www.apple.com/stevejobs/
The world has lost a true visionary.
Last edited by: car4play on Thu 6 Oct 11 at 00:54
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Never been much of a fan of Apple, but a big fan of Steve Jobs though. This is really sad news :(
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RIP Steve.
What of Apple though?
In many ways Apple WAS Steve - in his 10 year absence from the company it didn't move forward as it did under his leadership.
I have a feeling that Apple is at its peak, and the question is; How long can it stay there without him?
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From BBC news obituary:
"He managed to launch the machine, called the Apple 1, without having borrowed any money or given up a share of the business to anyone else."
As impressive as his product visionary skills IMO.
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Jobs had that rare combination of design and business genius.
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Lets have a bit of common sense in all this wailing.
He was a crap business man, he drove Apple into the ground more than once, more times than he saved it, and its current business success/model was designed by others in the company.
He was a visionary tho when it came to hardware design. Software look and feel was shamelessly ripped off from others.
He was a complete megalomaniac at work destroying the lives of friends and colleagues with whom he fell out.
As far as what he created, his company ripped off consumers with its barely legal methods of protectionism, closed architecture, sales control and predatory legal actions, most of which severely bent any anti trust legislation. His treatment of the consumers who paid for his goods was insulting.
The company may well be in future trouble, Jobs was Apple to many people.
Having said that I love my Iphone and covet a macbook air.
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Despite all that he had charisma, which is something you'll.......:)
Pat
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...he was a crap businessman...
I bet a lot of crap businessmen would like to have built one of the biggest companies in the world.
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>> ...he was a crap businessman...
>>
>> I bet a lot of crap businessmen would like to have built one of the
>> biggest companies in the world.
He didnt, he was just a figurehead.
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And as for the "the world has lost an amazing human being" frankly that makes me vomit.
he was deeply unpleasant.
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...He didnt, he was just a figurehead...
Ah, I see, but he wasn't just a figurehead when - on your account - he drove the company into the ground several times.
He did all those things, he wasn't just a figurehead in any of them.
Happily for him, he left the company on a high.
Although 'high' is something of an understatement.
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>> ...He didnt, he was just a figurehead...
>>
>> Ah, I see, but he wasn't just a figurehead when - on your account -
>> he drove the company into the ground several times.
When he did that, no he wasnt as it happens. Read the history of Apple. Not the one that Apple wants you to read either.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 6 Oct 11 at 08:11
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>> Despite all that he had charisma, which is something you'll.......:)
you think charisma is a Mitsubishi.
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No, I can tell charisma from bull****:)
pat
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>> No, I can tell charisma from bull****:)
whatever.
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Oh dear, it's going to be a bad day:)
Pat
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...Oh dear, it's going to be a bad day:)...
At least Mr Jobs won't have to suffer it, or anything else for that matter.
For all his professional success, I imagine his last few years must have been miserable.
An editor of mine took more than a year to die from a brain tumour.
We had our professional differences, but you wouldn't wish his suffering, and the length of that suffering, on anybody.
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>> Oh dear, it's going to be a bad day:)
>>
>> Pat
Not for me, I only have to put up with you on here.
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At the very least I can manage to laugh at myself:)
Pat
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I am going to say now what a lot of people will not or dare not.
ZERO, you are an arrogant ****
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>> I am going to say now what a lot of people will not or dare
>> not.
>>
>> ZERO, you are an arrogant ****
I see you know nothing about Steve Jobs, Apple, His legacy or technology then if that's the best you can do.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 6 Oct 11 at 08:41
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...I see you know nothing about Steve Jobs then if that's the best you can do...
Not even Steve Jobs knows as much about Steve Jobs as you do, Zero.
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>> ...I see you know nothing about Steve Jobs then if that's the best you can
>> do...
>>
>> Not even Steve Jobs knows as much about Steve Jobs as you do, Zero.
Oh forget it. You lot can have the thread to yourselves. Just don't let anyone on here say I started the personal insults rather than discuss the content.
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I see some of the anti-Jobs posts have been uprated.
Perhaps we have Bill Gates lurking on the forum.
Well listen mate, Vista was garbage and 7 isn't a lot better.
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Maybe they just didn't like him or apple ?
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Is it just me who is amazed a thread about someone who has just died at a very early age, from a horrible illness can descend into bitching about his career?
Shouldn't we all be a little more respectful?
Pat
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 10 Oct 11 at 00:13
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Not really pda, I think it's common on the internet, when someone dies, especially someone controversial to start looking more closely at them.
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Have a look at the Telegraph obituary as a little hint on the real Steve Jobs
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/technology-obituaries/8810037/Steve-Jobs-obituary.html
Maybe the reason for the support for Zero is the personal comments from those who have spent a lot of time complaining about personal comments in the past.
I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone but I can't think that history will be kind to Steve Jobs as an individual.
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The saddest part of the Steve Jobs story is that even at his deathbed, Jobs refused to meet his biological father, a Syrian Muslim, Abdulfattah Jandali.
tinyurl.com/5wqr86f (links to International Business Times)
9to5mac.com/2011/08/28/steve-jobs-biological-father-abdulfattah-john-jandali-gets-profiled-pictures/
"The Syrian immigrant says he is overcome with guilt for his treatment of Jobs and only learned recently that the child he gave up for adoption was the famous CEO."
Last edited by: Suppose on Thu 6 Oct 11 at 10:05
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Scarcely a measured piece. What is it where journalists feel the need to make exaggerated, nonsensical comments. Mac, e.g. as a religion? It's just a firm making a number of products. I doubt anyone would buy if they didn't operate well enough.
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>> Scarcely a measured piece. What is it where journalists feel the need to make exaggerated,
>> nonsensical comments. Mac, e.g. as a religion?
It almost seems that way though. Before seeing any obits or this thread we were joking about a family friend who has an alomost religious accord for Mac products.
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Interesting if true, knew how to market something and saw a market for gadgets, but odd and unpleaseant at times.
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Bill probably thinks he's immune to death as he sold his soul to Satan. Unfortunately he was using Word so due to an esoteric character coding bug he's actually sold it to Santa...
Microsoft stole so much of what it used. Networking stack from BSD. Look and feel from Xerox and Gem. DR Dos to make MS Dos.
I wonder if Woz would like to run the show now??
One person's visionary/ambitious/driven/single minded individual is another person's megalomaniac if they don't agree with that vision.
I'm sure Apple would have quite a long road map to follow as it can't have escaped them that he was going to snuff it or retire.
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9to5mac.com/2011/10/05/apple-announces-steve-jobs-has-passed-away/
"Bill Gates offers his condolences (via AllThingsD):
I’m truly saddened to learn of Steve Jobs’ death. Melinda and I extend our sincere condolences to his family and friends, and to everyone Steve has touched through his work.
Steve and I first met nearly 30 years ago, and have been colleagues, competitors and friends over the course of more than half our lives.
The world rarely sees someone who has had the profound impact Steve has had, the effects of which will be felt for many generations to come.
For those of us lucky enough to get to work with him, it’s been an insanely great honor. I will miss Steve immensely."
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>> "Bill Gates offers his condolences (via AllThingsD):
Apple have released a statement saying that his passing has shocked them to the core.
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""No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don't want to die to get there.
And yet, death is the destination we all share.
No one has ever escaped it, and that is how it should be, because death is very likely the single best invention of life. It's life's change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new".
Steve Jobs, Stanford Commencement Adress, 2005
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What Steve Jobs was great at doing is taking other design ideas and putting them into a unique product.
The Ipod was by no means the worlds first MP3 player, but it was the first product to make having one seem cool.
The Iphone was not the first smart phone, far from it but it was the first one which was cool to own, before that smartphones were strictly business machines.
The Ipad was not the first tablet, but again it was the product to make them popular, but god knows why.
The Mac was not first computer to use a mouse and a windows style operating system, but again Apple made the concept popular, before then they were only used on very expensive systems such Xerox systems.
The Imac was also one of the first computers to introduce USB ports and not come with a floppy drive as standard. Again USB was introduced well before the Imac, but it was the IMac which started to make it popular.
At the end of the day, despite many of Apple's failures without Steve Jobs there would be the worlds biggest technology company called Apple.
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My (American) friend said, in response to today's unfortunate news, 'proud to have brought up an Apple family'.
Somehow that worries me.
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...What does that mean?...
Probably not much more than as an American, he's proud of an American company which is doing so well.
If Apple were British, I expect we'd be proud of it.
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Apple to me are masters of selling gadgets for gadget fans. Take their iMac which sells for around £1200, technically no better than an £800 HP Touchscreen PC but with a bit of design and the all important badge!
Apple are as much a designer label as a technology company. Nobody would be so enthusiastic about their products if they were designed like business machines (like HP,Nokia,Fujitsu and so on)
No axe to grind with Apple though, and its just a shame a man died young from a nasty disease.
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"Take their iMac which sells for around £1200, "
cheapest sells for £936.40 on Amazon
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>> If Apple were British, I expect we'd be proud of it.
>>
Kind of - Apple Records, where around long before Apple inc - the Beatles's record company lost a claim over the name and the logo (IIRC) with Apple inc - who you could say basically copied it to use them for themselves
(I think this is correct, please don't shoot me down if its not)
Well Kind of
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
Last edited by: Redviper on Thu 6 Oct 11 at 12:59
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>> ...What does that mean?...
>>
>> Probably not much more than as an American, he's proud of an American company which
>> is doing so well.
>>
Not really what I first thought.
>> If Apple were British, I expect we'd be proud of it.
>>
>>
Doubt it.
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...Doubt it...
OK, I'll rephrase that.
I like to see British companies doing well.
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Me too. I just meant I could never see such a company starting, and getting to where apple is now, coming from Britain.
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RIP Steve Jobs.
My opinion is that Apple do well for 4 reasons:
1) The devices are well-designed
2) They have hit the zeitgeist of being cool (a la Rattle's post above)
3) The devices work well and are intuitive to use. Apple have always been good at the user interface
4) The computers suffer far less performance degradation than PCs
Sure enough their are downsides- the cost, protectionism and the ubiquity of some products (iPhone I'm looking at you).
I am an Apple fan (a few iPhones, Macbook Pro, old iMac, wife has an iPad) but I'm not religious about it. I like them for the reasons above.
Alex.
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>> My (American) friend said, in response to today's unfortunate news, 'proud to have brought up
>> an Apple family'.
>> Somehow that worries me.
>>
Me too! Rather creepy.
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Yeah, that's what I thought.
OK, he likes the products - I'm using one of his cast-offs! - but they are only machines, in the final analysis. I've been riding/driving Hondas on and off for 46 years but I don't worship at the shrine of Soichiro Honda.
I guess, looking around at what I've seen and heard on this subject today, some people just need something to believe in. Who was it said that if people don't believe in religion they'll believe in anything?
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Jobs in his own words here:
news.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html
It's a bit long, but includes one or two good tales, including the time Apple fired him, and why he wanted user-friendly typefaces in the first Mac.
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Flawed genius and egotist, worked with plenty of them over the years. Still he changed the computing world and the world is arguably a better place for him having lived. Nasty and premature death. I just ate a homegrown apple as a sign of respect :-)
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I think I have seen highest number of "thumbs up" in this thread!
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Would it be cynical of me to suggest that Apple rushed the announcement of the new iphone?
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...Would it be cynical of me to suggest that Apple rushed the announcement of the new iphone?...
Not sure how that helps them.
Arguably, the new iPhone launch has been largely buried by the avalanche of Jobs is dead publicity.
Assuming he was gravely ill, a more cynical approach would have been to wait until he died, and then wait another week for the publicity to die down.
So much goes into an Apple product launch, it's probably not easy to change the date in either direction at short notice.
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I think it would Bobby - various web based sources had predicted the launch to be around 5 October - it was a pretty solid as it was based on the cancellation of holidays in Apple stores at that time.
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>> ...Would it be cynical of me to suggest that Apple rushed the announcement of the
>> new iphone?...
>>
>> Not sure how that helps them.
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>> Arguably, the new iPhone launch has been largely buried by the avalanche of Jobs is
>> dead publicity.
Exactly. The new Iphone was a severe disappointment to the fanbois, everyone was expecting the iphone 5 and there was a collective groan of premature ejaculation from the failthfull when it never arrived. The shares dropped too.
Suddenly the king is dead, and the iphone 4s disappointment is forgotten. You bury one bad news with worse.,
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...You bury one bad news with worse...
As said by me and RP above, the launch is set well in advance.
So it must have been another marketing ploy by Jobs - he timed his death to bury the disappointment of the new iPhone.
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To be honest when I heard he'd croaked that's what went through my mind. He wasn't a friend or family so I'm not saddened by his death any more than any other foreign public figure - I won't be lighting any Candle App for him.
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yes but what you launch isn't set in advance. That can be changed at a moments notice, specially by Apple who don't tell you what they are launching before hand.
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...yes but what you launch isn't set in advance...
So they magic up some other product and bluff it?
Look, I liked old Jobs, so I'm sticking with the more believable theory that he was a marketing genius to the end.
What a guy.
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>> ...yes but what you launch isn't set in advance...
>>
>> So they magic up some other product and bluff it?
In effect, yes. All sorts of shenanigans goes on.
There is vapourware, Announce stuff that a: you havent got ready and b: might not even see the light of day. Thats the most common
Show an engineering mock up that's got no innards in it because they aint ready The white Iphone 4 was a case in point, it arrived 12 months late.
Apple could have been going to announce the iphone 5, samples have been built but its a lway away yet, so they figured they could just announce one of the two things that were appearing. And fill out the rest of the 90 minutes with guff. Which is what they do anyway.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 7 Oct 11 at 16:01
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Some real hits on products. Some real flops (Newton, Lisa).
Don't think that I would have wanted to work from him. I understand that some staff avoided getting in to the lift with him because they feared by the time the doors reopened they would be fired.
He also stopped all of Apple Incs, philanthropic donations. Denied paternity of his first child, even lying under oath to say that he was impotent to avoid paying maintenance when he was a millionaire and the mother was on benefits - nice man!
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Hitler is upset there is no Iphone 5
beware - as in all hitler clips - rude words.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxn6Ag0mmhs
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I find some of the almost deifying comments about Jobs over the past few days in various sections of the press absolutely nauseating.
He was not a nice guy. His demanding and narcisstic approach to management, and the way he crushed dissent was well documented over many years.
Apple still has no corporate philanthropy division. Jobs abolished it when he returned in 1997 and never reinstated it. Similarly, he has never been known to donate any significant sums to charity from his personal wealth.
He blocked all apps from the Apps store which allow direct charity donations, and refused to budge even when lobbied by senior figures from many of the world's charities.
I could go on.
That said, in the fields of marketing, forecasting and aesthetic design, he was peerless.
Nobody deserves to die at 56 years old, and my condolences to his family and close friends. But a "wonderful human being" and "what Jesus Christ is to Christians, Jobs is to tomorrow"? (yes, really). Nah.
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You're right - he's the subject of that nauseating recent phenomena whereby anyone famous who dies everyone is expected to grieve.For example some fat, ignorant, loud-mouthed, pointless celebrity died a few years ago and was lauded by Gordon Brown in the Commons as some saintly idol. Total drivel.
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Some reports of Jobs giving a large wedge to cancer charities.
Which are as easy to stand up as the reports he didn't give any away.
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"whereby anyone famous who dies everyone is expected to grieve"
Surely when someone famous dies it it customary to review their life and achievments. I don't recall anyone telling me I had to grieve for Steve Jobs nor indeed anybody else.
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At first it was Bob Hope, then Johnny Cash, then Steve Jobs....... am sure you can guesss the rest......
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I always have a theory that a lot of very rich business people are not nice people. It is something I have experienced myself. You get rich by shafting people, cheating on people and making life hell for competitors.
Personally I would rather enjoy a pint or two with my competitors and help each other out.
There are of course business men which do appear nice such as Julian Richer and Richard Branson but they are probably just geniuses at marketing their 'Mr Nice' image.
Jobs was a genius there is no doubt about.
Ironically as much as Microsoft is pretty much hated in the industry, Bill Gates himself has done an awful lot of good for those less well of than him.
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It is said Richard Branson is not a nice person. He tries to put on a persona that says he is though. Hence the jumpers he wears instead of say a suit.
Rattle you're right... to make a lot of money you usually find the person is not always nice. There are exceptions.
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>> It is said Richard Branson is not a nice person.
I've no reason to think he doesn't 'do good' as many rich people do (and should of course, like all of us). I also know two people who've worked at senior level in his companies and neither described him as 'nice'.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 8 Oct 11 at 16:22
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>> It is said Richard Branson is not a nice person.
People vary enormously of course, but to succeed at the business level on a large scale takes particular talents, in which human sympathy may not occupy a leading place (although perhaps it can, and does in some cases). Such people tend to be driven, uptight, obsessive about certain matters of detail, and often shifty or indifferent in personnel management which they delegate to individuals paid to do their dirty work for them.
But there's a difference between being like that - merely 'not very nice' - and being crooked, bullying, notably dishonourable, miserly and ruthless with staff and rude to one and all. Alas, some who succeed in business are like that. But not perhaps the real high-flyers.
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Branson is business brutal to his core, and some of his methods are unethical to put it mildly.
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>> Branson is business brutal to his core, and some of his methods are unethical to
>> put it mildly.
You are just being less tactful than I was, as usual!
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>> >> Branson is business brutal to his core, and some of his methods are unethical
>> to
>> >> put it mildly.
>>
>> You are just being less tactful than I was, as usual!
Gosh, I was displaying my maximum amount of tact possible!
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>> Branson is business brutal to his core,
>>
>> and some of his methods are unethical to put it mildly.
As I know well having been directly involved at length in legal investigations in the past.
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>> business brutal to his core,
Heh heh... good expression. But is 'unethical to put it mildly' definitely the same as 'crooked', or does Sir Richard more or less live up to his virginal smile? He's a sixties figure of course and was known back then as an operator firmly wedded to the main chance.
In my corporate and West End days I worked for some characters who were very distasteful and one or two raving nutters. The publishing world, not to mention the print and other media, contain many real sweethearts too.
But then I'm a wimp about that sort of thing. I just like being left alone and paid handsomely. Alas, I usually have to lump it though. I didn't know you were a wimp too Zeddo.
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Just found he rode a black BMW boxer twin. He's gone up a bit in my estimation.
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I admire Larry Ellison, that guy knows how to spend his money
"Ellison flies an SIAI-Marchetti S.211 fighter plane, used by the Italian Air Force. He owns the second-largest private yacht in the world: The 454-foot Rising Sun, a boat so big that it can’t be docked at most ports. Instead, it has to be tied up alongside marine rabble like oil tankers and container shops.
Ellison also tried to import a decommissioned Russian MiG-29, but the U.S. government stopped him. “It's considered a firearm, even though that's not my intention. It is disarmed, but theoretically you could rearm it and take out a couple of cities,” he said."
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Larry sold that yacht and it is no longer his (and was co-owned in the first place) :-) It's now probably not the second biggest anyway - Ellison probably bought a bigger one for starters. Rising Sun did have a basket ball court - probably a cinema now.
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Steve Jobs - RattleandSmoke
