Apologies for lowering the tone of the forum, but one of our loos isn't flushing. This is it:
i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae173/focushj/07122011110.jpg
When you turn the handle, the white lever inside also turns ok - that's not loose - and it lifts the plunger thing out of the plastic thing underneath (stop me if I'm getting too technical). You can hear some water being displaced, but it doesn't turn into a proper flush.
It's been getting progressively worse over the last few months; yesterday was when it finally stopped working altogether.
Is it something I'm likely to be able to fix myself, or is a plumber required?
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The diaphram in the syphon has probably failed, the symptom of it getting steadily worse is a classic sign.
Replaced as a complete unit.
Last edited by: Skip on Wed 7 Dec 11 at 13:17
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Easy job to replace, providing you can turn the water off and have access to sufficient tools.
www.screwfix.com/p/opella-dual-flush-siphon/20824
I would suggest that you also buy one of these as the chances are the old one may leak if you reuse it.
www.screwfix.com/p/wc-close-coupling-kit/84958
The only difficult bit is if you have a bad back, twisting under the toilet to undo the old nuts and then lifting up the old cistern.
Are plumbers cheaper than physios:)
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Definitely buy a new donut - close coupling kit.
Reused ones often leak.
Replacing the siphon is a relatively simple job, but a plumber told me getting the reassembled toilet watertight can be tricky, even for a pro.
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>> but a plumber told me getting the
>> reassembled toilet watertight can be tricky, even for a pro.
It can be our new wet room.
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I believe part of the problem is many cisterns have bolts through the base to hold the cistern to the pan.
Each of these bolts is a potential leak point, as is the donut.
Might be wise to have some silicone sealant or Plumbers' Mate to hand before starting the job.
Last edited by: Iffy on Wed 7 Dec 11 at 14:32
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Cheapskate way:
Remove flush unit from pan.
Unhook the link rod from the top of the pink bit poking out from the siphon bit.
The rod and the platform will then fall out of the bottom of the unit.
On the top of the platform will be a split/perished/damaged bit of polythene, held down with a grommet/washer or similar.
Remove old polythene, find a bit of new stuff about the same thickness, use old one as template and cut out.
Reassemble, using Vaseline as an aid to sealing and lubrication.
Cost? Nowt.
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Even cheaperskate way:
Keep a bucket of water next to the crapper.
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Looks like some rust around the wall fittings. Haven't you been greasing them?
;>)
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Weird. We have exactly the same issue in reverse. The hardware looks exactly the same as that picture, but ours won't fill, or rather it will fill over a period of about an hour.
Any suggestions as to why not? The water tap is fully open of course, but hardly any gets in, just a few drips. It's been there since April 2002, a sticker inside tells me, and working until recently.
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Is it fed directly from the mains - or just low pressure cold water from your cold water storage?
If the latter chances are the rubber diaphram in the inlet valve has hardened/ stuck . Is there a cut off compression style stop valve inline to the inlet that is turned off?
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I knew this was going to get beyond me in a second and half flat.
Mains v cold water pressure. No clue. It's downstairs and there's a copper pipe feeding it that disappears into the floor. It's not a very fat pipe. No, I can do better than that, come along Crankcase. It's "small bore". *looks proud*
As to the compression inline valve stopper thingy question - there's a little tap on the copper pipe that turns on or off, if that's what you mean, and it feels smooth and opens fully.
Sounds like I might need to buy a replacement set of innards, but I can feel an expensive plumber coming along, to match the expensive electrician that's coming tomorrow to fix all the downstairs lights the builder broke last week (oh sorry, not broke - uncovered an existing problem so not his responsibility, sorry).
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>> ours won't fill, or rather it will fill over a period of about an hour
>> Any suggestions as to why not? The water tap is fully open of course, but hardly any gets in, just a few drips
A bit of dirt is blocking the very small rubber nozzle inside the valve. Turn the water supply off, unscrew the white thumbwheels you can see in the picture and remove piece of grit, reassembly is the reverse of removal.
Doing myself out of a job here :)
And agreed on the OP's problem, I find a piece of fertiliser sack is about the right thickness and flexibility. If you're anywhere near Leicester I'll come and take a look if you like?
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Wed 7 Dec 11 at 17:03
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Re the one taking an hour to fill? Mains or gravity fed? I know the answer to that one, its is gravity fed from the loft in the roof, but someone has fitted the valve for the mains pressure one.
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As the owner of a succession of combi-equipped properties, I didn't know potties were anything other than mains fed.
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>> As the owner of a succession of combi-equipped properties, I didn't know potties were anything
>> other than mains fed.
>>
>>
>>
It's either - or.
Advantage of feeding from your cold tank (if you have one) is that you get more than one flush if your water goes off!
You do need the correct restrictor fitted.
8o)
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Given it was working until recently we can probably eliminate mains pressure parts on a grav feed system.
We had similar issue in our ensuite. Cistern fills through a thin walled flexible hose, probably designed to reduce noise. Problem was this being clogged over time with grit and limescale. Water off, dismantle, clean in descaler and re-assemble.
Good as new.
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AH I missed the working till recently bit.
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>>Problem was this being clogged over time with grit and
>> limescale.
Ah, the joys of living in the South, hard water that has been recycled through the sewers a few times. :)
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>> Ah, the joys of living in the South, hard water that has been recycled through
>> the sewers a few times. :)
Ah, the joys of living in the North, peering through the window and wondering if it will ever stop raining :)
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I thought you might need a Pooh-Stick from the thread title!
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Titter ye not!
Anybody familiar with the Mansfield/Sealand dump-through bogs with a large holding tank as used on narrow boats has probably had the pooh stick discussion :-(
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Ah, the joys of living in the North, peeing through the window and wondering if it will ever stop raining :)
>>
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>> Ah, the joys of living in the South, hard water that has been recycled through
>> the sewers a few times. :)
Nothing wrong with London water. It's all been passed by Boris.
Seven times IIRC.
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Nothing wrong with London water. It's all been passed by Boris.
Seven times IIRC.
Since everybody tries to tell me that homeopathetic medicine works - the concentration of the Boris contribution must have some effect!
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I thought it was drinking your own which was supposed to be medicinal not someone else's? Anyway, never fancied it myself and couldn't begin to imagine the taste, although I did once try a pint of McEwan's Export so I might have a rough idea I guess.
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You taking the pis Urophagia.
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>> If you're anywhere near Leicester I'll come and take a
>> look if you like?
Appreciate the offer Dave, but no, we're in Reading.
Will investigate the cheap option before splashing out(!) on new parts - thanks for that MJM.
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I accidentally viewed the picture again and I think that possibly it is not actually a close coupled pan. Therefore you will not need a close coupling kit. However it may be wise to have a flush pipe connector to hand. Rubber always seem better to me than the finned plastic ones.
tinyurl.com/7kwlyjc
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Nope its a standard bog, if it were mine I would bve buying a 15p plastic diaphragm, that's hanging up on the wall down my plumbers merchant, whipping out the syphon assembly and changing the diaphragm. Spot of plumbers mate or a thin smear of fernox leak sealer round the joints and the jobs done.
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I am not that far away focus, I will do it for 75 quid., cash.
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By the time I've made a mess of it and got a local plumber in at emergency rates that will probably sound like a bargain :)
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Cue Zero entering stage from left...
'You should think yourself lucky to have a loo at all, what's wrong with going down the bottom of the garden with a shovel over your shoulder'
Pat
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BTW have checked screwfix* for diaphragms but they don't them.
* you'd love it - 2 within 5 miles here, and got to pop over to one this evening
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>> Nope its a standard bog, if it were mine I would bve buying a 15p
>> plastic diaphragm, that's hanging up on the wall down my plumbers merchant,
>>
Last time I went I was offered a selection of about 20 different shapes and sizes.
"Which one sir! ?"
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>> Last time I went I was offered a selection of about 20 different shapes and sizes
That's the trouble - there are thousands of slightly different designs of siphon, and many different brands are supplied with new cisterns.
These days the siphons are all manufactured in batches in China, so it may well be impossible to buy a flap valve that's an exact match a few years later anyway. The best thing to do is take the old one out and use it as a template to make your own replacement. The job's no harder than changing a car thermostat. (Read into that what you will!) :)
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Thu 8 Dec 11 at 17:37
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having been in the same situation a few years back I found an offcut of pond liner in the shed and used the old diaphram as a template to make a replacement.
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>> The job's no harder than changing a
>> car thermostat. (Read into that what you will!) :)
I read it as justification for ordering a new siphon and the close coupling thing - picking up from Screwfix later this evening :)
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If the toilet water supply cannot be isolated independently of the house supply... I'd not be starting on this job tonight. You turn off the water, take it apart and have the wrong replacement bits.... so how do you put it back together to get the water back on.
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Is there not an isolating valve on the cold water feed to the cistern? It's a requirement on every feed pipe in modern intallations. If not have you the skills to fit one? This allows you to isolate the appliance whilst you work on it.
I also fixed one by cutting a new diaphragm out of a piece of thick polythene. Visqueen I seem to recall.
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Well, mission accomplished, I think, although not quite as smoothly as I'd hoped (unsurprisingly).
No, there wasn't a separate isolating valve for the loo supply, so I did feel under a bit of extra pressure. Got the old siphon out, put the new one in, then the wire attached to the plunger came out. The plunger fell back into the housing and I couldn't pull it back up, so I had to take the siphon off again to push the plunger up from underneath.
Second attempt - tightened everything up and turned the water back on. Steady trickle of water coming out of the bottom of the cistern. Drat.
So got the vaseline from upstairs (as advised by a previous poster?) and applied liberally.
Third attempt - seems to be ok, although I'll be checking it frequently over the next few days.
I did notice when throwing the old siphon away that the rubber o-ring between the base of the siphon and the bottom of the cistern wasn't flat - it had a ridge around the inner circumference to help centre the pipe in the cistern's hole, which the new one didn't have. I think this might have been the problem with the second attempt - the pipe wasn't central, so the seal wasn't very good. I've kept the old o-ring in case water starts leaking out, or I might just fit it anyway when I've recovered.
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>> or I might just fit it anyway when I've recovered.
We all know you will (or should) make sure it's right. Sods law says it springs leak when you're away on holiday otherwise.
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>> We all know you will (or should) make sure it's right.
>>Sods law says it springs leak when you're away on holiday otherwise.
>>
Tell me!
>> Recently unbeknown to me the inlet pipe our loo started to slightly leak.
Eventually found the water had wetted the floorboard which could not expand so bowed up and split the plinth of the pan.
I had to buy and install a whole new ( smaller) suite.
As I found out there is very limited off the shelf choice ( all the others are three week delivery).To add to the fun then attempt to match artex on the wall as the cistern was a new skinny one,.
At least I was at home and have the know how to do the jobl
The unit I got was from B & Q and looks like it is made in France.
The twin button syphon is a complex job with all the many parts of course in plastic.
An interesting design aspect is that a half turn of the syphon and it detaches for ease of servicing, from inside the cistern.
What I do not like is that there are no holes for fixing the cistern to the wall and unlike the UK designs the cistern is bolted to the pan via two holes in its bottom ( a potential future leak source )
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>> I had to buy and install a whole new ( smaller) suite.
Ok ok - but not tonight :)
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>> >> I had to buy and install a whole new ( smaller) suite.
>>
>> Ok ok - but not tonight :)
>>
Tie the ball valve up, flush the loo, shut the doors and get your head down- that noise is the rain outside :-)
You did well. I have had the plunger drop down inside so know the @@@@@@.
The old loo had a very large cistern ( probably twice the size of yours ) that had to be lifted off very very precisely to avoid damage to the aspirator ( dont ask) hanging out of the bottom of the syphon.
I messed this up once. Spares no longer available so I had a devise a very complex tricky
repair.
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...Sods law says it springs leak when you're away on holiday otherwise...
Turning off the water is a wise precaution when you go away, although few people do it.
I always do at the caravan - winter and summer - partly because it's easy, the tap is within easy reach by the front step.
Don't tend to do it at Iffy Towers because the tap is buried under a flap in the back yard.
There should be another indoors, but there isn't.
In common with many older houses, the plumbing is far from standard.
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loo not flushing - Skip
