Sort of semi-constant background muscular pain across the shoulder blades. Not sufficient to justify the 1/2 day off work any trip to the doctors inevitably involves, and probably more postural than anything else.
I work at a laptop most of the day and probably average 2 hours a day in the car.
Lots of quackery on the web, the usual suspects claiming everything would be fine if I turned vegan/used crystals
Any suggestions for good sources of self-help ?
(as it's sunny, I'll start with a walk to the library at lunchtime)
|
|
Swim. Seriously, swim every day if you can. Works wonders for my creaky old frame. I had a serious back injury many years ago involving inadvertantly getting off a horse while it was jumping a five bar gate at the gallop. Left me fairly permanently crocked but if I swim regularly it seems to ease things for a while. I suppose it's the non-weight bearing element of the excercise.
|
Swimming is the one form of excercise I abhor - hate it with a vengeance. Something to do with secondary school and being bussed to the swimming pool every wednesday along with the rest of those who weren't good enough to make 'the team' at whatever was in season. Three years of it, and not a single swimming lesson. English teacher got a lot of marking done though.
|
>> Swimming is the one form of excercise I abhor - hate it with a vengeance.
>> Something to do with secondary school and being bussed to the swimming pool every >> wednesday
Up until very recently I was in full agreement with you. I was taken to swimming lessons every Tuesday after school and the teacher was an absolute cow. She was horrid and I used to hate these lesson to such an extent that they gave me something approaching a phobia of swimming.
However, recently I have been trying to trim down ready for my forth-coming nuptials. We tried the gym and, while Mrs Badwolf likes it, I found it a chore and resented going. She then suggested swimming as, not only is it good exercise, it would help me with the backache I get from my job. Because of my childhood experiences I demurred but after some heavy to industrial strength persuasion I gave in for the sake of a quiet life. I didn't really enjoy it but it was nowhere near the ordeal that I thought it was going to be. I still can't put my face under water, but I've got used to it enough now to spend an hour and a half in the pool with my kids today and enjoy every minute.
It's easy enough to say, but give it a whirl - you never know, it may not be as bad as you think.
|
>> Something to do with secondary school and being bussed to the swimming pool every wednesday
you were lucky to be bussed, we had to walk 2 miles to the baths come rain or shine and then left to half drown every week
|
These days I have come to the conclusion that any back/neck muscle tweak is going to cause discomfort for about 3 to 4 days no matter what I do. Then, because it's there you start to "hold" yourself differently and that just exacerbates it and you get into a vicious circle.
Personally I've found that the ibuprofen gels, that you (or a partner) rub in locally, provide very good short term relief and can help to break that circle.
In terms of prevention in the first place - the difficulty is narrowing down what has caused it. Being more flexible might help - stretching exercises, maybe even yoga - but trying to find out what's causing it might be most useful.
|
>> Personally I've found that the ibuprofen gels that you (or a partner) rub in locally
>> provide very good short term relief and can help to break that circle.
She's very good at that sort of thing :-)
|
>>She's very good at that sort of thing :-)
What, the rubbing bit or the short term relief?
|
I wasn't a majorly keen swimmer either until I discovered its benefits. At first it was a case of which could I put up with more, permanent back pain or a half hour swim every day. In due course I began to enjoy it and became quite good at it in the end.
You can get waterproof MP3 players now !
|
Chiropractor/Osteopath with an emphasis on massage + heat therapy.
Or try a wheat bag ~ www.wheatbag.com/
|
Laptops are very bad for posture unless used with a separate keyboard, mouse and VDU. My employer ensures we have regular assessments and use of laptop without KVM provision is an automatic fail.
Assessments are carried out either by a trained member of staff or via an on line tool (cardinus). If you're employer is not insisting on someting similar you need to apply pressure. It's in their interest as well as yours.
Alterntively there must be lots of stuff on the net about reducing the risks with DSE kit.
|
I'm with our canine friend.
I've been to an osteopath a couple of times and they've diagnosed problems that my GP failed to. One notable case was a torn muscle.
I've tried swimming, but found it caused more problems than it cured. An osteopath diagnosed knackered vertebrae in my neck.
|
Plus one on a chiropractor from me.
Backache is an occupational hazard of my job; lorry driving alone can be bad enough but about 30% of my deliveries involve "handball", unloading 25kg bags of animal feeds.
When you first go, you should be given a set of simple exercises to do which I recommend you keep up. The worst thing you can do with a bad back is keep too still.
|
are you tall?
do you stoop and let your shoulders droop?
if you do then stand up straight and lift your shoulders high
get rid of the vauxhall as thet kill backs
and put the laptop on some books to lift it closer to your eye level
and thats a ridiculous price for a wheat bag
|
SWIM SWIM SWIM.!!!!
Doctor recomended i take it up 3 years ago when i had the same pain as you across the shoulders and bye eck it worked !
I go now 3 days a week swim for 30-45 mins breaststroke is all i can do and it eases me plus it makes you fell good about yourself god only knows why but it does so if your rubbish so what if your fat like me so what they will laugh at you in the street or in the pool but at least the pain will go away!
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 16 Apr 10 at 14:00
|
>> are you tall?
no
>> do you stoop and let your shoulders droop?
probably
>> get rid of the vauxhall as thet kill backs
it's a skoda
>> and put the laptop on some books to lift it closer to your eye level
done that - used to have a proper stand but it collapsed
>> and thats a ridiculous price for a wheat bag
que ?
|
Having used computer stuff for 30 years in all sorts of circumstances, I would suggest that
the arms of your chair or your desk/keyboard are too high or low causing you to stoop or hunch your shoulders, coupled with the screen being too high causing you to compress the vertabrae in your neck at the same time.
also dont have a mouse too far off to the left or right, it twists your arm/shoulder too much.
|
Look for a good physiotherapist. Physios and osteopaths both use manipulation, but whereas a physio will only manipulate within the normal range of flex, an osteopath may go beyond that. A ex-colleague who was a major osteopathy fan eventually developed chronic joint problems which she was told were due to excessive manipulation.
I have a permanent neck injury that would regularly reduce me to tears with pain. The quack sent me for x-rays which showed nothing. I suggested physiotherapy which he agreed with; 3 sessions and I was much better and able to use exercises and to control my posture to minimise problems. There have been a few occasions over the years when I have had a 'relapse', now I just book 2 or 3 £50 sessions with the physio to sort it out and believe me it's good value. It's not instant, and they give me 'exercises', but it works and I usually get enough benefit from the first session to take the edge off it.
If it's a neck/shoulder problem, the classic desk-worker issue is the slumping and craning forward that puts an 'S' into the spine. Moving your head back and up to straighten your spine should help. Tilting your seat forward, or using a wedge on the seat to tilt you forward, can make it easier as it naturally brings you nearer to the screen and keyboard.
|
My wife suffers from lower pack problems. Swimming helps a lot. She also went to the osteopath occasionally. Since she started doing yoga at the gym, she hasn't needed to go to the osteopath in well over a year or more.
When she did go to the osteopath, the first day she was always in more pain and discomfort than when she went. But it did help a lot.
|
|
Or get yourself to a massage parlour you can have a massage plus any extras you may feel much better afterwards!
|
>>> Or get yourself to a massage parlour <<<
Hehe! I must tell ya this one ... I'll keep it as clean as I can or I'll have smokey on my back again.
A friend of mine used to go to a massage parlour in Newquay (of all places) for an Aromatherapy massage.
She used to lean over him almost pushing her attributes into his face,
but he never really bit as he was genuinely there for his back trouble.
He used to come up and tell me about it and I would larf out loud about 'the effect' it would have on him.
He wasn't no fool mind (ex Docker) but he just didn't cotton on.
|
If he had have bitten, could she have claimed for a work-related injury :-)
Back to the OP, I'd second the advice to check with a chiro or oesteo (down our way there's an annual Back Week when they they offer check-ups), followed by Pilates based/physio exercises to build up core muscle stability. Worked for me - it used to be like the ascent of man, I'd get out of the car at work and go from dragging my knuckles to standing (vaguely) upright as I walked across the car park...
|
Sounds like poor desktop/car ergonomics or stress related to me. I used to get pain like that. Stretching is a good thing for it as is massage. If you can persuade someone to massage your shoulders and dig their thumbs inbetween your shoulder blades and spine it will ease. It does hurt when they do it but in a good way (sounds pervy but isn't!)
Making sure you steer correcty helps reduce backpain as pulling the wheel is less effort than pushing it round. Also make sure your seat is adjusted so that you can get at the wheel and sit comfortably in the seat.
The Anatomy of Stretching that's on amazon is a brilliant book and has loads of stretches for different muscle groups. Also great if you aren't a fan of swimming (I'm certainly not!)
|
I've had chronic sciatica for more than 8 years.
Numb tootsies, occasionally numb upper thighs, aches where sciatic nerve transits pelvis - nowt helps!
I just put up with it and sleep in a foetal position!
|
>> Numb tootsies occasionally numb upper thighs aches where sciatic nerve transits pelvis - nowt helps!
>> I just put up with it and sleep in a foetal position!
>>
Sometimes sciatic pain is caused by the piriformis muscle being too tight. It's a muscle which goes round your backside and onto the thigh. The sciatic nerve can be squashed by it. Sit cross legged and lean forward. This stretches it a bit and can help. Then do the other side by crossing your legs the other way round.
|
While back pain depends on lots of factors (sometimes things beyond your control), I cured my pain in following way.
Following my long commute recently, I had to see my GP due to sudden back pain development. She prescribed some free hand exercise but I finally cured it using following approach.
(Note: I also work with laptop often 8-10 hrs a day and drive 3 hours everyday)
Car
An automatic is better than manual car. However, my car is manual and since my most journey is on motorway, I try to maintain speed so that I don't have to use brake/clutch often. As a result, my 30+30 miles journey on m'way is now more relaxing. If you have cruise control, please make use of it (my car doesn't have it though). Using this strategy helped me a lot.
Adjust your seat lumber support in several angle for few days. For bad angles you'll feel pain every day, with a good posture you suddenly feel you're no longer feeling exhausted (it worked for me at least).
Laptop
Make sure when you work with it, your back side rests on seat back and you are not stooping with a bent back. This is quite important. If you have problem with that posture, use an external keyboard with your laptop (it helped me a lot while working with laptop in my home).
Exercise
Not absolutely necessary IMHO but good if you can manage. But spend 5-10 minutes (yes, that's enough) every day with some free hand exercise.
Hope it helps.
|
Cheers to all who have responded.
I'm trying to get the car sorted as per the ergonomics recommendations from Loughborough university, who are supposed to be the experts on the matter, and I've got a decent laptop stand for work.
The only book I could find in the library last week appears to have been written by the osteopath to the East German athletics team in the 1970's, so I'm not sure how much use it's going to be, but if I can work out what the exercises are meant to be, I'll give them a whirl.
You'll still not get me in the pool though.
@Badwolf - ever read Stuart Maconie's 'Cider with Roadies' - he and I went to the same school, and he obviously hated the gym teachers more than I did :-)
|
>> @Badwolf - ever read Stuart Maconie's 'Cider with Roadies' - he and I went to
>> the same school and he obviously hated the gym teachers more than I did :-)
I have, yes. A very good book written by a very witty man. His 'Pies And Prejudice - In Search of the North' is excellent.
|
That's a funny thing. I just had a go at reading Pies and Prejudice hoping to enjoy it and found it incomprehensible and tedious! Had to give up, which is rare for me.
Guess we're all different.
|
|
I guess we are! Good thing too...
|
>> Any suggestions for good sources of self-help ?
www.bigbackpain.com/back_exercises.html
|
|
Or go have lots of sex your back may still ache but you will feel great.!!
|
>>have lots of sex your back may still ache but you will feel great.!!<<
Ignor this advice if you're in Haiti and the earth moves for you.
|
|
I find that an electric heat pad helps. £15.99 from Argos. tinyurl.com/34hkal5
Last edited by: L'escargot on Mon 10 May 10 at 07:44
|
For those with joint pains it can be worth trying Ginkgo Biloba & Ginseng tablets,
two to three a day --- £10 for a pot of 180 from a respected Guernsey place or
you could try a high street shop.
I have several friends who have proved conclusively that they work for them
with their problem. Their pain comes back when they stop taking them.
You may or may not have a similar problem.
I have an old knee joint injury that comes back when I do vigorous
exercise if I stop taking them. It is not too serious and so some times I
take them and sometimes not.
Shortest time I have known them to work is 4 days, but persist for a couple
of weeks if not. As usual, as with any tablets, beware there might be side
affects. I only know of a 'friend of a friend' who claims to have come across
one with these. So those appear to be quite rare
If you ask a doctor whether or not you should take these you are most unlikely
to be advised to go ahead. Although I did find one that agreed they were
very good, in a casual remark.
Not too surprising that. What doctor in this litigation age is going to risk
advising you to take tablets that have not been tested and approval by NICE.
But then, which drug company is going to fund such a test? They are in it to
make money and these can already be bought cheaply on the high street.
So, there is a serious lack of properly conducted tests for high street tablets.
And we are missing a lot of what could be very useful information.
|
oops. Should have written Glucosamine & Chondroitin. Picked up the wrong container, to see how to spell it, in my rush to keep an appointment! It was not a lot of help, was it. Can put that in instead, Mods, and lose this one.
Last edited by: busbee on Mon 10 May 10 at 17:36
|
In my last year working as a lorry driver I tried the above to try and relieve the pain and stuffness of arthritis and I have to say, they did nothing for me whatsoever other than cost a lot of money.
I tried Emu Oil and various other 'cures' from there catalogue and all to no avail.
My doctor agreed with trying them and said they worked for some and not for others, she was right.
I've been waiting to see if anyone else posted about acupuncture on this thread, but as they haven't I will stick my head above the parapet!
Twice over the last 25 years I have had a bad back, not arthritis but the typical sort that means at best you can crawl, at worst you can't even do that.
The first time I was living alone and didn't know what to do as it was a Bank holiday weekend, and I didn't want to summon family over from Leics.
The only person I could raise on the monday was an Osteopath. I didn't have much faith but was prepared to try anything. She recommended acupuncture instead of manipulation and it worked immediately. I went on to have another 2 sessions and was able to return to work.
On the second occasion I looked for her phone number only to find she had moved, but I managed to find another local accupuncturist ( if that's the right word?) and he did it no good at all.
This gives me the impression that the treatment is only as good as the person giving it.
My Doctor's view is more materialistic, she says a bad back will last for 6 weeks whether you treat it with anything or not, and she's right too.
She also accepts that my smoking is not negotiable ( her words!).
Pat
|
>> My Doctor ........... says a bad back will last for 6
>> weeks whether you treat it with anything or not, ............
In that case I've only got another ten days to go. Co-codamol and Cuprofen haven't relieved it. I'm on the outpatients list to have an MRI scan and then to see a consultant neurosurgeon.
|
>>
>> In that case I've only got another ten days to go. I'm on the outpatients list to have an MRI scan and then to
>> see a consultant neurosurgeon.
Think yourself lucky. It's taken my wife from mid-September till last month to get to that stage, and it was only because she's pursuing a compensation claim aganst her employers that the medics have finally got their act together.
|
I'm only on the outpatients list. I haven't got an appointment yet.
When back pain progressively (albeit slowly in my case) decreases without treatment, does it indicate that the cause is gradually repairing itself? I'm trying to look on the bright side.
|
In my case, yes it does.
I've had this 3 times now about 6 years apart, and it has always slowly got better.
I try and keep moving, and 'bed rest'.
That's why I related the tale of the acupuncture, I had the same result without as with it, but not so quickly.
Pat
|
It's been suggested to me that a nicotine patch stuck on my lower back might help to relax the muscles and reduce my pain. What do you reckon?
I don't think I'd want to have a cigar inserted into my rectum as this suggests! www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=1554
|
Another vote for swimming here. I injured my lower back a few years ago and it really influence my car choices from then onwards (i.e Ford Focus are a no-go, but a VW Golf is ok)
Swimming helps but only if I do it regularly - in conjunction with the occasional ibuprofen I can almost forget about it!
Walking seems to be an odd one. If I walk for a mile or so it hurts during the walk, but the aftereffect is it actually reduces the stiffness and pain!
|
>>I don't think I'd want to have a cigar inserted into my rectum as this suggests! <<
Do you like coffee L'esnaily ~ www.awakeninghealth.com/index.asp?id=47
|
Back Pain - Runfer D'Hills
