My thanks to those of you who contributed your thoughts to my previous topic - "Getting the best from oil fired central heating"
I'm now set on exploring the idea of removing the old analogue room temperature thermostat from the kitchen/diner and buying a wireless digital thermostat with fixed receiver - for greater more sophisticated control.
Does anyone have experiencce of one of these working with oil central heating (fully pumped heating circuit/gravity hot water supply)
All I want is a reliable unit that doesn't run away with the oil.
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Does the fact that it's oil fired matter?
We've recently changed to a wireless programmable thermostat for our gas fired system, and we like it. It's one of these:
www.honeywelluk.com/products/Systems/Wireless/CM927/
The receiver is plugged into our old control unit, so the water is still on the old off/once/twice/on mechanism. The heating is just left on the 'on' setting, so that it is controlled by the thermostat.
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My dad fitted Heatmiser thermostats to his place - multiple zones, solar water heating, underfloor heating, you name it - oil fired and working very nicely.
www.heatmiser.co.uk/web/index.php/wireless-thermostat-series
I have just the one in my flat but again, works fine.
Last edited by: Fursty Ferret on Thu 10 Nov 11 at 21:31
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>> All I want is a reliable unit that doesn't run away with the oil.
>>
Whilst moving the thermostat will provide a bit of fine tuning, the oil consumption will be largely driven by the level of insulation, not the thermostat.
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Thu 10 Nov 11 at 21:42
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>> Whilst moving the thermostat will provide a bit of fine tuning, the oil consumption will
>> be largely driven by the level of insulation, not the thermostat.
>>
Agree with that. I have a wireless programmable thermostat, an excellent bit of kit but increasing my loft insulation from 4 to 12 inches made a huge difference to the boiler burn duration and frequency.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 10 Nov 11 at 21:54
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Sorry to "slightly" hijack/drift this thread but it seems an appropiate place to re-ask the question that was asked about this time last year! - Is anyone going to be leaving thier heating on 24/7 again this year in an attemp to "save money"?
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Mine is "on" 24/7, the set temperature varies throughout the day and night between 7C and 21C. This is recommended by the boiler manufacturer to reduce the expense of cold startups. the boiler also modulates is output depending on demand, as the TRVs shut down it reduces its power output.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 10 Nov 11 at 22:45
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We have a Grant boiler in the new place - just been serviced and had PCB replaced - due to a fault. The plumber that came says that the best thing is to leave the boiler on constant for hot water and to control the heating from the thermostat. I don't like being cold but on the other hand don't like being too warm. Temp is a little warm in the lounge of an evening atm. The plumber says he is very disappointed in the current boiler range from Worcester/Bosch, reliability issues.
The house has a large built in k glass glazed conservatory which is more or less south facing, any sun warms this a treat and due to the open upstairs "balcony" the warmth generated here convects upstairs, you can open the downstairs doors to the glass area to moderate the heat in there - brilliant trick.
Last edited by: R.P. on Fri 11 Nov 11 at 08:22
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>>The plumber that came says<<
Eh, that would be a heating engineer then,
We also have a Grant oil broiler - excellent piece of kit, and very energy efficient.
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No, in fairness he's an old fashioned timeserved plumber but is a boiler tech as well. As he says there's more money in boiler work, and as he says even more in commercial/industrial applications.
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Is he sure about keeping the hot water on all the time? Haven't heard that one before.
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Combi boilers are always "on" for hot water, unless totally switched off, if there are no taps on the boiler does not fire. However my combi has a programmable pre heat mode for hot water which keeps about three liters of water hot for rapid supply to the taps. I only have this mode on during the morning shower / breakfast period.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 11 Nov 11 at 09:05
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I'm a newcomer to combi boilers and we have Grant oil fired jobbie, this one is designed to always have around 20 ltrs of hot water stored in the boiler for instant use 24/7, which means it fires up in the daytime, even in the summer, whether you use it or not!, funny idea really, b'cos that's what combi's do anyway - give you instant hot water,
I didn't like that idea as I hate to see money going up the spout, so I called in an electrician to see if he could rewire the critter so I could just have it fire up when I want,
He spent about alf an hour here but said the only way he could do it would be to run a wire from the heating/water control unit to the boiler (which lives outside)
I said I'd think about it, so I did, and when I nosed around the little cupboard that houses the heating/water control unit and the fuse box etc., I found a little switch, so, I switched it orf, and now the boiler only fires up when I want it to,
But, I do have other forms of heating such as an 8kw (max) multi-fuel stove, so this 'trick' wouldn't suit many others, also, I woud leave the boiler switched on during the coming 'winter tyre weather', or the critter would freeze up due to me deactivating the frost protection!
We do things differently here in Cornwall, see.
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>> heat mode for hot water which keeps about three liters of water hot for rapid
>> supply to the taps. I only have this mode on during the morning shower
A 3 litre shower? Its not war time you know ON, I have more than three litres in my car washer bottle!
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He's ex Submarines - water was short !
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>> A 3 litre shower? >>
:-P
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>>Is he sure about keeping the hot water on all the time? Haven't heard that one before.
Focus, I did a very "scientific " experiment last year where I monitored my gas usage on my new boiler depending on whether water was left on 24 hours, timed etc and same with heating.
This proved to me that, indeed, the most efficient way was to have water on 24 hours (which the plumber had told me but I didn't believe).
I think its a bit of boil a kettle from scratch compared to a water urn that just tops up heat when required.
Heating on the other hand can be more of a personal decision - yes if you use a timer it may use less power than 24/7 thermostat control but it depends on whether you like constant tremperature, how long it takes to heat up etc etc.
I will try and find that thread..
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Thanks Bobby. I can see the figures back up your theory, although as pointed out in the thread it would be nice to see the corresponding temperatures for that period. It still doesn't feel right...
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>> Thanks Bobby. I can see the figures back up your theory, although as pointed out
>> in the thread it would be nice to see the corresponding temperatures for that period.
>> It still doesn't feel right...
>>
Seems to defy the laws of physics, but not worth exercising to much brain power on ;-).
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It's NOT cheaper to leave heating on all day. We asked the Energy Saving Trust and it says it's an urban myth that it's cheaper to leave it on all day rather than set it for an hour before you get up and get home.
Source money saving ex-spurt.
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>> It's NOT cheaper to leave heating on all day.
Presumably they're talking about a constant temperature setting though. With a programmable thermostat you leave the heating on but vary the temperature, so in fact it might end up being the same as the 'normal' twice a day.
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>> Presumably they're talking about a constant temperature setting though. With a programmable thermostat you leave
>> the heating on but vary the temperature, so in fact it might end up being
>> the same as the 'normal' twice a day.
>>
Thats what mine does, it is at 20C from 6:30 to 9:30, then drops to 16C (which the house never drops to, so effectively off) until 16:30 and then 21C until 22:30. Then 7C overnight. There are manual overrides for a boost or off.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 16 Nov 11 at 20:07
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>>This proved to me that, indeed, the most efficient way was to have water on 24 hours
>>(which the plumber had told me but I didn't believe).
Absolute rubbish. The reductio ad absurdum is to ask "what would happen if I were to use no hot water at all in a 24 hour period?"
With the water "on" full time then you would have to use power to keep it topped up as the heat leaked out.
With the water "off" full time then you would not have to use any power at all.
No other answer will do.
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>> >>This proved to me that, indeed, the most efficient way was to have water on
>> 24 hours
>> >>(which the plumber had told me but I didn't believe).
>>
>> Absolute rubbish. The reductio ad absurdum is to ask "what would happen if I were
>> to use no hot water at all in a 24 hour period?"
But that does not happen. You are trying to push your steady state nonsense again. There is no such thing outside a lab.
>> With the water "on" full time then you would have to use power to keep
>> it topped up as the heat leaked out.
Yes, but that could be less power than to allow it to leak out over a more extended time
>> With the water "off" full time then you would not have to use any power
>> at all.
Vacation - thats the only time you have it off full time
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"You are trying to push your steady state nonsense again."
It is not 'steady state nonsense'. I'm with mapmaker. It is how you neatly prove a point
of physics in a simple way avoiding having to give a more complicated explanation, which I will now attempt to give.
Purely on a question of heat loss, a tank at working temperature is losing more heat per second than one that is less hot. So, by allowing the tank to cool until needed it will have lost less energy, over that period of time, than if it had been kept at working temperature.
If you now put that lost amount of energy back into the tank, plus the heat being lost while warming it up, it will be at working temperature again. And, as I have just proved the whole of the heat energy loss, from the tank, during that time, will have been less than if the tank had been maintained at working temperature for the whole time. So energy will have been saved. Whether you would be worried about such a loss, is another point.
Sorry zero, your excellent computer expertise is not always up to scratch on these sort of fundamental problems.
Last edited by: busbee on Wed 16 Nov 11 at 18:24
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>>The plumber says he is very disappointed in the current boiler range from Worcester/Bosch,
>> reliability issues.
>>
>>
Good job my WB boiler has a seven year parts and labour warranty, They must be as confident of the build quality as KIA are with my car. The authorized installer of my boiler said they had few problems with the WB boilers, but they would wouldn't they. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 11 Nov 11 at 08:41
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>> >>The plumber says he is very disappointed in the current boiler range from Worcester/Bosch,
>> >> reliability issues.
>> >>
Funnily enough someone was moaning about reliability of recent WB boilers over on uk.d-i-y yesterday, although generally they still seem well regarded.
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In this rental place we have a wireless programmer/thermostat. Seems you can set up to 6 daily on/off/temp periods. Far too complex so we just use the manual on/off switch.
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>> Seems you can set up to 6 daily on/off/temp periods.
Ours is like that - yours might be different, but I managed to programme it without looking at the manual. Then very easy to copy to other days.
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Do-able I'm sure but can't be bothered... significant added factor is that this unit is only 50% reliable at shutting down the boiler when it should.... so we have to use the manual off to stop the boiler grinding away all night or when we're out.
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>> Do-able I'm sure but can't be bothered... >>
Mine has three built in heating programmes, I just use one of them, with a manual override if a heating boost is required.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 11 Nov 11 at 15:51
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Erm! fly in thr ointment time! - taken ftom the lead article in todays MSE E-mail:
1. It's NOT cheaper to leave heating on all day. We asked the Energy Saving Trust and it says it's an urban myth that it's cheaper to leave it on all day rather than set it for an hour before you get up and get home.
:walks off innocently:
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>> Erm! fly in thr ointment time! - taken ftom the lead article in todays MSE
>> E-mail:
Raised by Dog further up the thread.
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=8539&m=189659&v=e
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wireless programmable thermostat - Focusless
