What is the cheapest way to replace a 28 year old gravity boiler?
I understand it is no longer legal to retrofit like for like and it would need to be a combi boiler. Is this the case?
If so how much modification would be involved in changing it, I assume all existing radiators can be kept but the plumbing would need a lot of modification due to the removal of hot water tank.
Convinced my parents that the 28 year old boiler probably won't last much longer, and is costing them a fortune to run etc so it needs replacing but they don't want the house being turned into a building site.
Also trying to convince them to get a full PIR done, including upgrading of the earth bonding which I know is not up to scratch but not having much joy with that yet!. The wiring is sound but the consumer unit still uses old rewirable fuses and there is a lack of plug sockets, so my idea is to have the ring split into two and adding more sockets in each room. Too many trailing extensions atm are in use.
The wiring has never been inspected since it was rewired over 30 years ago, but it is modern PVC and the lighting circuit is properly earthed etc.
|
"...it is no longer legal to retrofit like for like and it would need to be a combi boiler."
Not quite. In some circumstances an "old-type" boiler (i.e. non-condensing) may be fitted, but the assumption is that any new boiler will be condensing.
A combi is a specific type of boiler - compact, providing both heating and hot water without the need for a storage tank (the sort that sits in the airing cupboard).
You can fit a conventional boiler if you prefer; in this case there are two types of system: pressurised and open-vented. The former will provide heating and hot water stored in a tank, but without any further tanks in the loft. The latter has hot water storage and two further tanks in the loft.
|
Not sure what our system is, the boiler is a Glowarm Spacesaver. There is a cold tank in the loft, and a hot water tank in my room.
I think long term reliability and longevity is going to be more important than running costs which is another reason why we (maybe wrongly) put off by a combi. Our idea would be to simply plumb in a new one in place of the old, which would probably have a lot less labour costs but in reliability I know it won't be that simple. The pumps etc could do with replacing too as they make a racket.
|
New boilers and long term reliability don't seem to go hand in hand. I'm keeping our easily fixable 30 year old one going until it's beyond repair. Passes its MoT every year no probs, although the pump is now on the way out.
I dare say individual circumstances will vary the cost a fair bit, but for guidance we were quoted around 3.5K to fit a combi or 4K for a 'normal' condenser. That's re-using existing rads but moving the boiler to a more suitable location and a bit of re-plumbing. It would take me a hell of a long time to recoup that in lower bills I suspect - probably longer than the new boiler would last.
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Mon 5 Dec 11 at 17:00
|
Someone like Dave_TDCi will hopefully post some advice. I would think there are options that keep the cold and hot water tanks and therefore reduce labour costs. It's more to do with condensing vs non-condensing.
When we had a new boiler in the old house replaced the plumber we used (friend of neighbour) tried to get us to go down the combination boiler type* route and get rid of the tanks in the attic. And the hot water tank in the cellar. Based on boiler prices it was a no brainer to go down the straight replacement route. Boiler was cheaper. And a lot less labour. And in an old house I didn't want to risk a pressurised heating system because radiators in an old house may have leaked!
But options will have changed since we had that boiler put in. Now we have a house with a combination boiler. It is great having hot water soon after turning on a tap. I'd want something similar in my next house.
* I say combi boiler type because I'm not sure you could have a combi boiler big enough for our old house. I think it was actually one that contained a hot water storage tank in the boiler for instant hot water. Whatever they might be called.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 5 Dec 11 at 17:19
|
...New boilers and long term reliability don't seem to go hand in hand...
I've been told the same by a couple of people who ought to know what they are talking about.
One was a qualified boiler engineer, and the other was a private landlord who seems to replace boilers in his flats more often than light bulbs.
So I'm with Spammers, keep the existing one going, even if it means spending a few quid on it.
|
Combi boilers are the work of the devil. Potterton used to do a system which combined a dinky hot water tank and boiler in the same unit.
Absolutely brilliant idea, hot water is under mains pressure and because the boiler is powerful enough to heat the tank quickly, it'll do several showers or a couple of baths without difficulty. Central heating is toasty too.
It's a Powermax HE, and I will be speccing something similar if I ever need a replacement.
|
It's a Powermax HE, and I will be speccing something similar if I ever need a replacement. www.powermax-repairs.co.uk/
Had one of these in a new house in 2005. Had a very long horizontal run in the floor/ceiling void. Dreadful amount of condensate (water) used to tip out of the flue. The text above offers some explanation for that, which I was unaware of at the time. Incidentally, just up the road - same house style and same boiler - the installer forgot to connect the flue elbow in the void above the boiler. Didn't get diagnosed for 18 months. So for 18 months his flue gases were circulated round the floor/ceiling void. Rotted the timbers (hidden by carpet). Also accounted for his frequent, hitherto unexplained, headaches. Builders and installers managed to wriggle out of accountability so no charges brought.
I don't live there any more so know no more - but did become aware that more recently all concealed flues (running in ceiling/floor voids for example) have to have access to them for maintenance.
Wouldn't have another one myself, especially after reading the article. Worked efficiently for the few months I lived there apart from having broken down once in that time.
Last edited by: kb on Mon 5 Dec 11 at 18:02
|
Does anyone know if these regulations apply to boilers/gas appliances vented up chimneys eg back boilers and gas fires??
|
|
No idea but in our old house the floor standing boiler still vented up the chimney.
|
>> Does anyone know if these regulations apply to boilers/gas appliances vented up chimneys eg back boilers and gas fires??
>>
Guidelines, more like.
See previous thread on "New combi boiler":
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=6672&m=148371&v=e
The HSE say
"from 1st January 2013 a Gas Safe registered engineer will advise you that the appliance is "at risk" and, with your permission, will turn off the appliance; they will tell you it should not be used until inspection hatches are fitted so that the flue can be checked for safety."
|
>> It's a Powermax HE, and I will be speccing something similar if I ever need
>> a replacement.
>>
All of the 250 houses in the estate that I live in were built with these boilers. Scottish Gas vans and heating repair vans are a common sight in the area. The boilers vary from eight to fourteen years in age and you can see the replacement combi boiler flues progressing across the area. A good modern combi is 20% more efficient than a Powermax, and as I was getting to know the local Gas engineers too well I replaced mine with a combi last summer. As the condensate drain is internal and insulated I don't foresee any problems. If I do have a problem there is a seven year manufacturers parts and labour warranty. Powermax boilers are great (if inefficient) when they are working but not all parts are still availiable for these boilers.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 6 Dec 11 at 10:04
|
|
Our last house in Amazingstoke had the original 25 year old floor standing boiler, SWMBO nagged about replacement, finally gave in and replaced with a wall mounted one (this was just before the 'thou wilt fit a condensing boiler' edict). 10 months in it needed a circuit board replacement, a year later it was playing up again. Moved house before it conked out completely - no that wasn't the main reason for moving house ;-).
|
I don't know what we've got but it drives me nuts.
It's on a wall in a cupboard, we haven't got a tank anywhere and it takes about 3 hours before the hot water reaches the kitchen tap.
By that time I've washed my hands in cold water anyway:(
No wondered the metered water rates are high.
Pat
|
>> By that time I've washed my hands in cold water anyway:(
>> No wondered the metered water rates are high.
Sounds like a combi then. Yes it takes a little while for hot water to flow. And if you know you won't wait for the hot water then don't use the hot tap. Briefly firing up the boiler and not letting it continue for a bit has it's toll I am told (diaphragm or something?).
I wonder what you mean by high metered water rates. We have a meter and it costs about £50 per month less than the old house which didn't have a meter. Yes that's £50 per month. Same occupancy (mostly the two of us at the moment).
A unit of water (1000 litres) is about £2.50 I think all in.
|
In our old house the options for hot water were - turn on heating/boiler or immersion to heat the tank. Both costly. I can wait a few minutes for the combi to heat the water I need.
Washing the cat bowl for example needs hot water. Suppose we could have boiled a kettle for that in the old house. But cleaning the kitchen or bathroom needed the entire tank warming basically.
This house is costing us a lot less per month for water (£50), council tax (~£50), gas, electric...
|
I'm paying £36 per month for water and I've had the meter checked out by Anglian Water and there is no fault with it.
I do water the hanging baskets and tubs every day in the summer though:)
Pat
|
>> I'm paying £36 per month for water
Nearly double what we pay at the moment! A unit is 1 cubic metre of water, so one litre. We're with United Utilities.
|
I'm with United Utilities and I stopped paying monthly a couple of years ago when they wanted £30 per month. I kept the direct debit but told them I would only pay half yearly. The next bill was zero, and the following one was £32.
The latest bill was £128.00. Most of that was the various charges. Water is actually quite cheap.
|
>>A unit is 1 cubic metre of water, so one litre.
Oh no it isn't!
1 cubic metre of water is one thousand litres
|
Oops missed out the 'thousand' which is what I intended typing. When we got a house with a water meter I was very surprised that 1000 litres is about £2.50!
In my defence I did say earlier in the thread: "A unit of water (1000 litres) is about £2.50 I think all in." The all in reference is because you pay for the water and also have to pay to get rid of it (even if you'd actually not put it all down the drain).
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 5 Dec 11 at 22:01
|
Keep the heating on more as then the water is warmer quicker :) Also some later combis have a 'warm start' thing on the water that means you get hot water faster but it costs you more in gas.
I have an ancient combi and it's great. Did cost a bit to keep working but it just works even if it is flipping cold which is more than most combis manage.
|
|
Reminds me I should put the insulation back on the outside tap.
|
I was reading some where quite recently that condensing boilers have a relatively short life and need replacing every ten years. Apparently, the heat exchanger corrodes and the whole thing has to be replaced.
I had a new boiler installed about ten years ago. It's a Kingfisher fanned flue and is very efficient. Saved a fortune in gas. The old boiler had a pilot light which probably consumed quite a bit being lit 24/7.
|
The newish Worcester Bosch combi in the caravan doesn't have a pilot light.
It self-ignites each time you use hot water or central heating.
|
IME
You can have an old boiler like yours replaced by a condensing "heat only" boiler which gives you the option to keep the plumbing pretty much as it is (give or take pumping the hot water instead of gravity fed).
For instance:
www.gasapplianceguide.co.uk/worcester_cdi_conventional.htm
Thus you can keep the hot water cylinder (and immersion in case of problems).
The item a naughty plumber may omit to fit (which will invalidate boiler makers guarantee) is "pump over-run" wiring from the boiler to the pump/circulator, and any bypass plumbing required so the pump isn't running against closed motorised valve(s) during over-run.
I'm sure a proper heating engineer will be along soon, with wise words...
Edit - I've just re-read your original post, don't do it now, if it's working !
Last edited by: AnotherJohnH on Mon 5 Dec 11 at 18:44
|
>>The item a naughty plumber may omit to fit (which will invalidate boiler makers guarantee) is "pump over-run" wiring from the boiler to the pump/circulator, and any bypass plumbing required so the pump isn't running against closed motorised valve(s) during over-run.
>>
My old balanced flue boiler has an overrun built in.
My plumber included a very simple idea re the bypass.
The pipework splits three ways - one each to the H/W and C/H motorised valves and the third goes to a conventional crutch handled valve. The plumber adjusted the amount it was open and then removed the T handle so it was not messed with, accidentally or otherwise.
I thought this was a very neat, inexpensive solution to the need.
|
>> The item a naughty plumber may omit to fit (which will invalidate boiler makers guarantee)
>> is "pump over-run" wiring from the boiler to the pump/circulator, and any bypass plumbing required
>> so the pump isn't running against closed motorised valve(s) during over-run.
As most boilers have had pump overrun for the last 15 years thats unlikely, and if you have a three way zone valve you dont need bypass plumbing.
|
>> As most boilers have had pump overrun for the last 15 years thats unlikely,
>> and if you have a three way zone valve you dont need bypass plumbing.
We are talkng about a 26/7 year old installation.
My old boiler (twin of Rattles) did not have it.
The comment about naughty plumbers is based on experience.
Last edited by: AnotherJohnH on Mon 5 Dec 11 at 22:34
|
|
I self ignite when she keeps turning the stat up.
|
>> I was reading some where quite recently that condensing boilers have a relatively short life
>> and need replacing every ten years. Apparently, the heat exchanger corrodes and the >>whole thing
>> has to be replaced.
>>
I think there were particular issues with boiler designs where cheapskate manufacturers just took a non condensing boiler and bunged the cheapest heat exchanger(IIRC) on it to meet the new regs., and these have a particularly poor reputation for corrosion.
On 'ground up' condensing designs 'd be more worried about the control electronics, much the same as a modern car really.
|
>>> the boiler is a Glowarm Spacesaver.
Same boiler type/make as in the house we hope to be our new place before too long. I know boilers/central heating well and it will not be replaced until it has a major failure.... it could well still be there when we sell the house again in 7-10yrs.
Just get a local GasSafe fitter to give it a £45 check over each year and stop worrying about failure.
|
>>Just get a local GasSafe fitter to give it a £45 check over
Some modest prices available in the Fens...
|
>>What is the cheapest way to replace a 28 year old gravity boiler?
>>
I suspect there is lots of life left in it. Cost of replacement vs savings needs to be carefully checked out.
By gravity I assume you mean the primary circuit i.e. hot water.
IMO It would be normal to change to pumped primary which gives you much more flexibility and faster warm up of stored hot water.
If you replace with a non combi boiler the plumbing changes are not that involved. I would expect sucked teeth and " You should have a new cylinder!"
I would not worry about the state of the electrics but swopping to MCBs for the power circuits as I said before is soooo quick and simple. Extra sockets is another story.
|
I'm no expert on these things but i think the savings theory is a bit like some of the motoring discussions we have here.
Spending several thousand pounds to replace a perfectly serviceable item that saves you one or two hundred pounds a year running costs....assuming it does what it say on the tin and isn't 'proved' in ideal unreal conditions, factor in how complicated the new one will be and how possibly expensive in parts and constant maintenance of the super economy model and it's even less clear cut..
I'm fairly sure the free standing Potterton in my old house was some 35 years old when it finally sprung a leak (no electrics worth worrying about) scrapping it...similar replacement bought for seriously cheap price from TP who discounted heavily for cash, fitted in kitchen near back wall kept the kitchen toasty warm all winter.
|
Quite right, GB.
I’ve got a very simple and incredibly reliable floor mounted Ideal Standard boiler that was installed in 1976. It played up a bit earlier this year, but apart from that, it’s been virtually trouble free.
I don't like the sound of these new-fangled boilers that only last about ten years and throw a wobbly when the weather gets cold.
|
"... throw a wobbly when the weather gets cold."
My understanding is that the reason so many condensing boilers play up when the weather gets cold is that they have, in fact, been fitted incorrectly as regards one small but crucial detail.
The narrow-bore (25mm) pipe normally used to carry away the condensate (i.e. the water from the exhaust gases) should be protected from frost. If it is not, it will freeze and block itself; the boiler will sense a fault and stop working.
When I had one of these boilers fitted I insisted that the drain pipe was routed through the wall from the garage and connected to the washbasin waste pipe in the downstairs cloakroom. Next door, an identical house with a new condensing boiler fitted a short while before mine by the same heating engineer, the drain was routed directly outside, with inevitable consequences.
A clever solution, if there is no option but to route the drain straight outside, is to fit a large diameter (40mm) pipe; the trickle of water normally passed through may freeze, but it won't block the pipe.
|
|
Absolutely right - we had one of these new style combis on an empty house last winter - the heating was run through the winter - not a problem, because the drain was correctly fitted.
|
Our house is just 6 years old and we have an open vented system, but the boiler is condensing.
Its a Gloworm 18HXi. Warms up very quickly and appears to be cheap to run - we pay £48 a month for gas and its a largish (by new build standards) detached house in a windy coastal area. House is often occupied during the day, and there are 7 of us so plenty of hot water consumed.
I would say though that the boiler has broken down a few times - we have one of those british gas contracts so always gets fixed quickly. First repair was a PCB had burnt out - cost would have been £250 and the boiler was only about 2 years old at the time.
British gas guy told me these boilers were "OK" but not the best. Told me there are the same ones they fit themselves under their own name
|
|
28 years old and still going . how many things can you say that about. keep it running till you die
|
>>>28 years old and still going . how many things can you say that about.
The 39yr old hi-fi amp I've just sold... faultless sound at that age and never repaired.
|
>> >>>28 years old and still going . how many things can you say that about.
>>
>> The 39yr old hi-fi amp I've just sold... faultless sound at that age and never
>> repaired.
>>
Mrs B is 32and shes still going strong
|
|
Its actually 26-27 years old, a miss calculation on my part. Still impressive though, all its needed is valve for the pilot light, a pump and a new timer.
|
|
Leave it til next Spring, y'all don't wanna be faffing about with new broilers this time of year.
|
We're thinking of having our boiler replaced at the moment.
We have a 22 year old back boiler which is costing £100 a month to run and there are only the two of us here. All the houses on the estate are the same age with the same type pf boiler and two immediate neighbours have had theirs pack up this year, a third had theirs replaced because of continual problems so we figure we are on borrowed time. One had a combi boiler fitted and reckons their bills halved, the two who had condensing boilers say their bills have gone down by about a third (we're all on Calor Gas).
I've been quoted £2500 from one guy (recommended) and I'm waiting for another quote to come in. I can't decide whether combi or condensing, I'd prefer longevity to a slight reduction in bills. I could just wait for ours to pack up, but I'm in the position now of being able to comfortably afford the replacement which I might not be a few years down the line.
|
" I can't decide whether combi or condensing"
The two are not the same thing at all - but commonly mixed up!
Most boilers now are condensing, eg the flue gas temperature is taken down to the point where it begins to condense, thus recovering a lot of heat that would otherwise be wasted. This pushes the overall efficiency to 90+ %. The downsides are that you need a condensate drain, and the exchanger might be short lived, as the condensate is acidic (it's saturated with CO2 which dissociates to acid species in the water), and there is a large plume of steam from the flue.
A combi boiler is a type of boiler which switches between heating and hot water - there is no hot water storage, it is only produced on demand. A combi boiler will almost certainly be condensing these days - and it is these that probably give the best hike in efficiency as there is a ready supply of cold water to cool the flue gas when you are operating in hot water mode. The advantage to combi is that they're cheap and the overall installation is compact. The downside is that they are complex and reliability is so-so, and the plumbers tend to condemn them when a pretty minor fault occurs.
You can now buy a condensing, room sealed, back boiler from Baxi. But - you need a new twin pipe flue liner, and they are eye-wateringly expensive. If you've got somewhere to put it, going wall hung is likely to be cheper overall (unless you end up spending £2k on putting in a wood burner where the back boiler was, like we did....!)
|
Yeah won't be touched till the summer, I think the best thing is probably to get it checked out and serviced and leave at that.
Difficult to get a proper opinion though, if we ask them is it ok they might say no its not just to try and sell a new boiler.
As for the electrics, I know our consumer unit is fine how it is, but if more sockets are added a PIR will need to be done anyway, and new sockets will need RCD protection, so it makes a lot more sense just to change the consumer unit to one which complies with the 17th edition.
|
We had a gravity system for years but I was fortunate enough to buy a Potterton boiler, only a few months old, for £200 from the builder who was working next door. My neighbour also bought one.
The builder had bought a house split into five flats and 5 Pottertons came with it. He was converting it to a family home.
Our bills have been very much reduced by the change to the combi. The water takes a minute or two to come hot but we're not on a meter. My SiL fitted it for £200 plus materials and he moved the location to a better spot.
A big bonus to me was getting rid of the tanks which were in the loft. I was not happy about the grandkids sleeping directly under the hot tank after reading of a child being scalded to death after a major burst. I'd already repaired a leak on the tank round one of the coil pipes so it must have been getting a bit suspect.
We now have no water in the house any higher than the bathroom taps.
Ted
|
I did the same Ted our combi boiler is two years old now.Ideal Isar.Average make.I wanted to get writ of the two tanks in the loft and the emergency tank in the cupboard.
We didn't change any radiators system is running fine.Takes longer to fill the bath but i can live with that.>)
|
>> The water takes a minute or two to come hot but we're not on a meter.
Wouldn't be an issue anyway. One unit is about £2.50 for us and is 1000 litres.
>> A big bonus to me was getting rid of the tanks which were in the loft. I was not happy about
>> the grandkids sleeping directly under the hot tank after reading of a child being scalded to
>> death after a major burst.
A few years before we replace the boiler in the old house the hot water tank in the cellar had a failure and was replaced. Lots of water leaked out. Luckily through the cellar. Current boiler also in a cellar.
|
...The water takes a minute or two to come hot...
I have an old combi in Iffy Towers.
It's installed only a few metres from the kitchen tap, which makes for a tolerable hot water delay.
What might not be so clever is where a combi has been put in an airing cupboard upstairs to replace a traditional boiler.
Inlet water temperature makes a difference - a combi takes a little longer to heat at this time of year.
Despite the delay, heating tanks of water seems quaint in comparison.
|
>>>heating tanks of water seems quaint in comparison.
The heating system we hope to take on is conventional with airing cupboard, tank with backup immersion and roof mounted header.... thank goodness. The most reliable and simple to repair system.
And where on earth do you air your clothes with no airing cupboard? Many houses we looked at had combi replacements in the middle of the previous airing cupboard... very thankful none of them were the eventual choice.
In Rattle's case the simple calculation is that the replacement boiler will cost about 10x the yearly savings. For us it would be about 8x so once the old boiler major faulted it would be changed like a shot... but not until that point..... and still not a combi.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 6 Dec 11 at 08:08
|
At the risk of sparking the inevitable, I've had good service from several combis over the years, including the two I currently own.
I imagine a combi would provide some airing in an airing cupboard.
As regards airing clothes in Iffy Towers, two of the rooms have open fireplaces which draw air, even when not lit.
A bit of warmth in the room makes clothes air quite well.
|
>>>two of the rooms have open fireplaces which draw air, even when not lit. A bit of warmth in the room makes clothes air quite well.
How very 1950s. Seriously I've nothing against combis as such, they're reliability is little different to a new A-rated boiler in non-combi mode.
It really is just the airing cupboard thing.
BTW water useage is mentioned above. Genuinely shocked to have moved from the monthly unmetered Fen water payment of about £6/mth to £56/mth in this metered rental place!
Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 6 Dec 11 at 08:39
|
...How very 1950s...
More like 1890s.
As I've remarked before, what I really need is a houseboy to set the fires at about 3pm so the house is warm for the master's return from work.
|
Shirley having tanks of water stuck up in the loft (where we have 10" of insulation, hopefully) should go the way of semaphore indicators & starting handles,
We had a Glowworm Hideaway (with pilot light) at the old owse, so I decided to change - the house :)
Now got a Grant (oil) combi which actually stores about 30 ltrs of wet stuff ready for use, it's not a con-densing broiler though, thankfully, but it is very efficient according to my Oiltec reg. heating engine ear.
|
>>>Shirley having tanks of water stuck up in the loft (where we have 10" of insulation, hopefully) should go the way of semaphore indicators & starting handles,
I like to keep a loft tank... many a happy hour snatched reading my old car and hi-fi mags in the loft with the excuse of "checking the tank". Never make to too easy for them to follow you... never a smart loft ladder... stick to wobbly stepladder and they don't follow.
If our current plans work out in a few weeks adding 8" loft insulation to the existing 4" will be a first job. They are virtually giving the stuff away at the moment... £3/roll for 200mm at B&Q... buy one get four free at Wickes.
|
Does anyone actually 'air' clothes anymore?
I thought that went out with dryers, a good hot iron and a Fen blow.
Contrary to popular belief, wearing damp clothes doesn't give you a cold:)
Pat
|
>>>Does anyone actually 'air' clothes anymore
Well as you can tell we do.
You need to take stuff out of the tumble dryer just short of baked dry or it shrinks and a steam iron leaves a trace of damp.... and I hate damp pants.
And of course we've left the Fen wind behind us now.
|
"...a steam iron leaves a trace of damp.... and I hate damp pants."
I am speechless. Do you iron jeans as well? Socks? Or are you American?
Ironing pants, indeed.
|
>> Ironing pants, indeed.
Probably more of a concern to females but I'm told fungal spores survive a 30 degree wash.
A touch from a hot iron sees them off..............
|
Funnily enough - I like loft-life as well, I discovered that quirk way back in the early 90's
Trouble is that all the insulation up there these days makes it difficult to move around,
I suppose the ideal thing would be to convert the loft and have a stairway that one could retract when one was 'incommunicado', as it were :D
|
...If our current plans work out in a few weeks adding 8" loft insulation to the existing 4" will be a first job...
I'm sure you know this, but don't insulate too much, don't want the tank to freeze.
The occasional covering of ice wouldn't matter, but enough to cause a rupture of the tank would be a bit more than a nuisance.
|
>> I'm sure you know this
Whoever insulated my loft clearly didn't, as they did a very neat and tidy job directly beneath the header tank.
|
>>Whoever insulated my loft clearly didn't, as they did a very neat and tidy job directly beneath the header tank<<
They even put a layer of insulation under the water tank in our previous obode :(
|
Yep proper method something like this...
lh4.googleusercontent.com/-RrgFwe2SqlI/TYFNaOdacwI/AAAAAAAABL8/ruTy_2oAfe0/Advice+on+loft%252Btank+insulation.gif
Actually I usually just continue the loft insulation up and over the tank/pipes with a string lightly tied round to keep it in place.
|
>>Yep proper method something like this...<<
That's what I ended up with in the end + the Glowworm was right underneath, in the kitchen airing cupboard.
|
>> Yep proper method something like this...
>>
>> lh4.googleusercontent.com/-RrgFwe2SqlI/TYFNaOdacwI/AAAAAAAABL8/ruTy_2oAfe0/Advice+on+loft%252Btank+insulation.gif
>>
The lid should be of the sealed type if you can get the proper one.
Plus a Bye Law 30 kit fitted. ( They are very cheap and easy to fit )
The vent pipe has a grommet where it goes through the lid plus overflow and new breather have filters on them.All crud and or insects should then be kept out.
My tanks have had a jacket sized for both my header and main tank.
I raised both muy tanks on a stand so insulation is a bit more complicated.
|
>>>I raised both muy tanks on a stand so insulation is a bit more complicated.
For shower water pressure?
|
>> >>>I raised both my tanks on a stand so insulation is a bit more complicated.
>>
>> For shower water pressure?
>>
Indead. The stand is about five feet high along with 22mm pipes, a reduced number of elbows and a high flow Aqualisa control / larger bore shower flexible hose gives a very nice consistent wetting shower.
What I have not retro fitted on the old hot water cylinder is a Surrey flange as I was too wary about removing the old fittings.
There is obviously a delay in the flow as the shower is on the ground floor so not sure how much water is saved over a bath.
|
>>
>> And where on earth do you air your clothes with no airing cupboard? Many houses
>> we looked at had combi replacements in the middle of the previous airing cupboard... very
>> thankful none of them were the eventual choice.
>>
That's what puts me off having a combi in Spamcan Towers, our present hot water tank sits in what amounts to a walk in cupboard upstairs between the bathroom and a bedroom. There's just enough space in front of it for a clothes airer, plus rack space above it. Means we very very rarely have to tumble dry anything.
|
After some problems with our Grant oily this Autumn had a an interesting chat with the plumber (for he is one) he was saying that the latest ideal set-up with a combi is to have a stand alone stainless steel tank in a cupboard with a "store" of hot water in it, he was surprised that this the RP hovel didn't have one in fact. Far more efficient he reckons.
This house has two boiler driven showers - he expressed his surprise that the house didn't have at least one that was heated by electrics to provide a "stand-by" so to speak.
|
>>> two boiler driven showers - he expressed his surprise that the house didn't have at least one that was heated by electrics
Yes that's what we did in the old house and plan to do again. In the rare event of a gas supply or boiler issue it's good to have an instant alternative... well that was my thinking for a working parent/college kids household.
|
>
>> Difficult to get a proper opinion though, if we ask them is it ok they
>> might say no its not just to try and sell a new boiler.
>>
Yes could be tricky getting an unbiased opinion, and I doubt if even a gas boiler guru can accurately tell if a 20+ year old boiler will last another 6 months or 6 years. Our 50 quid a year service includes checking the CO(?) emissions and a printout of efficiency (not quite sure of what) so at least we have some quantitative measure of the boiler's operation.
|
The answer to the ole airing cupboard question is a bumble fryer!
We inherited a Whirlpool 6kg jobbie when we moved ere, never had one b4 but, would never be without one now,
even bung the wet towels in every morn = brill!
|
>> 28 years old and still going . how many things can you say that about.
>>
>>
Rayburn about 50 years old.
gas cooker 76 years old.
Prestcold fridge 57
Frigidaire about 60
|
Wow, is your TV made by Logie himself? :D
Not sure what the oldest appliance is in our house, it would be the boiler if that is counted as an appliance. The fridge is a late 90's example but that is on its way out now.
I suppose the C64 is the oldest electrical item in the house but that is hardly used, its 1.1Mhz (ish) processor and 64kb of RAM is a bit useless with Facebook.
My sister does have a 1979 Pionneer amp which was given to me as a known collector of HIFI, my sister had an awful Goodmans mini system at the time so I gave he the Pioneer some ten years ago and she loves it, is a real talking point for her mates as it is not normal to find a 1970's HIFI amp in a young females tiny flat.
As for water tanks, well I now have something else to worry about, I sleep right next to the hot water tank! Although hopefully by the time I get to the sleep the water in it won't be that hot.
All we have in the loft is a cold water tank
|
|
Our condensing boiler is on the kitchen wall easy to reach for a service.I'm happy if the boiler last ten years.I am not sure yet about changing all the radiators we've had them for 27 years.Touch wood not of them are leaking yet.;)
|
The Aga in our kitchen was installed in 1961, some 10 years before I was born. The house was rewired in the mid/late eighties as far as I can tell, and despite having had a reasonable amount of work done in the last couple of years (new kitchen, bathrooms, extra sockets etc) there's been no pressure from the electricians to rewire or replace the consumer unit.
We replaced an ancient Potterton Netaheat boiler earlier in the year (it had packed up; not just for the sake of it) and took the opportunity to replace the vented hot water cylinder with an unvented one; breifly considered a combi, but was advised that with multiple bathrooms it wasn't necessarliy the best option. AFAIK despite having pressurised hot water the heating system is still unpressurised; at least, I'm sure that it still has a header tank. Our back up hot water is just an immersion element in the cylnder - no electric shower. Fingers crossed!!
As far as I can tell our gas bill is down by about half; in part due to a more efficient boiler an in part from disconnecting the Aga from the hot water, but I'l wait 'til then end of winter to judge...
Peter
|
In our old house, the boiler I mentioned replaced an old (converted to gas) oil fired boiler. Very old. In the cold weather it used to not come on or turn itself off. You'd have to go down to it and reset it - several times.
We also had the cold water feeder tank on stilts in the loft. I assume this was because the hot water tank was in the cellar. We had reasonable pressure from the hot water taps.
|
Boiler options and also electrics - FocalPoint
