| Non-motoring > Eon DD rise. | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Pat | Replies: 53 |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 08:58
Eon DD rise. - Pat
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Would someone check my figures (and my reasoning!) here please before I go head to head with Eon customer services again tomorrow. I have been with Eon for around 8 years and have never had any problems so I'm reluctant to change. I am on Easy Online 4 Dual Fuel Tariff and pay by Direct Debit £96 per month. I had an email to read my meters on Friday and I submitted the readings. A few hours later my new bill was online and I noticed they intend to put my monthly payments up to £126. I am in credit by £134.28 BUT my meter reading was requested almost 2 weeks early (it should have been on 16th November), so another £96 would have normally been received by then. The facts as I see them, though I may be wrong! Eon's prices have risen by 15.2% meaning £96 +15.2% = £110.59 U switch reports that Eon's prices have gone up by an actual 22% but even that would assume £96 + 22% = £117 I make a rise of £30 per month a 28.8% rise on my payments. The online energy tracker for the last 12 months also reports my usage as being down by 23.3%. I'm happy to disregard the energy tracker but I feel it needs to come into the equation. I had a very heated conversation with them on Friday afternoon where they refused to give a satisfactory explanation for disregarding their own energy tracker and failing to explain an increased payment of 28.8% I can switch to NPower but the saving is only £104 per year and for that amount I would really prefer to stay with Eon. Are my figures right, am I being unreasonable or am I being ripped off? Yes, I do know I could pay my bill in full quarterly and leave the money in the bank, but I prefer to do it this way:) Pat |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 09:08
Eon DD rise. - Focusless
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| If you are correct Pat (and I haven't worked it out) then aren't you just going to end up even more in credit, which they will have to pay back in the end at which point you can say 'I told you so'? If you can't afford the increase then of course that's different. |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 09:19
Eon DD rise. - CGNorwich
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| Have been with EON for the past 5 years although have just switched to another supplier to obtain a lower price. To be honest I think you either have to accept their estimates and monthly payments or pay quarterly. I never quite figured how they make their calculations but at the end of the day it all comes out in the wash so easier just to accept their figures. I have to admit that that after the first year their predictions were pretty accurate. |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 09:44
Eon DD rise. - Pat
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CG, I know I may well be the mathematical equivalent to pedantic where money is involved but I really think I should be able to understand their argument for wanting more of mine! I agree it usually comes out right in the end with Eon but once a few years ago they wanted to do a big increas and I called them, and we eventually settled for a compromise figure which did come out right in the end. When I suggested that on Friday ( £112 ) they told me it couldn't be altered and they WOULD be taking the £126 from my account in December which quite frankly, annoyed me. Focus, yes I can afford it but I do feel that any excess is better in my account than theirs. Pat |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 09:50
Eon DD rise. - Zero
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Pat the only way to sort this with Eon is to work it out the way they do. Take your total energy consumption for last year. multiply that by cost per unit. divide by 12. |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 09:51
Eon DD rise. - -
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Our budget payments never seem to make sense but as said it works out over time, the electric use is relatively small and payments stable, gas payments vary more. If we were losing some valuable interest on our money by overpaying then i'd be a bit more bothered, as it is i'd rather be over than underpaying. We'll put up with this as just one of those things as we want to stay with Ebico due to their ethical non profit and simple pricing policy. Incidentally we received a letter from Ebico last week predicting our total costs and usage for the next twelve months from previous figures. Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sun 30 Oct 11 at 09:54
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 10:02
Eon DD rise. - Pat
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>>Take your total energy consumption for last year. multiply that by cost per unit<< This is what frustrates me. They tell me my consumption for last year Electricity 6,464kWh Gas 14,409kWh But not the rate it was charged at for the full last year. They then go on to estimate that I will use this year Gas £552 Electricity £804 So it impossible to make a direct comparrison but this is why I questioned the Energy Tracker showing a reduction in usage over the last 12 months. Bet my BP is high now:) Pat |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 10:07
Eon DD rise. - Zero
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>> But not the rate it was charged at for the full last year. You can work it out yourself, you know how much you paid, you know how much you used. But frankly that doesn't matter, last year is last year, all you want to know is if you are paying the right amount for your consumption for this year. >> They then go on to estimate that I will use this year How many *units* do they estimate, only then can you work out if its more or lass than last year. |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 11:25
Eon DD rise. - Pat
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To make this simple, which is what they should do for the customer, I added up my last four bills which gives me a cost of £1109.75 for the last year. £1109 +15.2% = £1278.43 NOT £1356 as they are estimating. It also gives a monthly payment of £106.53 without taking into account that my usage has gone down which is even further from the £126 per month they are telling me I will pay. So I've answered my own question and it appears that Eon think I'm an idiot and can't understand the way they work it out. Pat |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 11:41
Eon DD rise. - Zero
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Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong you are doing exactly what i said you should not do. You are taking the variables and trying to fix them to a non variable. Its not the same as last year. And you can only claim your usage has gone down if you use the actual units used, NOT the cost of the units. The only way to argue this with the supplier is units consumed (or estimated) x unit price |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 12:14
Eon DD rise. - Zero
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Eon's current cheapest deal appears to be E.ON SaveOnline 10 Electricity Normal units first 900kWh per year 24.15p per kWh Normal units 11.5395p per kWh Gas Normal units first 2680kWh per year 8.34225p per kWh Normal units 4.15275p per kWh Now given your stated consumption last year of Electricity 6,464 kWh - this year should be estimated at = £859.40 Gas 14,409kWh - this year should be estimated at £634.07 total for the year £1,493.47 / 12 = £124.45 Which is very close, very close indeed, to the number they have asked for. |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 14:50
Eon DD rise. - Pat
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No I'm not. I am using the same variable they are using to estimate my usage next year (price not kWh). When I mention that my usage has reduced according to their online energy tracker all they can do is cough and splutter and to the direct question 'Is it innacurate then?', all I get is diversionary tactics. I can't switch to quarterly billing as part of the Save online 4 Dual Fuel plan is monthly DD's. I think Teabelly has hit the nail on the head and it's what I suspected and the reason why I'm splitting hairs with them about it. Pat |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 15:22
Eon DD rise. - teabelly
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When I checked and calculated my usage against their likely charges they were still off. Also after switching and calculating monthly usage and setting my DD from annual usage x kw/h divided by 12 months I was within a few quid all the time and not massively over paying or under paying during the year either. If I'm wrong in my assumptions then over the year I would have been adrift by a large amount as I slashed the gas from 97 to 75 a month and was within a small amount. They've only added £6 a month this time so I know I'm right with that as that covers the increase in gas prices. It was a flipping cold winter and the heating was on a lot too so they were definitely over charging. I strongly believe there is some slight of hand going on. Also the switching sites don't match either. I have switched a few times and the estimated savings have not materialised at all. You save money for about 3 months then they whack the monthly DD up to more than you were paying before! |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 19:41
Eon DD rise. - Zero
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>> No I'm not. >> >> I am using the same variable they are using to estimate my usage next year >> (price not kWh). They estimate your usage for the next year by physical units used, NOT price, Ok a price comes out of it, but its based on units., Do you consider my numbers to be inaccurate then? |
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New Mon 31 Oct 11 04:54
Eon DD rise. - Pat
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Not at all. I'm on Save Online 4 The figures they quote for this are: Electric First 900kWh at 21.98p Next kWh 11.38p Gas: First 2680kWh 7.381p Next kWh 3.211p Direct Debit discount 6% Dual Fuel Discount 2% I agree they estimate my usage in units but they present it to me as a price. To my mind they have over estimated my usage to ensure that I am in credit at the end of winter as well as summer. Previously my account has been in credit all year apart from the February bill which has dipped to £54 debit but cleared automatically by the next £96 payment. My anger over this is that they cannot explain it satisfactorily to me and cannot answer my questions. Pat |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 11:49
Eon DD rise. - teabelly
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This is standard practice from energy companies. They are fiddling thieves that deliberately raise DD payments to force you into massive credit. It doesn't matter if you point out to them that your usage divided by 12 is less than the figure they're quoting you. They won't budge. I am assuming they deliberately choose meter reading times and high price points to make sure there is the widest gap between what you've paid and what you will use. They can't fathom that people can use less and assume you always use more. Tell them you're switching to quarterly billing if they try and raise the monthly DD beyond £110 pm. I moved to Ebico. They charge the same no matter which payment method you use. Unfortunately the billing partner is the same hound that doubled my electricity payments even though I was using the original amount! I've started paying quarterly for leccy. If they pull the same stunt with gas then I'll move to quarterly billing with that too. Ebico have flat rates with no standing charges at all. I'd rather just put the money aside myself than leave this dodgy devils to choose how much I pay. |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 11:59
Eon DD rise. - Falkirk Bairn
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If you not like fixed monthly DD i.e. Lending your money to a Gas Board, Leccy Supplier Ask them for a Variable Amount Direct Debit (some power cos do not offer this) With VADD - they bill you quarterly and take the money 2/3 weeks later. Saves writing a cheque / forgetting to pay! |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 13:45
Eon DD rise. - VxFan
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>> This is standard practice from energy companies. They are fiddling thieves that deliberately raise DD payments to force you into massive credit. Which is why BG recently lost a customer (me) to N-Power. |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 13:51
Eon DD rise. - -
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Don't get me started on BG, i was having a good day so far. Their practices and customer lack of car dept need....see you've gorn and done it now, headache first, then...you wouldn't like me when i'm angry..;) |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 20:05
Eon DD rise. - Roger.
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I have one of those EON usage meters. (Free with our 2 year deal, via Age UK) To look at it is enough to boil one's blood. With the oven hotplate, clothes drier, dishwasher and washing machine on our cost of usage is at a rate of £900 per month! Yesterday, after our visitors had gone the washing machine and drier were on from 0430 until 2300, not always simultaneously but near enough. According to the meter we used nearly 29 KWh of electricity in that one day at a cost of just over £4.50. Month to date is nearly 63 quid. Gulp! Anyone know how closely the meter's estimate of costs (with correct costings per unit entered) is to reality? Last edited by: Roger on Sun 30 Oct 11 at 20:07
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 20:08
Eon DD rise. - Zero
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| Its guidance, but fairly accurate |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 20:13
Eon DD rise. - Focusless
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>> According to the meter we used nearly 29 KWh of electricity in that one day >> at a cost of just over £4.50. Looking at our Eon Energy Tracker, our leccy consumption averages about 14kWh per day. So it's not infeasible that you might use up 29kWh with all that additional usage. We've got one of those usage meters too, but haven't really looked at it recently. |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 20:21
Eon DD rise. - Roger.
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| Thanks, Zero & Focus. |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 21:27
Eon DD rise. - R.P.
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| How about checking your meter at the start of an "average" day and reading off the units at the end. Should give a very good idea of your consumption. We have one of those monitors, and very good it was at identifying when you'd forgotten to turn something off. Sadly it won't work here because of the design of the cabling going into the meter. |
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New Mon 31 Oct 11 04:58
Eon DD rise. - Pat
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We have one and it has been responsible for my reduction of usage over the last year. It certainly makes us remember to turn off lights, not leave things on standby and to do one full load of washing instead of two part loads. Pat |
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New Sun 30 Oct 11 22:37
Eon DD rise. - Fenlander
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>>>Don't get me started on BG.. Am I the only person here to use the excellent BG combined fuel online tariff where you input actual meter readings into your account page on their website each month and a few days later the direct debit is taken for the actual useage. |
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New Mon 31 Oct 11 07:04
Eon DD rise. - MD
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It's just them borrowing money at 0% I am having a to do now with EDF over another matter. I never have DD where it is avoidable. There's always the Ombudsman, a route which I am just about to take. |
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New Mon 31 Oct 11 09:00
Eon DD rise. - Falkirk Bairn
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Npower fined £2m for poor customer service www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/8859221/Npower-fined-2m-by-Ofgem.html#disqus_thread |
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New Mon 31 Oct 11 09:40
Eon DD rise. - madf
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We use EON on line Saver 5. Having just redone the entire exercise, I can't buy cheaper... (On line with the various websites for 1 hour).. I also use my own spreadsheet to check the numbers for the nearest ones...confirms above. |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 09:56
Eon DD rise. - Roger.
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Eek! According to our energy meter we used around £68 worth of leccie in October! That is horrendous. |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 10:03
Eon DD rise. - CGNorwich
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| Doesn't sound that outrageous. Have gas central heating/hob and was paying around £50 per month last year for electricity so allowing for a 20% rise would be expecting something around £60 per month this year |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 10:10
Eon DD rise. - Focusless
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>> According to our energy meter we used around £68 worth of leccie in October! Did you work that out (from meter readings and tariff) or is that from the energy tracker gizmo thingy? Because the latter needs to be programmed with the right unit prices ie. the actual cost might be lower. Or higher... |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 10:24
Eon DD rise. - Roger.
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We were paying about 70 € per month in Spain, but that included everything, as we had no gas. Heating there was by good quality inverter type air conditioning. Very effective it was and very cheap, too. We have a clothes drier - that's a big user of power and we cook a lot from scratch, including bread making in the oven. Now we have to factor in the cost of gas - hot water for shower and other normal use plus now, central heating. Thankfully the house has the full insulation package, including cavity wall insulation. This will be our first winter in the UK for 11 years, so it's a bit of a learning curve! Last edited by: Roger on Tue 1 Nov 11 at 10:26
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 10:32
Eon DD rise. - CGNorwich
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I reckon you should be budgeting at somewhere around £1300 to £1500 per annum for your total energy bill assuming you don't have a mansion! Energy saving tip invest in a clothes line! |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 10:58
Eon DD rise. - R.P.
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| That's one thing I learnt from my new partner, tumble driers are for emergency use only. Just put a line full of washing out, stunningly nice autumn day here today. We've put an indoor version in the garage for bad days. Saves a fortune. |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 11:26
Eon DD rise. - Dog
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We inherited a whirlpool tumble dryer when we moved here 6 months (already!) ago, It's a first time for us, wonder how we've managed without one before now, Wet towels in the morning - straight into the t/b and dry in no-time We'd rather have a bumble fryer than a dishy washer, actually. |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 11:43
Eon DD rise. - Dave
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A few years ago the government here made the leccy companies install meters that send the useage back to the supplier/bill issuer on a daily basis. These were put in every single house. It was done because of the problems with DD/credit/annual useage etc. People were getting stiffed and messed around with strange average calculations, DD's going up and down, large unexpected bills etc. especially for houses heated by electric where the difference between sumer and winter useage was huge. Of course, it also means no-one has to come and read the meter. |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 11:50
Eon DD rise. - Fenlander
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I'm with the Dog! We do a lot of our washing/drying during the latter part of the day where line drying just doesn't cut it. Many things like jeans, sweatshirts, socks, towels etc are far softer from the dryer. Our dryer costs about £12/mth which is a bargain for the convenience and improved laundry results. Ditto re the dishwasher opinion... Mrs F insists on one but I almost never use it. Takes too long, fills the kitchen with moisture and no-one ever bothers to empty it. |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 13:47
Eon DD rise. - teabelly
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>> We inherited a whirlpool tumble dryer when we moved here 6 months (already!) ago, >> >> It's a first time for us, wonder how we've managed without one before now, >> >> Wet towels in the morning - straight into the t/b and dry in no-time >> >> We'd rather have a bumble fryer than a dishy washer, actually. >> If you use a suitably long and fast spin towels and a lot of clothes are nearly dry when you take them out of the washer anyway. No need for a tumble dryer when you can air dry with an old fashioned airer near a radiator :) Conservatory is a drying house in the summer as it becomes really hot when the sun shines on it. Even faster than leaving it outside. |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 14:46
Eon DD rise. - Dog
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>>Conservatory is a drying house in the summer as it becomes really hot when the sun shines on it.<< Yes! we had a South facing conservatory in our last place teabelly - an ideal clothes dryer :) Our washer spins @ 1200 rpm, so it does come out fairly dry, as you say, Trouble is that Cornwall has quite a damp climate, when it's not raining, it's misty, and that can (and does) lead to the dreaded black mould so I'd rather spend a few coppers on the leccie for the bumble fryer than have damp washing hanging around the haus, Sun? ... well - this is The Moor m8 ;} |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 11:44
Eon DD rise. - -
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>> I reckon you should be budgeting at somewhere around £1300 to £1500 per annum for >> your total energy bill assuming you don't have a mansion! That's a fair assessment, ours will be around £1700 this year taking the rises (so far and more to come no doubt) into account. No tumble drier here, we have an old fashioned www.laundrymaid.co.uk/index.asp over the bath for winter and all year round smalls use, good investement that was. We do keep the house warm, which isn't ever going to be cheap as it's a bungalow with 13ft ceilings at the far living room end, so gas for heating/showering is our biggest bill apart from the extortionate council demand. Our electric use is reasonable though as we exclusively use energy efficient bulbs, and the initially expensive iduction cooking is the most efficient with alsmost no heat wasted. The thing that's made the most difference to the warmth of the house is the replacement of the poor previous wooden framed DG. Whilst we're talking heating costs... we do luckily have a chimney, it looks good enough but was only built to accomodate a gas fire...the bungalow was individually built some 20 years ago...so assuming with alterations to the bottom of the chimney, we have room at the rear to extend it if needed, would the fitting of a wood or multi fuel burner with back boiler integrated somehow into our central heating system work, we have suspended floors so there is under house access for extra plumbing etc.. Would it run alongside and subsidise as it were the combi boiler, or is this likely to cost so much that we'd unlikely reap the benefits. Bearing in mind we may want to move in about 12 years, or we may just decide to stay till we can no longer manage. Last edited by: gordonbennet on Tue 1 Nov 11 at 11:46
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 11:55
Eon DD rise. - Dog
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I'll have to get one of those old fashioned laundry maids gb, look good here in the cottage :) Couldn't you fit a liner to your chimney? We have a multi-fuel stove with an ally liner (not lit it yet! Temp. here at the mo is 12.2c on the out and 18.8 on the in, that's with no heating. |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 11:56
Eon DD rise. - Fenlander
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GB we've just moved away from our woodburner of 17yrs and miss it already. If there are just two of you and you're not trying to heat a 4-bed place evenly with teens using all rooms then the woodburner is a brilliant addition. Even without a back boiler the ability of a few logs to keep you warm for an evening saving the heating being on is well worthwhile. In a power cut you can keep toasty and even heat food on the top. We did have the advantage of only paying for 2 loads of wood around £40 in 17yrs.... the rest was free in our previous rural location. Last edited by: Fenlander on Tue 1 Nov 11 at 11:58
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 12:09
Eon DD rise. - -
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We'll certainly investigate the wood burner anyway even if it's free standing only, thanks chaps. We've never had the gas fire out of it's position, so i haven't clue what type of bricks lurk behind it, will need a man that can to advise on whether lining will suffice or bricks replacement or rebuild necessary...this is assuming that the chimney stack itself is up to the job. |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 12:35
Eon DD rise. - RichardW
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Installing a woodburner will not be cheap , GB... There's the stove (£300 up, depending on what you want), the liner - the gas one will be no good, the chimney itself might be OK, but modern efficient stoves run better with a liner, insulating the liner / chimney - fitting the stove. Not much change out of £2k I'd have thought. Then there's sourcing the wood - firewood is expensive, so you need to be able to pick it up if you can. Then cut, split, and store it - even a small stove used for 1/2 the year will get through a couple of m³ of wood a year. Wouldn't be without ours now though! |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 12:41
Eon DD rise. - -
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Yes we reckoned on £2k or more RW. I can get wood no rproblem, so it becomes more tempting all the time. If we do it i imagine it will be like the LPG conversion on my car, why on earth did i not do this years ago. |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 12:49
Eon DD rise. - Runfer D'Hills
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What you'll need then is a pick up truck GB. Y'know for fetching wood and such... :-) |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 13:02
Eon DD rise. - -
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Well now it's funny you should mention that Hump, apparently it's possible to get the Hilux with a 2.7 V6 petrol and 5 speed auto, lots of room under the chassis for 2 x 100 litre portabomb LPG tanks too..so i'm told, not as i've investigated such a vehicle you understand, not in bottle green with light beige leather anyway..;) Edit, just guessing here, but Sinoridban Thailand might be able to supply such a vehicle via an importer...apparently. Last edited by: gordonbennet on Tue 1 Nov 11 at 13:05
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 13:19
Eon DD rise. - Runfer D'Hills
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Oh you just happened to hear that in the passing then? Did anyone happen to mention how much such a thing might theoretically be by comparison to a UK sourced diesel one? Not that you'd have been listening all that intently I know...The coincidental colour combination does sound very nice if someone happened to choose to buy such a thing and indeed anyone who planned to run a woodburner couldn't really fail to make good use of such a practical vehicle I suppose. Or indeed an estate car as an alternative naturally. :-) Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Tue 1 Nov 11 at 13:20
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 13:53
Eon DD rise. - -
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Yes just happened to hear that one day, couldn't tell you where but it stuck in my mind as you might expect, i would imagine though and this would only be guessing that by the time LPG has been fitted the V6 Import would be about the same price and spec as a 3 litre Diesel Invincible Auto.. I seem to recall that being quite a decent vehicle, and with the much quieter engine which should if my experience is anything to go by be cheaper to run than the Diesel once LPG'd, simple non turbo V6 Toyota unit, i'd imagine. All this is just in my subconcious you understand, sort of a dream like thing as these overheard conversatons are. ..;)) On the other hand i'm becoming a tight old recluse and i'm very taken with this LPG lark given how well the old Benz runs on the stuff, can't think why i didn't do it years ago, in fact i'd now rather a LPG'd motor than a modern Diesel equal. Been toying with one of the few prime remaining examples of Volvo's 960 or even 940 estates, still kick ourselves over letting me sister have our old L reg Diesel version which soldiers on regardless and still not a spot of rust to be seen. There's room in both rear wings for a toroidal LPG tank so unaffecting the load area whilst giving good fuel capacity, the full size spare wheel sits in one of them anyway so plenty big enough. Last edited by: gordonbennet on Tue 1 Nov 11 at 13:54
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 23:17
Eon DD rise. - Ted
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Just as a slight aside, GB.....we was in the car park of Lakeland in Windermere parked next to a HI LUX on Saturday. Very nice reg. no. H11 LUX. Could have mentioned the one that parked round here, now and again, to the owner....H1 LUX ! Might have upset him, though. Ted |
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New Tue 1 Nov 11 23:32
Eon DD rise. - -
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Nice little motor them Ted, so i'm told. For reg numbers i would love to get AR51 COW for SWM if it ever comes up for sale at non footballers prices, i've seen it not far from here, she really wants it. |
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New Wed 2 Nov 11 05:58
Eon DD rise. - swiss tony
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| I would like Papa one five five Oscar Foxtrot Foxtrot -I wonder if it exists? |
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New Wed 2 Nov 11 09:15
Eon DD rise. - Dutchie
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We are with British Gas Pat.We have been with them for two years. Our direct debit was 65 a month.We where in credit about 130 during the summer month. The 130 credit was refunded in our bank account and a few weeks later we got a letter to increase our debit by ten pounds a month.Our direct debit was then seventy five pounds a month.Then another letter and now we pay 105 a month.Increase 40 a month.Energy cost according to British Gas.It is a dual account gas plus electric combined. |
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