up the fact that I am trying not to treat him differently, which just increases his uncertainty.
Sure, they can be extremely manipulative, and that is the reason for their success as a breed. With dogs, nothing breeds success like success.
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I've watched my peahen do that with chicks. She gets quite agitated if any are missing, but I think only if they are responding with cheeps. If one has died or been got by a rat etc she seems to recognise that and then writes it off immediately.
Animals often are very attentive caring parents, but utterly callous at the same time.
But then they are not humans, they merely happen to display some human characteristics, sometimes.
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>> I've watched my peahen do that with chicks. She gets quite agitated if any are
>> missing, but I think only if they are responding with cheeps.
Yea in most of the stupid animals, its up to the young to indicate they are in danger, no distress noise no problem in the entire brood. Dogs are one of the few types of animal that can carry out a spontaneous inventory.
And of course, we always look for something in animal behaviour and try and attach human qualities to it, mostly even when its completely inappropriate.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 17 Jan 12 at 09:26
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Dogs don't count. Felix domesticus does!
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I know when I'm off on a shoot, all the dogs 'know' what's happening. But they're not psychic. They remember me putting stuff in the car the night before, I'm letting them out early in the morning, I'm usually rushing, they can smell the clothes, they can smell the cartridges, they can smell the gun on my hands where I've taken it out of the safe, and they can probably even smell scent from the last place we shot at. All these things led to an enjoyable day out previously, so they connect all the dots - the sights, the sounds, and most importantly the smells, and come to the conclusion they're up for another good day. Upon putting them in the car and going shooting, all their assumptions have been confirmed and reinforced.T
The next time we are getting ready to go, they will use all these 'signs', and probably notice even more - some relevant, some not.
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Animals are a bit like Sherlock - they notice things that mere people don't , and have learned from experience what these usually mean.
Our cats recogise different footsteps on the stairs - some will feed them, some don't. They know the noise a cheese wrapper makes when taken out of the fridge, because they may get given a little piece.
There are considerable differences in intelligence, or cunning, between individuals.
If one of ours wanted the hot spot by the stove when another was sitting there, she would go to the usual spot where they get fed and start getting exited. This usually induced the other cat to leave the heat and go to the food spot. Then the clever cat would steal the hot spot.
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I'd say they know an awful lot from scent. Aren't they a hundred times more sensitive than human noses?
Our old springer would happily curl up in the car's passenger foot-well until we got near somewhere we'd been before, then her head would come up and her nose would be at the fascia vent.
My niece has a failed guide dog. It sits at a kerb and waits for one vehicle to pass, then wants to cross regardless of traffic. Would've been lethal!
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A Dogs hearing is very sharp I don't know about hundred times regarding smell.Could be.
I am always facinated how guide dogs behave and I believe they have guide dogs for deaf people.
Most guide dogs are Labradors must be there temperament.Police Dogs are usual German Shepherds.
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Alas Shepards are rapidly becoming a useless breed, very poor hips and rear structure, and starting to dhow a bit of a windy nervous temperament. So bad that Greater Manchester Police now breed their own (they are still nervous and wimpy and very unpredictable.)
Forces are moving to Belgian Shepards also know as Malinois. Fine brave loyal dog, very tenacious, very fit and muscular, and far more calm and decisive under pressure. Lot of good Dutch breeders of these dogs for sport.
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S'pose you could point me in the right direction as to a breeder of Maliois Z, I need a dog with gonads up here where we are "these days" and I see's that Malinois are a more compact breed of Shep than the GSD.
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can do dog, I will ask my Malinois spert this week. Its usually a case of someone who has a nice b itch, having a good german or dutch dog over to cover it, so its more a case of knowing what litters are due.
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>> having a good german or dutch dog over to cover it
shouldn't that be in the swear filter?
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I've owned Doberman, GSD and had Milo the R/R since a pup, but he's getting on now at 12 years - can still give a good bark though, when its required, but I wouldn't want another Ridgeback as they are a bit too aloof, even for me!
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Many years ago when i worked on the farm................ We (boss or I) took it in turns to milk, week about. Every day at quarter to five a.m or quarter to four p.m we used to call up the dog(Jess, border collie) and set off to fetch the cows. They had free riegn of about 60 acres of linked fields, at thier furthest they could be almost a mile away. One day, i couldn`t find Jess, so had to set off and get them myself, only to shortly after meet Jess fetching the cows on her own!
When the Boss was on milking duty, he had to call her up, and she`d go with him no problem, but on my weeks, come five a.m ot 4 pm, my cows were always at the collecting yard gate ready for me.
We watched her one afternoon when it was my week, and just before quarter to, she emerged from wherever she`d been, looked up at the outside clock, and the second that big-hand clicked onto the 9 off she shot!
Could never understand Why she never went for them on her own when it was the bosses week!
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I've questioned before the uncanny way the dog has with times
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You have a ridgeback Dog? They are Rhodesian arn't they.Dobermann are good guard dogs.
I like a Chow blue tong.It is the commitment having a dog again we are already stuck with two cats and the missus.>:) I should say I am.
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>>You have a ridgeback Dog? They are Rhodesian arn't they.Dobermann are good guard dogs<<
Yes, yes, and yes ... Dobermanns were originally bred solely for guard purposes.
I like cats as well - Leopard, Puma, Lynx, Cougar, Ocelot, Jaguar etc.,etc..
:)
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Bred by a postman Mister Doberman.Cats are nice in the pot with unions.(sorry Pat) >;)
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I didn't know the name Malinois.I do know this Belgian shephard as Mechelse Herdershond.
There always was De Hollandse herdershond.Duitse en Belgise herdershond.
The German Shepherd was always the best looking one.I have to look it op in one of my books.
Famous Dutch breeder and Judge was a mister Toepoel.I have had his book now for over 40 years.
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Looking at the pictures I'd see a Malinois and think German Sheppard/Alsatian. What are the key differences?
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I hope dogs can count, otherwise an insomniac one would never get to sleep.
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Malinois are a tad smaller than GSD, more 'compact', they are still Shepherds, but Belgian.
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Malinois v traditional German Shepherd
Malinois has:
Much shorter thicker hair, nearly always a rust colours with brindle markings. very much higher rear haunches, with a very straight back, no downward slope to the rear like GSD, It has a very pronounced square forward shoulders stance, much like a bulldog. Pointier snout, but a bit shorter, forward facing ears. Stronger, fitter and very much faster than a GSD. B itches can be small, dogs can be very big, I know one large fella who's shoulders come up to my hips.
Temperament wise, much calmer, more confident, more decisive than a GSD, and much much more forceful. The dogs are not really for a home with kids, the bitches are ok.
They are in fact GSD's from 120 years ago, before breeders started to try and shape GSDs for looks, Malinois breeders bred for working and sports.
I help train Malinois and GSD for a dog sport called Shutzhund.
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>> Forces are moving to Belgian Shepards also know as Malinois. Fine brave loyal dog, very
>> tenacious, very fit and muscular, and far more calm and decisive under pressure. Lot of
>> good Dutch breeders of these dogs for sport.
mod plod went over to belgian shepards over 10 years ago.
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Mrs RP says that NWP is moving back towards Alsatians.
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Can dogs count? - Zero
