I am researching for a trip to India we hope to make next year after my retirement.
One place I think I would like to go is Shimla via the 'Toy' train from Kalka, having travelled up from Delhi by overnight train. I have read a lot about it, seen it on telly and still feel I want to do it. Following the 'Disappointment' thread, has anyone done this and is it really worth it?
I appreciate that a lot of things are personal preferences, some reviews I have read are not so good, though there are people out there more suited to laying beside swimming pools than travelling a little rough!
Any thoughts or tips appreciated.
Last edited by: four wheels good... on Thu 27 Oct 11 at 14:20
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Hi there, my BIL is Indian so ill message him and see what he says.
If you have any other questions about India gimmie a shout before 11pm ( he lives in Oz so wont be up till 12am our time ).
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Thanks FoR.
We hope to organise ourselves rather than go 'Package' as we often find places we want to stay longer or not.
The Taj Mahal is probably a place we should go, but for some reason I don't feel I need to. Wife not too bothered. Big houses, cathedrals, temples etc don't rock my boat particularly, countryside and people being more interest to me. A visit to Kashmir may be a possibility too.
From what I can gather rail travel is good, fairly cheap and in many cases better than flying around the country - not to Kashmir yet I gather. Time is no problem, length of visa being the only restriction, and a reasonable budget will see us through for a while, hotels seem quite reasonable as we don't do ultra posh, or even posh.
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Former work colleague of mine has travelled a fair bit in India for work and pleasure, rail travel generally pretty good, provided you book first class, reduces the chances of ending up surrounded by goats and chickens.
I too would love to do the trip up to Shimla by rail, before it all slides down the hill.
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Spam,
I think it regularly slides down the hillside each monsoon season and is rebuilt.
Have suffered the goat and chicken travel in my youth and enjoyed it, but will treat ourselves to more up-market carriages now I'm a tad older.
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You will either love India finding it full of life and colour and be amazed at the resilience and ingenuity of the people and be intrigued by the multiplicity of faiths and beliefs.
Alternatively you will think how can these people live like this and why doesn't their government do something to alleviate the staggering poverty that lives cheek by jowl with fantastic wealth and you will rapidly tire of the stinks, the beggars, the petty thieving and bureaucracy that pervades the country.
I fell into the latter camp
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>> Alternatively you will think how can these people live like this and why doesn't their
>> government do something to alleviate the staggering poverty
We'd be in this camp too. Not sure I'd enjoy the visit because of it. And the other half is likely to get really ill because of the food etc. So we'll stick to nearer home.
We know of someone who has gone a fair bit. And one of them had their teeth sorted 'cheap' whilst they were there. As in significantly cheaper.
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My sister was telling me about the contrasts of wealth.
She said it really is posh hotel, out the gates and straight into abject poverty, she said its breathtaking.
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Received wisdom seems to be don't even clean your teeth with tap water, anywhere; avoid ice cubes and salad, washed or unwashed. Take as many cheap biros and/or pencils as you can get into your luggage. I have heard that kids can't start school without a pen or pencil
Last edited by: Meldrew on Thu 27 Oct 11 at 18:16
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four wheels good...
We did that very trip in 2009 and then spent 3 days in Shimla. I think it was an Indian Railways TV programme that gave us the idea. We took a real size train from Delhi and then transferred across the platforms at Kalka. For us it was an organised tour - the usual starter: Delhi, Agra (for the Taj) and Jaipur. Separately we actually got to see the backside of a tiger on a whole day jeep trip as well.
Shimla is nothing like India really, more like Scotland ! I thoroughly enjoyed it and no - it wasn't a disappointment. Done independently the train fares are cheap and I think spaces are left for tourists. Kalka - Shimla took about 3 hours with a 20 minute stop halfway. We were pulled by a diesel loco but saw a couple of steamers too. I recommend the Oberoi Hotel in Shimla too - really top notch. You get pestered at the station by people (women as well as men) wanting to carry your bags for a few rupees. Is is cheap everywhere though - I had Delhi Belly and called the hotel doctor, first forwarning the holiday insurance company - no need as his bill including various potions was less than 30 quid.
If you want to know any more I'll try and help.
I saw "Top Gear" magazine on sale at a kiosk there too.
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Iffy,
Gave it up years ago unless boiled for tea etc, keeping ice out of drinks can be a problem.
CGN,
That's how I read the reviews, either love it or hate it. At these early stages of planning I am prepared for the hating but hoping the loving wins. I have seen great poverty in Africa complete with the stinks, beggars etc. but without much of the life and colour except when staged for tourists.
Your first paragraph is what I hope prevails and the trip comes off. I have warned my wife about the many downsides we may encounter and she is still giving it some thought.
May settle for a week in Blackpool!!
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I avoided all potential sources of stomach upset bacteria and even took my own plastic straws so as to not touch the rims of glasses...I still got a bad dose. It may have been reheated rice in one buffet meal.
Last edited by: Dulwich Estate on Thu 27 Oct 11 at 18:26
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>> I avoided all potential sources of stomach upset bacteria and even took my own plastic
>> straws so as to not touch the rims of glasses...I still got a bad dose.
>> It may have been reheated rice in one buffet meal.
>>
A good friend of mine said that all their staff had a tot of whisky before each meal and avoided such problems.
I large part of my travels were in Libya and Saudi so I was not able to try it.
In addition to straws I would stock up with Dioralyte.
The other advice is when in doubt drink the real thing - Coke.
I understand that CC ensure that their product is safe wherever you are.
I know what it does to teeth but it is safer than tap waterand I have used it when cleaning my teeth and they are still mine ( not in a glass)
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>> have used it when cleaning my teeth and they are still mine ( not in
>> a glass)
Both of them.
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Apart from the advice given above, my advice would be if visiting India then give Mumbai a wide berth. The first thing that came into my mind when I landed at the airport there the last time I visited the country was, I wonder whether they built the airport in the middle of the slum, or whether the slum grew up around the airport.
On that visit I also ended up horribly sick despite avoiding water, non-peelable fruit and all the rest. Nothing worse than a serious stomach upset on a 12 hour flight...
I've been to India a few times, always on business, no way would I go there otherwise. On the other hand a good mate of mine loves the place and plans to retire there - so there's obviously some magic about the place which evades me.
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Similar to Bagpuss been a few times on business. Can't say it's a place I would rush back to although the people I was working with were great, friendly people.
I was warned things can get a bit lively, politically, very quickly. Government introduced a tax to get out of the country the last time I was there last November, about 15€ as I recall.
I couldn't eat in the canteen with my colleagues I wanted to try it but was advised not to. Subway food ordered in for the Westerners. Water was always served cold in sealed bottles (Tata own everything including the Himalayan water).
The jabs before going the first time were a delight.
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>>
>> The jabs before going the first time were a delight.
>>
That reminds me, another former work colleague was bitten by a rat in his hotel room; the subsequent anti-rabies injections were a barrel of laughs.
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Thanks all for your comments and advice.
Dulwich,
Have looked at the hotel website, looks good, perhaps a bit too posh for our needs, will give that some consideration if the trip comes off. There are many things to sort out before we can go, it's still a bit of a dream at the moment.
I'm no railway it buff, but it seems to be the easiest way to get around India and certainly up to Shimla, the roads being Indian with all that involves. Flying loses the experience of the journey in the hills and of course needs transport to and from the airports.
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Yes indeed! 12 inch needles and direct into the abdomen ISTR!
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I really really wish I could enjoy India. Been twice now and would never return.
Suppose its just me because I have friends who holiday there once a year and simply love the place...from a distance.
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Hmm..
Just caught Ice Road Truckers on the box last night. Driving into the mountains from Delhi via Shimla. The roads and driving standards of the locals up to Shimla were bad but beyond there it was just scary.
Driving is one thing I won't be doing should we go!
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After our couple of weeks in India (via Riviera Travel - a v.good deal IMO) SWMBO and I often joke that if we take a strong dislike to someone we'll heartily recommend they take a self-drive holiday in India !
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If you really,REALLY don't like them suggest this! indianmotorcycletours.com/
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>> If you really,REALLY don't like them suggest this! indianmotorcycletours.com/
On a motorbike? On those roads?
You'd be belly up within the first day..
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If you really don't like them that's a result! :<)
Last edited by: Meldrew on Sat 29 Oct 11 at 17:04
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I remember my first trip being driven from the airport to the hotel down a new 8 lane highway. A few randomly dropped cones being the central reservation, diversions being marked by huge boulders dropped in the middle of the carriageway with an arrow painted on it in white. Explains why they drive everywhere at night with the main beam on and do not dip for oncoming traffic.
I was picked up for my return flight at 1am from the hotel and taken down an unmade back road as a short-cut to the new road. Dodging cattle, pot holes and taking the off-ramp to get onto the highway to avoid the roundabout and save 100metres. The off-ramp antics certainly made a few 125's scatter.
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I was "fortunate" enough to sit near the front on a couple of 4 hour coach trips - one in the daylight and one drawing into night. Our driver was simply amazing at handling what was encountered and didn't get stressed at all.
We saw it all: heavily loaded oxen pulled carts travelling at say 5 mph in the slow lane of a "motorway". No lights at night of course. In fact maybe 25% of all vehicles with no lights - perhaps countered by trucks with enough illumination to rival Blackpool. Cars and bikes coming towards you in the overtaking lane of dual carriageways - from their own point of view they were correctly in the LH lane of what they presumably perceived was an ordinary road.
The worst was seeing vehicles pulling over a railway crossing when their way was blocked - there is no way an Indian Railways train is stopping for anything in its path on a level crossing as You Tube will sadly show.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNTuWMwPgi4
A fantastic experience.
Last edited by: Dulwich Estate on Sat 29 Oct 11 at 19:15
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I meant to say ....fantastic / sobering.... but ran out of edit time.
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Dulwich,
Is 3 days enough time to allow in Shimla? Did you take a jeep safari from there and if so would you recommend it?
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First message I got back on it.
'Theres an expensive one ( train ) called the palace on wheels, luxury 5* maybe from delhi. Goes to palaces and other tourist spots. then theres a very historic 'ooty' railway from mettupalyam to ooty. An old steam train that goes up through the hills in south india. That and the darjeeling one in north east india. Both historic, hertitage, built by the british. Other things to see...depends what time of year coz the weather.
do they have money? Do they wanna see or do? How old? in terms of how to prepare...get all the recommended jabs, take lotsa pills for diarrea, only drink sealed bottled water, never eat street food, get medical insurance and if its a woman, cover up as much skin as poss not only to attract less attention, but traditions, sun and dirt.'
Cut and pasted, I excuse my sisters, umm, patchy writing skills.
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For us, and I suspect most tourists, 3 days in Shimla was enough. It gave time to see where the Brits in government spent their summers, time for a couple of 4x4 tours including a visit to the building where the documents for partition (1948?) were signed, and time for a bit of shopping and watching "sherpa" delivery men.
I still haven't got over the sight of men carrying wardrobes on their backs, bags of cement or even a couple of large gas cylinders - many of the streets are too narrow / too steep for vehicles.
I'm not sure what you mean about a jeep safari in the mountains as I don't think there's a great deal of wildlife to see - you get to see the snow clad Himalayas though on the 4x4 tours.
I've got a wedge of photos including the entrance to the unborn baby sexing clinic and other sundry delights - if this is getting a bit too detailed for general viewing, i.e boring, I'd be happy for mods to pass on my email address and I can tell you more.
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...getting boring...
Not in the slightest, but it was good judgment to end the post when you did.
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For an insight into what the Indians can carry have a look at this
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV-iP1jSMlI
The BBC have been doing some reports, as the world population approaches 7 billion. Earlier this morning there was a segment on a 7 year old girl, living in a slum in India. The first picture showed a neatly dressed girl walking away from her hut with what looked like a satchel. "Great" I thought, she is off to school. Wrong! It was a small sack and she was off to to huge local rubbish dump to scavenge for bits of metal, She had a magnet on a stick to help her find bottle tops etc. Gets the equivalent of 50p for day's work. Didn't make me feel too relaxed as I tucked into coffee and nice marmalade on toast. India's population is increasing by 1 Million a month and the problems are immense. I donate to a couple of child related charities but I can't think I am doing much good!
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>> India's population is increasing by 1 Million a month and the problems are immense. I
>> donate to a couple of child related charities but I can't think I am doing
>> much good!
Your not. Sounds bad I know, but places like this need a high child mortality rate to survive.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 30 Oct 11 at 09:45
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Thanks again for the input,
FoR,
Time of trip possibly between October and April to miss the monsoon season I am told. Have also been told by management that Goa is a necessary stop because she wants to!
Have looked at the palace train but think a normal AC1 (?) ticket on an express will suffice. Looking at getting a rail pass thingy. More investigation to be done here.
Also looked at the Ooty hill station, to me it could be a possibility as well as Shimla or would they be too much alike to bother with both?
Money...saved long and hard for a good trip so not necessary to do the goat, chicken and duck class travel or sleeping on beaches. We don't need or want total luxury either. I think 3 / 4 weeks is the planned duration, looking at prices of fares and hotels etc. A travel book I looked at recommended overnight rail travel as it gets you around and saves a night in a hotel.
Age...both early 60s and as yet fairly lively.
Dulwich,
By jeep safari I assume it would be the 4x4 tours you refer to.
Personally 3 days anywhere is normally enough for me on holiday as I always want to see somewhere else and most places can be covered in that time. Not the wife's idea of a holiday though, so Goa for a week has to be on the list for her to chill out.
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I hope the trip comes off, it looks like a good adventure! You will be looking for something alonh these lines too, I think
www.travel-insurance-guide.co.uk/over-60-travel-insurance.asp
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Might be a bit late, but my mum who's in her mid 70s loves going to India and seems to go at least once a year for a few weeks. I mentioned this thread to her and suggested she might like to contribute - she had a look and commented that there's 'a lot of idle chat' :)
Anyway, she sent this later:
"We have just done the Shimla trip, and the Darjeeling train journey, (arriving just as a 6.9 earthquake struck, which added to the excitement) and both were excellent. Try to avoid Tundla station - the rat population is quite alarming. Of all the areas visited my favourite is Gujurat, superb for textiles and embroideries, and the wildest are Orissa and Chhattisgarh - bows and arrows stuff."
I've never been out there - when I was young we spent most half-terms at one B&B in Grasmere in the Lake District!
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Finally heard back from my BIL, dont know how helpful it is!
'So, the timing for the holiday sounds perfect to miss the summer and the monsoons. Not sure if they've considered Darjeeling. Lovely little hill station in the Himalaya's. There's a heritage train up the hill. A must travel for rail enthusiasts (I've been told). Goa is great over Christmas and NY's although very crowded. If they're visiting Goa, then Ooty is not too far from there. There's a lovely train journey from Mumbai to Goa as well. Kerela and Rajasthan are states that have a lot to offer. Kerela is also referred to as 'Gods own country', very scenic back water trips in a house boat - beware of mosquitoes though. Rajasthan is India's desert state, has some lovely palaces and Udaipur is one of my fav destinations (I also worked at the Lake Palace in Udaipur many years ago. A great hotel but very expensive).
Health insurance is a must. There is so much to do in India, it really depends on what one wants to focus on, is it history and culture or nature and wildlife?
I'm sure they have already done some research. There are lots of websites on India tourism as well that can be really helpful.
Let me know if they have any specific questions or concerns and I will try and answer.'
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Thanks again FoR,
Darjeeling is on the list to consider and research. The Goa region seems to be the only popular beach resorts we hear of. Surely there must be other places in all of India which are tourist friendly without being too crowded. Covalong, Kovalam, Puri will be on my list to check out, perhaps more difficult to get to. May need to stick with Goa as too much travelling around will make the holiday too exhausting!
I am more for nature etc, wife is more culture + beach, so a balance will have to be made. Kerela house boat is on the list for consideration as are the lakes in Kashmir, now less likely.
Mozzies are a pain, my wife seems to attract them more than I do making things a bit miserable at times. I have told her to take up smoking a pipe, reply not for public consumption. Fortunately modern repellants don't seem to smell as bad as they used to, whether they work as well is debatable. Insurance I agree will be a must, as will a visit to the docs for recommended jabs etc.
I was hoping to go after new year / early next spring but a couple of family and other events recently announced have reduced the chances of that, so late next autumn is looking more likely now.
There are so many places worth going to it is going to take a lot of research to get things sorted to decide what we can fit in. I hoped to have more time to check things out once I have retired but it seems I am going to be busier retired than working, at least to start with. The list of things to do, places to go to, grows by the week, mainly added to by management.
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There is only one mosquito deterrent that absolutely works and that is DEET. Sold under many brand names and strengths, For the more mosquito infested parts you need to be looking at 100% strength. In my experience nothing else works.
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Travel advice, India - Stuu
