Go on - have a larf on a Moonday!
tinyurl.com/69kyj4c
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Workers in flooded ruler factory saved by raft of measures...
:)
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Very good!
I was told a tip by a passenger yesterday on Sleazyjet.
He books all the flights separately, then has one of them with speedy boarder. He then gets on first and saves the adjacent seats for his wife and daughter!
I pointed out that pushing in like we do is much cheaper. Another tip is to not pay speedy boarder but to go up anyway when they call them, you are then asked to step aside, but at this point you are at the head of the non speedy boarder queue!
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 26 Sep 11 at 12:09
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Good grief!
You're all going to get on the plane, you know, and it won't take off any sooner if you get on it first!
:-P
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I alway stay seated and join the end of the queue a the gate . Not really fussed if can't sit next to my wife for two hours. Air travel brings out the worst in people for some reason
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Wouldn't use any of the cheapo's, that long running fly on the wall TV prog about Easy made sure i'd never ever give them a penny of my money.
This rugby scrum scenario has just reinforced my determination to never again fly, certainly not cattle class anyway.
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Sometimes flying is the only practical method of travelling. The secret however is to remain calm. As I say flying seems to bring out the worst in people. They stress at waiting half an hour to check in, they argue with the check in staff, they get irritated at security, they have to get on the plane first, they have to get off the plane last.
Its not Easyjet or Ryanair who are to blame for making the experience so bad, its the passengers.
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Another reason to use FlyBe - seat selection available at time of booking.
How will they manage with identifications when there's an accident involving one of these 'sit where you like' flights??
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>> How will they manage with identifications when there's an accident involving one of these 'sit
>> where you like' flights??
Unless you are found strapped in your seat, most people just end up as bits of the wreckage strewn around all over the ground.
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>> Unless you are found strapped in your seat, most people just end up as bits
>> of the wreckage strewn around all over the ground.
In case of mid air break up or controlled flight into terrain the outcome will be bits everywhere. Many accidents though take place on landing or take off. Add in fire and incapacitated people and plenty of bodies might still be in their seats.
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Many accidents though take place on landing or take off. Add in
>> fire and incapacitated people and plenty of bodies might still be in their seats.
Anyone fancy flying any more>:-)
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>> In case of mid air break up or controlled flight into terrain the outcome will
>> be bits everywhere. Many accidents though take place on landing or take off. Add in
>> fire and incapacitated people and plenty of bodies might still be in their seats.
And you're still worrying about whether you will manage to get the "right" seat on this flight?
Have you ever caught a train? Same applies.
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Not really worrying Mapmaker. I fly once in a blue moon and most trian accidents are survivable.
Just interrested in the practical stuff and areas where de-regualtion might suddenly seem less like a good idea.
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Most aviation accidents are survivable too - and indeed, survived, at least by someone. Good reason to put down your book, read that shiny card and listen to what the crew tell you.
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>> I alway stay seated and join the end of the queue a the gate .
>> Not really fussed if can't sit next to my wife for two hours.
Couldn't agree more.
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>> Air travel brings out the worst in people for some reason
>>
I must respectfully disagree, CGN. :-)
The mode of transport that brings out the absolute worst in people is something else, namely putting them behind the steering wheel of a car.
Last edited by: Londoner on Mon 26 Sep 11 at 13:44
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I never rush off a plane, first off, longest to wait for your luggage. Last off, the scum around the carousel has dispersed and your bag is easily accessed.
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>> I never rush off a plane, first off, longest to wait for your luggage.
Where possible I only travel with hand luggage. Can't quite manage a holiday this way but I can survive a 10 day business trip with just one cabin baggage approved case plus my laptop.
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>> I alway stay seated and join the end of the queue a the gate .
>> Not really fussed if can't sit next to my wife for two hours.
Couldn't agree more.
I disagree - but then I've not met CGN's wife.
}:---)
Getting off quickly doesn't bother me except for the odd occasion, usually at CDG, when I have a tight connection to make. (LCCs, of course, don't do connections.) I'd rather let the scrum proceed and get off in my own time.
I arrived at Brussels one January night to see a pushy little business type leap up from about row 2 before the plane had even stopped. He ignored the attendant's remonstrations, stood on tiptoe to fetch his coat and briefcase out of the locker and would probably have opened the main door if he'd known how. He got his wish and was first through the door - and first on to the bus to wait for the rest of us.
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This premature scuffling for position which may only be minimally advantageous or, as many have pointed out, actually disadvantageous, happens on coaches, cross-channel ferries, trains and so on as well as aircraft. Only a minority of individuals are mature enough to resist it. I am not among them, and like most others stand for ten or fifteen minutes, quite possibly without even having the sense to put my luggage down at least, knackering myself and feeding the pervasive atmosphere of directionless anxiety. We are, as I never tire of pointing out, a bunch of baboons really.
The bell rang once during one of my psychoanalytic sessions in the late sixties and my analyst, a lady, got up to answer the door of her flat. I rose from the couch and stood until she left the room. On her return I stood again until she had taken her seat before resuming my position, ashtray on stomach lying on my back with the doctor behind me out of my sight. She asked why I had stood and I answered that I had been brought up to stand when a lady stood, especially, I added, an older lady.
She dismissed this with something very like contempt. I felt threatened, she said, because some unknown person - perhaps the next patient - had interrupted my session, and I felt that to be a personal threat. I had stood, she said, in order to meet a threat on my feet. No doubt the next patient was interrogated about his reasons for turning up rudely early, as I was whenever I turned up early or late.
I would recommend psychoanalysis, the real thing not 'counselling', to anyone. Unfortunately though it is very expensive these days. And like all healing arts it depends on the chemistry between doctor and patient to a largish extent, since we are such baboons.
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She asked why
>> I had stood and I answered that I had been brought up to stand when
>> a lady stood, especially, I added, an older lady.
And some fell on stony ground.
I still do this, and open doors and seat a lady and let her pass through the door first, and help a lady struggling with something, can't help it, should those of that do still behave in this way?
Sod it getting too old to change now.
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Typical know-it-all Psychiatrist.
>> I would recommend psychoanalysis
I wouldn't. Bunch of charlatans. The lady who tired to fix my head was useless. (No jokes, please, I am being very serious and personal here). I had to muddle through with self-help and the help of friends, family and faith.
"The neurotic builds castles in the air. The psychotic lives in them. The psychiatrist charges the rent."
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>> Bunch of charlatans
>> "The psychiatrist charges the rent."
I did say the real thing Londoner. Nothing to do with 'fix your head' psychiatry, completely different.
I am sorry though that you had a bad experience of psychiatry. It's a difficult field of course and there's a lot of demand for it, often met with pill prescriptions and glib talk.
Analysis is Freud's 'talking cure'. It takes a long time and anything resembling a 'cure' is seldom apparent. Nevertheless from my own experience, better than many I think, I would recommend it to anyone. Anyone who had the money and thought it seemed interesting, that is. I would expect it to do them more good than harm.
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" the scum around the carousel'
scum or scrum - perhaps both!
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I have to say, landing on Sunday, it was 17 minutes from connection to the walkway to waiting to get a bus to the long stay car park, inlcudes passport control and getting a checked in bag off the carousel.
It would have been shorter but SWMBO had to go and pee.
Girls and loos always take an age.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 26 Sep 11 at 17:03
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>> " the scum around the carousel'
>>
>> scum or scrum - perhaps both!
>>
Well spotted, CGN, it was a typo, but I agree. :)
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>> " the scum around the carousel'
I'm six foot, sixteen stone and stand well back from the carousel, better to see my luggage. I find a shoulder charge and 'excuse me' gets me in and a careless swing of the case on the way out works fine. ;>)
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Trouble with that approach is, if the plane's anywhere near full, the rolly-case-and-laptop merchants will have filled the luggage bins to capacity and you get to sit with your bag under your feet the whole way.
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We're renting an apartment near the Cinque Terre in October for a week, and our daughter is flying over from London to stay with us for a few days.
National Express coach, Finchley Road to Stansted: 18.50 GBP return
Ryanair, STN to Genoa, taxes paid, carry-on bag only: 12.00 GBP return
Trenitalia, Genoa to Deiva Marina: 23 Euro return
The means of travel on all these modes of transport is the same: you get on, find a seat then get off at your destination: Ryanair will most probably be the most punctual of the three.
Ryanair, Easyjet and the other low-cost airlines have transformed air travel from a once-a-year treat to an everyday experience.
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>> Ryanair, STN to Genoa, taxes paid, carry-on bag only: 12.00 GBP return
Check that price again., you missed a few bits.
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Nearer £100 when you add the various charges. Still cheap but not the bargain it seems.
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Major thread drift - but last year I enjoyed visiting the Cinque Terre so much, I don't understand why they aren't better known by Brits. If you're staying in Deiva Marina you're some way away, though presumably within reach of the coastal train line that is the essential component in exploring the Cinque Terre area. Are you intending to walk the coastal path? (I do have some tips if you've not been before, by the way.)
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>> Major thread drift - but last year I enjoyed visiting the Cinque Terre so much,
>> I don't understand why they aren't better known by Brits.
Its always cropped up on my "where shall we go this year list" but for some reason its never happened.
I have promised to take Nicole to Torino, its a little far away, but we may be able to combine the two.
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IMHO the Cinque Terre deserve at least four to five days to do them justice, especially if you walk the coastal path that links all five villages, omitting which is to miss half the enjoyment. Planning where to stay (given that a car is more a hindrance than a help) is a challenge, though.
Last edited by: FocalPoint on Tue 27 Sep 11 at 15:03
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12 GBP was the total price including taxes. (It was an offer which is still available on other days, e.g. outward 26th Oct.). This is what I meant about cheap-fare airlines transforming the way we travel, and consequently the way we live. 40 years ago, you wouldn't have thought to trawl through various airlines' timetables and tariffs. You'd tell your travel agent where you wanted to go and/or what type of holiday you wanted. In 1975, the cost of my flying to Rome to see my parents while they were taking an extended 25th anniversary tour was a week's wages, not an hour's.
FocalPoint, we're staying at Deiva Marina because we are renting a car, and apartments are generally bigger and cheaper outside the Cinque Terre. We're near the station and less than 20 minutes by train from Monterosso. We plan to walk the coastal route in stages; walk from one village to the next each day, explore, eat and drink handsomely and take the train or ferry back to our apartment. Seven days of this should see us ready for a three-day "wellness package" (since when has "wellness" been a word?) at Montecatini Terme.
I'd be most happy to receive any suggestions or tips you have, especially if you have a plan B for when it rains.
Cheers,
SimonB
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"...apartments are generally bigger and cheaper outside the Cinque Terre." Absolutely - and getting into some of the Cinque Terre by car is well-nigh impossible anyway. An alternative is to stay in Levanto, as we did - a very pleasant town the next stop going north-west from Monterosso.
My suggestion is to buy a Cinque Terre Train Card, which is a season ticket for the train which also exempts you from charges to use the coastal path. The card is available for 1, 3 or 7 days and is available at stations and other outlets. Do be very careful when boarding a train that you have checked exactly where it is stopping; not all trains stop at all five stations.
It is best to walk from south to north, i.e. starting from Riomaggiore; as you are in fact more precisely going from south-east to north-west, the direction of the sunlight gives you better views that way. Also, the first section, between Riomaggiore and Manarola, is very easy walking, along what is in effect a pavement. As you continue the path gets much harder and Vernazza to Monterosso is quite challenging. Note that in May there was a huge landslide affecting the Blue Path (i.e. the main coastal path) between Manarola and Corniglia. A diversion is in place - hopefully properly signed.
Unfortunately October is the wettest month for the area, though the current forecast for the beginning of the month is sunny and dry - and still very warm. Showers, when they happen, tend to be brief. You need to take clothes for all weathers and be very careful if there is a really heavy downpour, which can wipe out a section of path (remember the whole area clings on to near-vertical cliffs).
I hope you enjoy your stay. The Cinque Terre are beyond lovely, beyond beautiful - absolutely breath-taking.
Last edited by: FocalPoint on Wed 28 Sep 11 at 11:21
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Would never catch me flying Ryanair. O'Leary is effectively playing ker-plunck with aviation safety. Go EasyJet any day - better crew, MUCH better aircraft (ie, the Airbus A320), better safety philosophy, and they actually operate to major airports - unlike Ryanair, whose idea of a holiday is Palma de Mallorca (bus from Glasgow).
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>>Would never catch me flying Ryanair. O'Leary is effectively playing ker-plunck with aviation safety.
Just a taster in the link I posted earlier.
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Along with Aeroflot, Ryanair have the cleanest aeroplanes I have been on. And they have never been late for me.
If it took two reporters six months to gather enough information for a one hour programme it suggests to me that there's not much wrong.
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O'Leary is effectively playing ker-plunck with aviation safety.
Could we have some evidence for this extraordinary claim?
.
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I know some of the people working there and I wouldn't trust them with a plastic spoon, let alone a 737. On top of that, the company docks their pay for training expenses (that's reeaallly putting safety first...).
No RAAS. No digital ATIS or digital clearance. It's the basic model 737-800.
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>> I know some of the people working there and I wouldn't trust them with a
>> plastic spoon,
IIRC there were a few incidents (Milan, Finland) where approaches were being continued when 'go around' and or diversion might have been more sensible. Management attributed these to pilots not following standard procedures, but that begs the question why?
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But do not Ryanair have one of the best safety records in the industry? As far as I know they have never had an accident involving passengers or crew and they have been going for over 20 years flying hundreds of aircraft every single day.
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>> But do not Ryanair have one of the best safety records in the industry?
They have the same excellent safety record as most other westen european carriers. The holes in the cheese may never line up. But if they do watch out for the results.
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>> The holes in the cheese may never line up. But if they do watch out for the results.
'But Master, this is not cheese, it is rancid yak's butter and has very few holes. If there are no holes then the holes cannot line up, surely?
'Master, enlighten us!'
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>> I know some of the people working there and I wouldn't trust them with a
>> plastic spoon, let alone a 737. On top of that, the company docks their pay
>> for training expenses (that's reeaallly putting safety first...).
>>
>> No RAAS. No digital ATIS or digital clearance. It's the basic model 737-800.
how does ATIS affect my flight ? automated terminal information service...thats pilots stuff
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>> how does ATIS affect my flight ? automated terminal information service...thats pilots stuff
Alfa can no doubt confirm this but ATIS is the automatic system that transmits the weather, runway in use, altimeter pressure and runway state (eg wet). Might also include other crtical stuff such as low visibiltiy procedures being in force or restrictions on the runway.
Usually a cg voice transmitting in a loop on a discrete frequency; the information is rebroadcast every minute or so. Historically it would have to be tuned on the radio, transcribed and cross checked.
I would guess digital atis picks up the information and automatically loads it into the aircraft's systems.
Reduces pilot workload and frees up time for more critical stuff.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 29 Sep 11 at 09:26
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A senior airline pilot of my acquaintance, now happily retired, told me that he would never fly Ryanair, due to their alleged corner cutting in maintenance.
Obviously he flew for a different airline, so he may have been biassed.
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Ignorance is bliss in a commercial aircraft. I have flown with the RAF, now that can be scary as you know what is going on. No flight deck door and headphones to hear the chatter.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 29 Sep 11 at 10:04
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Incredibly useful for situational awareness. As you go along, you can just tap in four letter identifiers into the computer and the mini-printer spits out the weather. With Ryanair one pilot has got to be out of the loop for quite some time picking up VOLMETS, which are long strings of weather information for Europe broadcast in a loop on the radio. Yuck.
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>>On top of that, the company docks their pay for training expenses (that's reeaallly
>>putting safety first...).
I don't understand why you think that? It's not as though the training is optional (unlike putting baggage in the hold). It's just another way of calculating pay.
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>> >>On top of that, the company docks their pay for training expenses (that's reeaallly
>> >>putting safety first...).
>>
>> I don't understand why you think that? It's not as though the training is optional
>> (unlike putting baggage in the hold). It's just another way of calculating pay.
>>
Because it sends the clear message to crews that the company considers training an inconvenience forced upon it by the authority.
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>> Because it sends the clear message to crews that the company considers training an inconvenience
>> forced upon it by the authority.
What rubbish. Solicitors often pay for their own law degree. What clear message does that send?
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>> >> Solicitors often pay for their own law degree. >>
I, or more correctly my parents, paid for my education and qualification as an architect (five years' full time education).
Although it didn't cost £9000 per year, it was at a considerable cost to them. They supported my sister seven years later, but on shorter courses.
Last edited by: neiltoo on Thu 29 Sep 11 at 13:15
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>> What rubbish. Solicitors often pay for their own law degree. What clear message does that
>> send?
Can kind of see both sides of this one. I think AF is talking about trainig for current employees rather than getting licences.
A type rating is expensive to acquire directly exportable to another employer; were there bonds for trainig costs in some airlines?
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I'm referring to the bi-annual aeroplane driving test...
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>> I'm referring to the bi-annual aeroplane driving test...
So when solicitors pay for their own CPD training, what does that say about their employers' attitude to the law?
With Ryanair, it's effectively a cut in pay paid compared to the headline rate, and says nothing whatsoever about anything other than the take-home pay of their staff.
Just like their £5 charge for credit cards makes no moral comment on credit cards, but is a way of increasing the ticket cost compared tot he headline rate.
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I think you're comparing apples with oranges. Solicitors rarely have the lives of 200 people riding on their ability to instinctively react.
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>>Solicitors rarely have the lives of 200 people riding on their ability to instinctively react.
But do pilots rock up at a conference and berate the organiser 'cos it doesn't count for CPD points?
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"Because it sends the clear message to crews that the company considers training an inconvenience forced upon it by the authority."
You could take the contrary view that if you are paying for training yourself you understand its worth and take it on board.
Not really seen anything to support your original claim that "O'Leary is effectively playing ker-plunck with aviation safety". That would imply that he is removing by stealth safety features from the airline.
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>>You could take the contrary view that if you are paying for training yourself you understand its worth and take it on board.<<
I'll try telling that to the next 15 lorry drivers I train who now have to have 7 hours per year compulory training:)
..the majority at their own cost.
Pat
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"the majority at their own cost."
Do they argue that it makes them less safe because they have to pay for their own training? I suspect not and I doubt that it is true for airline pilots either.
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>> 12 GBP was the total price including taxes. (It was an offer which is still
>> available on other days, e.g. outward 26th Oct.).
Thats £12 one way. Including the admin fee.
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The ever brilliant Fascinating Aida's view on the subject of cheap flights
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAg0lUYHHFc
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Ryanair - Clk Sec
