In response to interest elsewhere.
Do you?
And if so, how do you do it?
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I get up when I want (more or less - SWMBO has her input!) and go to bed when I'm tired!
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We are usually early to bed, early to rise types. I was up before eight this morning to tuck into a waiting breakfast.
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>>We are usually early to bed, early to rise types. I was up before eight this morning to tuck into a waiting breakfast<<
+1 but @ 6am.
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Based on my experience.
I think there is too much said about "you need x hours every night" If you don't fall asleep you then start to worry and get anxious about not getting your x hours a night, and it becomes self fulfilled - you don't.
Add to that the perceived norms, or to fit in with a partner, that 11:00pm is bed time and 07:30 is wake time it all becomes a minefield of sleepless worry.
My view, based on me, is that you need xx hours sleep a week, not a regimented xx a day. For me its about 45 hours a week. So if at 11:00pm I am not tired I wont go to bed till I feel tired, knowing the sleep will be made up the next night, or an hours nap during the following day/evening if needed. If I go to bed at 11:00 and by 11:30 I am not asleep, I will get up, and go back when I am tired.
My only sleep rule is up and out of bed by 07:30 week days and 08:30 weekends, its far too easy to fall into sleep all day and be awake all night, and that is far too antisocial, and I refuse to waste the daylight hours, you never get them back again.
Its a system that I developed when as an engineer on shift and 24 hour call out and has seen me well since.
When you think about it as Hunter Gatherer, we would have developed to be awake for 18 hours a day during summer, and virtually hibernate in winter asleep for 18 hours a day,.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 3 Jan 12 at 10:08
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Good nights sleep comes after an honest days work when hopefully you've done some good, some decent food and bit of relaxation, then cuddling up with your lovely partner in bed in the warm.
Sometims just cudding up can be enough and you drift off, if you cuddle up and it leads to natural loving then thats like an off switch...zonk, asleep.
If you've had a disagreement or are anguished about something, try to resolve it before trying to sleep, worry and anger are the worse emotions for keeping you awake IMO.
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....actually I don't really like sleeping "cuddled up" - it makes me too warm and inhibits my movements. SWMBO is tactile & I am not. I like plenty of personal space and she does not. I don't like "people", she does.
In fact it's a bit of a miracle that we have been married (happily) since 1969!
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>> I don't like "people"
Noooooo! I am shocked and surprised by that revelation.
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>>
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>> >> I don't like "people"
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>> Noooooo! I am shocked and surprised by that revelation.
>>
Oh no, you're not!!!!
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Thanks Zero - that is very useful input. I have a misguided expectation that I "should get" about 7 hours sleep a night. As I don't have to fit my sleep in with anyone else, most of the time, I tend to go to bed about 10.30 pm, read until 11 and sleep until about 6.30. Problem is that when/if I wake up I have trouble getting back to sleep. My tactics, such as they are, involve a a very cold bedroom, a 3.5 TOG mattress topper and a 10.5 tog goose down duvet and a goose down pillow.
No laughter please! I have just bought one these www.ionic-balance.com , and there may be NO connection at all, but the quality of my sleep has improved enormously, not the duration. I am not much of a one for crystals, magnets etc but apparently vets use magnets on animals, who have no expectation that they will be effective, but they appear to be. For what the band cost and with a money back guarantee I thought it was worth a try and am pleased with the results so far.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 3 Jan 12 at 11:55
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If I suffer from insomnia, get up, watch bad tV for approx 1 hour, get cold, make a cup of tea, drink it and retire to bed.
The rewarming effect in bed makes you fall asleep within 10 minutes..
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It's no secret that I am a dreadful sleeper, if I ever drop off at all. The slightest noise will wake me, so I have to have my own space. Holiday homes and hotels are a nightmare unless you buy an extra room.
When I do sleep I wake up every hour or so with yet one more vivid nightmare. Last night's joys, which are not atypical, included a revolting plane crash, a man cutting my tongue in half lengthways (sorry) and of course, suddenly being the trenches in the first war, with all that entailed for those about me.
It's like that most nights and always has been, whatever I try. Sigh.
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A specific effect of my Ionic Band (see earlier post) which I didn't mention is that it improved my dreams, made them more like every day life. It doesn't sound as thought trying one could make your sleep/dreams worse! No commercial connection BTW - it has worked for me.
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I looked at the Ionic Band website and my natural scepticism about what it claims would override any effect it might have had I fear. But thanks anyway Meldrew.
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>> I looked at the Ionic Band website and my natural scepticism about what it claims
>> would override any effect it might have had I fear.
'Notice a difference in 2 weeks or your money back'?
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Site says "With a 14 Day Money Back Satisfaction Guarantee, Free Shipping and Same Day processing of orders - what are you waiting for?" No reason needed - just send it back
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>> "With a 14 Day Money Back Satisfaction Guarantee, Free Shipping and Same Day processing of orders - what are you waiting for?" No reason needed - just send it back >>
Good that you have faith in that guarantee and won't have to test it. Warning - Don't read the next bit, as it could destroy your faith in the miracle pseudoscience properties of such bands:
www.asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adjudications/2011/10/Ionic-Balance/SHP_ADJ_162457.aspx
www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/pseudoscience-sells/
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12135402
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I used to be a terrible insomniac until I realised that I was trying to get too much sleep. Now as mentioned on another thread I limit my time in bed to 6 hours a night. Resultantly I sleep like a log now. My work commitments are such that I might easily have a different waking time on a daily basis but normally on weekdays I go to bed at midnight and get up at six. At weekends it's more like 01.00 until 07.00. In any event I go to bed 6 hours before I need to get up so if I have a 04.00 alarm I'll go to bed at 10.00.
In addition, I find some light excercise late in the evening helps too. I try when possible to go for a swim around 9.30 - 10.00 at night for half an hour or so. The very best night's sleep comes after that. Failing that I'll take the pooch for a half hour walk before bed. Clears the head of the day's rubbish and relaxes the mind.
Another trick I've found useful is not to eat later than 8.00 pm and preferably earlier than 7.00pm if possible to give time to digest food before attempting sleep.
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I might try some of that Humph. I'm in bed and not asleep for very much longer than the sorts of hours you are talking about.
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Well, it has other benefits for me. Most days I don't get a lunch break as such, just grab something on the go. Resultantly in order to give myself some free time and switch off work mode for a while I need to make space in my day early and late. I hate having to rush in a morning and try to give myself at least an hour between waking and having to leave the house or start work.
As an aside I'm in constant contact with offices in China, Italy and New York in addition to UK businesses of course so I could work more or less round the clock and at weekends. I've found that I have to discipline myself to switch off at given times or I'd be thinking / worrying about work 24/7.
Little mini-breaks on sites like this help ! Stops the brain exploding.
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The secret is to snuggle down while having good thoughts about the following day. Things you want to do, projects on the go, problems to solve, etc. Then just close your eyes, and zz.........
I can be asleep the moment my head touches the pillow, and before my wife has finished saying good night.
There's no point in worrying over things your brain could be getting on with on its own. Just give it the task, and wake up with the problem solved.
Bu everyone suffers from insomnia from time to time. It's nothing to lie awake worrying over.
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Like Humph I too can suffer from too much sleep.
If I am unwell and go to bed early then I know I will have problems getting to sleep the following night.
I have never needed the " normal" amount of sleep
I generally go to bed never earlier than midnight and more often 01:00 - 02:00.
Alarm goes off a 06:25 so I can prepare SWMOs pot of tea.
I go to bed to kip so empty the tank, no hot drink or tipple, or read a few pages of a book or listen to the radio prior to crashing out
The only thing that stops me is that I cannot sleep with my feet being cold.
I guess I am lucky not needing much sleep. When my daughter was very young I used to read to her for an hour or so most nights in the middle of the night. Most friends said that would "destroy" them. A few weeks back I still managed a 24 hours + stint without any sleep.
No other special tricks from my view.
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I think the trick is to attempt to establish how much sleep makes you feel rested and well and try not to exceed or reduce that. Guess it differs from person to person. What's the right amount for one may be wrong for another.
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In my work as a complementary therapist at a local hospice I run an outpatients' clinic where I treat people suffering from life-threatening conditions, the carers for such people and the recently bereaved.
A common thread running through such cases is the need to reduce tension, to soothe, calm and relax. Often poor sleeping patterns are part of the problem. (By "poor sleeping patterns" I mean delay in falling asleep, or broken sleep, or waking up and being unable to go back to sleep, or a combination of these.)
I am not an expert in sleep, but my experience in talking to these patients suggests that worry about a perceived lack of sleep is as much of a problem as a lack of sleep itself. Often a good question to ask is, "Do you feel you are short of sleep?"
As has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, not everyone needs the eight hours that are sometimes recommended (and I've no idea where that comes from). It's also true that, as Zero says, you can vary the amount of sleep on a night-to-night basis, as long as you make up what is a small amount sleep for you one night by sleeping extra the next.
Some strategies: don't eat too late, don't drink caffeine beverages in the evening; be aware that alcohol, while it sometimes makes people sleepy, actually hinders sleep in others; reading appropriate material in bed before sleeping can help, as can listening to music. You can buy a bedside light that gradually dims. If you can't sleep, rather than fret about it, get up and do something useful for a while, than go back to bed. Ensure you take plenty of exercise so that your body is naturally tired by the end of the day. A visit to Holland and Barrett will reveal a large selection of herbal medication, some of which may be of use to you. Some people swear by pillows with specific stuffings like hops. It also has to be said that sex is a great relaxation and people often feel like sleeping afterwards.
Zero's point about getting up at a reasonably early time I have come across before; the idea is that even if you're short of sleep as a result, the next night you should be more than ready to drop off at the appropriate time.
As for troublesome nightmares, I feel these are the province of the counsellor or psychotherapist.
Despite the above, I have to admit my own sleeping patterns are very poor, probably due to unresolved emotional issues which mean I delay going to bed until ridiculously late times and get up late the next day. ἰατρέ θεράπευσον σεαυτόν and all that, I know.
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>>and virtually hibernate in winter asleep for 18 hours a day,<<
just about sums me up in Winter! in fact i`ve actively been trying to develop my "hibernation" gene, at the moment i HAVE to get up at least every other day, but i`m working on it!
Whats the point of getting up pre-sensible time just to sit huddled in front of the fire or telly?? this time of year i cant lurk, loiter, or potter about at my emporium of produce, so i may as well stay out of the way! - i`ll only get a job if i show my face!!
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>>Ἰατρέ, θεράπευσον σεαυτόν<<
Nice one!
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>>Ἰατρέ, θεράπευσον σεαυτόν<<
Not always possible, I guess.
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Yea!
"The moral of the proverb is counsel to attend to one's own defects rather than criticizing defects in others".
I didn't realise it meant that, until I just reddit!
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Yes, Luke 4:23. Luke was a physician, it seems.
However, the phrase was proverbial at the time, as Luke's narrative makes clear, and has been attributed to Euripides and Aeschylus among others.
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I don't book any jobs in now till 11:00am, as I if there are any early I worry the night before that I need to get some good sleep, as a result I don't sleep. That said my final appointment in the evening can be 9pm, so its not really an issue not working till 11:00am.
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I would like to know what R.P.'s relaxation technique is.
Where is the man when you want him? ;-)
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>> I would like to know what R.P.'s relaxation technique is.
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>> Where is the man when you want him? ;-)
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He's retired, it's a cold, dark winters (early) evening. Hopefully he's have a snooze in front of the fire ;-)
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Most of you are aware of what happened to me three years ago, I resolved that day not to seek medical help. It was life changing. I have always been a positive type of guy, but this did throw me off my axle and still has a knock on. I always viewed sleep as a positive, almost a curative, fixing process.
I slept very badly for a few days, and resorted to "Nytol" en-route to a friend's house and I slept solidly for 12 hours - I remember waking the following morning and stopped thinking whether life was worth living or not. My sleep patterns improved over the months that followed and I developed a knack of sleeping whenever I felt tired, especially after work or something stressful happened.
The techniques I learnt were around relaxation and I've modified these to meet my current needs....I avoid drinking tea or coffee after 5.00pm. I rarely drink alcohol these days, but when I do I tend to drink moderately. Apart from removing diuretics from my diet it also means I have no stimulants in my body. I go to bed in a time slot between 10.30pm and 12.00 every night, I read a few pages alomst every night. I've found I lie in the same position every night and rarely shift. I empty my mind of stuff that stresses me - just stop thinking about them. I then use the brief time between wakefulness to re-build a particular memory (it could be about anything - holidays are good) I sleep within minutes. If I sleep on my back I snore (allegedly) of course so the ideal position for me is on my left side, hand under the pillow.
If I don't sleep in the first half hour, I get up - eat a bowl of cereal - invariably I go to sleep when I go back to bed. Last night was a poor night's sleep, mistake was a glass of Pepsi before going to bed, the weather didn't help, wife was on "lates" Although I slept quite well, unusually I woke up at around 4.30am and needing a pee. I had a raging thirst, (heating and winter duvet combo)......I may grab a power-nap shortly if the need arises. But I'm certain (statistically) that I'll be ok tonight.
Works for me.
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Just re-reading this, I have had scary bad dreams, but thankfully very, very rarely, I still dream a lot, but nothing really bad. I can't predict when these will happen. Certain graphic passages in books can affect me, especially the factual stuff,,,I suppose I could avoid them as well !
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Huh. Chance would be a fine thing. Doubt if I've had four undisturbed hours in a year or more.
Too little physical and too much intellectual exercise. Bad lifestyle. Age. Stupidity.
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The most important thing about sleeping is to get as much as you can while your at work on nights then there's more time during the day for me.
Usually 4hrs sometimes 6hrs.
At work now on nights..................
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Three things you need for a good nights sleep -
1. It needs to be cool
2. Dark
3. And quiet
Old Navy will be along now to tell me that he used to cat nap in the submarine engine room with his head rested against the vibrating crankcase...
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>>Old Navy will be along now to tell me that he used to cat nap in the submarine engine room with his head rested against the vibrating crankcase...
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I wil lwait to see if Crankcase confirms this.
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I'm sure I have some form of mild narcolepsy when a passenger in moving things. Cars, planes, trains, anything in fact as long as I'm not driving it. On planes in particular I often nod off before the thing gets off the ground and only wake to the bump of the landing gear hitting the tarmac at the destination.
Paradox is, no matter how far or how long I drive, I never feel noticeably tired but within minutes of getting out of the car I can feel absolutely knackered.
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>> Paradox is, no matter how far or how long I drive, I never feel noticeably
>> tired but within minutes of getting out of the car I can feel absolutely knackered.
That's because your body instinctively knows that you have to concentrate to stay alive and will produce adrenaline to keep you going.
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...I'm sure I have some form of mild narcolepsy...
A defendant at court tried to wriggle out of a trial by playing the narcolepsy card.
Don't think the judge was very impressed, there's a long tradition in the courts of participants not paying attention, not to say nodding off occasionally.
It was ruled the trial could go ahead, but it didn't because at that point the defendant pleaded guilty.
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>> Don't think the judge was very impressed, there's a long tradition in the courts of
>> participants not paying attention, not to say nodding off occasionally.
>>
Traditionally isn't it the judge who falls asleep?
Wakes up with a start, pronounces death sentence, but has to be reminded that this is only a minor case, or that he hasn't heard the defence yet.
Last edited by: Cliff Pope on Thu 5 Jan 12 at 09:29
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...Traditionally isn't it the judge who falls asleep?...
In many years of attending court, I've seen only one nailed-on example of someone falling asleep.
A Group 4 security guard began snoring while a barrister was mitigating on behalf of his client.
We teased the barrister mercilessly afterwards for his boring advocacy.
It was the last we saw of the guard, Group 4 didn't sack him, but he was transferred to other duties.
There's been several instances where I suspected jurors or others in court may have been asleep, but across a court room it's hard to be certain just by looking at the person.
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>> I will wait to see if Crankcase confirms this
:-)))
Last edited by: corax on Tue 3 Jan 12 at 19:42
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You nasty people. I'm trying to overcome my Δεῖμος καὶ Φόβος, as we're doing Greek today, not make it worse.
Anyway, Old Navy would make mincemeat of me.
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'Er and me have our own rooms....mainly due to snoring on both our parts but the computer is in my room so I can play around without disturbing her. She usually goes up about 10 as she's always tired. I make meself a cup of tea and come up and log on. I usually finish just after midnight and turn in.
I always have the window open and the room cold. I sleep well, some nights foot pain becomes unbearable but a couple more tablets, a cuppa and a sit in a chair for half an hour sort it out.
I dream quite a lot. A few times I have the most intricate dreams, usually in sepia, with incredible detail of my surroundings. The strange thing is, if I have to do anything in the dream such as climbing a hill or a flight of steps, I wake up with angina and have to use my spray.....weird.
I hear the kids going past about 0745 and just doze until about 0900. Work usually leaves me alone until after 0830 unless it's something urgent like an RTA to deal with. I don't get night calls, sometimes an evening one, but not often.
The big killer is the armchair...if I was doing something active in the evening I could keep at it but sit down and I'm dozing all the time.
Old age creeps on.......but not very often nowadays !
Ted
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I rarely have trouble sleeping.
I have window open even in deepest winter but as the wife has heart issues, she needs to be kept warm so she has a heated blanket on her side.
The beauty of self-employment is that I only have a couple of early starts each week, usually not booking work before 11am as I tend to be a night owl, early mornings are for farmers.
I never sleep during the day unless im ill and even then I struggle but perhaps its why when I do put my head down I stay down until the morning.
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What happened three years ago Rob.?
My sleep pattern is all over the place.Usually to bed after one and up for about nine.
Also a few hrs sleep in the afternoon I soon get tired now.The big operation knocked me for six.I can eat only small amounts of food and have stumach problems every day.I am very carefull what i eat.Very little meat mostly vegetarian.Meat takes to long to digest.
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I used to have incredible problems getting to sleep, although once asleep, slept well. Problem is, that was often 3am, with my alarm going off at 6am.
I've made a few lifestyle changes which have really helped. These include:
No food or coffee after 7pm.
A brisk 30 minute (2 mile) walk with the dog at around 9:30
Shower and into bed between 10:30 and 11pm.
I am usually asleep within 20 minutes of getting to bed now, although still have the odd bad night.
I can't sleep during the day. Apart from finding it difficult to actually get to sleep, on the rare occasion I've done it, it makes me feel lousy afterwards. Similar sluggish, fuzzy feeling to having a couple of pints at lunchtime, which again I tend to avoid.
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Sounds you are having a healthy live style and if it works for you keep it up.
Just thinking about my brother at the moment.Very fit for his age he also does a lot of voluntary work for handcapped people.Went to see him this summer with my daughter and we had a great time.He was struggling swallowing his food and went to see his doctor.He was referred to hospital and a infection was found in his troat.
He has lost weight he is 6 feet two and now about 76 kilo's which is light.He has been back this morning to hospital for another check and a tumor has been found and the doctor told him he has Esophageal cancer the same what I had.Iam shocked at the moment,he is seeing the oncologist next week.I hope the doctors can operate Jan is 58.I still can't believe it what a start to the new year.
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Really sad to hear that Dutchie. Best wishes to your brother.
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Thanks Norwich,Jan rang me up 1 hr ago.He is a happy go lucky caracter.Anyway I leave it at that .He will problaby have chemo and we go and see him soon.
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>> can operate Jan is 58.I still can't believe it what a start to the new
>> year.
>>
im only 42 and have a brain tumor. not fair and all that
hope your brother is ok
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What happened three years ago Rob.?
My first wife died very unexpectedly
Last edited by: R.P. on Thu 5 Jan 12 at 14:33
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I feel impelled to respond to RP and to Dutchie - but how difficult it is to do so, without sounding either insincere, effusive or trite.
Perhaps it's best just to record that am moved by what they have said and know that life dishes up all kinds of stuff for us to deal with which we would rather avoid. Many here will know what I mean.
My very best wishes to all. May your problems be resolved. May the sun shine once more.
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Thanks Focus - this place (well the other) was a bit a refuge in the weeks afterwards - it's been a battle occasionally, but helped through it by Mrs RP - moved on in a lot of ways, sometimes little things effect me disproportionally - maybe one such thing was the despatching of a valued member here to the naughty step for a while...! :-)
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>> Thanks Focus
Much as I would have liked to write that post...
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The stuff you mention in your earlier post (about the little things) is entirely understandable, RP. I've been in a dark place for some time now, though maybe (just maybe!) the clouds are beginning to lift.
I didn't realise you had had to wield your wand in such dramatic fashion! (And I'm really curious, though I wouldn't dream of mentioning it.)
Last edited by: FocalPoint on Thu 5 Jan 12 at 15:15
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>> Thanks Focus - this place (well the other) was a bit a refuge in the
>> weeks afterwards - it's been a battle occasionally, but helped through it by Mrs RP
>> - moved on in a lot of ways, sometimes little things effect me disproportionally -
>> maybe one such thing was the despatching of a valued member here to the naughty
>> step for a while...! :-)
Really? one of us was blackballed? gosh.
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It was me;)
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Thu 5 Jan 12 at 16:16
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So now you admit to masquerading as Mr X and Ling!! ;-)
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Sshhhh, I'm just trying to take the heat of RP having to answer that...Men, no tact at all :)
Pat
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I won;t the hypocritical oath and all that ! - May have been in HJ of course
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My apologies R.P. didn't mean to be intrusive.
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Getting a good night's sleep - Roger.
