www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16239693
Is there a chance that this poor benighted country has now got a chance of emerging blinking into the real world ?
Last edited by: R.P. on Mon 19 Dec 11 at 08:36
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"has now got a chance of emerging blinking into the real world ?"
what have they done to deserve that ? :-)
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Been oppressed by a succession of fascist leaders for the last 60 years ?
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Should that be Kim Jong-very-il.
His likely successor, Kim Jong-un, sounds like a Kevin-the-teenager.
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>> Should that be Kim Jong-very-il.
>>
Hehe
>> His likely successor, Kim Jong-un, sounds like a Kevin-the-teenager.
>>
No, that's Kim Jong-huh ...
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16239693
>>
>> Is there a chance that this poor benighted country has now got a chance of
>> emerging blinking into the real world ?
No. There is however a chance that the military will perform a coup, and drag it further into benighted, (wherever that is)
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More than a fighting chance that Zero is right - could be an interesting week for the Chosun, especially the Chosun Un.
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Hopefully China will do the right thing and encourage reforms and freedom like they did in Tibet. ;-)
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Korea will nuke Iran and vice versa...
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The official North Korea News Agency has fired up its typewriter to issue the following statement:
The wording on the Dear Leader's memorial will be:
'I TOLD YOU I WAS IL'
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i guess it all depends on the chinese. How do they want this to play out. A coup may happen but only if they support it. If they didn't it wouldn't last long at all. I think their main concern would be to carry on with their anti us stance. They wouldn't want a pro us state on their border
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>> i guess it all depends on the chinese. How do they want this to play
>> out. A coup may happen but only if they support it. If they didn't it
>> wouldn't last long at all. I think their main concern would be to carry on
>> with their anti us stance. They wouldn't want a pro us state on their border
Do you mean anti us (UK) or anti US? Are 'they' in the last two sentences the Koreans or the Chinese?
Subject to that I think I agree.
They (the Korean they) are certainly upset about it.
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>> They (the Korean they) are certainly upset about it.
All nicely staged.
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They can't be anything but upset - it wouldn't be allowed.
There are a couple of interesting articles about what's actually going on there at the minute in the DailyNK, at
www.dailynk.com/english/index.php
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>> All nicely staged.
Possibly not.
My wife grew up in Soviet Russia. She tells me that when Brezhnev snuffed it in 1982, she and her classmates at school were beside themselves with genuine grief. At the time he was portrayed in the USSR as being an almost otherworldly and irreplaceable father figure, and the only thing stopping invasion by the capitalists and possible nuclear war.
Sounds quite laughable to those of us brought up in democracies and very difficult to relate to unless you've seen it.
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'Sounds quite laughable to those of us brought up in democracies and very difficult to relate to unless you've seen it."
Not if you witnessed the scenes when Diana died
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Millions starving or malnourished, reduced to eating grass gathered from the city roundabouts and they are so upset they are blubbing on the street and live on TV while reading the news!
Going to be shot if they don't make the right noises I'd guess and as Bagpuss has stated. Mind you they are tops at important stuff like marching in very neat lines and making amazing pictures by moving coloured cards but it doesn't put food on the table!
Diana was liked by the public and don't think The Drear Leader was, people were forced to "like" him!
Last edited by: Meldrew on Mon 19 Dec 11 at 14:09
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Caught a bit of the Jeremy Vine show when I got in the car earlier. And someone had got in touch to say North Korea only left to continue as they are due to the trade we do with them. The listener obviously doesn't know the difference between north and south Korea then.
Let's hope some good comes of this change. Too many north Koreans continue to suffer. Official average wage per month is $2.
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It could be a good Korea-move for somebody!
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I thought he had been dead for years, and was just a propped-up cardboard model?
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sorry on the phone; yes anti US. Yes by they i meant china.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 19 Dec 11 at 19:41
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Despot country he lived the live of riley the godly leader whilst his people suffered.
China supports this hell hole for their own curious reason.
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>> Despot country he lived the live of riley the godly leader whilst his people suffered.
>>
>> China supports this hell hole for their own curious reason.
>>
Simple.. If the Chinese get stroppy, they point to N Korea and ask "do you want to live like this?"
And the complainers fall silent...
(Like the US tolerates Mexico or Cuba)
Last edited by: madf on Mon 19 Dec 11 at 17:03
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I used to believe what ‘they’ told me in the Zionist media, but not since I became edumacated,
I do my own research now,and then validate that research,
Through that research, I can well understand how the North Koreans look towards South Korea, Japan and America - a threat, and to be guarded against,
I see that Korea was under Japanese rule for 35 years, which only came to an end after the Japanese defeat in World War II.
Korea was divided by the UN after WW2 which led to what started out as a civil war but actually became a proxy war, fought between the Soviets on the one hand and America on the other, leading to the loss of more than 2 million civilians and soldiers, mostly Korean.
Backed by the US, Syngman Rhee became the first president of South Korea (1948-1960) he outlawed political dissent, eliminated leftist political organizers, allowed the security force to detain and torture suspected Communists and North Korean agents, and oversaw several massacres, the most notable one being on Jeju island, where over 30,000 protesters were killed by police.
Syngman Rhee also had plans to become the leader of the whole of Korea, those plans included the elimination of Kim Il-Sung, president of North Korea.
It is quoted that he expressed annoyance with the US at their reluctance to bomb China with nuclear weapons during the war, and he was accused of embezzling more than $20 million in government funds.
He was flown to exile in Hawaii in 1960 by the Central Intelligence Agency to join his Austrian-born wife and adopted son.
Maybe with the death of Kim Jong-il, there is now a chance for reunification, of some sorts, but I wouldn't bank on it.
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Read the excellent Max Hastings book on the Korean conflict. Cracking bit of background, including the feeding of British National Service squaddies into the mincing machine - very much a forgotten episode of this country's military history.
Whatever the South Koreans visited on their citizens the North certainly made up for it in the way they've subjected their own people to physical and mental brain-washing.
Don't get on with any country that eats dogs though.
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A dog is just meat, essentially.
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Jeezus, it's like Princess Diana all over again.
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State funeral and cremation on Thursday.
The Dyslexic Muslim Association is issuing the family with death threats for planning to burn a Korean
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Not very efficient eating dogs or any carnivore. Cost too much to raise as too many steps in the food chain. That's why you will never see them in Tesco, or at least only in the luxury food range.
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I do believe they are consumed in the far east.ChowChow.Never fancied a Dog.>:)
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>>Read the excellent Max Hastings book on the Korean conflict.
And anything else he writes in the press?
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No avoid the press stuff.
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You dont half come out with some crap at times dog.
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>> You dont half come out with some crap at times dog.
>>
I can see how a Dog might have a different perspective on Korea that us humans ...
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Not sure about the Zionist press but all the information provided in Dog's post is basically correct is it not?
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>> Not sure about the Zionist press but all the information provided in Dog's post is
>> basically correct is it not?
First off, as soon as anyone spouts "zionist press" it means they dont know what the hell they are talking about, and just trotting out words they have heard.
Second off, he seems top have only researched one side (which side yes is basically correct apart from the amazingly simplistic and plain wrong "it started off as a civil war") and he chose to berate the south, because it was American backed, and ignore the North and in so doing try to make them look completely harmless.
Its the most one sided perspective I have ever seen. he seems to have researched it from the North Korean people congress Library.
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"Its the most one sided perspective I have ever seen. "
Try this then!
www.korea-dpr.com/mother.htm
(takes a while to load - they need time to take down your name and address)
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Tue 20 Dec 11 at 11:19
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I like the fact you can buy a golf shirt in their shop!
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...I like the fact you can buy a golf shirt in their shop!...
Very brave of you to click on CG's link.
I didn't - just in case he wasn't joking.
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I have a very nice man in a suit in my lounge now drinking some of my coffee.
"Central What? Agency did you say"?
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...I have a very nice man in a suit in my lounge now drinking some of my coffee...
At least you'll have a distinctive shirt to wear down the golf club.
Assuming you can get one last round in before you are carted away.
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>>www.korea-dpr.com/mother.htm<<
Interesting site CG – How very, very sad to read of the hundreds of thousands of lives lost, and for what?
It still continues though (Yankee Imperialism) in Iraq and Afghanistan, even Iran if they thought they could pull it off, with the help of their Zionist friends of course,
The season of good will to all men? don’t make me larf!
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They're happy to take the greenback though !
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>> I used to believe what ‘they’ told me in the Zionist media, but not since
>> I became edumacated,
>> I do my own research now,and then validate that research,
>>
>> Through that research, I can well understand how the North Koreans look towards South Korea,
>> Japan and America - a threat, and to be guarded against,
In the interests of balance, you might think that the "Zionists", after the extermination of six million Jews and the avowed objective of numerous groups to wipe Israel off the map, would regard just about anybody as a threat to be guarded against and any means as justified.
It's easy to justify most viewpoints if you ignore all unhelpful facts.
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...would regard just about anybody as a threat to be guarded against and any means as justified...
Seems to me they do.
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I guess the fact he croaked means my holiday is off?
www.korea-dpr.com/travel.htm
February Trip 2012
70th Anniversary of the Great Leader KIM JONG IL
Regular trip February 2012
(All Passports except USA)
From 11th to 21st February 2012
(Deadline for pre-inscription: 10th January 2012)
Pre-register now
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Ordered my Christsmas DVD:
"Kim Jong Il Gives Field Guidance to Various Sectors" - Bargain at only EUR25
was going for "Victorious is the DPRK in Single-minded Unity" but prefer the lighter stuff at Christmas
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I've not looked but are any of his operas or musicals on there? Or any golfing books (he got a 38 under par the first time he played and even managed 11 holes in one).
Amazing chap really. I am surprised he had so much time left over to be a ruthless dictator who persecuted and killed so many.
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If you want a DVD that features the Dear Leader then you can do worse than Team America.
www.amazon.co.uk/Team-America-World-Police-DVD/dp/B0007LPLMY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1324397073&sr=8-1
And don't forget to make the Secret Sign afterwards.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 20 Dec 11 at 16:06
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>> Ordered my Christsmas DVD:
>>
>> "Kim Jong Il Gives Field Guidance to Various Sectors" - Bargain at only EUR25
>>
>> was going for "Victorious is the DPRK in Single-minded Unity" but prefer the lighter stuff
>> at Christmas
I have a pirate copy for you here
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGSp4s-O6gk
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DNtMbH37Kk&feature=related
Care of the zionist yankee imperialist internet.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 20 Dec 11 at 16:06
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Is nothing safe from the running dogs of western imperialism.
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Ya know, the more I look-into The Hermit Kingdom, the more I believe it to be the ideal society, in many ways
Sure you may laugh, but considerer this:
Do their children have ready access to hard core pornography like they do in England?
Do they have a binge drinking culture among the young like we do in England?
Do they have a huge drug problem out there like we do in England?
Do they have a childhood obesity problem like we do in England?
Not wishing to upset anyone, I wont mention our multi-cultural society, but check out their views on that subject in the DPRK
I wont mention Homo-sexuals, but check that out their policy on that subject too,
OK, perhaps it isn't without it’s problems, such as the crop failures, leading to a whole bunch of people under eating,
but how about all the people in England clogging up the hospital wards due to over eating.
Comrade Alanović suggested a book to me called “Stasi Hell or Workers’ Paradise?” Socialism in the GDR – what can we learn from it?
I went out and bought that booklet but I was in no way surprised by what I read, as I was in West and East Germany shortly after ‘the wall came down’,
And although the West had the money, the BMW’s and the over-grand real estate, the East had something money can’t buy – a comradeship and a friendlyness, an all for one, one for all mentality,rarely found in the West.
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>> Ya know, the more I look-into The Hermit Kingdom, the more I believe it to
>> be the ideal society, in many ways
>>
>> Sure you may laugh, but considerer this:
>>
>> Do their children have ready access to hard core pornography like they do in England?
They only have access to books about things the depot leadership wants them to see.
>>
>> Do they have a binge drinking culture among the young like we do in England?
They are only allowed to drink what the despotic leadership wants them to drink. You think they get orange juice? Nah the money for the juice goes on the army.
>>
>> Do they have a huge drug problem out there like we do in England?
Nope, nor any drugs to cure illnesses or disease.
>>
>> Do they have a childhood obesity problem like we do in England?
No the kids are dying of starvation.
>>
>> Not wishing to upset anyone, I wont mention our multi-cultural society, but check out their
>> views on that subject in the DPRK
Why dont you explain it to us?
>>
>> I wont mention Homo-sexuals, but check that out their policy on that subject too,
Explain it to us.
>>
>> OK, perhaps it isn't without it’s problems, such as the crop failures, leading to a
>> whole bunch of people under eating,
>> but how about all the people in England clogging up the hospital wards due to
>> over eating.
>>
>> Comrade Alanović suggested a book to me called “Stasi Hell or Workers’ Paradise?” Socialism in
>> the GDR – what can we learn from it?
>>
>> I went out and bought that booklet but I was in no way surprised by
>> what I read, as I was in West and East Germany shortly after ‘the wall
>> came down’,
>> And although the West had the money, the BMW’s and the over-grand real estate, the
>> East had something money can’t buy – a comradeship and a friendlyness, an all for
>> one, one for all mentality,rarely found in the West.
East Germany was stuffed with fear and mistrust. Everyone was worried that someone else was a spy or paid to inform. People disappeared.
Its confirmed. Your an idiot dog.
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it was actually confirmed (by some Korean official) on ITN news at 6.30 that not weeping in public can actually be considered as a crime against the state! - no wonder they`re all blubbering when they probably feel like cheering!
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"Ya know, the more I look-into The Hermit Kingdom, the more I believe it to be the ideal society, in many ways"
Only if you are the power crazed despot or one of his cronies.
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Had a little trip round PingPong last night on Google Earth.
Interesting.....Clear wide dual carriageways with virtually no traffic. Like the Autobahns, I guess they're to move the troops and tanks quickly. A few larger vehicles, trucks and buses and a few smaller vehicles, mostly black. I imagine they might be cars belonging to the GeheimStatsPolizei.
Fairly big rail system.
Couldn't get Streetview to work though...disappointing !
Ted
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Imagine being brought up to genuinely believe that you were the happiest people on Earth, that you had nothing to envy from the wider world, and that your Leader was the earthly embodiment of God. Imagine having all material that would contradict these views banned and inaccessible, and the ability to travel to other countries to see for yourself denied.
It's easy to mock these outpourings of grief, or dismiss them as little more than choreographed propaganda, but this odious little man and his preachings represent a literal lifetime invested by these people. The reaction to the death of a politician with anything other than celebration might seem odd to us, but when it's the central figure of everything you have been told to believe since birth shuffling off this mortal coil, suddenly the public grief is not quite such a ridiculous idea.
The real tragedy of North Korea is that there isn't an easy fix. While the logical thing to do from our Western viewpoint is to want the country to engage in the wider world, and have it participate more in global affairs, this is not a good idea in practice. Can you imagine the effect it will have on the North Korean people when they discover that the individuals they trusted were self serving despots, the ideology they've been force fed from birth is a pack of lies, and the big wide world has passed them completely by? It is only the isolationist policy of the Kims that has allowed them to peddle this nonsense to their people without any serious challenge. Remove this, and there would be chaos.
Last edited by: DP on Tue 20 Dec 11 at 23:44
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Self preservation is a powerful thing. I suspect that a substantial proportion of the population are pretty much aware of their predicament but frightened to speak out and who could blame them.
Even if that were not the case the rest of the world can hardly agree to maintain the pretences of North Korean regime just because a glimpse of the outside world is going to be shock to the inhabitants of the wretched country.
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I see a connection between Kim Jong Il's many documented feats of superheroism and a certain other brown-skinned guy 2000 years ago who performed miraculous events (reported hundreds of years after he died apparently).
Even walked on water I heard.
Not sure if he ever shot 34 at St Andrews though.
People control is people control, whether it hoists the banner of politics or religion (or both at the same time - a situation many would suggest is the worst of both worlds).
First you need to control the supply of information - preferably by making it up or simply regurgitating the past to fit your own agenda.
Did you know Zeus was so unhappy with an early human race he caused a flood to destroy it. One guy and his wife escaped the flood in a big boat and were finally washed up on a mountain whereupon they started a new, better human race.
Surely noone would try to copy that story at a later date...
etc
etc
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>> Did you know Zeus was so unhappy with an early human race he caused a
>> flood to destroy it. One guy and his wife escaped the flood in a big
>> boat and were finally washed up on a mountain whereupon they started a new, better
>> human race.
>>
>> Surely noone would try to copy that story at a later date...
Just goes to prove that story MUST be true then.
ie, the more sources you hear it from, the more accurate it must be........
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There's a great deal wrong with North Korea, as indeed there is with the developed West, but the thing that really stands out is the sheer inefficiency of a control economy. The average wage is about $50 a year IIRC. The mass of the population has nothing.
It reminds me of communist Russia. The Americans assumed that the Soviet Union spent about 25% of GDP on 'defence'. When more was known, it turned out to have been nearer 75%. The motivation for the arms limitation agreements was plain to see.
The one thing capitalism is good at is creating wealth. Unfortunately it's not sustainable, as it also has an insatiable appetite for raw materials, the demand for the finite supply of which increases geometrically.
Solution TBA.
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Let their be chaos could't be any worse for the majority of people living there.
We are very lucky living in western europe.Nobody has to live on the streets there are always voluntary organisations who will help.
We trow more food in the bin what a lot of people on this planet don't get to eat.
Have you noticed the Russian population is starting to rebel.Lots of people still live in poverty in a country where the minority rules with obscene wealth.
We don't need any lessons from the Chinese either,most of the stuff they make is rubbish anyway.>)
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Dog wasn't all that wrong really. The partition of Korea was really the work of two states powerful in different ways, one of them the US. Obviously you wouldn't want to be a North Korean even without the Mekon. His old man was even worse. I wouldn't want to be the chubby Mekon nipper either.
Although the two Koreas are a spectacular example of the success of capitalism, as they are meant to be, one can't help feeling the US made a bit of a mistake by allowing this situation to arise, although it was not alone in the enterprise. A similar mistake was made with Cuba, but with much less violence. Cuba wanted to be American and was, but the US stupidly shoved it away for moronic ideological reasons. The effect on US standing in Latin America has been dire.
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DP sums up most of my sentiments, but he puts it over much better than me, being I'm an idiot,
It's to easy for us to criticise North Korea, from our comfortable homes and living comfortable lives, at the moment!
I was going to post this in the €uro thread, but here seems as good a place as any, being I've tried to draw a comparison between life in the UK and the DPRK,
It's an alf hour prog (if you have the time) and quite eye opening IMO.
rt.com/programs/keiser-report/episode-225-max-keiser/
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>> The real tragedy of North Korea is that there isn't an easy fix. While the
>> logical thing to do from our Western viewpoint is to want the country to engage
>> in the wider world, and have it participate more in global affairs, this is not
>> a good idea in practice. Can you imagine the effect it will have on the
>> North Korean people when they discover that the individuals they trusted were self serving despots,
>> the ideology they've been force fed from birth is a pack of lies, and the
>> big wide world has passed them completely by? It is only the isolationist policy of
>> the Kims that has allowed them to peddle this nonsense to their people without any
>> serious challenge. Remove this, and there would be chaos.
Sorry - simply not true. We have far too much actual experience of reunification and assimilation happening for real. You see every isolationist despotic regime fails eventually, and they have - NK is probably the last. We know what happens and the south is prepared for it.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 21 Dec 11 at 09:29
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>> The real tragedy of North Korea is that there isn't an easy fix.
>>
Wasn't knocking down the Berlin wall an easy fix? Are the East Germans still traumatised by their sudden exposure to the western world?
Or, to take a converse example, how are the South Vietnamese coping?
It seems to me that reunifying countries usually works pretty well. It's splitting them up in the first place that seems to cause the problems.
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Just spent ten minutes poking me nose in where I probably shouldn't.
Any ideas about this building on a tiny island out on the west coast of NK ? There's another strange semi-circular one just above and to the right.
tinyurl.com/caxfb7h
Something to keep you guessing on Christmas Day.
Got to go...there's a black ZIL pulling up outside and I never ordered a taxi !
Ted
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There is a boom across the river mouth, with a lock, ostensibly to provide tidal defences / tidal power for Pyongyang but in reality to prevent midget subs from entering the river. My guess is its a NK navy radar tower.
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Its called the west sea barrage apparently
If you really want to spot well, check out the railways, specially the ones heading south that disappear into tunnels and are never seen again.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 25 Dec 11 at 10:17
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Yeah, I was looking at the boom and locks as well. There's a big ship in one heading inland.
The area North of the boom and islands shows lots of ' square ' areas with a smaller square in the centre of each. Strange, but I guess they might just be paddy fields with an irrigation tank in the middle. Some seem to have the lid missing and look very dark, as water does on GoogEarth.
I had a look round the railways....lots of them around. Main transport for the punters, I suppose, but there for the troops when needed !
Ted
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I heard a bit on radio 4 Christmas eve afternoon, young woman who was calm and sounded as if she knew what she was talking about, who said among other things that North Korea has a 'very high' literacy rate, good health service and gender equality, but tat there was a lot of unemployment and women were now hustling, trading and bartering in the markets.
Sounded convincing to me, certainly the literacy and health service which were also good in the old communist countries including of course Cuba. I feel a bit ashamed of my flippant post above. Good deadpan journalism can do that to you.
I still wouldn't want to be North Korean though, even with a job or a connection with the regime. That political style has to be a nightmare to live with, especially for one liable to make inappropriate jokes at ill-chosen moments.
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Impressive roof rack on the lead car to carry that portrait!!
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Its Humphs old one. He said he had found a buyer.
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What were the cars ? The hearse had shades of a Cadillac - but was it a commie copy ?
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The hearse was a Russian Zil 41047 I think, the lead car with Humphs roof rack looked like a Zil 4104
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Zero is right, more or less, I think. But the Chinese have made these huge imitation American state limos too, and these ones could easily be Chinese although NK was more in the Soviet camp when there was one... Hand built like Tatras, but they look a hell of a lot less fun to drive. Bet they're thirsty too. On the other hand, probably bomb-proof and bulletproof.
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Its hard to tell, the Zil has looked the same,. more or less since the last major styling upgrade in the early 1970s.
These are the Chinese prestige limos
autonews.gasgoo.com/china-news/president-rides-red-flag-limo-reviewing-parade-tro-091001.shtml
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>> These are the Chinese prestige limos
Yeah, new in 2009. They've been making similar things for decades though, facelifted from time to time. And just as with elderly Rollses, Daimlers, Austin Sheerlines and so on here, hearses which in the nature of things get little use are often highly polished but not recent in original build.
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And shades of Maybach in the rear quarters of that 2009 limo, in fact most of the side view.
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The bumper on the hearse doesn't look quite right for a Zil.
It seems unlikely, but it looks a bit like a Lincoln Continental (1969 or thereabouts). Radiator grille seems different though.
Or maybe it is a Zil...
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Wonder if they're running on winter tyres ?
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Yeah - Sing-Along Ditch finders XL.
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tinyurl.com/clr48xx
Well, someone else thinks they were using Lincolns. (Early 1970s, it says.)
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Have to say it looks that way.
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He croaked in 1973, but we've only just been told.
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1975/76 Lincoln Continentals....
thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/28/at-funeral-of-kim-jong-il-u-s-made-limos-stand-out/
I had thought that they might be Chinese car, like the Hangqi state limos.
Bit ironic, travelling to your mausoleum in a car made by the Great Satan !
Sorry, that should read ' on a car ' he went on the roof rack !
Ted
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Urrrh, whadever... so much for experting anyway. It's true I haven't had an informed eye for top-end Detroit iron after 1970.
Reassuring I suppose that the North Koreans did the sensible and cheap thing by buying a real Lincoln rather than the difficult expensive thing by making an inferior pastiche of one like the Chinese and Soviet Russians (the first Zis was a pastiche of a late 30s Packard, very imposing looking). I'm sure they could have made one of those themselves if they wanted, but it would have cost them.
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Just watched the vids - they really need to get out more don't they ?
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Dear Leader croaks. - CGNorwich
