The wife of Liberal Democrat MP and multi-millionaire businessman John Hemming has just been found guilty of stealing a kitten, after a three day trial.
This is likely to have cost the taxpayer tens (or hundreds?) of thousands of pounds. Does anybody else think the money could have been better spent?
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If someone pleads not guilty and elects for trial at Crown Court what are the CPS supposed to do, say "Oh all right then" and drop the case?
If that was so nothing short of a very serious offence would ever get prosecuted unless the miscreant put their hands up straight away.
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She his estranged wife; he's bunked off with another woman.
CPS are in a cleft stick. If they'd decided not to proceed there'd have been an almighty row about one law for the well connected. Not read the press reports but presumably three days were taken up in either evidence or legal submissions.
Might wonder if the judge could have managed proceedings more assertively but the Court of Appeal would be down like a ton of if he were thought to have closed off reasonable lines.
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>> This is likely to have cost the taxpayer tens (or hundreds?) of thousands of pounds.
>> Does anybody else think the money could have been better spent?
No, I dont. Imagine if it was your pet? Its a nasty vindictive hateful spiteful crime.,
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 1 Oct 11 at 11:00
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I've often wondered why some people steal and others don't. It doesn't always seem to bear any relation to the person's ability to pay for things.
I know a guy who is now a respected vicar who was a deadful thief at school with no conscience about it at all. I've never so much as scrumped an apple or nicked a company Biro. Not because of fear of retribution, simply because it never occured to me to be a desirable thing to do.
I have had stuff stolen from me though and ironically in some instances by people I've known. People who I would have gladly given some of the items had they simply asked in many cases.
Never understood it really. Odd behaviour and difficult to fathom except perhaps in the case of someone who is desperate or starving.
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Maybe thats why he is a vicar praying for forgiveniss.I remember my wife had some christmass savings at work she used to look after people with learning disabilitys.
Somebody at work stole her eighty pound out her file in her locker.Diana never got over that It wasn't the money but the thinking that the people she worked with couldn't be trusted.
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>> Maybe thats why he is a vicar praying for forgiveniss.
Reminds me of one of Bromp junior's jokes which goes as follows:
I prayed for weeks for a road bike but got nothing. Then I realised God didn't work that way so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 1 Oct 11 at 20:48
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Obviously it could have been better spent, but it's Mrs Hemming who's to blame - she was bang to rights, on video, and should have pled guilty. Extra fine for timewasting and stupidity would be in order. Don't think much of the husband either, but as MPs go he's probably above average.
Can't get too upset about the cat - I know they are doing what comes naturally knocking off the garden birds and carping in the garden, but having tried it (cat ownership, not carping in the garden) I just can't get why anyone would want one as a pet. Vile things, though I have stopped blasting them with the hosepipe since the supercilious-looking black one from 3 doors down caught a rat.
There are other opinions I'm sure ;-)
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The kitten has never been found.
Both women own other cats.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2043961/
"She now must wait to find out if she will receive a custodial sentence after the judge adjourned sentencing until October 28.
It does not look good. The case went to Crown Court, as magistrates decided earlier this year it was not suitable for summary trial because their sentencing powers are limited to six months.
Burglary carries a maximum sentence of 14 years in jail, but sentencing guidelines state the starting point in Mrs Hemming’s case will be nine months’ custody. That could be reduced to a conditional discharge or a community sentence. "
"After this ignominious court case, you might expect him to feel a little humbled. But it seems he is not yet reduced in domestic circumstance.
Despite Mrs Hemming’s robust declarations last year, her husband still returns to the marital home at weekends. "
So the cost to the taxpayer (how much does it cost per night in prison?) is going to mount up.
Last edited by: Suppose on Sat 1 Oct 11 at 11:48
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Both the MP's women, current & ex, are supreme examples of having the ugly stick not just waved at them, but beaten around their heads.
Whatever possessed him? (Or them 'cos he's no oil painting.)
Last edited by: Roger on Sat 1 Oct 11 at 12:05
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There's no way she will be locked up in the current climate.
At sentencing, there will be discussion as to where this falls in the guidelines.
The starting point for a low level first time burglary is a community penalty, the next level - as quoted by the Mail - is a short stretch.
Quote from the guidelines:
"Low Level First Time Burglary:
Panel (para 32)"(a) For a low level burglary committed by a first-time domestic burglar (and for some second-time domestic burglars), where there is no damage to property and no property (or only property of very low value) is stolen, the starting point should be a community sentence. . . . . Other types of cases at this level would include thefts (provided they are of items of low value) from attached garages or from vacant property."
Stealing a cat is emotive, but this cat had only a nominal monetary value.
Against her is the not guilty plea, the mean nature of the offence, and that the cat has not been recovered.
But as a woman, probably of previous good character, even if a jail sentence is imposed, it will be suspended.
www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/burglery_dwelling/
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>> But as a woman, probably of previous good character, even if a jail sentence is imposed, it will be suspended.
Why did the magistrates not deal with it then?
Good character? The Mail alleges that
"Earlier this year, things came to a head when Ms Cox came to ‘have it out’ with her love rival at the family home. Although the police were called, nothing more came of it — unlike last year, when an irate Mrs Hemming turned up at Ms Cox’s home.
As the latter claimed in her court evidence, Mrs Hemming set upon her wielding a pair of garden secateurs and later received a police caution. ‘She assaulted me and committed criminal damage to my garden, which some of the plants are still recovering from,’ Ms Cox claimed. "
Wielding a pair of secateurs!
The kitten has disappeared. Could it be a human next?
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>> Why did the magistrates not deal with it then?
She exercised her right to a trial by a jury of her peers. Long may that remain possible, even if it is used dubioiusly at times.
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...She exercised her right to a trial by a jury of her peers...
Could have done, but the Mail story suggests the magistrates declined jurisdiction.
Quoting: "...as magistrates decided earlier this year it was not suitable for summary trial because their sentencing powers are limited to six months."
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...Why did the magistrates not deal with it then?...
Practically, because it's too high-profile and they would have felt out of their depth.
They can't give that as a reason, but they can say 'our sentencing powers may not be sufficient' because, as I said earlier, it's arguable which category it falls into.
The police caution is not a previous conviction, but it will be put before the sentencing court, so will count against her to a small degree.
As will the fact it was the same victim.
Because it was a trial, the same judge must pass sentence - unless he dies in the meantime.
We don't know what caused the trial to take three days, but if the judge felt the way she conducted her defence was an unreasonable attempt at hook-wriggling, that could also count against her.
But the judge is still more or less bound by the guidelines.
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>> The police caution is not a previous conviction
legal web sites disagree:
"If you have been offered a Police Caution as an alternative to prosecution and you accepted then this would count as a criminal conviction."
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...legal web sites disagree...
So much for 'legal websites'.
According to direct.gov, which I think we can take as authoritative:
"A caution is not a criminal conviction, but it does go on your criminal record."
www.direct.gov.uk/en/CrimeJusticeAndTheLaw/Beingstoppedorarrestedbythepolice/DG_196450
For background, the idea of the caution is to officially warn the person, but not give them the stigma of a criminal record.
It also saves public money by not prosecuting minor offences, although increasingly cautions are also being used for more serious offences, leading to allegations of police going soft on criminals, or cost-cutting.
But that's another debate.
I suspect the quasi-legal websites do not understand the difference between a criminal conviction and the person's antecedent history, often called their 'criminal record'.
It follows the woman in this case has a criminal record, but no criminal convictions.
When the matter is opened in court, the prosecuting barrister will say: "This defendant has no previous convictions, but her antecedent history does disclose a caution for assault."
A simpler way to look at it is people can only be convicted of an offence by a court, not by any other means.
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Iffy's right...it's not a conviction per-se, for the purposes of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act it's spent as soon as it's given, but can be quoted in Court and has to be disclosed in certain circumstances and will come up on a convictions check for certain jobs for instance.
I would never accept a caution if I was innocent though. Thousands have though over the years.
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>> I suspect the quasi-legal websites do not understand the difference
Quasi-legal? No more quasi than you.
www.inbrief.co.uk/court-judgements/criminal-records.htm
www.rightsolicitor.co.uk/criminal-law-solicitors.html
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...no more quasi than you...
Never mind personal attacks on me, what part of this sentence from the direct gov site do you not understand?
"A caution is not a criminal conviction, but it does go on your criminal record."
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Good character?
Why should she be of good character after being treated like he treated her?
All power to Christine Hemming, if my old man had done that I'd steal more than his kitten, and it wouldn't work again if he ever got it back either.
Pat
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>> Can't get too upset about the cat - I know they are doing what comes
>> naturally knocking off the garden birds and carping in the garden,
Probably make a better and more alert guard dog than our Viszla though....a few evenings ago SWM gave it the sardines it gets once a week to accompany it's normal raw meat bones and veg diet, it scoffed nearly all and cleared off down the garden for a poke nose and no doubt to check on a buried bone before returning to finish off...SWM puts the garden light on after 5 minutes and one of the neigbours cats is finishing off the dogs dinner on the patio...thick as two planks dog is oblivious.
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variable are dogs. The house lab, Fifi, will bark in an overenthusiastic manner if there is people in the house and someone knocks on the door. If there is no-one at home - not a peep because - well its on its own and that's scary.
On the other hand I know one malinois that would draw your leg through the letterbox and play xylophone on your leg bone with its teeth, and that's just the friendly playing greeting.
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>> On the other hand I know one malinois that would draw your leg through the
>> letterbox and play xylophone on your leg bone with its teeth, and that's just the
>> friendly playing greeting.
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Tell me about it.
I work door to door, in seven years I've been bitten on the backside, calf, thigh, fingers and ankles (It's ALWAYS a Jack Russell on the ankle). In a similar period working as a dog handler with GSDs I was never bitten once, the only one on a section of ten handlers and dogs to escape a set of teeth marks or a trip to A&E.
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Sometimes one just thinks the antics of such people so self-centred and boring one just wants to bang all their heads together and push them into a duck pond.
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>> Sometimes one just thinks the antics of such people so self-centred and boring one just
>> wants to bang all their heads together and push them into a duck pond.
What harm have ducks ever done to you?
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i suppose she could have applied for legal aid if there is any money in the kitty
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well when puss comes to shove a scorned woman will go to any lengths.
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>> well when puss comes to shove a scorned woman will go to any lengths.
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Ho ho. There's a Mrs Slocombe joke somewhere here...
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Kitten theft results in three day trial - Robin O'Reliant
