...SCRAPPED
Been far too busy to follow tram news today, still working now but just read the minutes and I am quite shocked.
In the meeting it was decided rather than refurb the 20 year rusting T68 trams they are going to have to be replaced. They have really bad rot apparently but there are a lot of issues as well which have contributed to this.
What a complete waste of money though, the tory government of the early 90's made Manchester buy cheap crap trams or not have any. Sheffield where allowed to buy better trams as they have a smaller network, guess what Sheffield's trams are fit for another 20 years.
Quite saddened by this news.
www.agma.gov.uk/cms_media/files/13_tfgmc_minutes_16_9_11.pdf
Should also add that some of these trams were only introduced in 1999 for the Eccles line, so it is quite pathetic that they need replacing already.
What is perhaps more sad is that my life become so sad that I read these things! Trams are less hassle than girls though.
Oh and it is a distraction from replacing the kitchen ceiling.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Sat 24 Sep 11 at 00:02
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What is perhaps more sad is that my life become so sad that I read these things! Trams are less hassle than girls though.
You can have more fun with girls.
Will you get the same stuff that run on the train tracks also?
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RATS. Make sure there is no ASBESTOS in that ceiling. Even artex prior to and including 1984 contained it.
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No artex. It did have polystyrene tiles which where put up in the 1950's, but these were taken down in 1992 as it was a social services requirement (my mum was a child minder).
The plaster that is up is lath and plaster, there is plenty of horse hairs in there etc. The tiles where put up in the 1950's to hide the mess of the original plaster. It is a 1906 build, and I think it was very rare for asbestos to be used in houses like this back then in the UK.
And it all just looks like plaster to me :).
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Perhaps Manchester needs to pointed at Blackpool. I think the tram I rode there during the illuminations a few years ago was a 1911 Bolton tram. Admittedly rebodied, but before the war.
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Very different system though, I think one of the main reasons for scrapping them is to keep the fleet identical. This way they will have 99 new trams, all identical but more importantly are also used in most European cities which have trams. So parts will be easy and cheap.
The 20 year old trams will cost £500,000 each to refurbish, where as a new tram is £2 million.
The only issue is we don't have the money to buy 32 extra trams to replace the old ones, we can only afford 12 outright I believe.
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What is the point of trams?
They became obsolete when the steering wheel was invented.
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1) They are quieter than buses
2) They can transport more people than buses
3) They can run off road, reducing traffic and also run much faster
4) They shift the pollution out of the cities and in the case of Metrolink the power is produced from mostly renewable sources.
5) Are easier to use
6) Are regulated so offer better value to travellers.
7) Are generally safer than buses
Downsides
1) Are very expensive
2) Requires expensive infrastructure
3) If one tram breaks down, so does the entire line until it is shifted
4) Can't reach as much areas as buses can
But for me, I much prefer travelling on trams, much quicker and much more relaxing.
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3) Buses can also run of road if there is a road used exclusively by them, and without the costly maintenance of a rail system.
4) I'm a bit suspicious about these renewable source claims.
5) Can't see how they're easier to use, you get on and off just the same.
6) You can regulate buses too.
7) Buses aren't known to be dangerous.
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>> 6) Are regulated so offer better value to travellers.
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>> Downsides
>>
>> 1) Are very expensive
>> 2) Requires expensive infrastructure
Hmmm +6 is cancelled out by -1 and -2 surely?
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The problem in the UK is buses are not regulated outside of London, this has caused many problems in places like Manchester with bus companies charging what they like. The government have refused to change this law, so building a tram system is one way round it. That way Transport for Greater Manchester control all the prices.
You can build guided bus ways, but research has shown that passengers don't like buses because of their negative image but will happily travel on a tram. Many car drivers won't be seen dead on a bus, but are happy to travel by tram or train.
The main reason I don't like buses is simply because they are far too slow.
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>> What is the point of trams?
>>
>> They became obsolete when the steering wheel was invented.
try telling that to the good folk of nottingham, the people who use their cars to get to work have to pay a car parking levy ( its to pay for phase two of their new tram system)
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>>20 year old... rusting
old-time Italian machinery rusting? well I never...
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Good. Can't stand trams.
I've got an idea. Why not take the tram and instead of metal wheels, stick some nice squidgy bits of rubber on them instead, you know, to make the ride a bit smoother? Then, since it's really inconvenient to draw power from an overhead cable, we could give them their own engines. Probably useful to be able to steer them round obstacles, too.
We could call is a "bus". Dunno why no-one else has thought of this.
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Manchester's 20 year old Italian trams to be scrap - Bigtee
