www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10632543
I read years back there is a U boat pen with a submarine still buried in Northern France anyone know where it is?
Yes they should overhaul these walls and put them back to wartime configuration and open as a museum for the world to see.
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Many years ago I was in a submarine which visited Lorient, we berthed at the WW2 submarine pens. An impressive setup with an industrial production line type system for repairing and replenishing submarines between patrols. We were not popular with the locals as many of the bombs dropped on the pens skipped off the roof and into the town, (I suspect a good few missed the pens too). On the roof of the pens there was a hut protecting a bomb crater from rain, the crater was six feet deep and went half way through the roof. I also as the many memorials to the French resistance people killed by the Germans and also those to the slave labourers buried in the walls.
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>> Many years ago I was in a submarine which visited Lorient, we berthed at the
>> WW2 submarine pens
ON are you related to the trotters by any chance?
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Nothing worth spending one cent on in my opinion. Let them crumble away.
“My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10632543
>>
>> I read years back there is a U boat pen with a submarine still buried
>> in Northern France anyone know where it is?
Nope. Not true I am afraid.
There were 6 U-Boat bases in France. Lorient, Brest, Saint Nazaire, La Rochelle, Bordeaux and Toulon. Most were heavily bombed, most survived more or less in tact, and in use today by the French Navy or as private sheltered moorings.
Toulon was the mostly heavily beaten about, and lost 9 boats in the pens. None were buried, or are there today.
There were two pens in Germany, Kiel and Hamburg. The remains of 4 boats (the advanced type XX1 boats) were buried when Kiel was blown up by the royal engineers in 1945. Bits of the boats have been recovered or scrapped, but most are now buried under a car park.
Barnes Wallis invented a bomb to break these massive German fortresses, the Tall Boy bomb designed to be used againt Sub Pens, V2 launch sites*, and underground stuff, because as ON pointed out, most bombs just skipped off into the surrounding towns.
I have visited the pens at la Rochelle, spooky places, and the engineering is immense. Yes of course they should be saved, let history forget and all that.
* Now here is a whole new subject matter, the V2 sites are fascinating.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 14 Sep 11 at 08:55
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Now here is a whole new subject matter, the V2 sites are fascinating.
Didn't Werner Von Braun ended up in the States? Working for Nassa I believe.
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Indeed he did, he was the father of the Apollo missions.
There is a largely hidden tale, post german defeat, of Americans and Russians killing each other (literally) to get the brains and the technology back home.
The Brits were involved as well, apparently we had a large amount of technology and documentation crated up and ready to ship home only to find half of it was stolen by the yanks and the other half substituted with scrap metal.
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Reda James Michener's Space for a bit more on the story, albeit fictionalised.
Also WEB Griffin's Men at War series, which describes the OSS's kidnapping of scientists from within Nazi germany to 'assist' in manhattan project, jet engine development, rocketry etc.
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Makes you wonder about the Russians some of their rocketts and technology was advanced.
Also their tanks gave the German Tiger tank a run for their money.The invention of man war.
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And remember Dutchie the AK47 was/is a copy of the German StG 44 Assault rifle....no mugs them commies.
As regards the preservation of military relics, only if the local communities want it thus and as long as it doesn't stop re-development.
Last edited by: R.P. on Wed 14 Sep 11 at 10:24
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Too true. I saw an interview with Mikhail Kalashnikov. He said he was in a reserved occupation as he made instruments (rev counters and such) for vehicles, but he volunteered for the Red Army, ending up commanding a tank.
The overly paranoid Soviets only allowed the lead tank to have a radio, so lowly tank commanders had to spend most of their time sat up the top to receive orders via lamp or flags. One day while doing so, some Wehrmacht bloke fired a burst at him from a Sturmgewehr and he was hit. He vividly recalled that his last thought before losing consciousness was; "Hell, that's clever. I'll bet I could make one of those.".
Made me laugh......
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>> Makes you wonder about the Russians some of their rocketts and technology was advanced.
>>
>> Also their tanks gave the German Tiger tank a run for their money.The invention of
>> man war.
The T34, the finest tank ever built, superbly capable and ideal for its terrain (massively unreliable tho). The Germans captured lots and tore them apart, but considered them crudely made compared to the highly technical Panzer.
But the fact was, because it was crudely made, the Russian could turn out tens of thousands of them.
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What I've seen of the Panzer a big tank.Wasn't the tank invented here in Britain?
Like the Lada crudely made, i had one for a year or so.Took one of the lads to Rugby .
Had a encounter with a Ford Sierra.Sierra lost.>:)
Sorry I'm going got my orders.)
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Tank was a WW1 invention - it was named "Tank" because the hulls were delivered to the Western Front described as "Water Tanks" (or in Army speak Tanks, Water) to maintain secrecy for as long as possible. The name stuck - well in the English speaking world anyway....strange the origin of words..
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This was an interesting Swedish tank which never caught on, despite the obvious advantages of having no turret = light and low profile! The gun was laid by rotating the tank and raising or lowering the suspension for elevation. NATO evaluated them but they were not adopted.
tinyurl.com/63c2osx
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Interesting, but sounds a backward step. A bit like the way ships of Nelson's era aimed their guns until someone thought of keeping the ship still and rotating a turret.
If a track comes off it can't turn so can't aim. A trackless tank can still rotate its turret.
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Swedes had 300 of them service for 40 years but I don't think they ever went to war in them! I take your point about a track coming off but a tank with a jammed turret isn't that useful either.
Last edited by: Meldrew on Wed 14 Sep 11 at 14:01
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A tank that is not moving is target practice.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 14 Sep 11 at 14:09
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>> A tank that is not moving is target practice.
>>
With modern weapon systems I don't think it makes much difference.
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>> >> A tank that is not moving is target practice.
>> >>
>>
>> With modern weapon systems I don't think it makes much difference.
And with american fingers on the button, doesn't matter what side you are on either.
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"The T34, the finest tank ever built, superbly capable and ideal for its terrain (massively unreliable tho)"
A classic oxymoron.
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>> Now here is a whole new subject matter, the V2 sites are fascinating.
>>
>>
>> Didn't Werner Von Braun ended up in the States? Working for Nassa I believe.
>>
Gather round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun,
A man whose allegiance
Is ruled by expedience.
Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown.
"Ha, Nazi Schmazi," says Wernher von Braun.
Don't say that he's hypocritical,
Say rather that he's apolitical.
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.
Some have harsh words for this man of renown,
But some think our attitude
Should be one of gratitude,
Like the widows and cripples in old London town
Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun.
You too may be a big hero,
Once you've learned to count backwards to zero.
"In German oder English I know how to count down,
Und I'm learning Chinese," says Wernher von Braun.
(C) Tom Lehrer
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The tallboy had a big brother, Grand Slam, a 10 ton monster. Mostly used against railway infrastructure but at least once against U-Boot structures.
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The T-34's most successful feature, nowadays commonplace on most AFV's, was sloping armour, which made it more difficult for AP rounds to penetrate the skin.
It's actually quite surprising that it took designers so long to cotton on to this, as the idea had its roots in the American Civil War, with the Confederate ironclad CSS "Virginia", better known as "Merrimack".
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There's a Tiger in the IWM - it looks as if it was a far more recent design...
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>> There's a Tiger in the IWM - it looks as if it was a far
>> more recent design...
>>
Thats the original design, much was copied after the war. There was German technology in our post war diesel submarines and there is still traces of it in nuclear submarine systems.
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Watching Submarine on C5 the other night - HMS Turbulent (which seems to be falling apart by the way)'s auto pilot was a modified Lancaster Bomber piece of kit - as the Officer said, it works, so no need to change it.
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The similarity between an Aircraft and a sub makes the technology transferable. Both manoeuvre and navigate in the same planes.
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>> Watching Submarine on C5 the other night - HMS Turbulent (which seems to be falling
>> apart by the way)
Turb's is an old boat on her last trip, There is a difference between "safe" and a few minor defects. I bet you have unknowingly flown on a plane with defects that was declared "safe".
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>> Watching Submarine on C5 the other night - HMS Turbulent (which seems to be falling
>> apart by the way)
Turb's is an old boat on her last trip, There is a difference between "safe" and a few minor defects. I bet you have unknowingly flown on a plane with defects that was declared "safe".
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>> Watching Submarine on C5 the other night - HMS Turbulent (which seems to be falling
>> apart by the way)
Turb's is an old boat on her last trip, There is a difference between "safe" and a few minor defects. I bet you have unknowingly flown on a plane with defects that was declared "safe".
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I recently used a flight to Turkey which was delayed for an hour for "technical reasons". On arrival at Istanbul it taxied past the terminal and parked at a hanger with a "Turkish airlines engineering" sign on it. We were then bussed to the terminal. Always been suspicious of that flight. Submarines I understand. :)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 14 Sep 11 at 19:54
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ON.
At what depth is safe to leave a submarine if you have to swim to the surface & in reality can all get out?
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Have you seen the message on the sticky bit Bigtee ?
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I have done a free ascent from 100' in a training tank. It has been done under controlled circumstances from about 600'. These days a small rescue submarine would attach to a sunken submarine's escape hatch and ferry people to the surface, (if the sunken submarine was upright). If You are off the continental shelf there would be nothing to rescue, as with USS Thresher. Personally I believe you only get it wrong once in a submarine,
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Watched a good program on the Discovery channel other month not sure how old the program was, they found a German U boat and raised it to find some "new" type torpedo still in the tubes ready to fire before it was sunk, they removed these torpedos and said they were new for the time as must have been later in the war, they came out like new!!
Scary stuff that.
My grandad was fired at crossing the Atlantic luckily they missed had they had hit they was carring iron ore it would have sank faster that it moved. & he couldn't swim!!
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Is this the one that was raised in Denmark and now is on static display in Bikinhead docks ? I need to go back and see that one day.
www.u-boatstory.co.uk/news.aspx
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Yes i beleive it is.
And thanks for the e mail it's on the office wall for all to see, we can't do that it'a a real shame.
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>> If You are off the continental shelf there would be nothing to
>> rescue, as with USS Thresher. Personally I believe you only get it wrong once in
>> a submarine,
>>
The mention of USS Thresher prompted me to do a little Google. I had forgotten about this. Fascinating reading.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)
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This is the one that provided a lot of post WW2 technology.
tinyurl.com/695tso6
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The "fin" is reminiscent of cold-war Russian boats.
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>> The "fin" is reminiscent of cold-war Russian boats.
>>
The Russian Foxtrot and Zulu class diesel submarines were very similar, almost a direct copy.
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Makes you wonder how the Germans managed to access such "exotic" tech....and this was not the only field where they managed it....
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Thats just a regular run of the mill Unterseeboot,
This, the type XXI,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U3008.jpg
was a huge leap forward and became the model for modern submarine design. Fortunately it came too late in the war to make a difference.
edit beaten to it by the matelot with dolphins
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 14 Sep 11 at 20:23
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Took HMS Hood out before it went tho, and at a distance of over 10 miles.
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My great uncle was on the Rodney and saw Hood go down - had a big effect on him after the war...apparently saw a lot of stuff, but that was defining moment.
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>> My great uncle was on the Rodney and saw Hood go down - had a
>> big effect on him after the war
Rodney? Don't you mean Prince of Wales?
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She looked ahead of her time.That is a long distance 10 miles.
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Currently reading a book - Scrimogeour's Small Scribblings...the diary of a Midshipman that served on Invincible (one of the most powerful ships of her time) - the diairies end before his ship was lost a Jutland - what happened in that battle makes naval encounters in WW2 and since pale into insignificance. Must have been terrifying. Invincible's loss was due to the arrogance of old men who thought they knew better.
Remind's me a little of a touching scene in Submarine the other night when the boat surfaced at the point where her namesake was sunk in WW2 just off the Libyan coastline and a bried ceremony was conducted.. things don't change do they ?
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>> She looked ahead of her time.That is a long distance 10 miles.
She was modern, radar guided guns, hydrophone sensors, and in the end she was disabled by a WW1 design aircraft.
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The way they fought gave the pilots and crew far more credit than the War Office and Admiralty in sending out the troops in obsolete kit. The Snatch Land Rovers of their day.
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BBC site says: " The internet boasts Atlantic Wall fan sites in Germany and the Netherlands - and strong interest in the UK - but nothing in France."
To be fair, the French have the V2 station near Calais at La Coupole.
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Hitlers Atlantic Wall...................... - MD
